News that Dundee United will vote against allocating a place in next season’s SPL to Sevco confirms what we suggested yesterday, that sentiment has swung against the notion. Motherwell’s innovative idea of allowing fans (who have already expressed overwhelming opposition to the idea) a vote is further evidence that even hard-pressed clubs are prepared to make financially difficult decisions. Suggestions that the Motherwell board should grow a pair and take responsibility themselves have some merit.
Stewart Milne has denied BBC reports that Aberdeen have decided to vote against but I expect this is a matter of due process more than any genuine indecision.
There was a feeling this morning that matters could be brought to a head sooner than 4 July if enough clubs publicly declared against Sevco. This would suit Charles Green’s company as they would be able to prepare offers to Rangers players (who they are able to sign) knowing where they are likely to end up. If they are forced to wait until 4 July, Sevco will not know what squad requirements they will need for next season before making a decision on what Rangers players to offer employment to.
More than SPL football, Sevco need clarity. A rush to declare against them might seem harsh but it would be enormously beneficial rather than being forced to wait a further 12 days.
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He scores with the head!
If you are on twitter you may have been following the story of @Wee_Oscar as he has been fighting his battle against Neuroblastoma, a rare form of leukemia that affects young children. @Wee_Oscar has been taken to the hearts of many Celtic & Republic of Ireland supporters on twitter this last few months.
I love this tweet http://t.co/L6JFoWi1 sent from his hospital room on the day of the Republics first game at the Euros.
Message from Wee Oscar
Hello everyone, my name is Oscar! I’m 3 years old, and I’m fighting neuroblasto- ma, a very aggressive cancer that affects babies and little kids like me.
I need special treatment abroad that will give me the best chance of life and beating the cancer. It will cost me as much as £250,000!
Please can you help me?
Message from the Neauroblastoma Alliance UK
Brave Oscar has been fighting neuroblastoma since shortly after his 3rd birthday. Unfortunately it appears that his best chance of beating this frighteningly aggressive cancer lies in either America or Germany. Oscar’s potentially life-saving treatment could cost as much as £250,000—which is why he needs your help. Please make a donation or hold an event for Oscar—call Nikki on 020 8202 9065
to chat about fundraising. Please give Oscar a chance! For more information about Oscar and to donate please visit:
http://www.justgiving.com/OscarAppeal Text KNXY99 and your amount £3, £4, £5 or £10 to 70070
Wee Oscar’s appeal page http://www.justgiving.com/OscarAppeal
You can also get regular news updates on Wee Oscar by following his blog here http://oscarknox.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2012-05-20T23:04:00%2B01:00&max-results=3&m=1
Please, please make a small donation if you can and help give Wee Oscar the best possible chance of life.
and the foot
and a hat trick?
Where’s my first post?
Good afternoon Celts, I see D&P appointment will be investigated, the first of many investigations methinks…… tic toc..
HH
MWD nice wan!
HH to ye
HH to wee Oscar.
V
Bye Bye Rangers
Yo ho ho, off we go
What do you know, it’s nine in a row
Bye bye Rangers
Celtic’s on the ball again, on the way to make it ten
Bye bye Rangers
You can talk about your great defenders
Sing and shout about your No Surrender
But let us give you this wee tip
We’ll be there for the league and the cup
Rangers bye bye
Yo ho ho, off we go
What do you know, it’s nine in a row
Bye bye Rangers
Celtic’s on the ball again, on the way to make it ten
Bye bye Rangers
You can talk about your great defenders
Sing and shout about your No Surrender
But let us give you this wee tip
We’ll be there for the league and the cup
Rangers bye bye
But let us give you this wee tip
We’ll be there for the league and the cup
Rangers bye bye
Paul 67
Anything that’s beneficial to them is unbeneficial to me.
Paul67
If they are not in the SPL they are playing nowhere. Who says the SFL want them…
anyone just got an email about Green Brigade new website ?
is it pukka ?
A Pound of Flesh.
A restructuring of the leagues was one outcome I always thought a possibility because
a) it is needed
b) it meets the need to punish
c) it recognises commercial reality without giving it the upper hand over sporting integrity..
