Amid all the debate about oil, currency, pensions and a million other items, I’m surprised higher questions have not been asked about our cultural identity. I’ve never said I’m British in my life, I’m Scottish, but the full story is more subtle than that.
Despite being a football fan, a Scot and a Gordon Strachan fan, I watched another channel when Germany-Scotland was on. My sense of personal identity, the anthems I cherish, the emblems I’ve always worn, my ‘national’ community, is the one I share with you.
I know we have a large number of England-supporting, English-Celtic fans here, just as there are Ireland-supporting, Irish, and Scotland-supporting Scots, but some of us feel our strongest affinity among our urban, west of Scotland-based, Celtic community. This community will only ever march behind a green flag. There is nothing wrong or unpatriotic about this, finding your own identity is what multiculturalism is all about.
There are a thousand more national identities than actual nations, but why do many of us feel more like sons of Jock Stein, than Jock Tamson, or (cough) John Bull?
I don’t think there is a single British, or Scottish, cultural institution I feel an attachment to. I was really caught up with the whole Mo Farah/Jessica Ennis-inspired Super Saturday at the Olympics – delighted at the success of British athletes, but later that day, when Ki stepped forward to take the decisive kick for South Korea against GB, I punched the air with joy. The whole Burns Night thing feels like someone else’s party.
In fact, it’s worse than not having an affinity with a British cultural institution, our Celtic community is marginalised by competitors in the south. If Scotland, which is perhaps more bound-up in tribal football culture than anywhere on the planet, had EQUAL access to the UK’s cultural markets, would we feel so excluded?
I know there are many who are happy with the way sentiment is going right now, but if those intent on saving the union want to get busy on some urgent nation-building, they should set about removing the two-tier cultural divide which keeps our club, our community, from the top table. We pay an obligatory BBC tax to subsidise an England and Wales league, our non-tax-based pay TV money goes the same way. This is a distorted market, with Scotland obscured by an England-Wales cartel. As a result we’ve been drained of talent and financial muscle for a century.
Football is not controlled by politicians, but it can be, and is, influenced by them. Westminster is speaking with a more unified voice than I’ve ever known right now. Its voice should be clear: Scotland needs equal access to the UK’s cultural markets, including football.
Our exclusion is intolerable, unfair, has fermented disaffection and must end, irrespective of what happens next week. Why would Westminster politicians be unable to say this?
Let’s hear you.
The fantastic new edition of CQN Magazine is out today. You can read it, for free, here, at it’s dedicated site (don’t try to read on the graphic below).
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davidopoulos
13:26 on 9 September, 2014
Boris and oul’ Lizzie as the krankies. That just could work.
Fandabbydozy together.
Googybhoy
I think we’d be on to a loser. UKIP could quite easily say that they were referring to the actions of the individual.
This is Money
Confidence among Scottish businesses to take on new staff has fallen to its lowest level in two and a half years.
Figures from employment group Manpower today show that the jobs outlook, which measures how likely firms are to hire, has fallen to just +3 per centc. Three months ago it was +9 per centc. Director James Hick said: ‘There is a lot of nervousness from employers about making new investments.’
He said Scottish independence would lead to a jobs boom in the Newcastle and Carlisle areas as companies moved operations south of the border.
Professor Roy Batchelor from Cass Business School in London said: ‘The risks to the UK are trivial compared to those triggered in Scotland by the likely flight of capital and business talent if the Yes campaign wins.’
Big call now from Tory MPs for Queenie to speak up for the unionists.
Please, please do, Betty!
googybhoy
Unless the words IRA have been photo-shopped by UKIP onto that flag, then there is little to be gained by our club wading into that area.
Semi serious question….
If Celtic were offered a place in the new British Premier League in the event of a no vote next week….
How many of the yes voters on here would change their vote?
:)
Cameron has said he is coming up tomorrow to listen to the people of Scotland. Where is he going? I would love to speak to him.
I find it quite sinister that someone would post on here under the moniker of another poster.
SFTB
I did see it, but it was past bedtime. My apols for not acknowledging it the following day, but yesterday was one of them…
It looked to me that you had made two errors in the premise of your response: One of misinterpretation; and the other of attribution.
You misinterpreted my post as: “claiming that ernie was a plant/machine/troll/virus kind of poster with an agenda”.
