Amid all the debate about oil, currency, pensions and a million other items, I’m surprised higher questions have not been asked about our cultural identity. I’ve never said I’m British in my life, I’m Scottish, but the full story is more subtle than that.
Despite being a football fan, a Scot and a Gordon Strachan fan, I watched another channel when Germany-Scotland was on. My sense of personal identity, the anthems I cherish, the emblems I’ve always worn, my ‘national’ community, is the one I share with you.
I know we have a large number of England-supporting, English-Celtic fans here, just as there are Ireland-supporting, Irish, and Scotland-supporting Scots, but some of us feel our strongest affinity among our urban, west of Scotland-based, Celtic community. This community will only ever march behind a green flag. There is nothing wrong or unpatriotic about this, finding your own identity is what multiculturalism is all about.
There are a thousand more national identities than actual nations, but why do many of us feel more like sons of Jock Stein, than Jock Tamson, or (cough) John Bull?
I don’t think there is a single British, or Scottish, cultural institution I feel an attachment to. I was really caught up with the whole Mo Farah/Jessica Ennis-inspired Super Saturday at the Olympics – delighted at the success of British athletes, but later that day, when Ki stepped forward to take the decisive kick for South Korea against GB, I punched the air with joy. The whole Burns Night thing feels like someone else’s party.
In fact, it’s worse than not having an affinity with a British cultural institution, our Celtic community is marginalised by competitors in the south. If Scotland, which is perhaps more bound-up in tribal football culture than anywhere on the planet, had EQUAL access to the UK’s cultural markets, would we feel so excluded?
I know there are many who are happy with the way sentiment is going right now, but if those intent on saving the union want to get busy on some urgent nation-building, they should set about removing the two-tier cultural divide which keeps our club, our community, from the top table. We pay an obligatory BBC tax to subsidise an England and Wales league, our non-tax-based pay TV money goes the same way. This is a distorted market, with Scotland obscured by an England-Wales cartel. As a result we’ve been drained of talent and financial muscle for a century.
Football is not controlled by politicians, but it can be, and is, influenced by them. Westminster is speaking with a more unified voice than I’ve ever known right now. Its voice should be clear: Scotland needs equal access to the UK’s cultural markets, including football.
Our exclusion is intolerable, unfair, has fermented disaffection and must end, irrespective of what happens next week. Why would Westminster politicians be unable to say this?
Let’s hear you.
The fantastic new edition of CQN Magazine is out today. You can read it, for free, here, at it’s dedicated site (don’t try to read on the graphic below).
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Ray Singh – yip. Nothing comes with any guarantees.
Ernie – I’m long enough in the tooth to.know it ain’t gonna be a Socialist state. Read my last post again.
Btw wanted to ask if you think you’ve persuaded any one on here to vote no? Undecided or previously Yes voters that is.
RobertTressell
17:07 on 9 September, 2014
I wouldn’t trust what anyone says on here about having changed their voting intention.
Particularly those who have appeared only recently.
Ernie. No.
Am I 100% correct with my points?
For the avoidance of doubt I am not a Nat or Cybernat or Nat King Cole, get it? You are one big contradictory fraud.
aud bertie – so whats your logic ? snp have no tims on their executive because those on the uk equivelant were baddies ?
C’mon Bhoys and Ghirls Celtic needs your help here – http://bgdvuboy.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/CELTIC-vs-INDEPENDIENTE.html
auld bertie
17:10 on 9 September, 2014
So you appear after the referendum is announced, post almost exclusively about nat politics, and you want to be taken seriously?
Was King Cole a nat? OMG.
A very learned lady (Edinburgh Uni lecturer) was on the radio the last night talking about her research into why the Scots believe they have a different (left wing – more social) political outlook.
Turns out her findings were that we think/percieve we are more left leaning but the facts don’t actually stack up that way, we are pretty much the same as everyone else.
I was surprised I must admit but I am long in the tooth enough to remember when the Tories had the most seats in Scotland, so I shouldn’t be that surprised I suppose.
Steinreignedsupreme
What has happened to Scottish football left to run itself is not in my opinion trivialising anything.
It is not trivial to ignore what it tells us about living next to a competitive market that out prices us.
