The battle between what your eye tells you about a player and what his outcomes are is over a decade old. Does the player have heart and mental strength, or does he manage to achieve impressive outcomes without it?
Given the choice, I would probably opt for a player who can impress without the heart/strength combo. You can do a lot of work on those things, but you cannot move the dial much when it comes to innate talent. If he is achieving because he is maxed out on heart, adjust your expectations south. How do you judge if a player can translate form in one environment to another, such as Celtic Park? The stats tell you no more than your eye will on that one,
In 1990, Aston Villa chairman and manager, Doug Ellis and Graham Taylor sat preseason watching Villa play a Trinidadian side in a friendly. They didn’t know the players name, but they knew they were not leaving the Caribbean the standout striker. Doubtlessly, both the eye and the stats were in Dwight Yorke’s favour.
Brendan Rodgers entered this debate yesterday:
“There are things that you can never find out through analysis other than by being at a stadium, watching the player and seeing what their movement is like, seeing how he deals the with atmosphere.
“I always say, the analytical side doesn’t tell you if someone has a heart and personality. When you play for a club like this one, you need to have a heart and the mental strength.
“You have to find out those things and see them live. Obviously, statistics will give you a lot, but I’m not driven by it. It’s something which is a really good support for us.”
Who am I to tell our manager different, but I respectfully disagree. Data driven recruitment is how elite teams operate. If a player gets results because he has buckets of personality, because he has the Judgement of Solomon or because he has mastered the ancient practice of Voodoo, outcomes are all that matter.
Ruthlessly dedicate to outcomes or accept all this data modelling is just not for you. Some souls in Haiti practice both Voodoo and Christianity. Two gods to keep happy! But don’t let me worry you, maybe it’ll work out fine for us. Anyway, Hail Mary………
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Happy Friday eve!
New plastic bed sheets arrived just in time.
Tic-toe goes the clock
Who we getting in?
Boom
Deadline day Jan 23
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/deadline-day-is-as-it-should-be/
It’s amazing how the narrative changes depending on what the party line is.
What a shambles. The Lawwell’s are not just disliked, they are actively hated by sections of the support. It doesn’t matter what is said on here or elsewhere their mere presence is now creating a toxic environment and is harmful to the club. Their positions are untenable.
I don’t watch the huns so maybe they are still shite. I do know they are united, fans behind the manager, board spending what they can to support. And they have the MIBs as a wild card.
We are divided, fans split into factions, the manager is clearly not getting what he has publicly stated he wants. Peter Lawwell now briefing against him via his proxy, if these truly are the players Rodgers wants then I shudder to think at the dross presented to him by the recruitment team.
The title is 50 / 50 at best. Strap yourselves in.
Just missed a ….boom
mickey j doon at west browm.
open to offers for James F.
adam in glasgow, looks a strong lad.
It’s not looking so pretty in Celtica, lately. The sense is one of disquiet internally.
Gulp !!!!
What a grim picture todays article paints.
Familiar themes on multiple teams fan based social media.owners are clueless,spend more money.get to next level.this time next year Rodney….
margaret thatcher.
https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article32008820.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_JS323249343.jpg
Not sure what you are trying to say Paul – if advocating a purely data driven transfer strategy then I think you are wrong. Brendan summed it up I would say – data tells you a lot but you also need to factor in a few other things, e.g. speaking to the player to get a sense of how he feels and what you intuitively think of him, alongside seeing him in action and his interaction with his team mates etc.
Don’t know enough about who we did actually target v who we will have brought in, but come tonight we have what we have and need to get on with it. Brendan and others will stand or fall on what happens between now and the end of the season.
“The data looks good….”
‘Aye but can the boy play?’
bertieauldcsc
So you should only bring players in that you’ve personally scouted? Right. So with 11 hours to go before the transfer window closes how many of the players we might be considering have been seen by our scouting department? Or have we exhausted all those possibilities and nobody is coming in?
Tbh I don’t know any Celtic fan who has confidence in our recruitment process. It looks shambolic and the recent outcomes have been garbage. Hopefully someone good comes in today but I won’t be holding my breath.
