I remember getting annoyed at the grief Gordon Strachan took after David Fernandez inspired Dundee United to a draw at Celtic Park. It was disproportionate, despite the poor performance, and ignored the sporting reality that weaker teams can get it right and leave Celtic Park with a point. As well as a lot of credit for their efforts.
Positives first. Many things didn’t work for Celtic yesterday but James Forrest looked to be back to his best. There was only one occasion he didn’t get past the Killie fullback all day, and he recovered to dispossess two opponents and win the ball back.
For James, it’s all about fitness and confidence. Right now, he has both.
I looked at the clock: 3 minutes had gone, Jozo Simunovic was still on his feet. ‘We’re breaking new ground’, I thought. Kilmarnock defended their penalty area all day, so we were seldom troubled, but you and I have seen enough football to know that’s not the whole story. Jozo was immaculate, didn’t put a foot wrong, covered ground with pace and precision. Threw himself into tackles and won the ball.
The contrast with recent defensive performances could have scarcely been more marked.
Elsewhere it didn’t go so well. Tom Rogic and Nir Bitton were both inhibited. Stuart Armstrong prodded but seemed out of sync with his team-mates. Passes regularly found an opponent. From my seat, it looked like our movement and use of space was inefficient.
The last 30 minutes of the game saw Kilmarnock clear their lines and regroup under sustained pressure. During this period, I was confident the goal would come, it usually does. Maybe the extra dimension we hoped we’ve recruited in Carlton Cole, out ill yesterday, would have given our wing play more of a target.
Since writing on the subject on Friday night I’ve seen some of the sectarian abuse left on Facebook about our director, Ian Livingston, amid a diatribe against refugees and all sorts of people who are minorities in the UK.
Years ago I wrote that there are few values we can anchor the club to. Scotland is changing, as are peoples’ sense of identity, no more so than when it comes to religious identity. We can’t, nor should we, impose restrictions on who becomes a Celtic fan. Our demographic is largely left of centre, but a Lisbon Lion went on to become a Tory councillor, so there’s no political bar to supporting Celtic.
I also know an Ulster unionist, who for several years joined his family and friends as a Celtic season ticket holder. He was always made welcome, and didn’t find the celebration of Irish heritage at Celtic incompatible with his identity. As the generations pass, we’ll see more of this. People will care less about 20th century politics (not to mention 17th century) and your view on transubstantiation.
Our founding value is that we are open to all. You will find a welcome at Celtic irrespective of colour, race or religion, you don’t need to care about Scotland or Ireland, we have Poles, English, Norwegians, Americans, Aussies and many more. Few of them had an Irish grannie.
These values are under threat across Europe. We should take every opportunity to reinforce them.
I took some advice on whether to out those behind the racist abuse yesterday, but I’m glad Ian Livingston did so direct on the Affiliation site (and apologies for the direct quote appearing on a CQN article, I pulled it as soon as I saw it).
I was also challenged over the weekend for criticising the chairman’s right to use any available platform to call out racism. I don’t feel qualified to say that’s not allowed.
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Him too! :)
Ok I’m taking a lurch forward…
If the cretins spouting ant Jewish bile are in fact Celtic supporters. Shouldn’t Bankier have said once identified ‘..these abhorrent ( he’d use that word for sure) imposters are bringing disgrace on the best fans in the world. I will make it my personal mission to ensure they are prosecuted for their criminally racist views. Protecting the reputation of our fans is my number one concern.’
I think I should take over. …?
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo
There have always been season books available for anybody who wants to bring his kid. People don’t want to.
Their kids would rather watch Man United on TV or play as Barcelona on FIFA.
Up and down the UK, the average age of football crowds is getting older.
It’s crap. We didn’t get any uptake when the board significantly lowered the price.
Now I only expect people who have an elementary education to understand what I have just said, I expect we will need to be patient with those who have trouble with interpretation. – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/saturday-agm-afterblow/comment-page-3/#comment-2724031
Always with the snide jibe, a true Celtic Trust man, now you know why res. 12 hasn’t moved in two years, this was the diplomat in charge of it, graduated from the Genghis Khan school of diplomacy.
The Green Man
Lighten up pal.
From now on I’m gonna imagine you look like a big green jelly baby
TIMALOY29 on 23RD NOVEMBER 2015 2:46 PM
So why jettison the kids for the return of Sevco ?
5 letters starts with M ends with Y
HH
TD67
I for example….know absolutely zilch about the Celtic Trust.
