Signing strategies not to follow follow

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Keep one eye on the profile of players we target and sign this summer.  The model which has delivered so many trophies in recent seasons has been to sign them before they reach their peak, develop and either extend their contracts, or sell.  It is sustainable and avoids the cliff edge of players spending their peak years with us, then dropping in value as the years progress.

Contrast this to what has happened across the city, where they sign players in their mid-20s in the hope of an immediate fix to a problem that conventionally takes strategic development to resolve.

In signing Connor Barron, Newco appear to have figured this out.  You just hope that while they are copying our strategy, we are not copying theirs….

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  1. but they all need to align somewhere for the well being of the business.

     

     

    december for ibrox, seriously, surely not.

  2. CHAIRBHOY on 2ND JULY 2024 6:38 PM

     

     

    “Won’t be recommending him to be picking the Celtic team anytime soon though.”

     

     

    Thats has that got to do with strategy?

  3. SAINT STIVS on 2ND JULY 2024 7:10 PM

     

    but they all need to align somewhere for the well being of the business.

     

     

    Exactly, or the organisation becomes disfunctional.

     

     

    Its my problem with Brendan, Ive been very open about how I dont believe his and the club’s needs overlap enough. I think it stops us being as successful as we could be, and I think his first time at Celtic proved that and I think his reluctance to truly buy into the development model is holding us back.

     

     

    But the board seem to be able to put up with it so so should I, and as long as theres enough accord for things to function I’ll be happy

  4. But it will mean I will never want him in charge of any sort of business strategy. He’s got too much of a conflict of interests and not enough expertise

  5. bigrailroadblues on

    Good evening all from the New Road Inn, Blackpool. I hope you fine Celts are all well.

  6. glendalystonsils on

    Umpire having to warn those loutish thug fans at Wimbledon not to pop champagne corks during play but to wait for the changeovers .

  7. The returnof weeron on

    Paul67….

     

     

    A strategy is the route to achieving an objective. Our current strategy is successful in achieving our objective: Keeping ourselves a nose ahead of der hun. It could be said that our success has been a product of our strategy. However, much of what we have achieved in the last 13 seasons has been helped by the mistakes that our ‘rivals’ have made.

     

     

    Don’t scoff. They got themselves in financial trouble, went into admin, and got liquidated.

     

     

    If…IF…we were ever to push our objective a wee bit…and decided that once in a while we might like to dip our wee toe into the waters of the UCL knock out rounds….that would require signing fewer weans and signing the odd adult.

     

     

    In fact, even if we don’t want to do that, we may be forced into it. We have been fortunate to have Broonie, who stayed with us right through the ‘experienced’ and ‘mature’ stages of his career. As did Calmac and Jamsie.

     

     

    What are we going to do when we have no ‘lifers’?

     

     

    Unless we change the strategy, we’ll be left with no battle hardened heroes.

     

     

    We’d have to buy some 25 to 28 year olds – not to have a go at the UCL knock outs – but just to stay that ‘wee nose’ ahead of the south siders. That, and hope that our ‘rivals’ don’t suddenly become sensible.

     

     

    The decision makers at the club have been around long enough to be stupidly over confident.

     

     

    Cheers,

     

    Ronnie

  8. bigrailroadblues on

    Seen a few Celtic shirts round old Blackpool Town. No hun, handsome or otherwise. Must be keeping a low profile, place is usually infested with the lowlifes.

  9. Bigrailroadblues Could I ask what Hotel are you in ,we usually go to the Sheraton,but I’m hearing its getting a huge upgrade ,would that right .

  10. SAINT STIVS, CELTIC40ME…

     

     

    Apologies for the delay in getting back, the industry my boy is in is not sports, it is however an industry where data analytics are hugely necessary.

     

     

    Football strategy and business strategy are two totally different things.

     

     

    However they obviously overlap from time to time but you don’t want your head of football running your business and you don’t want your CEO running football.

     

     

    Obviously recruitment is one such area where business strategy and football strategy overlap.

     

     

    The head of football wants a huge budget to put the best possible team on the pitch

     

     

    The CEO wants to control costs, further, in a modern football environment they may well see the buying and selling of players as a potential revenue stream.

     

     

    Now, that obviously has complexity, it means business and football strategies have to align and compromise to ensure maximum bang for buck in both environments.

     

     

    However at Celtic that doesn’t happen, the business people don’t compromise to give the football Club the chance to utilise recruitment to their benefit

     

     

    They analyse not what profile player is best for football results.

     

     

    They analyse what profile player gives maximum return on investment.

     

     

    Now it could well be you will get most out of a Footballer in his mid to late Twenties with five years first team experience under their belt.

     

     

    That’s irrelevant to Celtic business managers

     

     

    There analytics tell them you get the best chance on roi with players twenty three and under with less than eighty first team games.

     

     

    So they get the head of recruitment in, they put a ceiling on the players age, they put a ceiling on the players cost and they profile the game time and league.

