SFA chief executive, Stewart Regan, clearly sees opportunity among the carnage that is Scottish football at the moment as he leaked plans to ambush clubs into a radical overhaul of the league structures to the media yesterday.
Henry McLeish made several recommendations in his paper on the future of our game, one of which was for a smaller professional setup of two leagues (SPL 1 and SPL 2), sitting on top of a grass-roots pyramid of community based clubs, as well as a 10-team top division. I agreed with both recommendations but relegation-dodgers in the SPL refused to countenance such a deal.
While it seems a 10-club top division is as far away as ever, the SFA are keen to push through a SPL 2 proposal before the start of the new season, something which borders on ultra-ambitious.
An unattributed SFA source (surely Regan himself) briefed BBC’s Jim Spence on their plans but the language was curious:
“Someone has to take a lead and sort out the internal bickering and point scoring and also to ensure that the Rangers situation never happens again.
“We need to use the mood for change among supporters in the country to tackle the current inertia and do what is right for the game.
“Change has to be democratic, but the time for talking has passed. We need action now to save the game.
“The fans are demanding fundamental change. The Rangers situation has intensified the need for a resolution and, over the next few weeks, we will meet with the SPL and SFL to find a solution.”
In order to “ensure the Rangers situation never happens again”, why don’t the SFA start by ensuring former directors of Rangers, who participated in the controversial EBT scheme which precipitated the crisis, are removed from the SFA board?
The SFA president received loans from Rangers EBT which he did not repay despite the club going bust last week. There is a belief that those loans were never meant to be repaid and that many of Rangers EBT loans were accompanied by written confirmation that they were never to be repaid, making these ‘loans’ an illegal tax scam.
The SFA chief executive claimed to have investigated and cleared the president of any wrong-doing. No one else is aware of this investigation. There is a suspicion that all he did was listen to the president’s version of events, compounding an already dreadful situation for the SFA.
We would love to hear how Mr Ogilvie explained why he didn’t repay his loan.
Two weeks ago we spoke about the SFAs inadequate corporate governance on these matters. If only corporate governance was the extent of the problem, they appear quite shameless.
“Someone has to take the lead…. tackle the current inertia and do what is right for the game”.
Sack the clown before you start to preach to the rest of the game.
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Auld Neil Lennon heid on 17 June, 2012 at 14:31:
…It is understood that, over the next few weeks, the SFA, which is the body that licenses the clubs TO PLAY , will hold meetings with the SPL and the SFL to PUSH through the changes it feels are needed.
My reading of this is that the SFA are telling the SPL they will not grant Newco a licence for the SPL because the rules do not allow it and the only game in town is restructuring…
An interesting inference you draw, one which I hope that comes to pass i.e. the bit about them not being granted a license…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Auldheid
Thanks. I had a good read of that before and refreshed again as you have suggested. Terminology is important.
So, sevco could achieve ‘membership’ of both the SPL and SFA if the SPL accept an application for ‘membership’ made by sevco.
However, this does not confer a ‘licence’ to practise football, which if I’m reading Mr Tweet Regan rightly is a separate matter dealt with via an application for said licence considered by the SFA Licensing Committee?
The Licence required for participation in the SPL is the UEFA Licence. Sevco as a ‘club’ (irrespective of their ‘trading name’) cannot meet that requirement and they cannot do anything that would achieve that.
But, the SFA could consider an ‘exception’?
I would still argue that the casual movement between ‘member’ and ‘club’ in the various responses does not help clarity.
I would suggest that the key point that confers the status of ‘club’ on a ‘member’ is the licence to practise football?
If I’m reading the licensing stuff wrong please correct me.
HH
Phils latest
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dealing-with-the-legacy-of-a-tainted-past/#comment-23977
mickbhoy1888 on 17 June, 2012 at 13:31 said:
If Jock Stein wasn’t good enough to receive
a knighthood ,then no is…….imho.
FEKTHEM
sparkleghirl
There’s heaps of evidence out there that they fielded inelgible players. According to Ioannidis, old Rangers must still be ‘in existence’ to be sued/stripped of ill-gotten titles, or the opportunity will be lost.
