My attention was drawn to the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO) blog yesterday, also covered by Joe O’Rourke on the Association site. SCVO Director of Pubic Affairs, John Downie, writes about the “proposed bill on sectarianism” but seems to get muddled in his role as a director of SCVO and using SCVO resources to speak as a Rangers fan; in this instance blaming Catholic schools for sectarianism. How ironic.
Downie writes:
“We’ve previously seen Rangers fans outraged by Celtic goalie Artur Boric crossing himself during games but less bothered – obviously – by about our own players (like Vladimir Weiss last season) doing the same thing.”
“Our own players”! Is SCVO some closed shop where they talk about Artur Boruc as a “Celtic goalie” and Vladimi Weiss as one of our “own”?
So far, so disturbing, but Downie then uses the article to ride to the rescue with:
“The solution:
Personally, as someone who grew up in the East End of Glasgow and lives in the west of Scotland, I agree with some of what Conservative MSP John Lamont says. In my opinion one key causes of sectarianism is Scotland continuing to have separate denominational and non-denominational schools.”
So, if only we didn’t have Catholic schools, players like Artur Boruc and “our” Vladimir Weiss would be able to cross themselves free of harassment. Bizarrely, Downie’s article is subtitled “treating the symptoms not the causes”. I don’t think he was trying to suggest it’s best to treat the symptoms.
The cause of intolerance is not differences in ethnic, religious or sexuality, it is ignorant bigots. It is ludicrous to suggest tackling intolerance by assimilating people into some mono-culture. It’s downright dangerous to blame a minority for intolerance of, and by, them, a sentiment that will only fan the flames of hatred.
The European Examiner reports that various politicians have called for Mr Downie’s removal but SCVO chief exec, Martin Sime, apparently sees nothing wrong in SCVO running a blog discussing one of “our” Rangers players and the “Celtic goalie”, while simultaneously blaming educationally successful faith schools for sectarianism. SCVO has offered a metaphorical No Surrender to resignation calls.
A brief comment for those who don’t live in Scotland…. Attitudes like this once prevailed but are harder to find these days. We are a modern, progressive, society, for the most part.
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I don’t know.
You come onto CQN just to find out where Broonie should be played-
and all you get is, “Does God exist.”
I see on the fishul site that the Dunf (H) game due to be played on 17th March has been brought forward to Wed 22nd Feb, almost a month earlier.
Doesn’t sound right, plus it will mean we will have played 1 more game than the Orcs for almost a month, more pressure on them (if we win it)?
thecat
Still sharpening your claws on the SFA?
celticinthesun
Sorry but is your problem with religion per se or just catholic education?
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:29
I think that is a well made point.
I was inferring that this presumption in Scotland does us no favours but abroad it does.
I too take great pride in telling people we are not a club inclusive to anyone and also educate them that are rivals were for a very long time. Soon people will ask who are Rangers?
LB
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:17
Hamiltontim, I don’t want to airbrush anything from our history. I simply feel that all association with religion hurts the club I support.
………..
Two things
1. Those two sentences contradict each other
2. To quote an old song not been sung at CP for a long time “SPOT, SPOT THE LOONIE!”
philvisreturns says:
“Inquisitors were doing bad things in the name of their faith…..”
There’s nothing worse than being accused of heresy on 3 counts
– heresy by thought
– heresy by word
– heresy by deed
– heresy by action
… 4 counts
A Devon town council acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said before meetings, the High Court has ruled.
Action was brought against Bideford Town Council by the National Secular Society (NSS) after atheist councillor Clive Bone complained.
Mr Justice Ouseley ruled the prayers were not lawful under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972.
However, he said prayers could be said as long as councillors were not formally summoned to attend.
The judgement was being seen as a test case which could affect local councils across England and Wales.
Mr Justice Ouseley ruled the prayers as practised by Bideford Town Council had been unlawful because there was no statutory power permitting them to continue.
The NSS, which said prayers had no place in “a secular environment concerned with civic business”, argued the “inappropriate” ritual breached articles 9 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which protect an individual’s right to freedom of conscience and not to face discrimination.