There will be arguments about which is best (2×14) suits me although I’ve not gone into the alternatives, however the criteria should be what is the best construct and THEN how does a Newco get in.
However there is a danger here for clubs and supporters holding the moral high ground that they will lose it if they are seen to be demanding more than a pound of flesh..
The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
The Merchant Of Venice Act 4, scene 1, 180–187
I appreciate some of the following are consequences rather than punishments but consider:
a) Rangers history is now so toxic and tainted they would be best to separate themselves from it and consign “dignity” to the same dustbin of history.
b) Rangers as was are stripped of titles won unfairly.
c) Newco cannot play in Europe for 3 years.
d) Most of the existing squad depart and they cannot sign similar either because they cannot afford it or accept the orginal Disciplinary sentence of no transfers.
e) They are barred from the SC for a season.
e) They are still saddled with paying off football debts including fines.
f) They are ordered to pay off small creditors up to a named value.
g) They are relegated to a lower division.
If all of these were to come about, the argument that they start at the very bottom will be portrayed as seeking more than a pound of flesh and the higher moral ground that gives the authority to demand justice will be lost.
I appreciate this may be unpalatable to some but in seeking more than a pound of flesh we risk becoming the very thing we despise.
Sean Fallon to unfurl Championship Flag, 5 days after his 90th birthday. Nice touch by club.
greenjedi on 22 June, 2012 at 11:49 said:
“Financially Celtic would make a lot more money with the new club in the SPL and we have all seen the evidence that the bottom line is their king.”
——————————————————————-
Greenjedi (from last thread) – may I ask what are your estimates that would illustrate this to be likely true?
Without a “Rangers” in the SPL or another club of similar resource, the probability of Celtic reaching the group stages of the Champions League grows enormously.
During the last 10 yrs the probability of Celtic winning the league has been about 50%. Scottish league Champions then either have entered the CL at the Group stages of qualified more often than not. Let us say for the sake of argument that we quality2 out of every 3 times we enter the pre-qualification for the CL. Let us say also that our chances of winning the SPL is now 90% from the previous 50% when a “Rangers” is present. Let us assume income per year from the CL if you reach the Group stages is £15m.
So now rather than the chances of CL income being 0.66 x 0.5 = 0.33 x £15m = £5m a year from CL.
If we assume we now have a 90% chance of winning the SPL without a “Rangers” then the odds are 0.9 x 0.66 = 0.6 x £15m = £9m a year from CL
Apologies to statisticians everywhere – I am just trying to make the point that the increased probability of CL money due to no “Rangers” would, I opine, far outweigh the financial benefit of having a “Rangers” in the SPL.
Is a “Rangers” in the SPL worth more than £4m to us? TV deal? There will always be one – the current one is rubbish by market value. Gate money? Well we may not get 14000 of them, but instead 2000 Dundee fans and perhaps more fans of other clubs now competing for European places. Sponsorship – apart from the beer on the shirts, we already do very well on our own with Nike. Merchandising – well I don’t buy Celtic stuff because of “Rangers” – well not the official stuff. Season books – up on last year apparently with no “Rangers” in existence.
Please provide your figures to rebuff this.
Thanks
HH
TLK
Dons director (Duncan?) interview on Clyde says that whilst they havent made a final decision on how they will vote, he says he is in the No camp, they need to be punished and they shouldn’t be allowed in SPL.
Whats the investigation count up to now? 8 or 9 with possibly more to come. Is it a scandal or a farce?
Paul67 – I see where you are coming from however I hold a contrary viewpoint. Sevco fans want to go to Division 3. They want to do it purely as a final GIRUY to the SPL as they think we will wither and die without them. That door is still open PR wise for Green and Sevco and him pulling the plug himself, with a well worded call to arms to the Sevco Hordes, could whoosh him down to Division 3 on a wave of popular support.
That door needs closed, they need kicked out rather than them choosing to walk the now inevitable path themselves.
They should be killed publicly prior to July 4th in my opinion.
I read the article and I remain upbeat even though various naysayers are praying that Lord Hodge’s investigation into the Duffers possible c.o.i will somehow delay the indie day vote on Trigger’s Broom.