Your line of argument has been roundly condemned….you are in the minority, but that’s fine.
I have no agenda…other than seeing Celtic freed from the Stalin like grip of PL, IB, IL. and the rest of the Celtic PLC.
My motives are pure….Football, not money….unlike the PLC.
You underestimate the damage being done by the PLC…I really wish you would open your eyes.
HH
Turkeybhoy on 23rd November 2015 2:17 pm
Sandman on 23rd November 2015 2:13 pm,
You missed out Chelsea fans there.FFS,listen to yourself.
“Big bad boys did it and kidded on they were Celtic fans”
Pathetic.
====================================================
I bow to your superior knowledge.
I presume then that you can confirm absolutely that these individuals are and were, always, Celtic fans like you and me.
So if you are sure in that, please out them – expose their vitriol to their friends and family and teach them not to blacken the club’s name across the wider media world.
Of course, that is assuming you’re not just believing everything you read on the interweb…
Right everybody.. Take. a. Step. Back…
And…. Breathe…
How many other right wing Tory supporting Celtic fans have you met in your lifetimes?
Me neither… It’s just WRONG and a bit WEIRD.
Brother Walfrid was a monk not a mason .. Just for clarity.
We are a predominantly Cstholic socialist supporting club who believe in addressing inequality yet show tolerance and welcome supporters from different backgrounds should they wish to embrace the values of Celtic. I don’t want to be a club who welcomes all… God knows what we’d end up like. I have no care about gender, religious beliefs, sexuality as long as the fundamental beliefs and values of our founding fathers are embraced. That’s the key thing you must EMBRACE our core values.
Ach, well.
At least I tried …
As I said patience.
Awe_Naw..,
Just google, thick as pigs shit, you knew Tony Donnelly was the definition didn’t you :), that’s cruel.
The troll eats babies
I think we should create a new club charter just so we’re all clear to what’s acceptable. Hmm, Just off the top of my head!
No Tories
No Jews who like Israel
No other faiths (see above)
No iPhone wielding Capitalists
No to anyone with English sounding surnames
No if you secretly like the colour blue
No to anyone who doesn’t agree
Any others you can think of?
No Huns…. Obviously
Like ive said before.
If you are a rich Tory but have no political base or support in Scotland….What do you do to retain your sense of power.
Why, you latch on to the big corporate entities…Don’t you.
HH
The Green Man@2.37…whilst I find distasteful Ian Livingston’s political vote re tax credits, I just don’t see how he used Celtic to do this…it was a personal decision, wasn’t it?
TD67
What was the craic on the boardroom on Saturday. Was Big Peter raving about Ronny’s attributes post match?
THE GREEN MAN on 23RD NOVEMBER 2015 2:50 PM
Your right, you know absolutely nothing about the CT.
And your wrong, I’m not in the minority.
TD
You’re not Your…elementary school error:-)
No Fascists
“5 letters starts with M ends with Y”
Awe naw,
Mummy?
Surely no!?
HH
CANAMALAR on 23RD NOVEMBER 2015 2:56 PM
As I said patience.
Awe_Naw..,
Just google, thick as pigs shit, you knew Tony Donnelly was the definition didn’t you :), that’s cruel.
The troll eats babies
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/saturday-agm-afterblow/comment-page-4/#comment-2724052
And as I said this is the clown who’s hands where on resolution 12, clever or what? You decide.
Me? I’m off for a pint. HH.
Good Afternoon.
This entire episode can be broken down into 4 elements.
Lord Livingstone’s politics
Lord Livingstone’s religion
The Cahairman’s conduct of the AGM
The ability of the Celtic PLC board to comminicate to shareholders and fans.
So:
1. Ian Livingstone’s politics – like the politics of any other Celtic fan or member of society – are his own affair and for him to follow as a matter of belief and conscience.
On the face of it, and in the absence of any other explanation, Lord Livingstone answered a three line Conservative Party whip and voted for a measure which adversely affects the poor in society and, more importantly, promotes a policy that – some at least would argue – flies in the face of the Celtic ethos.
Note that was the Celtic ethos as opposed to the Celtic PLC ethos.
The mission statement of Celtic Football club is quite clear — the club is open to all.
Anyone of any religion, creed or politicall persuasion can come through the door.
However, like all clubs, the common membership of any club has, at least in general, a common purpose or ethos. If this is only just to play and watch football — then Celtic is a very different club to the one I imagine it to be as it is, and always has been, more than just a football club.