Latest rumours- Mikey Johnston to West Brom
Turnbull in Cardiff for a medical
Tilio to Melbourne
Wee Jamesie to MLS
PSG LB not happening
Italian interest in Bernebei
If we have previously been driven by data, how did we sign Lagerbielke ?
You don’t have to go too far back to see how an otherwise good CB in Shane Duffy completely flopped at Celtic, largely because he didn’t have the recovery pace to play the necessary high line.
I hope this is just Paul’s opinion and not someone passing on information. If it’s the latter our recruitment guys better run data modelling on a new manager as this does not look good.
B78- ‘ the manager owns this Window ‘ ,aye woke up on the 1st of January, praying to get a 4th choice striker from Norwich, honestly the rubbish gets worse on here,you could be doing an article on here soon.
Paul67
What do we expect him to say?
He’s spent January oiling the exit door and smoothing the way to reduce the bloated squad he ‘ inherited ‘ in summer.
We go again in the second half of the season, earn your money Brendan
Judging by our summer buys last year, i’d say that the ‘data driven’ policy has been left in tatters. Hipster nonsense.
With all due respect, Paul, that’s absolute guff.
Here’s the thing; those of us who want the Lawwell Family moved on can be objective at least about what Daddy Lawwell has brought to the club. He was a good front man. He clearly knows how to reach out to sponsors and commerical partners, although his focus on booze and betting was dreadfully narrow. Still,record breaking deals can’t be sneezed at in the context of Scotland.
His contempt for subsequent Ibrox boards is well know and a pure fact whether people accuse him of being a stooge of Ibrox or not; I can tell you from experience and first hand knowledge that his dislike of them – even hatred for them – is as real and raw as anyone here.
Lawwell Snr has been effective in certain areas and if he’d stuck to them many of us would be singing a different song about the guy.
You are entirely unable to be objective about Rodgers, even when he is very obviously right. Your constant barbs at him and attempt to paint the summer window as some blinding success (it wasn’t, and almost everyone recognises that it wasn’t, including the manager) whilst attempting to suggest that this window has been a disaster to be blamed on Rodgers is transparent.
But this leader today is just purely and simply ridiculous. Rodgers has expressed a sentiment which is widely held across football, and by almost every elite manager. Ange said much the same. Lennon himself, who you put such store in, never trusted analytics at all.
You’re building a case against Rodgers out of smoke and mirrors and whereas I think you just cant stand the guy – which would put you in the same bracket as a lot of other Celtic fans for the way he left last time – a lot of others will conclude that you have a Lawwell hand up your backside and you’re pushing an agenda.
To be honest, selective use of facts and whoppers like that makes it look bad. I know you don’t care what the Little People (aka the bed wetters) have to say, but really … that’s so far removed from reality that you could be writing for Ibrox Noise.
I’m happy that the spreadsheet that has given us our last 3 transfer windows has been closed down, hopefully we forgot to autosave.
I’m left wondering why a head of recruitment who has seen his role taken over by the football manager is still drawing a salary.
What amazes me is that Celtic are still rummaging around the £3m market. We signed guys at the £6m level over 20 years ago. We are selling players on for way more than we ever done but it doesn’t seem to change the market we shop in.
I wonder if Ange will swoop for Super Scout Mark Lawwell,before the Window slams shut?
Gus Lagerbielke has the same agent as Carl Starfelt
Be interested to see the data on how a defender positions himself, concentrates and makes decisions!
Anyway, if there is (as seems to being hinted at, and apologies if I have picked that up wrongly) a disconnect between the manager and the recruitment team, why no director of football? Don’t most “elite teams” have one?
Now, off to drool over Albian Ajeti’s impressive data…….
If data drove the summer recruitment…..
Thats how we work.
Oh this kids data looks good. Sign him while he is cheap before anyone gets him.
‘Ah but I don’t need him’
‘Doesnt matter’
‘What do you want me to do with him’
‘You’re the manager’
‘But I don’t need him for the squad. Its not what we need. What don’t you understand’
‘Doesnt matter’
The problem is we are buying kids for potential regardless of whether it’s what the squad needs. Scattergun in the hope we get lucky.
2 of the summer signings are away on loan. A 3rd was recalled from the airport. Due to an injury. A 4th is already back at the parent club.
And the positions that have been glaring for past 12 months are still not filled.
