My attention was drawn to the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO) blog yesterday, also covered by Joe O’Rourke on the Association site. SCVO Director of Pubic Affairs, John Downie, writes about the “proposed bill on sectarianism” but seems to get muddled in his role as a director of SCVO and using SCVO resources to speak as a Rangers fan; in this instance blaming Catholic schools for sectarianism. How ironic.
Downie writes:
“We’ve previously seen Rangers fans outraged by Celtic goalie Artur Boric crossing himself during games but less bothered – obviously – by about our own players (like Vladimir Weiss last season) doing the same thing.”
“Our own players”! Is SCVO some closed shop where they talk about Artur Boruc as a “Celtic goalie” and Vladimi Weiss as one of our “own”?
So far, so disturbing, but Downie then uses the article to ride to the rescue with:
“The solution:
Personally, as someone who grew up in the East End of Glasgow and lives in the west of Scotland, I agree with some of what Conservative MSP John Lamont says. In my opinion one key causes of sectarianism is Scotland continuing to have separate denominational and non-denominational schools.”
So, if only we didn’t have Catholic schools, players like Artur Boruc and “our” Vladimir Weiss would be able to cross themselves free of harassment. Bizarrely, Downie’s article is subtitled “treating the symptoms not the causes”. I don’t think he was trying to suggest it’s best to treat the symptoms.
The cause of intolerance is not differences in ethnic, religious or sexuality, it is ignorant bigots. It is ludicrous to suggest tackling intolerance by assimilating people into some mono-culture. It’s downright dangerous to blame a minority for intolerance of, and by, them, a sentiment that will only fan the flames of hatred.
The European Examiner reports that various politicians have called for Mr Downie’s removal but SCVO chief exec, Martin Sime, apparently sees nothing wrong in SCVO running a blog discussing one of “our” Rangers players and the “Celtic goalie”, while simultaneously blaming educationally successful faith schools for sectarianism. SCVO has offered a metaphorical No Surrender to resignation calls.
A brief comment for those who don’t live in Scotland…. Attitudes like this once prevailed but are harder to find these days. We are a modern, progressive, society, for the most part.
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celticinthesun says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:03
‘53% identified themselves as Christian.’
BaggioRinaldi
You think by slipping in a line about cyber pints we’ll fail to notice that you’re a hun?
I myself used to be agnostic, but now I’m not so sure …
FF
ernie lynch says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:08
celticinthesun says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:03
’53% identified themselves as Christian.’
Ernie of the rest how many are Catholic and how many are Protestant atheists?
LB
Hamiltontim. No. Helping people is always cool.
I think walfrid would have helped poor of any persuasion, but not sure that is relevant.
Philvis
Thanks for the clarification.
Christianity and Islam each embrace both tolerance and intolerance, IMO, and it serves no purpose to set one faith up as a bastion of tolerance and paint the other as the opposite.
Maybe you could test out your theory on Christian tolerance in, say, the US midwest.
I mentioned Pascal in a post this morning. Here’s another wee snippet:
Imagine gambling on the existence of God. The expected value of such a bet can be described as follows:
(chance of God existing) x (what you win if He exists)+ (chance of God not existing) x (what you win if God doesn’t exist)
In effect, it’s 50:50 punt, a half chance. Either God exist, or He disnae.
So, what do you get out of the bet? Eternal happiness if your bet comes in, and nothing whatsoever if it doesn’t.
Well, in that case, the bet looks like (50% x eternal happiness) + (50% x nothing) = Eternal happiness
Seems like a good punt.
Of course, God may not like the creed or belief that you have assigned to him. He might be into some other Truth. There are many, many different religions after all.
Suppose there are 50 religions. The chance of backing the right one, in the 50% chance that God exists, is 1/50. So we need to rewite the outcome equation as:
(1% x Eternal happiness) + (99% x nothing) = Eternal Happiness.
It’s still a good bet on the grounds that you have a 1% chance of infinite happiness for ever and ever. Indeed, however small the chance of the existence of God, the smart punter will always back His existence because the reward of winning the bet are infinite.
Thank God I’m not a gambler….
Ernie.
“Hello, we’re from Christian Charity Tearfund (smiles) do you have time for a quick survey?”
murdochbhoy says:
10 February, 2012 at 14:25
tomtheleedstim says:
10 February, 2012 at 13:54
It never surprises me when lapsed catholics and even some ardent atheists find religion when they’re about to meet their death.
_______
Have you actually seen many examples of this death bed conversion ?
I am not questioning what you are saying, simply wondered if your experiences have been different from mine.
