I enjoy Roddy Forsyth’s articles and broadcasts but I’m staggered at today’s article in The Telegraph. The initial headline read “Scottish clubs fear bankruptcy if Rangers are stripped of titles for tax avoidance”, but was amended to “SPL (sic.) clubs fear they will be hurt financially themselves if Rangers stripped of titles”.
Justification for this claim lies with the fact that clubs who lost a cup final to Rangers during their tax evasion (not avoidance) era, may have to pay a win bonus to players, which would be enough to tip them into bankruptcy.
These clubs would, we are told, prefer to sit tight as runners up, than be awarded a cup win. One chairman told Roddy, “Celtic might be able to afford that but nobody else could”.
Nobody else could afford a win bonus, so let’s not impose the unwelcome burden of winning on them! Consider what that makes supporters of these clubs!
Another chairman told Roddy, “my view is that the EBT scheme was questionable and maybe even reckless from the start but they were given expert advice and they acted on it”. “Questionable”, “reckless”, I think the word you’re looking for is illegal. Paul Baxendale-Walker’s expert advice was only one aspect of his flamboyant commercial undertakings.
Documentation was also hidden from HMRC, the SFA and SPL, and as ‘Mr Black’ told the Tax Tribunal, the ruse was designed to recruit better players. Who win more trophies.
Falkirk, Queen of the South, Dundee, St Mirren, Dundee United, Motherwell and Ayr United all lost finals to an EBT-fuelled Rangers, as well as Celtic, of course. Let’s hear from any of them who don’t want the matter formally examined. And let the door slam on their backside on the way out of competitive sport. Forget what’s happening in Russia, this is going on TODAY in Scotland!
If any of these clubs are campaigning for Rangers to keep their EBT trophies, it’s important their fans know about it. Roddy doesn’t suggest his two chairmen-sources come from any of these clubs, in fact, he describes them as “SPL” chairmen, the former name for our top flight.
So who are they?
Celtic, Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hearts can all be excluded from consideration. Think what you like about any of these clubs, but I cannot imagine any of their chairpersons considering this nonsense. Which leaves:
Kilmarnock. Michael Johnston is no longer chairmen, that role is fulfilled by Jim Mann.
Partick Thistle: David Beattie.
Motherwell: Brian McCafferty.
Inverness: Kenny Cameron.
Dundee: Bill Colvin.
Hamilton: Les Gray.
Ross County: Roy MacGregor.
St Johnstone: Steve Brown.
To the horror of Accies fans, in 2012 Les Gray said “SFL clubs should not be put in the position to vote on something which may destroy Scottish Football”. I wonder what Les is saying off the record now.
The Brown family have chaired St Johnstone through many issues, but their fans were off the mark quickly in 2012 to let Steve know their thoughts the last time Scottish football faced a decision to follow the rules, or not.
Roy MacGregor bristled with irritation when others tried to influence him in 2012. He has a reputation of knowing his own mind.
I don’t know anything about Bill Colvin, Kenny Cameron, Brian McCafferty, David Beattie or Jim Mann, but I suspect the names of both Roddy’s chairmen are on this page.
You’ll never read a better insight into why corruption was allowed to fester in our game than the glimpse available in today’s Telegraph, or that it remains endemic. Scottish football cannot be a comfortable haven for lawbreaking.
Maryhill Foodbank
Remember, there’s a Christmas toy collection for Maryhill Foodbank at Wild Cabaret, THIS Saturday, 14 November, from midday to 4:30. Families who don’t have money for food don’t have money for Christmas toys. If you have something you can donate, drop it in. There’s mulled wine and mince pies on the go.
You’ll find Wild Cabaret at 18 Candleriggs (0141 552 6165).
625 Comments- Pages:
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Surely the clubs awarded trophies retrospectively should be given the prize money to help pay the bonuses?
TonyDonnelly
I know what you are saying. But Celtic don’t actually have to make a statement to , erm, make a statement.
A strongly worded leak to the MSM will ensure that everyone knows the club is not amused, and is expecting action on this matter, whilst at the same time preserving the due process of appeals timetables.
