It should be a matter of great personal pride to the football fans, manty of them Celtic fans, who campaigned against the Offensive Behaviour at Football’ Bill from the outset, and then against the Act, faced off against the Scottish Government at Holyrood yesterday and won.
Their satisfaction will be shared by James Kelly MSP, who raised the Bill in Parliament, which yesterday brought down the Act. Well done to him and his colleagues.
This nonsense was never about ending sectarianism, neither the SNP Government, nor the police, have moved an inch towards this goal since Alex Salmond first raised the subject.
Sectarianism in football grounds was given life in 2011 by then Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill, who sat through 90 minutes of The Billy Boys at Hampden, before congratulating fans on their performance. The Billy Boys returned to stadiums that day and since then, we have lived through an SNP endorsed open season.
The Act was a familiar mix of populist rhetoric and right wing police action so common with those who put identity politics before people.
After their defeat, the Government acknowledged they would recognise will of Parliament, despite ignoring the same will when an earlier vote on the Act was passed. Nicola Sturgeon did everything in her power to prevent this defeat.
Salmond has moved on to his spiritual home-broadcaster, where proto-right wing nationalists get to claim credentials of the left without challenge. Today we have a government and police force which have been made accountable to the law and the democratic will. The need for vigilance against extreme right wing policies continues.
Well done again to all those who campaigned so successfully.
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BRTH,
Great article on Clydebank. Brings home the pitiful horror of war.
One thing though: I think we need to contextualise any fear of “Scottish Nationalism” which might have motivated the UK government in its response to the disaster.
The Nationalists at this time included many fascist sympathisers like Hugh McDairmid and Arthur Donaldson, both of whom were leading figures and keen to do a deal with Hitler. So UK fears – if they existed – were probably well founded in a strategic sense.
Secondly, the people of Scotland had never shown, nor would they show for the next twenty-five years beyond the odd spasm, any inclination to give the Nationalists the time of day. In the midst of a war in which their town was destroyed by German Nationalist allies of the Scottish Nationalist leadership, I doubt the people of Clydebank would have been in any mood to listen to them either.
Auldheid,
Just picked up your reply from around 2am your time. Way past my bed time hence the belated reply.
Thanks for your insight into what version of Rangers would be dealt with at any potential Review Panel.
I knew you would see the funny/ironic side of it.
I say we should let them choose for themselves.That would be fun,especially if they chose to cling on to their delusions of being the same club which would leave them open to fraud charges.
Because,after all,it IS fraud they are guilty of.
medtim
CANAMALAR
I understand your frustration and indeed anger at what you see as obfuscation and obstruction.
I also understand AULDHEID’s compulsion for dotting the i and crossing the t. He wanted to cut off any escape routes,which,let’s face it,were being exploited ruthlessly beforehand.
You are on the verge of a famous victory,mate. Something for which you will always be remembered.
It doesn’t matter if it was won in extra time,even if you thought 90 minutes was enough,we’ll be celebrating anyway!
Hail hail,ya cantankerous legend!!!
Happy St Patrick’s Day to all in this special place!!
HH
Hot smoked
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=sJGNUxP%2f&id=54D76480C8EAADA3021B4D4154D65315B53D0D8C&thid=OIP.sJGNUxP_ZVVVqjvl3BIoOQHaHi&q=auk+head&simid=608032930231094849&selectedIndex=22
The above post is in reply to this just in case anyone is confused…. ;-))
HOT SMOKED on 17TH MARCH 2018 9:20 AM
I look forward to reading Aukdheid`s response to Canamalar.
Until then,
Cheerio for now.
JJ
St Patricks day racing at fontwell park ….it’s not Cheltenham but it is fun …
Have a good day all
Was reading about Michy Batshuayi being racially abused by Atlantic fans which greatly surprised me as I thought Atlanta’s fans group were part of Antifa.I gueas all it takes is a few morons to emberass any club.
this image is over on kerrrydale street.
the Honest first and best 9 in a row.
I have a vague memory of it being published when i was a bhoy.
A glossy print, maybe in the citizen?
anyone remember ?
Would be interested to see our current stats in comparison. If someone had the time to rattle it up.
No doubt Billy, Bobby and Jinky the mainstays.
Look how few players actually played.
First 6 –
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rQeZKd_YEk3PniTJ4aotPLhFwZRCbpKuzlQ8Q_4X9GKTN-Tm_jcsSspQHZiHsMa0Zr8KcDBknk26oNC-Oy8=w601-h800-no
3 in a row ( maybe 4 )
Atalanta not Atlantic
last 3 and the stats –
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jXIC-LkFYbZjmUeWslCnMOpKOApRwfLD5-BiN02OAf3T-ozOy-fsBqUNhzJxUKI3xM2fyMTSkPa2O8-6bCE=w787-h1000-no
One for the legal chaps.
