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SFA error in law

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The SFA have made an error in interpreting their laws.  They refuse to discipline Calum Butcher as the rules do not allow them to switch a punishment retrospectively.  This is correct, but the rules do allow retrospective action which the referee has not seen.

Craig Thomson saw the Butcher-van Dijk incident inasmuch as he was looking at the players, but didn’t see it well enough to call an infringement.  SFA rules permit retrospective action under these circumstances.

The matter becomes theoretically more complicated by the involvement of the assistant referee, Graham Chambers.  Chambers also saw the incident inasmuch as he was also looking at the players, but he didn’t have a clear understanding of what happened either.  He couldn’t even identify the Dundee United player involved.
The rules on retrospective action do not require a referee to be looking in the opposite direction before the Disciplinary Panel become involved.  A ref can see the incident but not see if sufficiently well to correctly report what happened.  This is the basis under which Nadir Ciftci has been asked to attend the Panel.

Both referees on Sunday saw the incident.  Neither saw it well enough to bear witness to the actions of the two Dundee United players involved.  SFA laws allow both to be examined retrospectively.

Aiden Connolly, at the very least, has a case to answer for diving in the box.  Should the SFA ban Virgil van Dijk while turning a blind eye to Connolly and incorrectly interpreting their own rules on Butcher, and almighty row will kick off on the competency of those who govern our game.

Delighted for Stefan Johansen, who is February’s Player of the Month.  His goal in Perth was a joy and a fitting mark to the development he has achieved this season.

Before Friday’s CQN 11 St Patrick’s Dinner you can win a Celtic jersey signed by the 2008 squad, who won one of the most remarkable titles in our history.  All proceeds go towards building a fourth CQN school kitchen in Malawi, for Mary’s Meals.

Tickets cost £5 each, you know how valuable this is to those kids and families in Malawi.  Buy your ticket here, or click the link at the bottom of that page to buy a book of tickets.

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  1. Good afternoon CQN from a chilly Cheltenham.

     

    General Principal in the last race is the whisper.Paddy Power offer odds of 10/1.

     

    Other firms generally are 14/1.

     

    Bet sensible.

     

    KTF from a Hun free Cheltenham.

  2. South Of Tunis on

    Bummer .

     

     

    A long wanted 45 has popped up on Ebay

     

     

    Soul Boys -Blood Pressure ( Island )

     

     

    A gem of a choon from 67 . Offers over £ 450 please .

     

     

    I won’t be bidding ————–bummer !

  3. Last year Kieran Gibbs was sent off in error.

     

     

    Heres how theEnglish FA dealt with it

     

    Daily Mirror 24/03/14

     

     

    FA chiefs have wiped the incredible Arsenal red-card cock-up from football history.

     

     

    The FA disciplinary panel transferred the dismissal of Kieran Gibbs to Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, who was sent off for handball instead of his team-mate by bungling ref Andre Marriner – and then rescinded the ­punishment completely.

     

     

    It means the Ox and Gibbs are BOTH free to face Swansea on Tuesday in a major boost for the Gunners’ manager Arsene Wenger after his nightmare weekend.

     

     

    Even more incredibly, Marriner also got off scot-free after being put in charge of Southampton’s clash with Newcastle on Saturday.

     

     

    It was widely expected Marriner – who apologised straight after the mix-up – would be demoted over his gaffe, but the Premier League have stuck by him.

     

     

    The decision makes it almost as if the incident during Arsenal’s 6-0 defeat at Chelsea on Saturday never happened.

     

     

    Arsenal boss Wenger, talking before the FA’s decision, expected both players to be cleared.

  4. DU are playing the system.

     

    They new exactly what they were doing during the wrong player sending off , watch the reaction of his teammate when he is telling him that he will be ok and go off and accept the sending off as both he and the guy who should have went off would have their sending off rescinded and they would both be available for the next games.