Where is Doncaster, the man who so confidently said that he fully expected the CVA to be approved?
For that appalling lack of misjudgement alone he should be removed forthwith.
Italian radio news has stated that UEFA have instigated disciplinary proceedings against the English Football Association for the “inappropriate conduct ” of England supporters during the England -Sweden game.
News reader added —— ” like Russia / like Croatia England will be fined. . UEFA need the money “
Paul
I can only imagine Campbell (Whit skill didjoo goatee) Ogilvie has some compromising photos of Regan.
They’ve went too far to turn back is my thoughts.
Any action now apart from the present course of ignorance would be an admission of guilt.
I predict a rushed through 2 tier system with Newco FC in the second league – suitably punished although fully expected to return to the top flight as quickly as possible…
u
SoT
What was the ‘inappropriate conduct’? Must have missed it?
HH
up_over_goal on 17 June, 2012 at 14:46 said:
yes but this is the same guy who a week or two ago was talking of a possible 10 game suspension.
Paul67 et al
There is a simple solution, one which would indeed “ensure that the Rangers situation never happens again”, and that is to exclude Rangers, in any form or under any guise, from any level of Scottish football. If Walter Smith or Jim McColl wants to start a new club, then they can form one, find some players, find a league that will admit them, register their players and take it from there. Any interested party should be asked why that should not happen to them, and then, when they answer, “because we are Rangers”, they should be told that that is exactly why you are being excluded! Opportunistic though the SFA “statement” might be I welcome it, as an admission that change must come, and as yet there is no firm evidence that it will come from the SPL. You are right Paul of course, yet again, to call for the resignation of the SFA President Campbell Ogilvie, indeed that should the starting point. Or is Stuart Regan waiting until Ogilvie has been interviewed by HMRC?
So if Dundee get the place will the fixtures be rearranged to keep them and utd separated
row z —–
Googled ——
Reuters claiming ” attempted invasion of the field of play ”
Said to have occurred after Theo Walcott’s goal.
¡ǝsoɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɯ ssɐd ‘sʞɔıʞ ʎןɟ ɥbnouǝ (o) /o\ z ʍoɹ on 17 June, 2012 at 14:44 said:
The SFA could not consider an exception, what they can do is make a case to UEFA for an excpetion to be granted. No chance of UEFA doing that and so no chance a case will be made.
However National Club Licensing for lower divisons does not involve UEFA as part of the process and it is there that I think wriggle room will be found by the SFA to allow a Newco to start lower down.
This is a commercial issue for the football industry in Scotland and losing a huge part of the customer base to the game as a whole, not just the SPL, is not going to happen. Thus restructuring, which was already on the agend, as a way out of the problem.
My fear if I was a supporter of the lower tier league a Newco play in would be the refereeing. We all know what that was like when Rangers HAD to win for the sake of Scottish football. Hence my condition for a total review of the refereeing service.
sparkleghirl
Yes… Just because he’s claiming it doesn’t make it so, but there must be grounds, other than guesswork, as to why he thinks clubs need to sue. I hope Celtic and other clubs don’t rely solely on the SPL/SFA to restore titles and trophies.
Are plans still in place for 10 oclock tonite………….chineese lanters…some of the guys were saying on friday night they planned a display for tonite with it being fathers day…….weather for tonite seema to be dry and not a lot of wind
Paul, Campbell Ogilvie’s position is untenable for a variety of reasons, but your comments re his loan situation rather miss the mark.
As soon as a contribution is made by the employer to the trustee then (apart from a potential court action claiming gratuitous alienation, which would not be in point for contributions made years before RFC went into administration) the money is placed absolutely beyond the reach of the company or its creditors. RFC’s financial situation therefore has no bearing at all on when or whether CO’s loan should be repaid.
By the time loans were made, funds will have been placed in sub-funds for the sole benefit of the employee (and his family). It’s very much normal practice for trustees to advance loans on favourable terms to beneficiaries of the trust, including interest-free loans over a long or indeterminate period. Ogilvie’s receipt of such a loan is not therefore in itself indicative of any misdemeanour on his, RFC’s or the trustee’s part.
