Interesting angle in today’s Telegraph: “Celtic are the only club in Scotland, apart from Rangers, who are known to have used an EBT contract”. Why are we part of this conversation? Despite the millions of words written on the subject of EBTs over the last six years, there appears to be a curious misunderstanding about them.
Juninho arrived at Celtic with an EBT from earlier in his career. Celtic funded this Trust around the time the player left the club, informed HMRC about the transaction, and paid the tax due. No side letters (contracts) were issued with regard to this Trust. No information was hidden from HMRC or football authorities.
The conversation went a bit like this:
Celtic: Hi HMRC, Celtic here. We’ve paid Mr Juninho’s EBT £Xk. What is our tax position?
HMRC: £Yk tax is due on that payment.
Celtic: Thanks. Will pay today.
EBTs are in themselves not illegal, nor even immoral. They were introduced to allow employers a framework to give loans to employees. Many employers, formally or informally, give loans to employees to cover everything from crises to Christmas expenses. Or migration expenses, which is occasionally the case in football. That some use EBTs to attempt to put income beyond the reach of taxation is a reflection on those clubs, not others who openly declare EBT payments to HMRC and pay any corresponding tax.
The newspaper goes on to offer a defence against HMRC, almost as though it was dictated from David Murray himself: “it is believed that one argument against the supposition that Rangers secured players by means of EVTs (sic.) is that a range of variable inducements were in operation at that time and not only at Ibrox.
“Other avoidance schemes involved investment in such vehicles as film production companies and forestry development.”
Yes, a range of other inducements were available – legal ones. Other people legally used other schemes. It’s clarity of thought like this being a defence of Rangers that which put them into such a mess to begin with.
Delighted to read Rangers Tax Case back with such insight last night. Catch up with him here if you missed it.
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You are the root cause of a lot of people leaving the Blog.
And, no, I’m not naming them, however, they are well known to most of us.
See, no digs, no insults. Just sensible comment.
Now what is so difficult about that?
TONYDONNELL67. Will you stop it fella or there will be no one left on the blog to chat with your driving them all away.H.H. :- )
a statement from Rangers said. “The directors will consider carefully shareholders views on this vote, consult (where practicable) with those who did not vote or opposed the resolution and identify the company’s next steps after that process is complete.”
=========
A question arising from the above.
Is it normal for a board of directors to be given the details of how specific shareholders voted? – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/one-for-the-zonal-detesters-playing-ashley/comment-page-13/#comments
Jobo Baldie
I’m sorry you are taking a break.
Your posts were always pleasant and interesting to read.
Oh and by the way, it is chucking it in Linlithgow.
Take care.
Geordie Munro on 1st December 2015 12:44 pm
Glass2/3’s
Who are you thinking?
Are his initials RF(C)
– ——–
That’s the one!
The final version was shown to CST at one of their meetings to gain support to publicise it. – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/#sthash.7jAWEmXs.dpuf
Aulhied
Yes I’m almost sure that was what I read at the time, and I didn’t want to bring it up at such an early stage of the resolution, so I let it slide, but it was always in my head, I didn’t get it then nor do I know, but hey ho, what’s done is done.
JOBO. Have a Holy and good Christmas I hope to see you back on the blog in the future your one of the blogs gentlemen. H.H.
Isn’t it a bit odd that all those Rangers EBT legends who most definitely DIDN’T join the club for money have not been willing or able to pay back their loans…..?
Paul 67…
Dragging us into the gutter where the dead club went will hopefully be addresed by the board.
If they don’t, a lot of questions will be asked on where they stand.
As another infrequent poster – mainly team line ups and diatribes about ‘same club’ myth and irrelevant political polemic – I too read the blog much less than previously as it has become a swamp of personal invective and mud slinging more akin to a primary school playground.
I too can’t understand why it continues unmoderated.
Why don’t the protagonists turn up at CQN corner and ‘discuss’ their differences? Stupid rhetorical questionI suppose
!I am looking forward travelling through to the Blane Valley get together on Friday, a chance to talk things Celtic, agree or disagree, but always politely and with respect, something conspicuous by its absence on this blog these days.
We all know who the sad perennial miscreants are – ignore them and deprive them of the oxygen of dialogue.
JOE FILIPPIS HAIRCUT on 1ST DECEMBER 2015 12:48 PM
TONYDONNELL67. Will you stop it fella or there will be no one left on the blog to chat with your driving them all away.H.H. :- )
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/#comments
Grown men too? Spitting the dummy out, not a mention of the guy on the other article, telling me to watch myself, and along the lines that I may put in my place soon if I don’t watch myself, aweeeeeee nawwwwwww that was ok, no problem with that post, now I know how Lenny felt.
Tony’s ok but he brigs it on himself type of garbage. No doubt the Lenny comparison will get taken out of context, but, hey ho.
We all know who the sad perennial miscreants are – ignore them and deprive them of the oxygen of dialogue. – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/comment-page-2/#comment-2729743
I totally agree with you, well said that man.
Jobo…
How the hell will I know what weather EK will be sending down to Castlemilk now?
Take care mate. HH
TD67
I think you are under a misapprehension in relation to the purpose and traditions of CQN. I personally find this deeply annnoying…
SIPSINI. Hows the foot ? H.H.
I see John James is back up. I really don’t know whether this guy is a hun or not as his latest blog could have been written by Auldheid a year ago. Has he been sent a copy of the Res 12 stuff and knows where this is going to end up ? See for yourself at ….
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/the-joy-of-easy-listening/
Something about this is bugging me, I remember the guy couldn’t hit back or he’d loose his job. And as I said, TD in my expert opinion is exactly the type of liberty taking bully that would use that.