I think it’s important that the fans – and other clubs and their fans – are in no doubt about how Celtic feel. (Assuming the Celtic board feel as we all do).
Scanned the rags in Morrisons,another muttonhead,Andy Devlin says Ashley v The huns in court ‘could cost Scottish football a fortune….’.Trying to widen any sympathy net,and look as if they are interested in every club,not just their favs.They are getting more desperate by the paragraph.
Are we actually going to agree on who wins the mint sauce award and get a trophy sent out?
RODDY’S comments make sense if you live in HAGHILL and drink in the LOUDEN ,or you live in BEARSDEN and would rather live in HAGHILL and drink in the LOUDEN.
Evening Times article Thursday 14th February 2013:
“Reports last April, in the wake of the club slipping into administration, spoke of a £140m debt mountain at Rangers, with 276 institutions and people being owed money.
This figure included a sum of £75m which the club would be liable if they lost the Big Tax Case.
The club’s unsecured creditors, who were owed more than £55m, included more than 6000 fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats”.
So the CLUB slipped into Administration.
The CLUB would be liable if they lost the Big Tax Case.
The CLUB’S creditors were owed more than £55m.
The 6000 fans who bought debenture seats became creditors, and lost their seats.
Now, surely if you are watching the same club, you would have kept your debenture seat? You didn’t pay money for a seat to watch the COMPANY playing football, you watch the CLUB playing football. So if it’s the same CLUB then you would think they would keep your seat? No?
The report goes on…
“When Murray still owned the club my dad bought a debenture seat in the stadium’s club deck for £1500. It’s really a seat for life, and you get your name on the back.
“Back in the 70s he also bought 10 shares at £10, an investment of £100. That then was diluted to a penny a share under Murray.
“In his will he left his debenture seat to my oldest son, and his other four grandkids got shares.
“But all of these investments disappeared when the club went into administration.”
“My dad’s seat has gone now, though we’ve never really been told anything in writing.
“It’s obviously not a huge sum of money, but from my dad’s point of view it was really just something to remember him by, and it’s been wiped out.”
BOOM!
Different Company? Yes, most definitely
Different Club? Yes, most definitely
TIMALOY29 on 12TH NOVEMBER 2015 1:23 PM
Are we actually going to agree on who wins the mint sauce award and get a trophy sent out?
A very competitive field already,so much so that the IOC are taking interest ,convinced there are illegal drugs at work…………
tks Bobby Evans….Oscar Jane wins ! lead from start to finish…
Who’s FFin’ paranoid?:
“Is it Lord ‘Season ticket at Celtic’ Doherty that decides the outcome?”
——
“Lord Doherty: ‘How would you define the club in legal terms?’ ”
——
“Is the judge taking the p*ss with that question?”
——
“Certainly reads like it.”
——
“He is an Earl Haig, what do you expect?”
——
“It did appear obvious, but didn’t want to speculate.”
——
“Lord Doherty: ‘there are two arguments. It could be that the club is a club; or that it is a limited company’
Contradicting himself a bit there.”
——
“Sounds to me as if this Lord is trying to stoke up the club and company debate
He is taig watch him like hawk he is At it here”
TIM MALONE WILL TELL on 12TH NOVEMBER 2015 1:18 PM
Any analogy needs to include that the higher up the tree you go the more qualified it becomes. Officially.
HH
Tim Malone Will Tell on 12th November 2015 1:18 pm
The next time BFDJ rots out that the Huns have won two ties and HMRC have won one – maybe someone could gently point out that the better analogy is that it’s a Cup competition, not a League – and that Sevco have just been knocked out.
I am sure that following the embarrassing bit of “dead air” while his wee brain works overtime – he might actually get the point.
—————————————————————
Excellent! Also – accurate.
“Lord Doherty: ‘there are two arguments. It could be that the club is a club; or that it is a limited company’
The club is a club and a limited company.