It tells us how an unaccountable governance with no checks and balances can become corrupt.
It tells us how that corruption is kept from the population at large by self serving media whose interests as well as government coincide with keeping things hidden.
It tells us that ethics has taken a holiday or emigrated.
It’s been an eye opener for me.
Just saw the saltire being hoisted at 10 Downing Street.
I was yes. But because of this act by the Westminster government I’m now a firm No.
Game changer for me.
This Independence thingy.. wull.. well…
Ah wull wait n see..
But..
Ye kin Bet yer Boattum Dollah..that .. “The Boattum Line”.. wull Dictate
If ..It wull be an “Aye or a Nay”.
Boattum Line.. n.. This is ALWIZ the Boattum Line o’..
Well.. o’…. ANY BLOODY THING!
(Bet ye ur jist Dying tae Know.. whit THAT is?)
The Boattum Line?
“Whit’s in it FUR ME??”
That’s the sole n ONLY reason why..
Politics n the Policies,,thereof..
NEVER woik.. !
Human Nature is The Enemy o’… ALL the PRESENT Political Philosophies..
Yes..
Self Interest, wull Trump.. ALTRUISM.. Six Wey fae Sunday.
Wan day, you kiddies wull Tumble..
but.. by then..
Ye wull Hiv Fallen.. Wey ,Wey Behind ..in the
Human .. Rat Race.
Heck.. Ah happen tae hiv Lucked Oot..n
Tumbled.. Pretty Early in Life..
Like the Man Said..
“Hey.. Things ur Tough. Awe Over.”
Kojo
Still,Laughin’
Bawsman
Left leaning or right it’s only selfishness dressed up in attire that suits the wearer.
The only way Celtic will be playing in a bigger league i.e. EPL is if all four associations agree to merge, I cant see this happening, too many blazers and vested interests. Westminster is now panicking at the prospect of Scotland going indepedent, many Mp’s without jobs is the motivation, not public service,howevertThe nuclear bases on the Clyde for warheads and submarines will be a strong bargaining chip for a yes vote who need currency stability and England that has nowhere to put them for 10 years.
Bawsman
17:14 on 9 September, 2014
‘A very learned lady (Edinburgh Uni lecturer) was on the radio the last night talking about her research into why the Scots believe they have a different (left wing – more social) political outlook.
Turns out her findings were that we think/percieve we are more left leaning but the facts don’t actually stack up that way, we are pretty much the same as everyone else.
I was surprised I must admit but I am long in the tooth enough to remember when the Tories had the most seats in Scotland, so I shouldn’t be that surprised I suppose.’
###
It shouldn’t come as a surprise, it’s pretty much settled.
That’s why I was asking the other day whether posters think the Scots are more humane, more concerned about social justice etc than the Irish.
I don’t think either is any more or less than the other.
But Ireland’s never been a socialist or left wing country.
Jim Mather was absolutely correct when he said ‘Any notion that an independent Scotland would be a left wing country is delusional nonsense.’
ipaddy mccourt
15:59 on 9 September, 2014
I don’t support Scotland, I don’t support any international team because it’s crap. Supporting the hoops is plenty for me. HH
I’m a big Scotland fan.
It’s difficult of course as this is one of the only countries in the world more dedicated to the club game.
HH
It should be ‘foments disaffection’ not ‘ferments’.
You ‘ferment’ spuds to make hooch.
You ‘ foment’ when you want to stir things up.
I blame Catholic education.
Auldheid
I changed a couple of words in your first sentence…
What Westminster has done – left to run itself is not in my opinion trivialising anything.
It is not trivial to ignore what it tells us about living next to a competitive market that out prices us.
It tells us how an unaccountable governance with no checks and balances can become corrupt.
It tells us how that corruption is kept from the population at large by self serving media whose interests as well as government coincide with keeping things hidden.
It tells us that ethics has taken a holiday or emigrated.
It’s been an eye opener for me.
Mad eh? You take Ogilvie, al go fur Cameron
man u and liverpool fans dont turn up i their droves to watch england.
Auldheid
17:16 on
9 September, 2014
Bawsman
Left leaning or right it’s only selfishness dressed up in attire that suits the wearer.