Is it not possible to buy debt?
If it is possible, would it be possible to buy one of the 276 rangers’ creditors Debt?
With, e.g. the face painter’s debt, could one sue for payment from the liquidators of Rangers? Or
Sue Newco Rangers for the outstanding debt?
The court would have decide on which entity had to defend the suit, old club, new club or the same club.
Cannot be that expensive for a group looking for transparency in the ole “same club” debate to buy out the face painter to test the above hypothesis?
Eurochamps67
SometimesonehastoomuchtimeononeshandsCSC
answering my own question – the 9 in a row stats were published in a match day programme.
BOGNORBHOY
Aukheid ! That’s funny ?
Today’s picks from the ole CQN Couponeers –
BMCUWP – Portsmouth
JOBO – Dundee Utd
GFTB – Sheffield Utd
AWALK – Stranraer
TET – Accrington
LENNYBHOY – Wycombe
POG- Preston
BOGNORBHOY
Razorbill sharp wit !!
March 1981
Tuesday 17th
Lá Pádraig inniú ‘s mar is gnách níor thárla aon rud suntasach, bhí mé ar aifreann agus mo chuid gruaige gearrtha agam níos gaire, agus é i bhfad níos fearr freisin. Sagart nach raibh ar mo aithne abhí ag rá ran aifreann.
Bhí na giollaí ag tabhairt an bhia amach do chách abhí ag teacht ar ais ón aifreann. Rinneadh iarracht chun tabhairt pláta bidh domhsa. Cuireadh ós cómhair m’aghaidh ach shiúl mé ar mo shlí mar is nach raibh aon duine ann.
Fuair mé cúpla nuachtán inniú agus mar shaghas malairt bhí an Nuacht na hEireann ann. Táim ag fáil pé an scéal atá le fáil óna buachaillí cibé ar bith.
Choniac mé ceann dona dochtúirí ar maidun agus é gan béasaí. Cuireann sé tuirse ormsa. Bhí mo chuid meachain 57.50 kgs. Ní raibh aon ghearán agam.
Bhí oifigcach isteach liom agus thug sé beagán íde béil domhsa. Arsa sé ‘tchim go bhfuil tú ag léigheadh leabhar gairid. Rudmaith nach leabhar fada é mar ní chrlochnóidh tú é’.
Sin an saghas daoine atá iontu. Ploid orthu. Is cuma liom. Lá fadálach ab ea é. Bhí mé ag smaoineamh inniú ar an chéalacán seo. Deireann daoine a lán faoin chorp ach ní chuireann muinín sa chorp ar bith. Measaim ceart go leor go bhfuil saghas troda.
An dtús ní ghlacann leis an chorp an easpaidh bidh, is fulaingíonn sé ón chathú bith, is greithe airithe eile a bhíonn ag síorchlipeadh an choirp. Troideann an corp ar ais ceart go leor, ach deireadh an lae; téann achan rud ar ais chuig an phríomhrud, is é sin an mheabhair.
Is é an mheabhair an rud is tábhachtaí. Mura bhfuil meabhair láidir agat chun cur in aghaidh le achan rud, ní mhairfidh. Ní bheadh aon sprid troda agat. Is ansin cen áit as a dtigeann an mheabhair cheart seo. B’fhéidir as an fhonn saoirse.
Ní hé cinnte gurb é an áit as a dtigeann sé. Mura bhfuil siad in inmhe an fonn saoirse a scriosadh, ní bheadh siad in inmhe tú féin a bhriseadh. Ní bhrisfidh siad mé mar tá an fonn saoirse, agus saoirse mhuintir na hEireann i mo chroí.
Tiocfaidh lá éigin nuair a bheidh an fonn saoirse seo le taispeáint ag daoine go léir na hEireann ansin tchífidh muid éirí na gealaí.
(Translated, this reads as follows:)
St Patrick’s Day today and, as usual, nothing noticeable. I was at Mass, my hair cut shorter and much better also. I didn’t know the priest who said Mass.
The orderlies were giving out food to all who were returning from Mass. They tried to give me a plate of food. It was put in front of my face but I continued on my way as though nobody was there.
I got a couple of papers today, and as a kind of change the Irish News was there. I’m getting any news from the boys anyway.
I saw one of the doctors this morning, an ill-mannered sort. It tries me. My weight was 57.70 kgs. I had no complaints.