Árd Macha at 15:40
An bhfuil tú ag foghlaim leat?
Nil me ag foglaim liom.
Stopped as I have been encouraged to do a masters at work so thats taking up a lot of spare time this year. Hope to get back to it in a year or so.
Mort
ok – it’s funnier yMichael Palin – not to mention unexpected
hoopeddreams says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:33
I don’t know.
You come onto CQN just to find out where Broonie should be played-
and all you get is, “Does God exist.”
=================================================
Don’t be silly, of course she does! :-)
hamiltontim
All right, then. Answer me this:
Does Gordon Smith exist?
Celtic_First says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:45
Fraser Gerard Forster born 17th March in our centenary year…
———————————————————————–
Bhoy does that make me feel old.
jocky bhoy – I don’t think I’ve been banging on about Muslims at all. In fact, I hadn’t intended to make any direct comment about that religious group, I was commenting about what I feel is a marked difference in language and tone that Richard Dawkins uses when he addresses different religions.
However, one poster – no doubt well intentioned – decided to take me to task for telling hateful facts. I think he hoped to muddy the waters by pretending that some religious groups aren’t more likely to kill you for offending their faith, so here we are.
Happy to clear that up. (thumbsup)
THank God I’m no a hypocrite – no like the rest of youse!!!
hamiltontim
Religion should be kept out of schools.
However, if it the decision was made to do so in Scotland it would send the wrong message to those who are victim to anti – irish hatred in Scotland whilst encourage those that display it.
hoopeddreams says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:39
hamiltontim
All right, then. Answer me this:
Does Gordon Smith exist?
====================================================
Why of course she does. She’ll be wrapping my chips and serving me Equi’s ice cream later this evening :-)
Ian Crocker hasn’t made his position clear on Catholic Schools, and until he does I have no view on the matter.
AC MIlan 5 Man city 3 mext up Real Madrid v the Hoops mon the hoops
Deniabhoy
Here is the final sentance from that piece of journalism about the accused R====== goalkeeper.
“He has been a member of the Old Firm club since leaving school.”
So there is a club called Old Firm apparently operating in the Glasgow area.
MSM are crap! Long Live the New Media!
HH
RWE CSC
I have been a Celtic supporter longer than I have been a catholic.Two of the best decisions I have made in my life and it does not hurt a bit.
philvisreturns: 10 February, 2012 at 16:41
“I think he hoped to muddy the waters by pretending that some religious groups aren’t more likely to kill you for offending their faith, so here we are.”
Then they are only doing what Christians have done before them.
celticinthesun says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:41
hamiltontim
Religion should be kept out of schools.
=======================================================
What are your reasons for this?
I see that you’ve argued that it is wrong but why?
greenjedi says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:52
quonno says:
Only just picked up your comment.
If only the ‘Right’ school syndrome was confined to the St. Al’s and Hutchie brigades.
Unfortunately, it all too often manifests itself within the state school Catholic and Non Dom alike.
Actually thought of nothing else but attending either of the above.
Another aspect of the above that got up my nose were members of the teaching profession who were quite happy to draw salaries from the state system and convert them into fees for the above type of institutions.
I believe in the god ZHENG ZHI
RalphWaldoEllison-is Neil Lennon Season 2011-12 @14:21,
Thanks for the Comment and the Background – Good piece.
I read an article you may be interested in (can’t find it at the moment), about poor Irish Families in Scottish Parishes in early 1920s – Just after the establishment of the Free State and their financial burden on the community, they basically wanted to ship them back from whence they came – if I can find it I’ll post a link.
Looks like I owe an apology to John Downie and the SVCO as they did indeed post my comments – it would be interesting to get a reply.
…but Ian Crocker says that them bhoys who go to them posh schools – whether Hutchie or St Als – reach the age of 18 with silly haircuts, funny accents and questionable taste in ‘Canterbury of New Zealand’ trackie bottoms.
Steinreignedsupreme says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:45
philvisreturns: 10 February, 2012 at 16:41
“I think he hoped to muddy the waters by pretending that some religious groups aren’t more likely to kill you for offending their faith, so here we are.”