I have sat with a lot of people over the years who were on the point of death. I have never once known any man to change his espoused beliefs or disbeliefs at that point.
Good luck.
greenmaestro says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:04
hamiltontim says:
Billy Connolly once said, “I’m a Communist by day and a Catholic by night!”
Do you think that millionaire and Laird Billy Connolly is still a communist, any time of the day?
========================================
I don’t think he was a Communist when he said it :-)
philvisreturns says:
10 February, 2012 at 13:40
than pro-atheist.
Dawkins-style New Atheism is quite funny though.
He roars like a lion when it comes to Christianity, memorably describing the Pope as a “leering villain in a frock”.
When it comes to Islam, he squeaks like a mouse.
Dawkins will courageously insult the sort of nice, non-violent people who collect money for SCIAF or CAFOD or who do the flowers at their local Anglican Church, but he’s not so keen on insulting the sort of people who might hit back.
I generally enjoy your posts (truthfully) even tho’ I don’t always agree with them. However, the above is a blatant lie and slur on a man who always speaks his mind. Very recently he was on the Beeb expounding (not the same thing at all as squeaking) on the very topic you say on which he’s silent.
Try the “God Delusion” – you’ll never look back.
However, as I posted earlier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVNZFylTdo
BaggioRinaldi says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:02
Welcome…
Was it Bono?
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Baggio-MLK? You a hun?
TBB
“In effect, it’s 50:50 punt, a half chance. Either God exist, or He disnae.”
What about Thor, Allah, Budda, Zeus, Henrik Larsson, There are many Gods so it is not a 50/50 bet.
Also, that belief doesn’t sound too genuine. I’ll say I believe just in case.
It would take a Whyteisoursaviour type Gullible God to fall for that one.
On the question of Catholic Schools.If you feel you can go into bed,with the anti Catholic brigade,it says more about you than them
Butcher’s faint praise fro Celtic during his interview with the media this morning.
“Celtic, without doubt, are the best team in Scotland,” he said. (then he adds) “They’ve certainly got the best squad in Scotland.”
He couldn’t just say we were the best team, he had to then correct himself and back off.
Terry, we either are or are no,t in your opinion, the best team in Scotland.
See you tomorrow sir.
HH
RWE CSC
If an aetheist wrote about something who would believe it?
18% of Scotland’s population are regular churchgoers. That’s around 900,000 people.
According to a well known on-line encyclopedia 65% of Scots are Christian 3,250,000 people. and 19% are Catholic 950,000 people.
So we know that all the Catholics are regular church goers, that means that only 50,000 of the other Christians are regular church goers. Given the fervour and religious sensitivites shown by ranger fans then, 40,000 of these 50,000 must be rangers regulars.
Question is what team do these remaining 10,000 support?
remember 97.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
It always makes me laugh when I hear people say, “keep religion out of schools,” or, “you can teach religion at home.”
For one thing, education has always been at the heart of the mission of the Catholic Church. Virtually every European university that dates back to before the mid 16th Century was founded by the Catholic Church, including Glasgow, St Andrews, Aberdeen, Oxford and Cambridge. The Catholic Church was involved in education almost two thousand years before the modern nation state even existed. “Keep the state,” out of schools would be a far better mantra.
For those who say religion should be taught at home or in Church, you miss the point of a Catholic education. You assume that an education can ever be delivered in a vaccuum. There is no such thing as a value-free education. For instance, in biology lessons, would Catholics like their children to be taught that the foetus is a human being in the very first stages of development, or be told that it is simply a ball of cells that can be disposed of at your own convenience? The science supports the former view, but the secular-liberal-atheist view tends to the latter.
Children can be educated in a Catholic ethos, or in a secular-atheist ethos, or in a Muslim ethos or whatever. But wherever people are being educated, they are being educated in someone’s worldview.
Catholic parents, and even increasingly non-Catholic parents, rightly wish their children to be given a Catholic education, and as far as I can see, those who wish to abolish Catholic or faith schools simply want all children to be educated in their values.
celticinthesun
keep reading….
I’m Neil Lennon (tamrabam) says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:19
If an aetheist wrote about something who would believe it?
Sorry?
RalphWaldoEllison at 14:39
I cannot break the confidence, sorry. But it’s someone almost everyone on here will know by name.
TBB
What if God does exist and is just happy to accept anyone who try’s to live their life as honestly as decent good human beings as it is possible to be?
Or
If he/she/spirit/etc is not a mathematician?
MWD Mmmmmmm!