Ange dispelled all the transfer myths whilst we were lawellless. Recruited for specific positions and played them. A mix of experience and potential
But back to same old same old except we maybe have a manager who is saying nope I’m you are not doing what you did at summer.
What is it about accountants that they think everything depends on numbers. What a lot of absolute garbage gets spouted on here in the form of an article and then fully supported by “successful people” and encyclopedians.
Gustav won Swedish defensive player of the year, thats what your data bought you.
Would we have bought, Sutton, Larsson, even Lubo? Why do we continue with cheap punts then, of course we know its purely a numbers game there, we havent moved on since 2005 on the actual ceiling we put on players, we dont have a clear strategy unless their french players and we might go to £8m or £9m but those are the rarity.
Did we recruit Mooy based on stats?
CQN is purely a vehicle for getting the PLC’s failure left at some one else’s door*
*whilst thats not technically true they do promote and assist some great causes.
Incredibly we may even come out of this window with a profit !!
Clearly the manager/recruitment team haven’t been given any spend
Can someone explain what is the point of a football club sitting on a mountain of cash?
BSR- BR is trying to get rid of the dross he was given in the summer…….
Less than 11 hours to go in the Hysteria Window.
I am unsure if bedwetting is a comorbid feature.
We will remain in this state until we negotiate (successfully, if we can) the Aberdeen, Hibs and St. Mirren games. Some might remain in that state until we best the Newly Mighty (yet again) Gers in April for the 3rd time this season.
I also respectfully disagree. I choose to interpret this statement as the manager stating the club use statistical analysis (of course they do) which the manager will supplement with a hands-on or face-to-face appraisal. No club has stopped sending scouts to watch prospective signings. I watched an EPL game last night where Gareth Southgate (England manager and voodoo witch doctor, apparently) was watching prospective call-ups, I assume he wasn’t personally recording yards run data. All of this data and analysis will be used to achieve a holistic assessment of the player.
I’m not sure why you’d choose to take issue with a statement of this type from any manager, let alone the one who’s in charge of the team we all support. I’d respectfully suggest a few articles that don’t include a sly closing dig at the manager for a while, this editorial slant is in danger of becoming an obsession.
“;Nobody wanted our money “
“ We tried but just couldn’t get one or two over the line “
“ January is always a difficult window “
“ there’s loads of people working behind the scenes “
@celticcliches
We look like coming out of this Window, with a profit, which will delight the parsimonious happy clappers on here.
‘ working up until the last minute…….’
Maybe the manager doesn’t trust the analyst ?
I wonder whether the relationship between the non executive chairman & the manager is still a battle of 2 egos ?
The concern amongst the bedwetters is justified.
A business like no other , or a football club like no other ?
A business like no
Loads of guys leaving very few more coming in. Big Pedro will be delighted. Utter shambles. Sack the crooks.
SONSOFERIN on 1ST FEBRUARY 2024 12:54 PM
I also respectfully disagree. I choose to interpret this statement as the manager stating the club use statistical analysis (of course they do) which the manager will supplement with a hands-on or face-to-face appraisal. No club has stopped sending scouts to watch prospective signings. I watched an EPL game last night where Gareth Southgate (England manager and voodoo witch doctor, apparently) was watching prospective call-ups, I assume he wasn’t personally recording yards run data. All of this data and analysis will be used to achieve a holistic assessment of the player.
I’m not sure why you’d choose to take issue with a statement of this type from any manager, let alone the one who’s in charge of the team we all support. I’d respectfully suggest a few articles that don’t include a sly closing dig at the manager for a while, this editorial slant is in danger of becoming an obsession.
____
👏
There’s an old Fry & Laurie sketch where they read the lyrics of “Let’s call the whole thing off”, without em[hasising the differences in pronunciation of tomato and potato etc;. They end by concluding “I can see nothing wrong with this relationship.
I feel the same about this manufactured dispute between use of hard data and some element of “soft data” evaluation. I see nothing in what Brendan said that diminishes respect for hard data and, surely, Paul67 doesn’t really believe that all elements of character evaluation are subjective, far less Voodoo. This revelation will come as a surprise to most Psychologists (and readers of Cosmopolitan, if that still exists)
See our next feature- 10 ways to bag a man during the transfer window.