I actually think there may be no vote at all as Green would be better off just rolling up his circus tent and looking for prey elsewhere.
As P.T. Barnum said,” There’s one born every day.”
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 22 June, 2012 at 12:32 said:
Shylock,ya bas.
Will had bon mots for everything.
Some kid.
saint stivs,
i got an e mail,haven’t looked at it yet
There is a phrase in nuclear physics; a shake. It’s origins are found in the Manhattan Project. It is literally a derivation of “two shakes of a lamb’s tail.”
In strictly technical terms, a shake is equal to ten nanoseconds – with a nanosecond being a billionth of a second. To understand the enormity of what this represents, consider that if a nonosecond could be “experienced” as a second, the second of which the one billion nanoseconds are made up would last some 37 years.
I first heard the term when reading a Tom Clancy novel, “The Sum of All Fears.” There is a chapter in that book called, I believe, “Three Shakes”, where he describes the detonation process of a nuclear bomb. The physics of the actual explosion are so complex it takes him four or five pages to outline them, and the description ends with the “creation” of a small ball of fire at the centre of the bomb, this being the precursor to all that will follow.
Clancy is very specific when he declares that at this point in time – some fifty “shakes” after the clock reaches zero – that there is no further activity in regards to the bomb unit itself. In a fraction of a second so slight it could not be measured in term the human body or mind can come to terms with in even the most basic sense, everything that was to happen has already happened ….
…. and all that remains is the dispersion of the physical forces set in motion.
Think on the Rangers crisis, and all that we have seen so far, in those terms for just a second, friends, because it dawned on me watching Sky Sports News earlier. We have had an unusual, and somewhat fortuitous, view through the bombcase. Time, for us, has shrunk. We are viewing the process nanosecond by nanosecond, and we have passed the point of detonation, the point where the bomb case itself has been breached by the expanding energy of the bomb …
But as yet, no physical effects are noticeable to the outside world.
In the novel, the bomb is inside a VCR taping unit, itself inside a van parked outside the Sky Dome Stadium in Denver. What we can see right now is a luminous ball of light and heat, which so far has not penetrated the external skin of the van. But the chain reaction is complete.
Rangers have suffered a ten point penalty in the league, and some indignity in being made a laughing stock. But their playing squad is intact. Their management team is still in place. Their stadium is still their own.
No actual damage – no real damage – has yet been done.
But the chain reaction is complete.
Think on that for a minute. Think on what is actually coming next. The nuclear example is actually a good one, but the truth of the matter is, right now that club is essentially untouched by these events. All the mock indignation, the suffering, the pain, the angst … and all of our joy, it has all taken place against the backdrop of a shambles. The real pain – the blinding flashing light followed by the all-consuming fireball – is still on its way. That’s a happy thought, isn’t it?
What happens next is the dispersion of the energy which has been unleashed.
Sit back and enjoy what’s coming next. That club is about to be … annihilated.
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 22 June, 2012 at 12:32 said:
A Pound of Flesh.
A good point. My fear, however is that the evil which exists at the heart of that club needs to be diminished as much as possible as, given time, it will surely grow again to menace us.
anche gli angeli on 22 June, 2012 at 12:35 said:
>>>
It’s a ‘scarfe’…..if you’ve ever seen one!
HH!
:-)
Paul67
The existing players will retain the contract terms Dodo FC could not afford so it is unlikely they will be offered the same terms although entitled to them under TUPE.
I would be surprised if any, never mind enough, that are of the requiired standard to play and beat most SPL clubs will remain. However I agree the quicker they know the standard of player needed for where they will play the better for them. Quite a few one year contracts will be the order of the day I suspect.
Once the shape and strength of the new squad become clearer then the sense of starting in a lower division might become much more apparent to both supporters and other SPL clubs.
James Forrest summing up the Hurt Locker that awaits :o)
James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on 22 June, 2012 at 12:38 said:
>>>
Great analogy!
Good to see you’ve regained your optimsm!
KTF & HH!
James. Excellent analogy. Brilliant piece of writing.