====================================
We get the politicians/policies we deserve.
Labour were in opposition to Thatcher because the country (UK) is centre right when in the privacy of the ballot box.
A proposed up front and honest increase in income tax (however small) was a ball and chain in the Labour manifesto for successive elections.
What we ended up with was reduced Income Tax and a whole raft of Stealth Taxes.
We NEED to pay tax, the more the better IMO, any party advocating that however, is dead in the water.
Auldheid 1617:-
I`m not aware of any Scottish clubs besides Celtic and Sevco clamouring to have the freedom to choose an alternative part of the UK in which to operate.
So to me it seems that this debate is all about self interest; Celtic`s self interest in trying to get a piece of the English tv deal action and stuff any notion of preserving our record in Europe while we joust with the likes of Milton Keynes Dons and Rochdale. But hey, the bottom line is fine thanks to the tv money so it is all good.
TV markets aren’t set in stone; what happens if we join the English leagues and the backside falls out of the tv deals. Do we then chap on Germany`s door and ask if we join their league?
Scottish football is not dying as a commercial enterprise; Dundee Utd are on course to break their record for season ticket sales and have sold two players for £3 million plus. Aberdeen have sold over 10,000 season tickets.
More people per capita go to football games in Scotland than in virtually any other country in Europe.
So what if we don’t get the same tv monies as teams in England? At least we`re not recycling the money on to make millionnaires out of the likes of Anelka, John Terry and other unsavoury characters.
We`re a club with Irish origins that was established and competes in Scotland. We made our name in Europe. The various governing bodies do not recognise the UK as a footballing entity outside of the Olympics. Accordingly we have no more reason or right to play in England`s leagues than we have to play in the leagues of France, Spain, Japan or Ghana.
I don’t think anyone really believes Scots are more conscious on social issues etc than anyone else or any other UK nation.
But…
We seem more inclined to …
want something done about it, even including public spending.
HH
RWE
15:37 on 9 September, 2014
A polarized debate with name calling. I’m so glad it’s not anything very important.
On here last night, I read of Yes inclined posters celebrating the fact that they had chased off the blog another poster who had posted something of which they disapproved. His crime was to explain how the company that employs him had withdrawn millions from a Scottish institution because of the uncertainty should there be a Yes vote. He didn’t say what his views were on the issue, but included it as a cautionary tale.
The reaction(s) was/were the antithesis of what a Celtic supporter should be.
Inclusive, regardless of race and belief – my erchie.
HH
===================================
The aggresive radicalisation of some of the neo-Nats who previously had as much interest in politics as they did in agricultural innovation in the Edwardian age has been the eye-opener for me these past few months.
Disturbing to see how easily-led/converted/duped/brainwashed many rational human beings, young and old, can be by a currently-fictional ideology of promise and hope.
Islamic State have an envoy over taking notes…
That’s my observation on this strangely duplicitous wee country’s situation.
By the way, knee-jerkers, save your vitriol for someone who gives a feck – I haven’t decided either way yet and I’ll do so by calculating what’s best for my kids and family’s future. Not on conditions laid down by your intimidation or emprty rhetoric.
Meanwhile..
Back at the Ranch…
Ah see that Ma Tips fur Future Celtic Stardom..
Mark Hill..Regan Hendry.. N… Calvin Miller.. ( No Aiden Nesbitt?.. Hmmm)
ur among the Under Seventeeners.. who wull be Among the Kiddies. who wull Represent Scotland in the Upcoming..International Tournament..
Mark Hill.. Is the Real Deal..
Ah am quite worried that He may be snatched frum the Celtic Creche. by Manchester United.. or Similar.. Jist… At the time when he is Due tae sign His First PROFESSIONAL FORM..
A Real Danger.. Yep.. Ah canny help worrying. fur this Lad is
Like . Tony the Tiger..
He is …
GREEEEEAAAAAT!
Kojo
Still,Laughin’
Auldheid
“Left leaning or right it’s only selfishness dressed up in attire that suits the wearer.”
Spot on. The simple truth is that there is an underlying mindset (that is certainly not unique to Scotland I must point out, sadly it is a universal truth) that believes that if Scotland is allowed to trouser the lion’s share of future oil revenue then it will become a smashing wee place to live and work.
