My attention was drawn to the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO) blog yesterday, also covered by Joe O’Rourke on the Association site. SCVO Director of Pubic Affairs, John Downie, writes about the “proposed bill on sectarianism” but seems to get muddled in his role as a director of SCVO and using SCVO resources to speak as a Rangers fan; in this instance blaming Catholic schools for sectarianism. How ironic.
Downie writes:
“We’ve previously seen Rangers fans outraged by Celtic goalie Artur Boric crossing himself during games but less bothered – obviously – by about our own players (like Vladimir Weiss last season) doing the same thing.”
“Our own players”! Is SCVO some closed shop where they talk about Artur Boruc as a “Celtic goalie” and Vladimi Weiss as one of our “own”?
So far, so disturbing, but Downie then uses the article to ride to the rescue with:
“The solution:
Personally, as someone who grew up in the East End of Glasgow and lives in the west of Scotland, I agree with some of what Conservative MSP John Lamont says. In my opinion one key causes of sectarianism is Scotland continuing to have separate denominational and non-denominational schools.”
So, if only we didn’t have Catholic schools, players like Artur Boruc and “our” Vladimir Weiss would be able to cross themselves free of harassment. Bizarrely, Downie’s article is subtitled “treating the symptoms not the causes”. I don’t think he was trying to suggest it’s best to treat the symptoms.
The cause of intolerance is not differences in ethnic, religious or sexuality, it is ignorant bigots. It is ludicrous to suggest tackling intolerance by assimilating people into some mono-culture. It’s downright dangerous to blame a minority for intolerance of, and by, them, a sentiment that will only fan the flames of hatred.
The European Examiner reports that various politicians have called for Mr Downie’s removal but SCVO chief exec, Martin Sime, apparently sees nothing wrong in SCVO running a blog discussing one of “our” Rangers players and the “Celtic goalie”, while simultaneously blaming educationally successful faith schools for sectarianism. SCVO has offered a metaphorical No Surrender to resignation calls.
A brief comment for those who don’t live in Scotland…. Attitudes like this once prevailed but are harder to find these days. We are a modern, progressive, society, for the most part.
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RobertTressell – Is it not the parents responsibility to educate their children in the faith? Leaving it to others seems a little lazy! Removing Catholic Schools doesn’t remove the ‘right’ to educate children in faith.
Effectively it does.
And the parents are the ones with the most invested in the system, why shouldn’t it reflect their wishes? (thumbsup)
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:12
This is the only fly in my Celtic supporting ointment. In all other aspects Celtic embody those human qualities I hold most dear.
But the sooner we distance the club from ‘faith’, the better in my opinion.
==================================
Would you also prefer if the club ‘distanced’ itself from its Irish roots?
Would you prefer that the club ‘distanced’ itself from Jock Stein?
Would you prefer that the club ‘distanced’ itself from Lisbon67?
Would you prefer that the club ‘distanced’ itself 9iar?
These people and events are as much a part of our history as the Catholic Church/faith.
Ridiculous comment to make.
philvisreturns says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:29
So am I. Long live Catholic schools, long live Protestant schools, long live secular schools (are there any in Scotland? Really?) now how do we solve the problem of sectarianism?
celticinthesun – Can’t they do that at home?
Can’t secularists keep it at home? (thumbsup)
Jeg er Neil Lennon-Greeninbingley – Criticising Christians is one of the safest things you can do in the world.
Criticising Islam opens oneself up to an above-average chance of being subjected to violence. (thumbsup)
Once again we hear that Catholic schools are the cause of Scotland’s bigotry. How comforting that must be for the real bigots. There are Catholic schools all over the world but only in Scotland do they cause bigotry. What evidence does Mr. Downie provide for his claim? The evidence is probably none as there is none. In fact such evidence as does exist shows that Catholic schools have a positive influence on social and community relations. One would have expected that a Rangers’ supporter like him would have a better understanding of bigotry and intolerance.