Boabby Evans-7/2 cheers
Inverness Caly Thistle make a record profit :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34800109
#Armageddon
Oscar Jane wins easy hopefully a good few of us had it on , might come in handy if we are to join winning captains & contribute to the downfall of the sfa, I know we are all sick of being treated unfairly
“The club is also likely to be valued at more than its current £41 million whenever the global recession retreats.”
Roddy Forsyth, 2010
The man is a clown!
!!Bada Bing!! on 12th November 2015 1:29 pm TIMALOY29 on 12TH NOVEMBER 2015 1:23 PM
Are we actually going to agree on who wins the mint sauce award and get a trophy sent out?
A very competitive field already,so much so that the IOC are taking interest ,convinced there are illegal drugs at work…………
——————————————————————————————
I think we need to set up a voting system first.
The field is enormous!
I am disgusted at the shortsightedness of asking for asterisks being placed beside the glorious gers’ titles…
Surely, we should have an entire team working on a giant piece of ASCII befitting their cheating, devious, corrupt ways???
No need to thank me lads I am just glad it. won don’t like the pressure of good Tim’s losing their hard earned cash through me
Surely Jim Traynor will be awarded a lifetime achievement award
In 1909 the cup was withheld by the SFA after a riot broke out following a replay between Rangers and Celtic. The first match was drawn 2–2 and the second 1–1.
So there has been a precedent, no actual winners.
As for the League, if every beat them 3-0 the results should be tabulated and the winning side derived from thee, even if it wisnae us.
It’s a mad,mad,mad,mad world!
Lennie Pike: *Everybody* has to pay taxes!- Even businessmen, that rob and steal and cheat from people everyday, even *they* have to pay *taxes*!
GlassTwoThirdsFull on 12th November 2015 1:38 pm “The club is also likely to be valued at more than its current £41 million whenever the global recession retreats.”
Roddy Forsyth, 2010
The man is a clown!
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Surely by their own logic, “the club” can;t be worth anything? The company might be worth something – but not much by all accounts.
Is see SSN have Warbiola on the new Fulham Head Coach 5 man short list.
Re previous post – Something like this, but less subtle:
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██╔════╝ ██║ ██║██╔════ ██╔══██╗ ╚══██╔══╝██╔════╝
██║ ███████║█████╗ ███████║ ██║ ███████╗
██║ ██╔══██║██╔══╝ ██╔══██║ ██║ ╚════██║
╚██████╗ ██║ ██║███████╗██║ ██║ ██║ ███████║
╚═════╝╚═╝ ╚═╝╚══════╝╚═╝ ╚═╝ ╚═╝ ╚══════╝
Damn it. Damn it to hell.
ASCII art worked fine on the old blog. I’m flouncin’…
Tontine
I agree but also – in the years they didn’t win the league all their results need to be 0-3 even if that means someone else other than celtic won the league
It could also throw up a scenario where someone got relegated when they should not have
All of that should not prevent the truth
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/playing-catch-up-on-the-rifc-accounts/
My name is canamalar and I am a chairman
Chairmans anonymous helped me overcome this terrible addiction
I wonder if any of Forsyth’s chairmen are from any of the five clubs that would go bust if “Rangers” didn’t get into one of the top two leagues in 2012…..?
TBJ…,
Only the rotten mob could have been relegated every time
TIMALOY29
We could have the Donner Kebab award for lifetime achievement….
and maybe the Shepherds Pie for best “cover up” ?
DAVIDOPOULOS @1:53 PM
that post made more sense than Roddy Forsyth’s article!
:-)
Barrach Obampot
It’s true that I have always prided myself on my incredibly low standards.
Roddy Forsyth didn’t so much let his mask slip as remove it completely a la Darth Vader to reveal he’s just an ugly, lying Hun like the rest of them.
What an embarrasing article for a grown man to write.
What pathetic straw-clutching, speciouis supposition.
What a HUN.
Haven’t heard from Bournesouprecipe for a few days,hope all is well HH
TIMALOY29 on 12TH NOVEMBER 2015 1:48 PM
Surely Jim Traynor will be awarded a lifetime achievement award
Traynor would get his own pen……….works on a couple of different levels that one…..
Gary67
Now wouldn’t that be hilarious….!!!