The thing that will make RFC’s use of EBTs an ‘illegal tax scam’ (and as one of many direct consequences sink Ogilvie) is proof that contributions were in fact disguised contractual payments, and that RFC subsequently misrepresented their nature. If done deliberately this is fraudulent and any RFC directors who initiated or colluded in such action could find themselves in severe trouble personally, in addition to RFC’s corporate woes.
The side letters certainly support this thesis, but there is already more evidence in the public domain to the same effect. Specifically, Dodds, Ogilvie and Bain have all stated that their EBT payments were entirely or in part made up of contractual payments (bonuses in the case of Bain and Ogilvie, severance payments in the case of Dodds and Ogilvie).
Dodds has made the strange further claim that the EBT paid only the net amount and that RFC accounted for the tax on his bonus. If that is right then he is in the clear (and pigs will fly). If it is not then he is an accessory to tax evasion, unless e.g. RFC provided him with a false P60 stating that tax had been paid which actually had not.
The situations of Bain and Ogilvie are more serious. Both were executive directors of RFC, with at least some degree of direct awareness and (given their individual positions within the club) responsibility for the club’s finances and use of EBTs.
Bain is IMO in the most exposed position, as he has admitted in writing to shredding documents that showed the true nature of the payment made to him by the EBT. On casual inspection, that implies an awareness on his part that the representation of the EBT payment to him as discretionary was false. That is potentially a very serious position for him to be in, should the authorities decide to investigate that particular episode; and given HMRC’s stated intention to examine RFC’s records forensically in order to determine the potential liability of individuals, that is almost a given.
Ogilvie’s ‘confession’ came in the form of an interview with a newspaper. If we take his reported comments as accurate, then he is in almost as much bother as Bain, as he has stated he knew the payments to his EBT were in relation to amounts contractually due. If he has not accounted personally for the tax and NI due on these payments to HMRC then it is axiomatic that he must resign his position as SFA president.
As explained above, that really doesn’t need explanation. However, I would love Mr Ogilvie to explain why he felt it was acceptable to receive contractual payments tax-free via the EBT, and what efforts he made as a director to ensure that the EBT being run by RFC was properly administered and accounted for in the accounts that he signed off as company secretary.
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on 17 June, 2012 at 14:58:
“So if Dundee get the place will the fixtures be rearranged to keep them and utd separated”
I’d imagine that’s all been worked out just in case Club 12 don’t make the cut.
Ogilvie Out !!
Auldheid
Cheers
So if everyone accepts that they cannot achieve the UEFA licence why the big stushie about their app to the SPL and sevco’s desire to pursue this?
They have to wait 3 years (4 seasons) to be eligible for the UEFA Licence by the current rules.
There seems only marginal advantage to be in the second tier as opposed to the 4th?
If I was a TV exec I might think there was much more mileage and viewing to be had by ‘the long walk to freedom’ following sevco through 3 divisions rather than 3 years of ‘repeats’ in the second tier might deliver?
HH
SoT
Cheers (take the hint over I could have googled). Wondered why they had a disproportionate number of stewards trackside at the end compared to Sweden.
HH
Paul67
He was not just a beneficiary of the criminally implemented (EBT scheme) he was also central to the implementation at the club who carried out the tax evasion scam for many years. Ogilvy will always be a dead man walking by onlooking supporters aghast at the actions and non actions of the current SFA management. This will rumble on till justice and common sense are seen to prevail at this strange little institution. Now that RFC are dead we now have the time to concentrate on the remaining injustices in our small footballing world.
“We need to use the mood for change among supporters in the country to tackle the current inertia and do what is right for the game.”
Is this not dangerous talk?
I understood that many supporters’ associations were beginning to voice their opinions to their clubs, and quite strongly. The “mood for change”, “inertia” and “what is right” are all parts of the anti newco groundswell.
Surely this sort of statement will only serve to encourage a stronger feeling still.
Fighting amongst yourselves is daft. Deliberately antagonising an ever widening opposition is just ….. hunnish?