To that extent, and given that he is a paid member of a PLC executive, in everything he does Ian Livinsgtone is a representative of the PLC, the club, the shareholders and the fans. If his actions do not sit well with the ethos of the club, the PLC and the shareholders and the fans – then as a public figure he should consider whether those actions represent a conflict of interest.
Where someone’s personal politics represent even a potential conflict of interest, then in all truth, the best thing is to come straight out, explain your position, why you are doing what you are doing, and make the position plain.
In my experience, even those who disagree with your stance will admire your candour and may even come to realise that your stance is not what they presumed.
I am led to believe that Ian Livinsgtone’s position is that even though he was made a Lord by a tory Government, he himself does not claim to be a tory, and that the raison d’etre for his vote was a genuine constitutionl belief that the House of Lords should not be allowed to interfere in finance bills passed by the Government of the day. Many people believe in such a position and they are not all tories.
I am also led to believe he is not in favour of the current government’s welfare policies – especially on tax cuts.
All of the above may be correct or not — but that is what I am led to believe.
Let’s now move to point 2.
In the course of my Celtic supporting career I have had friends and Celtic supporters who have been Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Seikhs, Jews, Church of Scotland, Anglicans, Muslims, Hindu, Atheists, Agnostics and no doubt of a religeous persuasion that I know nothing about. It is ony when you know someone really well and are comfortable with them that you get into talking about their religion – again in my experience.
Some have been ministers of their respective churches and have very acute moral compasses on various issues. All believe in Celtic as a football club and more.
Anyone – any group, whether organised or otherwise – who condemns or even simply judges a man or woman on the basis of their religion is not likely to be any friend of mine.
I think that goes for the majority of Celtic fans and right minded people.
I understand that there were disgraceful comments about Ian Livingstone’s religion on facebook.
The authors are to be condemned and I would avoid walking on the same side of the street as such people every day of the week.
I believe, and sincerely hope, that they are in the minority.
3. Regrettably, the chairman of the PLC was not sufficiently savvy enough to recognise and publicly proclaim that the views set out at 2 above are likely to be the views of most Celtic fans. Further, as I understand it, he went on a frolic of his own fancy with some of the comments he made from the stage at the AGM.
He, and he alone, introduced a so called religious element into the re- election of Ian Livingstone. That was a dreadful error of judgement.
I believe that some of his remarks were not welcomed at all by fellow board members.
He handled a delicate situation poorly. There is no question of that.
In so doing he made matters worse for Ian Livingstone, the PLC, the club and the support.
He handed the press an unecessary negative headline, and as a chairman of a PLC of any kind, that is a cardinal sin.
Like any other representative of the PLC or the club, it is his duty and his job to promote the club and its fanbase – not undermine and belittle it.
Personally, I do not think the man is up to the job and not just because of the AGM and not just because of his public pronouncements.
I am sure he is a well intentioned chap but each of us have our fortes and Mr Bankier is not the best candidate to be chairman of Celtic PLC in my opinion.
Lastly, I again come back to the very structure of a PLC and that body’s ability to communicate.
Had Iain Livingstone per Celtic PLC made his stated position on the House of Lords vote clear at the outset then a whole shit storm could have been either avoided or greatly calmed.
It was discussed prior to the AGM but the decision was taken to say nothing!
Mr Livingstone knew he was up for election and people who are up for election, as often as not, have to make their position on this or that clear to their electorate.
Apparently Mr Livingstone did make his position clear — to those who own, posses and control the controlling votes. In turn they closed ranks behind him, rightly or wrongly, and agreed that his position and benefit to Celtic PLC were not incongruous and were of a view to vote for his re-election.
That is fair enough.
What is a disgrace, is that no one — not Mr Livinstone or anyone else at the PLC — had the business intelligence or even the common decency – to provide the ordinary everyday shareholders with the same explanations, the same political reasoning, and the same opportunity to stand back and examine the facts and reach a conclusion.
I am no fan of anyone who rushes to judgement, and of those who reach a conclusion before they are in possession of all the facts.
I for one did not sign any petition calling for Livinstone’s removal although I do believe that on the face of it his vote looks alien to the ethos of Celtic. Especially the ethos of the Charity Foundation on whose behalf I campagn regularly.
However, of far greater importance here is Ian Livingstone’s complete and utter failure to make his position known to certain fellow shareholders whom he knew had the right, and indeed the obligation, to vote on his continued particpation as a representative and an ambassador of the club.