  5. Rock Tree Bhoy on

    Paul 67

     

     

    “an almighty row will kick off on the competency of those who govern our game”

     

     

    I’m sure Campbell Ogilvie, a veteran of almighty rows, will be able to withstand the heat no bother at all…

  6. Steinreignedsupreme on

    TheLurkinTim 13:06 on 11 March, 2015

     

    tonydonnelly67 13:07 on 11 March, 2015

     

     

    Ciftci has been cited twice and won both of his appeals – so it’s understandable that he will not accept the ban.

  7. SoT,

     

     

    wats the buy me now price?…..are you gonna deprive yourself of a desperately wanted tune ;-))

     

     

    H.H.

     

     

    spendwatudontgotCSC…..mmmm reminds me of sumthin but I just can’t remember;-))

  8. Blantyre Tim, if you are right about Murray replacing Thomson for the replay (and I’ve no reason to doubt you) then can I be the first on here to forecast that after the replay the blog will be fulminating, heaving and slavering about Murray’s performance on the night. We are now in BIG danger in this game – Murray is far and away the most anti-Celtic referee in the set-up. Just think back to his performance last Wednesday at the St. Johnstone game, especially the last 30 minutes after St. Johnstone scored.

  9. Lawwells involvement with SFA baffles me.

     

    He should resign and focus on the development of Celtic.

     

    Whatever the outcome of SFA deliberations I can see PL’s association with them being interpreted as being an influencing factor – whether or not that is a valid assessment.

  10. Craig Thomson and Graham Chambers have been dropped from the Celtic v Dundee United Scottish Cup replay next Wednesday.

  11. steinreignedsupreme

     

     

    13:21 on 11 March, 2015

     

    TheLurkinTim 13:06 on 11 March, 2015

     

    tonydonnelly67 13:07 on 11 March, 2015

     

     

    Ciftci has been cited twice and won both of his appeals – so it’s understandable that he will not accept the ban.

     

     

     

    That I get, my point is, it’s unacceptable behaviour from a professional football team, what it’s saying is it condones that behaviour from one of its players, shocking.

  12. bournesouprecipe on

    Paul67

     

     

    An almighty row will kick off regarding competency?

     

     

    Perhaps within Celtic, and the Celtic support but I’d bet on zilch from The SFA and certainly not in time to correct the mistake for Sunday.

  13. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    PAUL67

     

     

    Your article is headed

     

     

    SFA ERROR IN LAW

     

     

    As we all know,football has laws of the game,not rules. However,the association which governs the game in Scotland has rules and regulations,not laws.

     

     

    Sandy Bryson will no doubt explain the SFA interpretation of this if you ask him. To save you time,his reply will be along the lines of up yours. With much use of the letter F.

  14. If he was a Celtic player and celtic appealed that charge, evey part of the SMSM would be over our club like a rash.

     

    Let’s see how this one turns out.

  15. GlassTwoThirdsFull on

    So we have a group of how many men (presumably men) sitting in a room, discussing mistaken identity.

     

    Right guys – if a player gets sent off in error he gets the red card rescinded.

     

    And not one of them thinks “what about the guy who DID do it”?????

  16. tonydonnelly67

     

    13:33 on

     

    11 March, 2015

     

    steinreignedsupreme

     

     

    13:21 on 11 March, 2015

     

    TheLurkinTim 13:06 on 11 March, 2015

     

    tonydonnelly67 13:07 on 11 March, 2015

     

     

    Ciftci has been cited twice and won both of his appeals – so it’s understandable that he will not accept the ban.

     

     

    That I get, my point is, it’s unacceptable behaviour from a professional football team, what it’s saying is it condones that behaviour from one of its players, shocking.

     

    ======

     

    He will not deny that the boot in face actually happened.

     

    Ciftci says it was an accident.

     

    He did not know the face was there and there was no intent.

     

     

    His club, like most clubs, will want to believe him and feel duty to bound to support him rather than call him a liar.