Then they are only doing what Christians have done before them.
——–
Maybe they just believe in their book more than you do in yours Philvis?
Steinreignedsupreme – Then they are only doing what Christians have done before them.
Again, interesting, but irrelevant whataboutery, unless we really have entered some sort of time warp and gone back to the Middle Ages, in which case, here is my frowny face again:
>:-(
For you see, I’m not all that concerned about what people did hundreds of years ago, I’m a bit more concerned about now. (thumbsup)
Philvis. We are playing whak-a-mole. Currently the christianity mole is down, while the islam mole is up. So the approach to the two is different.
No doubt if the Christians get all bloodthirsty again, the likes of Dawkins will be more circumspect towards them.
But both are moles, is the key point, and whacking is required if any of us are to have nice flat grass.
celticinthesun – Maybe they just believe in their book more than you do in yours Philvis?
Why, what does their book tell them to do?
Enlighten us. (thumbsup)
Lennon n Mc….Mjallby says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:21
This is irony of course. Then you need to be a little more extreme so that some folk don’t think you are being serious.
Quizzler – Absolute nonsense.
Christianity is the foundation of our civilisation.
All of our laws, our liberties, and our rights are derived from it. (thumbsup)
A letter in today’s Guardian about anti Irish actions by the Mayour of London:
“Over the years a range of individuals and organisations have worked positively in London to tackle myths, ignorance and prejudice about the Irish community. Yet in this week’s New Statesman, Boris Johnson attacks a major, mainstream, Irish community event, the annual St Patrick’s Day dinner, as “lefty crap”, falsely claiming it was “£20,000 on a dinner at the Dorchester for Sinn Féin”. The fact is that the annual St Patrick’s Day event was a self-financing community event attended by a wide range of Irish actors, politicians from many parties, community figures and celebrities, including Bob Geldof, the Irish ambassador, TV and radio presenter Dermot O’Leary and actress Pauline McLynn.
“When Boris Johnson cancelled the annual St Patrick’s Day dinner in 2009 there was widespread disbelief about his decision. His remarks this week reveal what lay behind that decision. Many Londoners will be disturbed by the mayor of London’s contemptuous remarks about a community which has given, and continues to give, so much to our capital city.
“These views belong to a time we all hoped had been consigned to the long and distant past.
“Richard Corrigan Restaurateur and chef, Adrian Dunbar Actor, Vernon Coaker MP Shadow secretary of state for Northern Ireland, Stephen Pound MP Shadow Northern Ireland minister, Conor McGinn Chair, Labour party Irish Society, Gerry Ryan Chair, London Irish Labour councillors, Shelagh O’Connor Irish community activist, Siobhan McDonagh MP, Emily Thornberry MP, Billy Hayes General secretary, CWU, Richard Murphy Chartered accountant, Tax Justice Network, Christine Quigley London Labour assembly list candidate”
CelticResearch
Craig whyte has been ripped a new one by the sheriff in the tixway case. Unreliable witness.
Tweeted 6 minutes ago
STILL 0 O
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BBCchrismclaugChris McLaughlin
Daniel Cousin’s agent tells me the striker has signed for #Rangers until the end of the season. Will arrive in Scotland tomorrow.
Stairheedrammy says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:29
There is no, I repeat NO such thing as secular education in Scotland at present. Being a lapsed Catholic I agreed to send my son to a “secular” school- allowing him to decide his religion when able. Within his school he attends daily assemblies where local C of S ministers preach, he attends Carol and Thanksgiving services at various local C of S churches, local C of S ministers participate in school activities and Waldo Smith even presents the end of year prizes. Dont let them kid you- they want to integrate us by turning us into them, not by accepting the difference. What has this attempted brainwashing done to my boy- he’s a bigger Celtic fanatic than me, happy to stick it to them at every opportunity
======================
Worth retweeting if y’all’d forgive the us of…
Quizzler
With respect if you’re going to attack Christianity at least have some understanding of it’s place in history before you do.
This isn’t the magic roundabout and every faith takes a turn.