     

     

    There is absolutely no logic in that to suggest you’ll get the best available footballers for the budget.

     

     

    The onus is on the head of recruitment to use data analytics on the players that fit the “cost/age” profile dynamic to short list some players for a required position and a committee of recruitment personnel, football personnel and executives select from that short list.

     

     

    Of course, because the cost/age/game time profile selected was based on roi potential rather than the quality and suitability of the footballer it is very unlikely to short list a footballer with the quality and experience that Celtic require.

     

     

    It is lazy both in it’s profiling and it’s selection and it’s implementation, which is why time and time again Celtic are recruiting the wrong players.

     

     

    Further, it is based on a totally false premises, the premise that may work for other Clubs

     

     

    Say Man City buy twenty, fifteen million pound players U23 – put them into the developmental pathway and produce ten quality first team players in the short medium and longterm, they can sell five players without taking a major loss and they take a hit on five.

     

     

    That model could work for them

     

     

    Celtic take that model, instead of twenty players they buy ten, instead of averaging fifteen million they average 2

     

    5 million.

     

     

    Will that still work?

     

     

    Well who knows, the logic is flawed, it’s a totally different criteria.

     

     

    Yet Celtic knows what works for them

     

     

    Getting a mix of players, get UCL football

     

     

    As well as having a much more successful football team, they will make record revenues, record profits and add record value to the squad.

     

     

    BR Mk1 proved that, Ange proved that.

     

     

    The cut down City Group Model obviously doesn’t work for us and it doesn’t take a genius logician to work out why.

     

     

    Hail Hail

  11. CHAIRBHOY on 2ND JULY 2024 9:43 PM

     

     

    i disagree, your logic is the flaw, not who celtic recruit.

     

     

    evidenced by £120m in the bank.

  12. bigrailroadblues on

    Timbhoy163 9.29

     

    We are in the Royal Boston on Queens Promenade. Sorry, don’t know about the Sheraton.

  13. CHAIRBHOY on 2ND JULY 2024 9:43 PM

     

     

    Thanks for mansplaining it to me I understand it perfectly, but I think you’re struggling a bit with the subtleties

     

     

    Player trading and recruitment is a vital part of any football club these days. We have to generate a significant amount of income from player profits. You can’t hand transfer strategy over to a manager – most of them don’t see further than winning as many games as possible in the next season, and why would they when they face the sack if they don’t. They are also football people, they don’t have the training or expertise to think I strategically

     

     

    What you’re describing at Celtic is too black and white. We don’t sign every player with a view to selling them at a profit. It makes no sense – they have to contribute to a successful team for them to be worth anything. Included in the model is an assumption that any signing will have to help in the success of the team. And we don’t just sign young players who need time, our starting 11 in the cup final included 10 over 25s. We’ve not signed many in the last couple of windows but that’s not to say we won’t and the model doesn’t allow for it as well as youngsters

     

     

    The players aren’t signed just to sell on. Matt O’Riley is an example of someone who we couldn’t sign at his peak but who gave us 2 1/2 years of first team action and a year as the standout player in the division. Edouard was with us for 3 and top scored for 2 of them.

     

     

    It’s a coherent strategy, it’s perfectly logical and it takes in the fundamental berd to remain solvent. It might not be to everyone’s liking and there’s a strong argument that we could do better

     

     

    But it hasn’t failed – we’ve won too muck for it to be despite a fundamentally flawed.

     

     

    What ever the arguments we can’t hand over strategically essential decisions like transfer policy to a football manager. They don’t have the expertise and it’s not in their interests.

  14. Should read : “We don’t sign every player solely with a view to selling them at a profit”

  15. All talk,you want quality,at any age,you have to spend money,unless you are extremely lucky.EG,MOR,Dembele.

     

    We are reportedly looking for £30 million for MOR,yet we,the club,and a good few fans baulk at the idea of spending big.Jota,for example.Would everyone on here be willing to pay£10 million,and 50 grand a week?.A deal could be done.Would you take him on loan,with the option to buy for £10 million next year,paying £50 grand a week for the loan.Saudis would be amenable,or he sits there for another 3 years,costing them,£ 15 million.

     

    Would most on here be happy with that deal?.Interesting to know.

  16. The merits or shortcomings of the recruitment strategy have been done to death.

     

     

    The execution of the strategy has to be carried out by football experts, the strategy itself can’t be trusted to managers who have their own personal priorities. As we’ve seen recently successful ones leave after a couple of years, unhappy ones walk out.

     

     

    You appoint a football manager to manage the team, at no point do you consider their strategic expertise

  17. !!Bada Bing!! on

    CELTIC40ME on 2ND JULY 2024 10:53 PM

     

    The merits or shortcomings of the recruitment strategy have been done to death.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The execution of the strategy has to be carried out by football experts,

     

     

    Better get a few experts in PDQ……

  18. !!BADA BING!! on 2ND JULY 2024 10:59 PM

     

     

    I guess, although it’s important to get the right people in though, no?

