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Relief and despair at Hearts CVA success

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There is a degree of relief (in some quarters) mixed with surprise that Hearts creditors have agreed to a CVA, allowing the club to exit administration.  Although administration seems to be a natural state for many in Scottish football, remarkably few have subsequently gone to the wall in the last 100 years.

Third Lanark perished in 1967, an exception during many decades of solvent behaviour.  Airdrieoneans (not to be confused with the current club by that name, which is the renamed and relocated Clydebank FC) were liquidated in 2002, with the chastising words of creditor Sir David Murray ringing in their ears.  Oh how well irony played its hand.

Murray’s own club, Rangers (not to be confused with the current club by that name), were next to be liquidation after creditor, HMRC, stuck by their published rules and rejected a proposed CVA.

Apart from this, a remarkable series of campaigns, such as ‘Well worth saving’ and ‘Save the Jags’ has seen supporters step forward and find the money to save their club from that ominous fate.

There appears to couple of rules if you want to escape liquidation.  Try to ensure 75% of your creditor value is owed to shareholder-creditors or the bank.  Many clubs survive on directors’ loan accounts, which are ultimately forgiven in administration.  Banks too have been reluctant to kill the local totem, with good commercial reason.

The major thing to avoid appears to be breaking tax law. HMRC are prevented by its own terms of business from forgiving tax debt which has been run up through illegal tax evasion.  This was the case at (original) Rangers, who conceded some of their tax dealings were not legal during 2012’s Lower Tier Tribunal.  The balance of cases are disputed and currently subject to an Upper Tier Tribunal.

Hearts success makes for an interesting SPFL Championship race this season.  With three games to go Dundee hold a two point advantage over Hamilton.  The winner will go up, second place will face a play-off, but neither club will fancy fighting Hearts for promotion next season.  I can imagine the despair elsewhere to the news that Hearts will be a Championship club next season.  Poor Ally will need to get his game together.

Remember, John Hughes will be on CQN tomorrow morning.  Tune in with your questions for him.

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  1. bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts on

    Strictly, Celtic’s first ever game. The opponents were really a Rangers XI composed from their reserve side (who called themselves “The Swifts”), likely as they didn’t want to lose to a new outfit (just in case). The game was advertised as being against “a side of Rangers”.

     

     

    from celtic wiki

     

     

    HAIL HAI

  2. LiviBhoy - God bless wee Oscar on

    Response from previous article

     

     

    FourGreenFields

     

     

    I think I addressed that previously and then BRTH did a much better job at it. Until the big tax case is decided then the stripping of titles can be adjudged by the SFA. If they fail to do so then Celtic have to get involved. If they do not then fans will walk away. Many thousands will walk.

     

    The SFA let them transfer the old club titles and history over and I believe that within Scotland it is legal to do so unless anyone can prove otherwise. We have to live with that unfortunately.

     

    I am not an expert. Just reading what is on here and other sites I read.

     

     

    LB

  3. bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts

     

    12:31 on

     

    16 April, 2014

     

     

    well done on the ball to-day.

     

     

    how are you, still planning for the 10th

     

     

    HH

  4. LiviBhoy - God bless wee Oscar on

    bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts

     

     

    In much the same way the Celtic side were made up of guest players and not players signed by the club.

     

     

    LB

  5. FourGreenFields on

    livibhoy – god bless wee oscar

     

     

    Thanks for the reply mate , I get most of my info from CQN too but can’t get my head round the NEW club being able to claim the NEW clubs history .

  6. The Comfortable Collective on

    brogan rogan trevino and hogan supports oscar knox, mackenzie furniss and anyone else who fights neuroblastoma

     

     

    In reply to your question – “So — forgetting the idiocy of the SFA — should someone not check with Neil Doncaster whether or not the current Ibrox club have ever won one of their championships before or have ever held a share in SPFL ltd in the past?”

     

     

    The official SPFL website lists the team called rangers currently playing in the third tier of the league as having won 54 top flight league titles, stretching back to the 1890′s and including nine in a row during the 1990′s.

  7. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS .........Praying for our WEE HERO! on

    GREENPINATA

     

     

    Frankly,I find it a difficult position to be in. It’s equivocation,as I said to one of our team on here.

     

     

    It doesn’t alter the fact that he was a total idiot. Nor that he was put in the frame because of who he was and not what he did.

     

     

    I don’t like double standards,mate. But I don’t like them being used against us either.

  8. Throughout the cheating years, they waved teners on our faces and told us “There’s Not A Team Like The GLASGOW Rangers.”

     

     

    We should sing that line next time we play them, God willing, that will never happen.

     

     

    The point is, Celtic should not be complicit in perpetuating the lie.

     

     

    They are a new Club, wrongly admitted to the Scottish League at the expense of others.

     

     

    As per Montrose in December 2012 and Dundee United in February 2013, programme notes should refer to them as a NEW Club.

     

     

    I’m sure the Celtic website referred to the 3-0 game as the last ever Old Firm match.