An official was in with me and gave me some lip. He said, ‘I see you’re reading a short book. It’s a good thing it isn’t a long one for you won’t finish it.’
That’s the sort of people they are. Curse them! I don’t care. It’s been a long day.
I was thinking today about the hunger-strike. People say a lot about the body, but don’t trust it. I consider that there is a kind of fight indeed. Firstly the body doesn’t accept the lack of food, and it suffers from the temptation of food, and from other aspects which gnaw at it perpetually.
The body fights back sure enough, but at the end of the day everything returns to the primary consideration, that is, the mind. The mind is the most important.
But then where does this proper mentality stem from? Perhaps from one’s desire for freedom. It isn’t certain that that’s where it comes from.
If they aren’t able to destroy the desire for freedom, they won’t break you. They won’t break me because the desire for freedom, and the freedom of the Irish people, is in my heart. The day will dawn when all the people of Ireland will have the desire for freedom to show.
It is then we’ll see the rising of the moon.
——
This was the last diary entry that Bobby Sands made.
His hunger strike was to last 66 days when he died on May 5th 1981 but not before he’d embarrassed the British establishment through his election to Westminster as an MP for South Fermanagh and Tyrone.
‘Our revenge will be the laughter of our children’.
The Rising of The Moon..
https://youtu.be/65DclJTIjIk
Canamalar it looks like OCD obsession on 17th March 2018 9:12 am
Incidentally, I bumped into said Tax Expert recently.
I think there is a variance in viewpoints here and if you like two belt and braces issues:
First, As you say the regulation 80 procedure is only used by HMRC when a debt is already overdue in their eyes and so is a recovery process for overdue and unpaid taxes.
However, the argument that came from somewhere, and I can’t remember where, was that “overdue” in the eyes of UEFA only occurred when a demand for payment had been de facto made and the time limit spelt out in the demand had been exceeded.
In such circumstances there was always the possibility that the timing of when the tax bill was legally overdue slipped between cup and lip certainly in terms of the deadline of March 30th.
However, there could be no argument re 30th June and so 30th June was focused upon.
Then came the rulling in Giannina which correctly sought to clarify the situation that arises when there is any kind of ambiguity or difference between national tax rules and UEFA rules. Basically, the CAS said in Giannina that if it can be shown that the club concerned agreed that the tax was due on a certain date, then it could be due, or even overdue, from that date.
When this ruling came out it became plain that RFC had indeed accepted that the tax bill was due before March 30th. If they accepted that it was due (at all) by that date then it was automatically overdue as we are talking taxes which were deliberately and fraudulently witheld by RFC going back to 1999.
When the tax advice came in, the defence we were anticpating was that UEFA or the SFA were going to argue that the bill was still not overdue as at March because there had been no demand by that date. Again Gianinna did away with that potential defence.
However, I agree with you totally in that the bill was technically overdue from 1999 onwards and the letter of 20th May makes that plain and, as I have always maintained, that means that every single licence application made by RFC since 1999 (domestic and european) has been made in bad faith, is inaccurate, and should be considered functus — basically RFC have not been legally qualified to enter any competition between the turn of the century and liquidation.
This is why LNS and all that he was asked to consider is such a squirrel and a red herring.
Where I don’t agree with you is on the idea of Celtic writing to HMRC for clarification as a creditor. They could certainly have written to BDO as liquidators and asked them to clarify the tax position which the liquidators might or might not have done, but I believe any similar letter to HMRC would have met with a blank response as Celtic PLC are not entitled to clarification of the tax affairs of another business by HMRC.
The SFA clearly could have taken this step and I presume that the SPFL may have had a similar mandate although I am not certain of that.
The second thing is that Celtic made it plain from the very start that they could not be seen to write to anyone concerning correspondence from HMRC or anyone else addressed to another football club. At the time, that correspondence was not wholly in the public domain (still isn’t) and even if provenance was fully proved the club could still not be seen to deal in another club’s correspondence.
At first, there were those within Celtic Park who thought they could take things further in this way, but subsequent legal advice made them hold their horses for the reasons expressed above, and in turn this led us to take the lead on writing in certain directions- albeit with the already anticpated handicap of not being a “member club” which the authorities used to try and fob us off.
Celtic were never going to ignore their own legal advice on this, and if you recall we tried to influence precisely waht they took legal advice on and the angel they used to approach things.
For me, the interesting thing is what interpretation is now placed on things if the letter of 20th May is fully out in the open, declared and examined properly by the SFA and everyone else. The Revenue’s interpretation of events is there for all to see, all to know, all to take heed off and think what precisely that meant.