Ian Livingstone has a duty to those shareholders just as he has a duty to those who control the majority of shares. By failing to provide them with any form of statement in advance of the AGM he failed in his duty as a Celtic PLC director and shareholder.
Eevery member of a club has a duty to his fellow members — that is what is meant by inclusive and inclusion.
You either embrace that or you don’t.
The ordinary shareholder has a say – not an equal say — but still a constitutional say in his appointment and his remuneration as a Celtic director. To ignore them and then have the Chairman publicly announce that he is “disappointed” in those shareholders reaching a contrary and perhaps ill informed view from the one reached by the inner sanctum is a disgrace.
I state once again, that the board of Celtic PLC has some very good people on it, but it is also inhabited by those who are out of their depth and who bring no value to the company as far as the ordinary shareholders can see.
In addition, many on the board see their position being defined by the PLC structure as opposed to recognising that the same PLC structure is was menat to be no more than a legal device for running the wider idea of the football club for the benefit of the fans and supporters.
This is another example of the PLC being run in the fashion dictated by a minority of Celtic fans who just happen to be the majority of the Celtic PLC shareholders and who therefore do not feel the need to be answerable to teir fellow members.
Once again, it goes without saying, that whoever runs the PR for the company is either completely hopeless -or even worse – is providing advice which the board, in their infinite wisdom, chooses to ignore to their continual detrimment, causing embarrassment to us all.
Good Communication is everything in business and politics – sadly when it comes to communication were are not even close to common courtesy or the premier league.
Misery
Weebobycollins,
Lordlivingstonofparkhead is a title he choose to link himself with the club, he would not have a vote if he was not a lord and to be honest shouldn’t have a vote on any legally binding policies being an unelected parasite.
Ellboy on 23rd November 2015 2:58 pm
You seem to be confused
The club charter is written by the board. Fans don’t get a say in it.
Personally I’d allow Tories to support the club. And Zionists, Jewish or otherwise.
Those with Iphones or other Apple products however wouldn’t be allowed under any circumstances.
WEEBOBBYCOLLINS
Well…let me put it like this.
If its not acceptable for the Green Brigade to display political banners, why is it acceptable for Mr Livingston to enforce his Tory ideology on those who rely on tax credits?
You see…Double standards will be challenged, as they should be.
HH
That’s right, scurry along now ya daft wee ned.
“How many other right wing Tory supporting Celtic fans have you met in your lifetimes? ”
Cultsbhoy,
Philvis!
And he could teach you a thing or 3 about supporting Celtic :)
HH
CANAMALAR,
Nearly all academic studies of internet trolling regardless of which culture carried out the research has came to the same psychological profile.
Narcissistic, Sadistic and Psychotic unless they are corporate, political or from special interest groups
HH
The Green Man,
They don’t rely on tax cuts, they have introduced more taxes than the socialists, what they rely on is idiots believing they want to reduce taxes when what they actually do is transfer the taxes they introduce onto the lowes paid.
It is a fact, the torys have introduced more taxes that all the other parties combined over the last two hundred years.
I shouldn’t have to remind people of the notion of collective responsibility in Government.
Mr Livingstone should be aware of that….you would think.
HH
Like any other club ,we have scumbags among our support. Let’s not kid ourselves.
However, I personally have never read comments from a supposed Celtic supporter like those directed at Livingston.
I have ,on the other hand, seen plenty of comments copied from hun sites and posted on here which are very much like those directed at Livingston.
Just saying …………..
I
It wisnae me…it wis they other bad tories.
Aye right you are.
HH
This could be a vain attempt to get back to football but here goes:
Gordon
Lustig Boyata Simunoviv Tierney
Forrest Brown Rogic Allan Commons
Griffiths.
Be interesting to see what Ronny decides.
JJ
GEORDIE MUNRO on 23RD NOVEMBER 2015 3:06 PM
That ´s the answer for internet trolls ..unsponsored.
on reflection, we should have a very open and transparent “fit for purpose” test for board members .
1. Are you really a Celtic supporter , ?
2. Declare if you are a mason ?
if your good at your job, number 1 doesnt apply, your ok.
If you declare number 2, then you cant be on the board.
Simunoviv is a relation of Simunovic who will play if Jozo is injured.
JJ
Jungle Jim
I like that team but I read somewhere that Rogic is an injury doubt?