Dipped in to see if there is any news and, bam, it’s the school topic again. Too serious an issue when there is so much to be jovial about. Have any papers or tv stations had a dig at the huns for imposing a media blackout today? Has the marble staircase been reinforced for the arrival of Cousins? Has he been seen yet? Keep it light Bhoys, it’s Friday and I want more comic relief.
Was on oddschecker for some prices for tomorrow,(un)sporting bet going 9/2 for a Hooper hat-trick??
Have you ever been in the company or saw anyone who has bawled and shouted at a CoS building?
Answer is no from me.
Have you ever been in the company or saw anyone who has bawled and shouted at a RC building?
Answer is yes from me.
Would kids going to the same schools help? Nope. These people just don’t want us in Scotland. It’s that simple!
LB
Toohey’s New -will there be relegation, if there’s the Double Insolvency Event?
Karma dictates that Hearts goin’ bust saves Hibs from the drop.
Celticinthesun – are you not a God fearing man?
Religion is based on fear – you’ll go to Hell if you don’t believe. That’s why people covert on their death beds. Fear.
celticinthesun says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:40
murdochbhoy says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:25
tomtheleedstim says:
10 February, 2012 at 13:54
It never surprises me when lapsed catholics and even some ardent atheists find religion when they’re about to meet their death.
——————————————–
Murdochbhoy
Are these conversions based on fear? Fear of dying? Hedging their bets?
Not worth much if they are. I’m sure God sees through these converts for the chancers they are.
=====================================
Billy Connolly once said, “I’m a Communist by day and a Catholic by night!”
quonno says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:44
Have always thought it odd that many of those who consider it wrong to segregate kids on religious grounds, have no problem with segregating kids on the grounds of sending them to the socially ‘Right’ kind of school, where they will receive the ‘Right ‘ kind of education, from the ‘Right’ kind of teachers, in the company of the offspring of other ‘Right Minded’ parents.
I suppose that the above endless sentence betrays my own less than perfect Catholoc education.
……………..
You wanted to go to St Als or Hutchie didn’t you?
;-)
DeniaBhoy says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:48
Cousins is only coming because he heard there was going to be jelly and ice cream.
Hamiltontim.
All yer other things are fine, just the faith to go. Or alternatively, start believing in everything. It is the partiality to one particular brand of wrong that gets me down.
Sunday League football must have paid more than Doncaster Rovers. Poor wee lamb:
Spit the dog loses his car
!!Bada Bing!! Kano 1000 says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:50
My tip for this weekend is James Forrest first goal and 5-0.
Forrest is due a goal and scores at home. He will cause ICT problems with his pace. Thought he was back to his best on Wednesday and the way we are playing up front right now helps the supporting players get goals.
Good luck
LB
Robert Tressell
That is fair comment.
However!
In these new all encompassing non-Dom schools.
Do you feel that, in Scotland, a priest would be allowed the same standing at School Assembly on the Boards of Governors etc. as Protestant ministers enjoy today? Will Protestant/non religous/children of other ethnic religous backgrounds parents/children themselves/teachers etc. be happy to except such a situation and treat equally?
BTW. My Bhoy goes to a non-Dom east Ren school (placement) in order that I could provide him the best education. Religion has never been that important to me.
Fair treatment however is.
MWD
Apropos of nothing:
I went to a Catholic school, but my boys both attend a non-denominational school. All Irish medium schools in the north of Ireland are non-denominational as far as I know. Maybe a condition of receiving state funding.
I don’t think it matters an awful lot, but then I’m not very religious.
Slán.
Árd Macha
tooheys new at 14:36
On the Newco situation I presume we want Hibs to finish bottom as there is little chance that they will vote themselves into relegation whereas Dunfermline might have their are twisted.
Well, I certainly want Dunfermline to pick up 3 points tomorrow to assist them in staying up.
Mort
Philvis
Again. Not teaching religion is not the same as teaching atheism. I hope you can see the difference.
Forcing the religion of the minority (one in ten remember) on the majority seems unfair.
celticinthesun says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:55
‘Forcing the religion of the minority (one in ten remember) on the majority seems unfair.’