Add this to the opening findings of Nimmo Smith:
“Oldco through its senior management decided that such side-letter arrangements should
not be disclosed to the football authorities, and the Board of Directors sanctioned the
making of payments under the side-letter arrangements without taking any legal or
accountancy advice to justify the non-disclosure;”
Taken together you have a judicial finding and a Government body declaration of a deliberate and fraudulent decision not to disclose the material truth for a period of 12 years in terms of football and tax compliance.
As at today, no football authority, has fully looked at the implication of what that means and what it meant at the material time.
Again, in other cases, involving other sports, the CAS has been quite clear under similar(ish) circumstances namely that where rules have been broken, deliberately or otherwise, but especially when they have been deliberately broken, then any sporting records which have been achieved as a consequences must be expunged!
I am not saying that is what will happen here (I am not that naive) but what I am saying is that upon any serious and logical examination of all the elements involved in this affair over the years, then it will be hard to reach any other judicial conclusion.
This is why Celtic and the SPFL called for a full review – a complete review – which looks at the whole issue and all the actions of the parties involved and using all the previously signed football mandates going back to 1999.
HT
Powerful emotional stuff
Thanks
The angel they used to approach things — I would buy an angel if I could get one!
Thanks again HT.
H.H
Right, I am away out for the day — all further discussion can be conducted from a hostelry!
HT
Bravissimo!
Wow!
Jose M loses El Plot on Sky!
Just had a leisurely read through BRTH’s article re corruption in the English legal system with specific reference to the Guildford Four/ Maguire Seven, the Birmingham Six and Hillsborough. The Establishment will do whatever to ensure that their world view and prejudices are reflected in the Judicial System. Clear miscarriages will be swept under the carpet even if innocent men and women must spend decades in prison.
The scale of the corruption in the highest echelons of Government and Judiciary highlighted by these cases makes the cover up by our football authorities look small beer by comparison.
I lived in Birmingham late 80s/early 90s and can confirm that there was a definite hostility towards the Irish among many otherwise liberal minded folk. I fell out with a few over it.
Justice for the victims of the corruption has still not been achieved because while their appeals were granted, nobody from the establishment has been called to account re the cover ups and corruption. Our wee bigoted corrupt SNP still has lots to learn from their Britnat big cousins.
Thanks, BRTH for posting the article. I read your Clydebank tale a while ago; it was terrific too.
HH
HT – thank you for the Diary entries, so poignant.
HH
Blantyretim.
About what time do you expect to walk out the Main entrance of Central Station.
I’ll time my journey to get down to getting to the Main entrance roughly about the same time you come out the Station.
Canalamar
The point of liability is a CAS ruling so you should take it up with them. The timing was crucial in terms of keeping Res12 alive.
My memory of events is different from yours but I’d rather not tease it out here.
Saw one of my posts doing the rounds on blue Twitter.
On Celtic messing around have you seen their letter of 20 May 2012 released in Sept 2017.
It paints a different story.
Oldtim
Train gets into central at 13.39
Blatyretim
That’s great, I’ll time my journey to coincide with your arrival.
HT
Powerful and very moving.
Thank you for posting.
Happy St Patrick’s Day to all CQNers. I have great memories of celebrating this day in various places from Brussels to New York. But wherever you are have a great day!
HT
I hope the screws who abused them got some payback in the most horrible of ways.
BRTH,
aye, after I posted I expected you or someone to home in on the HMRC, probably should have corrected to BDO sooner but the point being the plc did not mind supporters and shareholders being made targets. The FTTT also identified the wtc was an accepted liability so as I said the provenance was a moot point. BDO were/are duty bound to answer creditors requests for information as were D&P .
I do not accept the talk that the plc had no right to ask questions regarding another companies business especially when the victim of a fraudulent conspiracy between a competitor and the professional guidance body for the sector.
The implications of Section 80 was clear regardless of the overdue amount, an amount is overdue, UEFA does not stipulate minimum or maximum amounts making any difference to what overdue is. The onus was on rangers to quickly come to terms with HMRC to remain compliant with UEFA, they did not therefore were not compliant.
Aff oot to the St Patrick’s Day Parade in Glasgow……..oh wait……
So where will the snp now turn in their quest to criminalise Celtic supporters.
Step forward Matthew Lindsay, he that is a sevco cheerleader with this quote.
“Matches in Scotland are still blighted by chants about “Fenians” and “Huns” and other phrases which have no place in the modern game and the fact they are broadcast around Britain, Europe and the world on television continue to reflect badly on this country.”
And when did Hun become sectarian. My god if we called them goats then goats would become a sectarian word.
This is pathetic, desperate and once again a media led campaign to distort the truth.