NeiR,
Is it true that the three year investigation limit can be extended if irregularities are discovered ?
Have we signed anyone yet?
Any more news on Rodallego coming in or of Ki going out?
Any Celtic news at all?
Has burley apologised yet or has he been sacked?
Are we doing more lanterns tonight?
Is sir walter enjoing his holiday in France? Reports say he is a “football man” and is leaving all this takeover stuff to his financially aware partners who are hovering over the decaying corpse as we type.
Personally I think he is just a fud, but what do I know.
Time for my mid afternoon medicine.
A small Glenfiddich, with a splash of water.
All this typing is tiring me out.
Dismantle the entire structure of Scottish football. Restructure it in an equitable way. Criminalise the o.o. Take a season out to do this.
We could cope with it,if it resulted in a corruption free game.
Sometimes radical surgery is the only thing that works and is the last resort when the disease has become nigh on unstoppable.
Because now the whole argument has descended to the level of “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.”
It’s all an exercise in obfuscation and ‘death by enquiry’ to ensure the continuation,no matter how shameful,of the Shankhill Butchers state of mind epitomised by the most despised set of ‘fans’ on the planet and their filthy excuse of a ‘football club’,dead or not – who knows? And THAT is the point of all this.
TBB, cheers.
mickthetic, they are.
saltires en sevilla, it’s too easy when there’s so much material.
Lennybhoy, indeed.
Steinreignedsupreme, I hear you.
taggart nobody move, yes, HMRC will pursue all avenues to get their money back, although I’m not so sure they will ask Sevco to pay a deposit.
sixtaeseven, technically possible but highly ambitious.
up_over_goal, no point suing for financial recompense, it would earn nothing and I’m not sure it is possible. Sounds like a distraction. It’s more important to reallocate the trophies.
Auldheid, I believe it will be difficult for the SFA to licence Newco.
Ulysses, compromising! Perish the though.
Celtic Mac, quite right.
NeilR, thank you for those notes.
Freddiebhoy, hope so.
Ogilvie is a criminal and the polis need to be rollin’ up to his door.
It’s as simple as that.
Why all the delay? What’s to talk about?
Arrest him. Bang him up. Throw away the key.
Actions speak louder than words Regan / Doncaster…show you mean business for the GOOD of Scottish Football
1) Sack Ogilvie NOW
2) Tell the Limbo FC they can apply for Division 3 or go without football.
Anything less is merely papering over the huge cracks in the SFA credibility or what is left of it.
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on 17 June, 2012 at 15:11:
Apologies for butting in. In a word, yes, if irregularities are found and go back further than three years and are deemed serious enough then they can gp back more than three years.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Paul67 the gloves are off in this leader…… Those charged with football governance in Scotland are the very ones who should be under investigation by a higher authority, it’s not a case of capability and competency any longer, but more like avoidance and collusion.
The truth will out!
HH
Philbhoy – It’s just the beginning! on 17 June, 2012 at 15:12:
My information is, although the deal not concluded Rodellga will sign.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
“If you tolerate this
Then your children
Will be next.”
If WE tolerate this…….
…
jeezo,I’m in one dark mood today.
All I know is that if the situation was reversed,we would have been hung,drawn & quartered by now.
The injustice of it all has me thinkin’ ‘Gotterdammerung’ kinda thoughts.
Help!
Yes.
row Z —–
It wasn’t a hint —merely my way of saying I didn’t have a clue and had got the info from someone else .
I’m currently in the mountains of southern Utah ( free copy of the book of Mormon everywhere – no kidding) and just catching up on recent events.
Here’s a prediction. Club 12 will be scheduled to be at home to Celtic somewhere between 28 December and 3 January.
I also expect Club 12 to play Celtic in the following order AWAY-HOME-AWAY.
From the above you would assume that I believe that Club 12 will be the Huns. You would be right.
DoubtingthomasCSC
Lennybhoy….
Cheers!
I think he would be a good addition. He would also put pressure on the players already here to up their games in order to keep their places.
NeilR on 17 June, 2012 at 15:20 said:
Blimey! How did you do that fancy font?