     

     

    So it was.

     

     

    The Old Firm tag is deid – no more guilt by association.

  9. BRTH, Brilliant post……………………..you have made me re-think.

     

     

    I have 2 season books I am considering binning.

     

     

    I drive up from Lytham of a Saturday, pick up my Da and enjoy the match with him before dropping him off and driving doon the road.

     

     

    I’m getting scunnered at the games being shifted from a week-end to midweek at the drop of a hat, I think it’s 4 this season, that’s 4×2 games I (we) miss out on.

     

    .

     

    I’m scunnered at the way the polis are treating our kids, with the apparent collusion of my club.

     

     

    I’m scunnered games shifted to suit the telly, NEW YEARS DAY FFS!!!!! Surely we lose money on this, no way will TV cash make up the shortfall on fans going to the pub instead of the turnstyle?

     

     

    I’m scunnered that everything appears to be done with absolutely NO consideration given, by anyone, to the guys who actually fund the whole shibang…..us, the support.

     

     

    Your comment on RES 12 (I gave my shares to this) has me a big bit excited, is there an output imminent?

     

     

    As for any form of deid club, I couldn’t care a jot if we never have them darken our door again. Like the rest of the support, I just want to be listened to, you know, like a paying customer.

     

     

    I feell better for that, bet there’s a new article posted.

     

     

    Aye, was right

  10. The Battered Bunnet on

    Relief all round in Scotland as it dawns on folk that there will be no need to accommodate Schrodinger’s Kitten FC.

  11. Time the GB were brought back into the scheme of things……at least they got their feelings across to the board about thoughts on Diedco…………with them out of the way the board can try the softly softly approach to win over the fans resentment of thems.

  12. Steinreignedsupreme on

    FourGreenFields 12:27 on 16 April, 2014

     

    livibhoy – god bless wee oscar

     

    steinreignedsupreme

     

     

    “It’s not what the NEW club call themselves that matters , it’s their claim on the OLD clubs history that needs addressed.”

     

     

    Sevco’s claim on Rangers Football Club PLC’s history has been addressed in UK law (prior to the events of 2012). The Insolvency Act 1986 was passed to prevent the history of a liquidated entity being transferred to a new entity.

  13. Repost from last thread

     

     

    owen

     

     

     

     

    12:38 on

     

     

    16 April, 2014

     

     

     

     

    When Peter Lawwell states that Celtic have a business plan completely non dependent on any other club in Scotland he is called a liar and accused of secretly conspiring to fast track the Norwegian Blues into the SPFL. When Peter Lawwell makes a joke about the Zombies calling themselves anything they want but it doesn’t make them the same club and he is accused of indulging in cheap shots that are not befitting of a Club of our stature. The club issue a press release about an under 17′s match and its time light the pitchforks and pick up the torches, :-),” to the carpark” is the battlecry.

     

     

    Celtic are perpetuating the deidco myth, aye right get a grip people. Celtic have made a decision over an u17′s match, does anyone honestly believe that if Celtic had billed this as a match between our u17′s and a new team that we would have been supported by any of the media in Scotland? No Celtic would have been slaughtered for indulging in petty and spiteful insulting behaviour towards a team of kids.

     

     

    If a new,new,newco ever face Celtic I do not give a monkeys what they are called in the programme because they will not be Rangers as they died in 2012.

  14. Steinreignedsupreme

     

    12:49 on

     

    16 April, 2014

     

     

    So in effect, they have no legal right to oldco’s history !!!!

     

     

    That being the case, how can the sfa, spl be forced to acknowledge this ?

     

     

    This issue is tearing the support in half, it needs sorted pdq, or the only ones who will suffer are the club.

     

     

    HH

  15. bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts on

    butsybhoy

     

    12:34 on

     

    16 April, 2014

     

    bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts

     

    12:31 on

     

    16 April, 2014

     

     

    well done on the ball to-day.

     

     

    how are you, still planning for the 10th

     

     

    HH

     

     

    It’s looking like a goer ,will mail you when details are confirmed.

     

     

    you would think i had better things to do than chase podiums :-)

     

     

     

    coatbridge paper bhoy…….. cheers

     

     

    LiviBhoy – God bless wee Oscar

     

    12:36 on

     

    16 April, 2014

     

    bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts

     

     

    In much the same way the Celtic side were made up of guest players and not players signed by the club.

     

     

    LB

     

     

    true was really pointing to .. The game was advertised as being against “a side of

     

     

    Rangers”

     

     

     

    HAIL .HAIL

  16. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS .........Praying for our WEE HERO! on

    STEINREIGNEDSUPREME

     

     

    While I agree with you,why is the myth being perpetuated?

     

     

    A double-glazing company here in Swindon closed down a few weeks ago,would they get away with the same charade?

     

     

    Doubt it. It’s a disgrace,tbh,that the last two seasons have happened at all.

     

     

    They should have been told to GTF and repent.