Whenever I see anyone quoting a statistic of one in ten on any subject I know they’re lying.
Just re-read my last post and it really doesn’t make sense.
That’s a Catholic education for yae. :-)))))
But yeezll git the gist.
MWD
A great man once said………….“It’s not religion that’s the problem – it’s the lack of religion!”
It’s never made more sense.
LB
Árd Macha at 14:54
All Irish medium schools in the north of Ireland are non-denominational as far as I know. Maybe a condition of receiving state funding.
I used to work in developing the policy for IM schools and we used the same approach as we did for Integrated schools. Technically they are non-denomination as they have no connection with CCMS (apart from a few special cases where the schools are technically part of a larger secondary) and are categorised as Grant-maintained so have all the same charachteristics in terms of funding as Catholic schools but aren’t controlled by CCMS.
There is actually one controlled (which we might call protestant, ie run by ELB) IM school in Belfast.
Mort
Celticinthe sun and Murdochbhoy
Your god sounds like an intemperate and intolerant parent.
Read the parable of the prodigal son, because if you have faith in that testament, the lesson is about love, forgiveness and acceptance.
Please note I said PRODIGAL and not Non-Denom :-)
HH
RWE CSC
Isn’t it weird how folks like Lorraine Kelly and Ally McCoist can call for the abolition of Catholic schools and everytime they or some other halfwit repeats it that this board tries to wring its hands to death.
If you don’t like catholic schools for your kids don’t send them there.
Glad to see he and others like him were “less bothered”, by a rangers playing blessing himself…….
I guess we should consider that an improvement!
As you say, its clearly having different schools that is the problem, and not the tolerance and indeed in some places, the promotion and encouragement of bigots, that might lead to problems in society.
Mort @ 12:54
Paul67 @13:03
Cheers guys
HH
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:53
Brother Walfrid was a Marist (Catholic) brother.
Should the club ‘distance’ itself from him?
Celtic was founded to provide for the poor of 3 Catholic parishes should the club ‘distance’ itself from that?
Livibhoy-With JF and Sami having a couple of weeks out,they have come back in fresh and fit.I don’t like too many changes in the team,specially a winning one but Neil seems to be getting the knack of putting out the right team for any game.
MWD – “Just re-read my last post and it really doesn’t make sense.”
I could use that as my sign-off message like Philvis’ thumbsup. Few of mine do.
I’m Neil Lennon (tamrabam) says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:59
Totally agree.
LB
1st time poster – hail hail
great article Paul. i’ve never understood why people who did not go to a catholic school have such a problem with them. i was brought up without a religion but also taught to respect other peoples faith. there is catholic schools all over the world but it only seems to be this part of the world that has a problem with them. the argument that if we all went to the same school would solve the problem is crazy.
“To be one, to be united is a great thing. But to respect the right to be different is maybe even greater”
cyber pint for the 1st person to name who said that.
Ernie
Only one in ten of those who do are liars.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6520463.stm
Ralph
I played the Prodigal son in school assembly and later with more gusto in real life.
Decent story. It’s not that guy who scares me though.
hamiltontim says:
Billy Connolly once said, “I’m a Communist by day and a Catholic by night!”
Do you think that millionaire and Laird Billy Connolly is still a communist, any time of the day?
Has anyone heard if the technical issue regarding Ibrahim has been resolved?
Heard about it earlier in the week but haven’t heard anything since.
HH
/Bish\o/p B
I believe everybody has the right to choose the school they want to send their children to as long as they don’t preach hatred agains others. I went to a catholic school and it didnt hurt me except for my hands and the back of my legs when I got the strap everyday.
Nowadays I like to describe myself as a dyslexic agnostic, you can always find me in the pub staring at my pint pondering “is there a Dog?”
Die Religion ist das Opium des Volkes CSC
Celtic to win 5-0 [ Samaras, Hooper, Ledley, Samaras, Brown [p]]