     

     

    Neither he nor the club will be any the worse off because the ban will not be extended even if the appeal fails.

  17. Shifty will get off with it based on the SFA precedent of “balance of probability”… he probably meant to boot Brown in the face but as he missed and caught him on the head it’s probably ok :)

  18. sixtaeseven - Gardez la Foi on

    Shifty by name, shifty by nature

     

     

    Should have been on the park in the first place.

  19. Someone at Celtic needs to remind The SFA of the underlying principles of their own disciplinary procedure, which they seem to be ignoring in this case, specifically the references to ‘fairness’. Shouldn’t be surprised really!

     

     

    This is from their own website:

     

     

    The Judicial Panel and Process

     

    The Scottish FA is responsible for administering disciplinary procedures for its member clubs. This is essential in protecting the integrity and reputation of the game at all levels, while also providing guidelines of acceptable behaviour for clubs.
As part of our new strategic plan, the disciplinary procedures were radically overhauled to provide greater efficiency, accountability and transparency.

     

     

    The evolution of the game necessitated such widespread changes to our disciplinary rules and the implementation of a FastTrack process has already proven to be successful.
The appointment of the first-ever compliance officer, Vincent Lunny, has ensured greater focus and legal enforceability of the disciplinary rules.

     

     

    Equally, the creation of a Judicial Panel cab rank system has ensured independence of decision-making and a diversity of skills on each panel.
These changes are based on two key principles:

     

     

    
Principle 1 – Economic and expeditious justice. The objective of the Protocol is to secure the Determination of disciplinary proceedings arising in respect of Association Football and that decisions are made economically and expeditiously in a fair manner. Tribunals appointed from the Judicial Panel may impose reasonable procedural requirements on Parties to ensure that matters are dealt with economically and expeditiously.


     

     

    Principle 2 – Decision making in a civil and footballing context. Whilst adhering to the general principles of fairness, and where appropriate, with consideration of underlying principles of law, those submitting to this Protocol acknowledge that these provisions relate to the Determination of matters arising from any breach of the Articles and/or the Disciplinary Rules, which govern the operation of Association Football in Scotland in a civil context, and that Tribunals may make appropriate Determinations in that civil and footballing context.

  20. Martin42

     

    Hope all goes well with the Op , It’s amazing how good they have got at doing them

     

    My brother in law got both done, 6 months apart, and is now attracting attention from scouts down Govan way.

     

     

    Take care, and sorry I won’t see you on Friday.

     

    HH

  21. tonydonnelly67

     

    13:33 on

     

    11 March, 2015

     

    steinreignedsupreme

     

     

    13:21 on 11 March, 2015

     

    TheLurkinTim 13:06 on 11 March, 2015

     

    tonydonnelly67 13:07 on 11 March, 2015

     

     

    Ciftci has been cited twice and won both of his appeals – so it’s understandable that he will not accept the ban.

     

     

    That I get, my point is, it’s unacceptable behaviour from a professional football team, what it’s saying is it condones that behaviour from one of its players, shocking.

     

    ======

     

    He will not deny that the boot in face actually happened.

     

    Ciftci says it was an accident.

     

    He did not know the face was there and there was no intent.

     

     

    His club, like most clubs, will want to believe him and feel duty to bound to support him rather than call him a liar.

     

     

    Neither he nor the club will be any the worse off because the ban will not be extended even if the appeal fails.

     

     

    Awe ok I get it now, so Griffiths can say he didn’t know the goaly was going to his left when he hit the penalty, so can he have the goal now, or can he have the penalty again, right?

  22. bournesouprecipe on

    Adnan Januzaj now has as many yellow cards for diving, as he does goals in his Manchester United career.

  23. TheLurkinTim, comment deleted. I cannot have language like that on the site, continue to use it and I will remove your account.

     

     

    We don’t have an automatic filter, so misspelling or inserting characters designed to get around one is pointless.