The Battered Bunnet says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:13
Albert Camus, who probably wasn’t as good a goalkeeper as either THG or FF, said ‘I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn’t, than live my life as if there isn’t and die to find out there is’.
Though presumable he would never find out there isn’t a God.
Jeg er Neil Lennon-Greeninbingley – Maybe you could test out your theory on Christian tolerance in, say, the US midwest.
Sure.
When Christians in the US midwest start killing people who convert away from their faith, or initiating pogroms against religious minorities in their midst, or executing people for being gay, or rioting in the streets and murdering people because someone somewhere published a cartoon they don’t like, I will be happy to point that out. (thumbsup)
St.Michael’s
that the foetus is a human being in the very first stages of development, or be told that it is simply a ball of cells that can be disposed of at your own convenience?
What school teaches that?
hamiltontim@ 14:52
I just got off the phone with God…
He says he has never heard of ye and to stop tellin’ other people what he thinks.
HH
assetmanager – I generally enjoy your posts (truthfully) even tho’ I don’t always agree with them. However, the above is a blatant lie and slur on a man who always speaks his mind. Very recently he was on the Beeb expounding (not the same thing at all as squeaking) on the very topic you say on which he’s silent.
Firstly, thank you.
Secondly, Dawkins called the Pope “a leering villain in a frock”.
Show me where he said something equally as offensive about a senior Islamic religious figure and I will happily revise my opinion of him. (thumbsup)
Chairbhoy, yes.
Árd Macha, I hear you.
murdochbhoy, curious indeed.
BontyBhoy, thanks.
Folly Folly, we’ll see.
RobertTressell, not sure what you mean, but if you’re offering to help re-write let me know.
BaggioRinaldi, thanks and welcome.
Philvis….
It is only recently that Christianity has been forced into meekness. They were worse than Islam currently is for most of the last 2 millennia. Surely you know this?
hamiltontim says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:01
It would appear that some think so.
Apparently we have to open to all, while distancing ourself from Catholicism, but singing songs in support of the IRA.
It’s a real balancing act!
BaggioRinaldi
Welcome aboard
HAIL HAIL
From the Grauniad, apols if posted elsewhere, guess it’s NL this lunchtime:
3.20pm: Here’s some news, though! Celtic are hoping to sort out a permanent deal for the most Rangers-minded-sounding Bhoy in history, goalkeeper Fraser Forster. Here’s Neil Lennon on his attempts to prise the impressive young man away from Newcastle United, and force him into the Euro 2012 picture for England while he’s at it:
We have had communication with his agent, I’ve had a chat with Fraser this morning and we hope we can get something sorted out in the near future.
You are never confident on these things but we have made our approach and told him how we see things and that we want him here.
I look at some of the other goalkeepers who have been involved in the England squad … I think Joe Hart is outstanding, I think he is clearly the England number one but the way Fraser is progressing … I wouldn’t want to throw him in too early, but the way he is playing, why not?
SPL goalkeeper chat, yes, it’s getting late. It’s later than you think.
The Trinity were planning a holiday. The Spirit, manifesting the creative part of the divine nature, was coming up with the ideas. “Let’s go to New York,” he suggested.
“No, no, no,” said the Father, “They’re all so liberated, they’ll spend the whole time calling me ‘Mother’ and it will just do my head in.”
So the Spirit sat back and thought. “I know, what about Jerusalem?” he said. “It’s beautiful and then there’s the history and everything.”
“No way!” the Son declared. “After what happened the last time, I’m never going there again!”
At this point, the Spirit got annoyed and went off in a huff. Sometime later he returned and found that the Father and Son had had a idea they both thought was excellent:
“Why don’t we go to Rome?” said the Son.
“Perfect!” cried the Holy Spirit. “I’ve never been there before!”
Philvis
There are still Christians killing peole just because they are gay.
In the name of God…
Oops just come in and see it’s a religious topic today.
Bless you father for what they are about to receive from the receivers.
Catch you all later, have a good one.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:32
I don’t think the Holy Spirit does sarcasm…
Quizzler – It is only recently that Christianity has been forced into meekness. They were worse than Islam currently is for most of the last 2 millennia. Surely you know this?
And the relevance of this is… what?
Have I fallen into a time tunnel and ended up in Celtic17thCenturyNews?
I’m interested in the world as it is now.
For the record, I frown on the intolerance of 18th century Puritans and medieval Inquisitors as well. If 18th century Puritans or medieval Inquisitors were doing bad things in the name of their faith, I would frown at it.
Here is my frowny face to prove it:
>:-(
(thumbsup)
tooheys new 14.27
Where did you here that bud.
HAIL HAIL