Of course nobody in favour of this will come out and SAY that is the main reason for pursuing this rather selfish objective, for that would fly in the face of the sanctimonious preaching about “a fairer world”. But it is plain as the nose on your face that this aspect is a huge dangly carrot for a great many YES voters.
That is fine, I can fully understand that motivation. The considerable revenues garnered thus far and shared across the entire island has clearly not produced the required results, at least for half of the Scottish populace anyway. So there is some justification for trying a new tack.
I just wish that people would ditch the hypocrisy and just have the stones to admit this, and stop trying to hide behind a mock veneer of self-righteous codswallop relating to moral integrity.
noo me ….I drop one weetabix intae my bowl of cool milk and leisurely scoff it doon …then I drop the next Weetabix intae the bowl …..never has a soggy Weetabix had to forced doon eyes closed …..
ye can learn a lot if your prepared to be taught ……aye that is true aboot a lot of things …
braw …..
TGBS…
Well said!
If the football is an analogy of independence then I don’t want it.
Forever enviously looking into the neighbours lush garden instead of improving what we have!
How truly desperate are the NO campaign,
Photographing *anny Alexander hoisting the saltire in westminster.
I’m blushing for himcsc
If anyone has answered this query, I have missed it. Any update on Scott Brown`s fitness?
JJ
Spikeyauldman. Didn’t realise Tony Blair and Ian Duncan Smith were Tims, who would have thunk? Where did I mention Tims?
Paul 67
I am a Celtic fan,I am a Scotland fan
No ifs or buts
Nowt uncomfortable with either my club identity or supporting the country of my birth.i am also content with my irish heritage too.
Scotland in a football sense has always been independent of its southern neighbour.The question as to why access to England is being suggeste is not the current political debate.It is solely about money.And that in my thinking is toxic.
Celtic to me are the finest and most successful example of the irish diaspora at work within the UK They done that through hard work, learning and improving, as well as being open to all who felt an affinity with the hoops.i would rather see us performing within Scotland and progressing thro what ever reforms Uefa implement.imo this should come from a league structure instead of EL and CL
I think our identity here in Scotland is what a lot of us hold dear to and have done so since our club was formed through good times and bad.it cant be sold for engish gold.
What would we be down there anyway Paul? We cant even speak out after the cheating reign of Murray, instead our current majority shareholder assured those who stole the soul of our game’they are a great club with history etc(gies me the boak typin it)
Lets focus on our identity, our game and our fans (unstead of treatin them shamefully at times) instead of looking to the EPL all the time as if a cure all move there is the answer.it is not.Uefa competition is the way forward imo
:-)
HH
Auldheid 17:15 on 9 September, 2014
I’m surprised if my previous comments came across as support for the Scottish Football Association.
I certainly agree with your points.
My earlier post about the Scottish independence referendum having sod all to do with the league Celtic wishes to play in remain unchanged.
Celtic will never be invited to play in the EPL or have the opportunity to progress to that league.
So voting Yes or voting No makes no difference on that issue.
auld bertie
Didn’t Tony Blair leave office and then become a Catholic as i am led to believe no Prime Minster is allowed to hold that position if you are a Catholic ? If I am wrong im sure Ernie will correct me !
I have just thought of a way to get a reply:
Is Scott Brown fit yet? Yes or No?
JJ
Timabhouy
I think a Catholic can become Prime Minister.
JJ
Timabhouy
17:44 on
9 September, 2014
auld bertie
Didn’t Tony Blair leave office and then become a Catholic as i am led to believe no Prime Minster is allowed to hold that position if you are a Catholic ? If I am wrong im sure Ernie will correct me !
==================================
Nothing to stop a Catholic being PM
No Ernie, I do not post exclusively about NAT politics, check my posts or get ‘one ‘of your curious friends to check, I post mainly to rebuttal your right wing excrement, while you try to portray yourself as a Socialist or Left Winger. You are a bully.
Don’t booze too much with-your friends.
They are less flattering about you, than is healthy. Got to go.
Alistair Darling pleading for a No vote as it guarantee’s him a place in the House of Lords. He resigned from the Faculty of Advocates. Oh dear.