I made no such claim. I made an observation. I observed that “Ernie Lynch” gave such an impression. Impressions may not be accurate, but they remain validly perceived nevertheless. You can provide the professional chapter and verse there.
You also made an error of attribution, attributing (and thus compounding) your misinterpretation to some motivation on my part, beyond the (naturally) wholly altruistic matter of pointing out to “Ernie” that the impression he gives may not be wholly representative of his natural self.
Ernie gives (me and others) the impression of an agendised caricature. That he may very well be in real (as opposed to virtual) life a fine fellow who loves his Mum, serves his community and pays his taxes doesn’t invalidate how the character is perceived by those of us who read his posts and interact with him here.
That would simply be a case of giving the wrong impression, which would be only too human.
I hope that’s helpful.
TBB
I will be voting YES, I made up my mind fifty odd years ago.BUT if voting no would guarantee Celtic entry into the English league I just might do so.
Davidopoulos
You deride the effectiveness of two minutes?
Some of my best work has been done in under two minutes
setting free the bears for res. 12 & oscar knox but saying no to cqn racists
13:40 on 9 September, 2014
If the letters have been photo shopped I suspect it wasn’t done by UKIP. That picture has been about for a good while.
setting free the bears for res. 12 & oscar knox but saying no to cqn racists
13:42 on 9 September, 2014
Davidopoulos
You deride the effectiveness of two minutes?
Some of my best work has been done in under two minutes
——–
And that included a smoke after it! :-)
‘Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.’
Doesn’t mean that nats themselves have to behave like infants, but going by the posts on here, it seems it’s their preferred option.
Paul67 – a thoughtful and interesting article. It got me thinking.
And you make a very good point. I’ve always felt that Celtic is my tribe. I like to see Scotland, Ireland, and England do well. But it doesn’t upset me when they lose.
But when Celtic wins, the sun is brighter, the air is sweeter, and the world is a happier place. When we lose, it nags like a sore tooth for days.
Wherever I go in the world I am usually pleased to meet a Scot or Brit or Irishman, but I’m delighted to meet a Celtic supporter. We are, even in these blander, more straitened times, more than a club.
“Our exclusion is intolerable, unfair, has fermented disaffection and must end, irrespective of what happens next week. Why would Westminster politicians be unable to say this?”
Because it’s none of their business. Football doesn’t benefit from the intercession of politicians. There are enough politics in football as it is.
Also, I fear the mood of Scotland today is against us. I’ve watched with no small degree of incredulity as the No campaign has contrived to squander its lead and it appears a majority of Scots are now flirting with separatism. Make no mistake: Scotland will be a smaller, poorer and more claustrophobic place if a Yes vote is delivered next week. Even if it’s a No vote, enough damage may have already been done that the Union might not survive for very much longer. A lot of businesses are already looking to de-risk their investments in Scotland. And long after the ballot papers have been counted, the bitter stoor stoked up by this protracted referendum campaign will linger in the air.
That doesn’t bode well for more integration between English and Scottish football.
I move that Celtic should secede from Scotland and set up a sovereign city state based on the Vatican. (thumbsup)
Hamiltontim
13:43 on 9 September, 2014
setting free the bears for res. 12 & oscar knox but saying no to cqn racists
13:42 on 9 September, 2014
Davidopoulos
You deride the effectiveness of two minutes?
Some of my best work has been done in under two minutes
——–
And that included a smoke after it! :-)
——————-
Aye but was it a chocolate cigarette?
Woohoo Philvis is back!!!!
Any update on BlokeBath Mountaingate?
(Apols Ernie)
Did I just summon Philvis with my post at 13:27? Is he like Beetlejuice?
bawsman
12:42 on 9 September, 2014
Folly Folly
12:35 on
9 September, 2014
Bawsman @ 12:33
Do you think Ireland has become impoverished by being self governing
=====================================
Ask an Irishman.
The way I see it from afar…Ireland has had major problems, many families/businesses destroyed as the Celtic Tiger crashed and burned with not enough cash in the bank to bail it out.
Long, slow, painful journey out of a hole financed to a large degree by very fair loans from the Bank of UK.
—–
Yeah let’s face it, the native Irish positively flourished under centuries of English /British rule.
The recession hit Ireland cos it was a recession. Not because they’d gained independence almost a century ago!!!
HH jamesgang
What a pathetic QC Sevco have. must come cheap.