FPLG still on the phone greeting to Walter…
It was clear to everyone (just by perusing their published governance) that HMRC would reject the CVA, yet on voting day Charles Green still treated the news like the mortal blow which shatters the delicate heart of a trusting friend. His insistence that HMRC had said nothing, therefore it was reasonable for him to assume they would vote in favour was optimistic, to say the least.
He seems thick-skinned enough to ignore such portents, I therefore expect Green to carry this on until the vote. He’ll then feign betrayal and outrage at those clubs who “because they didn’t categorically tell him in person that they would be voting no, we had every reason to believe they would be voting yes”.
Saint Stivs on 22 June, 2012 at 12:32 said:
anyone just got an email about Green Brigade new website ?
is it pukka ?
**************
Dinnae ken, but i’ll fin oot fur ye!
HH
James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on 22 June, 2012 at 12:38 said:
You’re theory has a flaw. For the chain reaction to occur the density of neutrons must be above a certain density within a critical mass. The number of morons in Rangers is below that critical mass. However, throw in the rest of Scottish fitba and annihilation you indeed have.
RogueLeader:
Don’t trust the hun. When was the last time they ever told the truth. All this “we’d rather go to Div 3….” they are playing with your mind.
They are the peepil, they are preordained, which hun of any office and status has apologised?
Murray?
Ogilvie?
Smith?
Peat?
Souness?
Smith?
McCoist?
Bain?
Johnstone?
The only thing they are sorry about is that they got caught. And now they will twist every thought, every notion, every word. It is the way of the hun.
Aye Miki a scandalous farce or a farcical scandal!
The Lord Hodge one is potentially nuclear. M’lud knows that there has been dirty dealings going on with D@P and others. I am sure people will be getting the jail sometime in the not too distant future.
SonsOfErin on 22 June, 2012 at 12:45
One would have thought that HMRC’s previous refusals to settling out of court and rebuffing RFC’s settlement proposals of circa £10M (on 2 or 3 ocassions) would have been a clear enough indicator that they would not accept a xp in the £1 CVA.
Starryhope
RogueLeader – It’s in New Rangers’ long term interests to start life in the third division. They’ll have ample time to establish the new club on a sustainable footing and will earn credibility by getting to the top flight on merit.
Their new fans are likely to be more keen to see a winning New Rangers team build up a head of steam in the lower leagues than an impoverished NewClub struggling to rise above mid-table status in the SPL.
It’s also in Scottish football’s interest to salvage what remains of its credibility by not gerrymandering the league to do a sweetheart deal for the ghost of a club that cheated every other SPL member and indeed every taxpayer in the United Kingdom.
Charles Green’s interests are different though.
He needs to “flip” the newclub to an individual or consortium with real cash. He’s unlikely to have the money or the inclination to hang around for another three years, and the value of New Rangers drops considerably if they aren’t in the SPL or at least the first division.
The old media also needs Rangers in the top flight. Stories about NewHuns playing the NewFirm derby match against Clyde or trying to sign Montrose players aren’t going to shift any copies of the Daily Record.
(thumbsup)
Kitalba – Exactly my point, they are too dangerous to be left alive :)
Hehe yes indeed Margaret.
Yeah, I’m feeling pretty good about events right now. Watching it all unfold, and taking into account how much satisfaction this process has already given us, it is easy to forget that the real fun is still on its way.
Even if there were no more grubby secrets, even if there was no more scope for damage in the months and years to come, the effects of what has already been set in motion are going to scorch the earth.
That club will NEVER be the same again, an assessment based merely on what we know is coming already. If there is more, I think the very survival of Rangers in any form at all has to be in serious, serious doubt.
And you know what? That’s a beautiful thing.
I think there WILL be a vote, even though as the days pass it’s becoming to look like a “landslide”.
The SFA don’t want to be seen as the executioner with the big, hefty axe.
They will leave it to the most important clubs in Scotland to do it for them.
They will also leave it to the Appellate panel to decide on the transfer embargo (or stiffer punishment).
They will leave it to Hector to deal with dual contracts scandal.
Will they deal with the stripping of illegally aquired titles and cups?
As long as Campbell is there, I have my doubts.