  24. mike in toronto on

    Assuming P67’s analysis is correct (and he usually is on these sorts of things, so I will assume that to be the case here), I think we can all likely agree on two things:

     

    1. P67’s response is more strongly worded and direct than Celtic’s official response;

     

    2. Nonetheless, in dealing with the suspensions, Celtic will make the same (correct) arguments advanced by P67 here.

     

     

    My question then is why P67’s statement is much more direct, while the Club’s statement is half-hearted?

     

     

    I see no downside to making this sort of argument publicly if we are going to make this argument at the hearings, plus it would give the fans (who, like myself, seem to overwhelmingly agree with P67 on this one) the feeling that the Club is actually prepared to stand up to the bigots at the SFA/SPFL.

     

     

    Justice isn’t just about what is done, but also about what is seen to be done. Even if Celtic do fight their corner at the hearing, it is important that the fans (and our opponents) see Celtic stand up publicly.

  25. Sorry Paul, I thought that inserting whatever got around that, ok mea culpa ( no offence bud ) my bad……;-((

     

     

    chastisedCSC

     

     

    H.H.

  26. Paul,

     

     

    I see Phil has some info regarding sale and lease back at Ibrox. They must be finally listening to your advice. It’s their only survival option.

  27. bournesouprecipe on

    What a treble …..Craig Thompson Bobby Madden and Calum Murray.

     

     

    WhatCouldPossiblyGoWrong CSC

  28. MARTIN42

     

     

    On the case re retrieving your CD, Paul has an update on this for you. Good luck with the operation, hope all goes well.

     

     

    glasgowdave – he might pop in as he is dropping off his better half but our mystery guest is a more recent arrival at the club.

     

     

    He’ll be there bright and early at 6.30pm so if you are coming to CQN 11 please get along early.

  29. mike in toronto

     

    We can’t be seen to be going to war on everything with the SFA spfl , the board have had there say, I’m happy with that, your not, move on Ffs.,

  30. In mitigation…..it’s hard to express yourself properly when you’re incredibly angry ;-))

     

     

    H.H.

  31. Morning all in the land of Celtic,

     

     

    This is the first time I have posted anything since February 20, the day that Tony died.

     

     

    Last Friday, we had a Life Celebration Service for Tony at Virginia Military Institute, Lexington, Virginia, during which the name and spirit of Celtic Football Club featured prominently, and where we had the Celtic Park crowd’s chorus of “Walk On” played. Tony left instructions that no-one was to wear black at the service and if he had had his way then we would all have been obliged to wear green and white. Tony’s sense of humour was legendary, and so I choose to think that his antipathy to the colour black at his Life Celebration was as much to do with his negative feelings towards Scottish referees.

     

     

    I want to thank the CQN blog in general, but particularly, I want to extend the heartfelt gratitude of the whole family to everyone who took the time to leave a message on here, or send an email or who supported us in whatever way was meaningful to them.

     

     

    We never, ever felt that we walked alone; neither did Tony.

     

     

    The extent of Tony’s love for Celtic was never in doubt, and in an obituary I sent to the Reading Chronicle newspaper I referred to that love. The journalists turned the obituary into a news item and used my last words in the obituary as their headline. Today, I want to finish with those words. Thank you all.

     

     

    “Hail! Hail! Tony. Leave the light on.”

  32. mike in toronto on

    RWE … a lovely post that reflects well on both you and Tony.

     

     

    I’m sure Tony would be as proud of you, as you are obviously proud of him.

     

     

    Hail hail

  33. Wouldn’t feel rite if I was on here and didn’t get pulled up ;-)) – thats three yellows this season & am not even a durty player…..or frequent poster ;-))

     

     

    standardsisthewatchwordCSC

     

     

    H.H.

  34. Steinreignedsupreme on

    !!Bada Bing!! 14:26 on 11 March, 2015

     

     

    The media has tried to implicate Scott Brown as the guilty party who started it all, while conveniently forgetting Thomson saw Broony’s challenge and did not consider it a foul.

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