  19. You are shooting down strawmen

     

     

    Neither I nor anybody else asked for this…

     

     

    <i"…You can’t hand transfer strategy over to a manager –”

     

     

    What I said about transfer strategy was this…

     

     

    “Now, that obviously has complexity, it means business and football strategies have to align and compromise to ensure maximum bang for buck in both environments.

     

     

    You read CQN regularly, you listen to Brendan Rodgers regularly.

     

     

    Now this time last year Brendan Rodgers was telling us how he thought the recruitment process worked and the type of player he wanted in.

     

     

    At the same time Paul67 was telling us what the actual recruitment strategy was and the type of player Brendan Rodgers was going to be getting.

     

     

    Paul67 was right, Brendan Rodgers was wrong.

     

     

    Paul67’s leads are a matter of record, Brendan Rodgers pressers are on YouTube so you can check to your hearts content.

     

     

    Brendan Rodgers talked of 10mn pound players with quality and experience

     

     

    Paul67 talked about no player over 23 and spending much less money on players who had much less experienced

     

     

    Paul67 was 100% right, once again the players we bought, their age and experience and the amount we paid for them are all a matter of record and can be checked.

     

     

    Since Mark L became Head of recruitment in May 2022 that was the model that was followed.

     

     

    Since Peter L returned as Chairman in December 2022 we doubled down on the model and sold or moved on numerous first team players.

     

     

    These are verifiable facts.

     

     

    The model was an abject failure both in football and commercial terms.

     

     

    In fact that model has lost us money since Rangers died.

     

     

    It is a zero sum game that takes the money that Celtic supporters spend on tickets, merchandising etc ploughs into recruitment, then any money generated from player sales is NOT subtracted from the money spent.

     

     

    Rather it is put in the Board’s profit pile, they say look how much we made from player sales – ain’t we clever.

     

     

    Those who don’t add up the outgoings and subtract them from the player receipts may well believe them – most that do the arithmetic don’t.

     

     

    Hail Hail

  20. Anyone doubting my view on the low level of belief the fans have of spending decent money,Celts Are Here Blog did an in depth analysis of Burnleys,O’ Shea.The concluded he would be an excellent addition to our defence,but Burnley would probably be wanting a bit more than £7 million they paid for him,so would be out of our reach.This is what I mean.This is not our Board thinking this,its our fans,who want “Quality”,but only if its cheap quality.

  21. SAINT STIVS @ 10:22 PM,

     

     

    “i disagree, your logic is the flaw, not who celtic recruit.

     

     

    evidenced by £120m in the bank.</i[

     

     

    List all the players that were recruited since May 2022 and tell me if that's a winning or failed strategy.

     

     

    The 120 mn in the bank came from monet the supporters put into the business and UEFA receipts over the last decade.

     

     

    The money spent on players and the money made from player sales is actually a negative amount.

     

     

    No way was 120 mn pound made from recruitment sales – buys.

     

     

    It's a zero sum game dontcha kno;)

     

     

    Hail Hail

  22. !!Bada Bing!! on

    CELTIC40ME on 2ND JULY 2024 11:04 PM

     

    !!BADA BING!! on 2ND JULY 2024 10:59 PM

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I guess, although it’s important to get the right people in though, no?

     

     

    That could said of our recruitment as well, Hart told us in February he was leaving, etc.We have the money to spend £30 million plus,on 5 or 6 players,we will need to up the wages to get in better players,we can really put some distance between the other teams in the league, last season could have turned out very badly,thankfully Brendan got us there,it should never have been as close.

  23. !!Bada Bing!! on

    Burnley just signed a Brazilian CB,could help if we are in for O’Shea, Scott Parker new manager there as well.

  24. CHAIRBHOY on 2ND JULY 2024 11:09 PM

     

    You are shooting down strawmen

     

     

    I’m not. You want to discuss the pros and cons of the recruitment strategy and I know it grinds your gears when people won’t engage in what you think is fertile ground. But it’s something that’s been discussed too many times for me. There’s nothing new.

     

     

    It’s become your straw man argument. Regardless of the pros and cons of it it’s nothing something our manager, whoever he is, should decide. It’s not a healthy way of running a football club.

  25. Back to Basics - Glass Half Full on

    Completed the Celtic survey earlier tonight.

     

     

    Took about 20 minutes.

     

     

    Decent enough – quite a few free text fields to get into the heart of matters as you see them.

  26. CHAIRBHOY

     

     

    “List all the players that were recruited since May 2022 and tell me if that’s a winning or failed strategy.”

     

     

    Isn’t a better measure of success trophies?

  27. Back to Basics - Glass Half Full on

    Off to bed.

     

     

    I wonder what will arrive first.

     

     

    Our first signing or R2ngers steel?

     

     

    🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

     

     

    Goodnight CQN

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