     

     

    Though,with hindsight,I prefer the multiple liquidation scenario which is playing out…..

  17. Gretna should be added to the list of the recently deceased.

     

     

    I have mixed feelings about Hearts. Wouldn’t have been unhappy to see them dead and buried – and it would have been interesting to see how the authorities handled the situation given the recent precedent.

     

     

    But another fan owned club is a good model to see promoted. And anything that makes next year’s second tier more interesting is a good thing I suppose/

  18. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS .........Praying for our WEE HERO! on

    BOGNORBHOY

     

     

    Yer not invited,bud. A decision was made that podium-hunting bassas urnae welcome.

     

     

    I’m undercover,myself….

  19. My season ticket will be renewed same as it is every season, I don’t care about the SFA SPFL, or anyone, any other cub, or any other manager, the GB, the living wage, supporters on the board, smoke bombs, flares, kettling, all part of the game and nothing to do with me, I just want to watch my team winning. And tell the lurking Huns in here to GIRUYs, so looking forward to next season, god bless PL and the board of Celtic Football Club, Hail Hail,.

  20. The Battered Bunnet on

    themightyquinn

     

     

    It’ll be published 3 weeks after it has been notified to the parties.

     

     

    It’ll be notified to the parties when the decision is written up.

     

     

    It’ll be written up when they’ve figured it out.

     

     

    Expect it no time soon.

  21. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS .........Praying for our WEE HERO! on

    TONY DONNELLY

     

     

    I think everyone who can,should renew too.

     

     

    Not blind loyalty or anything. Just that we are more important than the huns.

     

     

    Being a Celtic supporter is what defines us,not a hatred of Rangers.

     

     

    But I do have a soft spot for justice being seen to be done.

     

     

    BTW,I suggested to MASTY that you and my Dad may have a mutual acquaintance-of old-from The Gorbals. Did he ask you?

  22. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS .........Praying for our WEE HERO! on

    THE BATTERED BUNNET

     

     

    Sod,you had me there….

  23. Steinreignedsupreme on

    THE EXILED TIM 12:55 on 16 April, 2014

     

     

    “So in effect, they have no legal right to oldco’s history !!!!

     

     

    “That being the case, how can the sfa, spl be forced to acknowledge this ?”

     

     

    No. They don’t have any right to it, and to be fair when Charles Green made his ridiculous claim that he ‘brought the history’ it was mocked by most people outside the Flat Earth Society.

     

     

    The issue doesn’t need further clarification though. The 1986 Act is the only proof required. That is the law, and opinion is irrelevant.

  24. !!Bada Bing!! on

    All the fans are looking for is the truth,so tell the truth CFC.Stop hidind behind Regan,Doncaster and Ogilvie.Stand up for the fans,stand up for the Club,stand up for the truth.End this lie once and for all.

  25. bognorbhoy oscar in my thoughts on

    BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS ………Praying for our WEE HERO!

     

    12:58 on

     

    16 April, 2014

     

    BOGNORBHOY

     

     

    Yer not invited,bud. A decision was made that podium-hunting bassas urnae welcome.

     

     

    I’m undercover,myself…

     

     

     

    I’m off to the fancy dress shop for my disguise now…

  26. Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar on

    BRTH

     

     

    I didn’t actually say it’s the most important thing for me. It’s not but I’m now more anxious about how Celtic will deal with a scenario where this new club win a trophy which the old club had previously won.

     

     

    I understand that you don’t agree with the seriousness of this but it’s evident that ACGR and others disagree.

     

     

    Where we won’t agree is on who should be taking the lead or responsibility.

  27. CQN had planned to stage our THREE LIONS night at the Celtic Supporters Club in Greenock on Friday 6th June. The Greenock club – which is excellent – has already sold hundreds of tickets for this event and CQN has a small allocation.

     

     

    The THREE LIONS are Tommy Gemmell, Bertie Auld and John Hughes.

     

     

    It looks like we will have to re-think the name for the night though as I’ve just had a call from WILLIE WALLACE and he has confirmed that he’d be DELIGHTED to come down to Greenock on 6 June to join the other 3 Lisbon Lions. So now we have FOUR.. a Pride of Lions for CQN!

     

     

    Anyone wishing to reserve tickets please email david@CQNMagazine.com – this is going to be a very special evening in Greenock…

  28. steinreignedsupreme

     

     

    The issue doesn’t need further clarification though. The 1986 Act is the only proof required. That is the law, and opinion is irrelevant.

     

     

    Oh that it were so simple! On this issue opinion – widespread public – will be what forms future ‘reality’ and the histories of tomorrow.

     

     

    Only IMHO of course sir.

     

     

    HH jamesgang

  29. Stein

     

     

    I understand opinion shouldn’t matter, try telling that to a large chunk of the support.

     

     

    Openness, honesty and transparency should be what we are striving for, and yet, we are subjected to the opposite, all for their benefit.

     

     

    I fully understand the bigot pound is a major factor, but FFS.

     

     

    HH

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