The ‘error in law’ is ‘cos the last 2 judges accepted the worthless assurances made by Sevco that contrary to widespread belief, everything was hunky-dory down Sevco way.
Sadly, the fact that Sevco themselves have now openly admitted that things are far from hunky-dory now means that the previous 2 judgements were clearly in error.
Or more to the point, Sevco told porky-pies.
A great day for Sevco. They have successfully won the right to give their lawyers even more money. Congratulations.
But remember, you still have to set aside the cash for Imran. The original verdict still stands!
I don’t quite think the SMSM understand that bit.
philvisreturns
Welcome hame:))))
“Some of my best work has been done in under two minutes”
Two minutes is a very long time when you are not enjoying yourself. :)
Is there a “third solution” of having a quasi independent Scotland that is federated to the UK?
Would some people prefer that?
Is it still an option regardless of who wins the vote – or is that option non viable under current rules?
Davidopoulos
13:44 on 9 September, 2014
I play 5s with SFTB, he’d be smoookkkkiiinnnn’ the whole way through!!!
davidopoulos – “whatever did happen to Philvis”
I haven’t gone away, you know. ;)
I do have considerably less free time on account of a tiny ginger man who came into my life. I thought being a Dad would be all about high fives and cigars. I was wrong!
But, Philvis returns. (thumbsup)
If that’s Philvis, I’ll eat my Bunnet, battered of course, and served as a garnish with roast swan.
I was reading some of Philvis’ contributions from 2011 at lunch. Spooky.
Hiya Philvisreturns. Are you a hun?;)
Ernie
Although I find it disturbing that someone would post under your moniker, does the ‘Jaws’ post now mean that your bite is worse than your bark?
Could this be true?
Downing of flight M17 a false flag attack ??
It seems the airliner was shot out of the sky by 2 Ukrainian jet fighters. Pilots cockpit riddled with machine gun fire from both sides of the plane.
Philvis @1351
Lennon gets the blame for everything :)
Philvis returned. Prepare the fatted calf!
jamesgang
13:46 on
9 September, 2014
=====================
Answer your own question then? I gave you mine.
Geordie Munro
13:53 on 9 September, 2014
BRILLIANT!!!!! :))))
philvisreturns
13:44 on 9 September, 2014
Welcome back.
I blame Thatcher and Blair in equal measure for the mess we find ourselves in. The nats are just hyenas round the carcase.
I’ve always thought that for me Celtic was more of an imagined community, in the Benedict Anderson sense, than Scotland any country could be.
So I would support your call for secession.
Philvis…where have you been?
TBB@13.40
Helpful, yes, but a bit wishy washy.
You claimed that the impression you formed, that ernie was a caricature figure (Is a caricature figure really “not quite human”? Does a caricature need to “have an agenda”?), was communicated to you half by the impression you took and half by the impression ernie communicated to you (and now you claim many others).
I think you over-estimate ernie’s contributions to that imagined process. He has not invaded your mind and persuaded you to believe he was a caricature because that is how he wished to be perceived. I fear you should take more than 50% of the responsibility for the views you develop and advance.
After all, we would not want to think that a prominent Yes voter was failing to take self-responsibility and was blaming the formation of his views on some English basturk of a caricature, now would we?
Remember, the Yes campaign is made up of a younger, more vital, passionate, confident, fearless, handsome, athletic, tolerant, intelligent, and psychologically unflawed race of people as has ever walked the earth since the days of The Fianna.
At least, that is the impression they “convey” to me.
And, apart from those virtues, they are modest and humble too.
Because, instead of dazzling me, as a lesser being surely would be by these virtues, they send out real life emissaries to meet me who happen to have the exact same views but are much less prepossessing, intelligent, youthful and perfect, than their writings would have suggested.
One thing I can’t get my head round is the glee some Yes voters are taking from the panic evident from the Westminster parties.
It’s a very balck and white view to take that if they are panicking about losing Scotland then Independence must be a good idea.
This will have an adverse effect (at least initially) on the whole of the UK. It will lead to a period of political and economical instability for the UK as a whole, although the job losses will probably be restricted to Scotland.
If folk genuinely feel there will be benefits in the long, long term which will outweigh the initial pain then fine. They are making an informed choice and are willing to take the risk.
If people are voting Yes to “get it up the English” and think we will be a land of milk and honey after a few years then they will be faced with a rude awakening in the event of Yes winning.