” Actually no, Hamiltontim Tim just couldent let it go, and started bumping his gums again as I remember him when I met him, a cantankerous radical nutter, like a dog with a bone, and his sidekick with him was just as bad if not worse, type of guys who say ….why you drinking Carling they only pay there workers minimum wage, you should be drinking Tennants, they pay the living wage……yup you know the type, couldent have a dump unless you debated who made the toilet paper, boring as f…” – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/one-for-the-zonal-detesters-playing-ashley/comment-page-12/#comments
Now everyone knows teachers will loose their job if convicted, right ?
sipsini on 1st December 2015 1:01 pm
its a plain and simple attempt to involve us in an argument, pitiful really. responding to this gives energy to their argument, and no one with any grasp of the facts or understanding of the issue would be fooled by it
if that piece is anything to go by we need one of weeminger’s plug in’s for all telegraph content instead of a reaction from celtic – my head hurts with the stupidity (on several levels) of a national newspaper publishing it
TD67
Afraid you misinterpret my comment –
We all know who the sad perennial miscreants are – ignore them and deprive them of the oxygen of dialogue.
As you are frequently rude, disrespectful and oft times misinformed, I would include you as a prime example of those to be ignored !
CULTSBHOY. Is CQN not an open forum to discuss mainly Celtic issues but it does allow coverage of other topics ? It always to my knowledge been self moderated and that in the main works well however,there have been many unfortunate spats in the past and many good posters have left the blog but CQN continues to go on. H.H.
https://t.co/SIJFqhoGZi
Mr Williams is an adherent to the succulent lamb school of journalism.His 54 beats 44 article is best avoided.
Jobo
Well said, tiresome is too weak to describe the “banter” on here lately. I have been very quiet lately due to personal reasons, even my mind numbing gym updates have been less frequent.
This is because this blog just is not entertaining any more and the information part is just recycled stuff.
I am with you , Jobo, enjoy your festive period, I will be trying to do the same thing.
CultsBhoy can not relate to Celtic Board ambitions on or off the park
its not just cqn, its common decency. i have my angry moments and occasionally post in haste, but the language that I’ve seen on the blog recently and some of the posts make for very ugly reading.
I do agree though, it’s Paul’s blog, the comments are an add on to it, and some people really should have far more respect for what he provides for us all
Jobo Baldie
I’ve been fed up for weeks with the general (though not universal) mud slinging, name calling, drivel on what was once the number one go-to site in all of t’internet.
I think a lot of us feel like this,all the best for the festive season.
CULTSBHOY CAN NOT RELATE TO CELTIC BOARD AMBITIONS ON OR OFF THE PARK on 1ST DECEMBER 2015 1:08 PM
TD67
I think you are under a misapprehension in relation to the purpose and traditions of CQN. I personally find this deeply annnoying…
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/comment-page-2/#comment-2729744
Yes I could tell as soon as I saw your nickname.
William Hill Scottish Cup Fourth Round draw today
Stuart McCall will help conduct draw at 2pm live on Sky Sports News
Does that mean the Sevco ball will be a ‘knuckle ball’ ?
Joe Fillipi
you are spot on – key phrases are ‘Celtic issues’, ‘self moderating’…
What its not is a forum to make ongoing personal attacks on ther posters who don’t share your views.
CQN is IMO the thinking man’s Celtic forum – most folk abide by the spirit of open debate on the topic not the poster.
I often disagree with Paul67’s take and say so. However its his opinion or leader I don’t like. I don’t know him but he strikes me as a fine fella and I have a lot of respect for what he does and how he conducts himself as a representative of Celtic supporters.
A few of us have met each other but largely speaking we don’t really know the people behind the monikers.
Debate the opinions/issues – avoid petty personal attacks is the spirit of the blog as I understand it…
HH
CB
Jobo – have a Great Christmas, you will be missed………..
……. the Flouncers an’ the Forty Ouncers will be here when you get back.
Undoubtedly.
HH
As you are frequently rude, disrespectful and oft times misinformed, I would include you as a prime example of those to be ignored ! – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/comment-page-2/#comment-2729757
Awe ok, right sorry, picked you up wrong there, my bad.
JOE FILIPPIS HAIRCUT…
Getting back to normal, thanks for asking.
The arguments on here has to stop, or it will only myself and Tony D left :))
Right Tony. I’ve made an appointment for anger management for yourself and some others on here.
The dress code is… A Celtic onesie, pipe and a smile.
I realise the smile might be hard, just give it a try, as we are all tims.
Haven’t a scoop what yer on about, are you on it?
Now everyone knows teachers will loose their job if convicted, right ? – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/comment-page-2/#comment-2729761
TD67
Are you Lady C in disguise? ( joke)
get with the isues/debate leave the personal stuff aside..
Canamalar
This is it clicky improves the whole blog.
SIPSINI on 1ST DECEMBER 2015 1:26 PM
Don’t you worry about me my friend, I’m good, contrary to popular belief.
You’re not supporting Celtic with all this nonsense, Tony …. Just stirring the pot, for the sake of it …… C’mon now, behave yourself FGS….
paul67
great piece
interesting stuff from johnjames
The Joy of Easy Listening
Jolyon Maugham QC is described in the Legal 500 as “a natural advocate with a good eye for an argument.” The law was not his first calling, but as is increasingly common he engaged in a two year conversion course in European Legal Studies at Durham university and the Catholic university of Leuven (Belgium.) He is a member of Devereux Chambers which I have some familiarity with as I have instructed one of his colleagues.
Mr Maugham writes a blog on tax avoidance schemes and loves nothing more than the glare of publicity. When invited to appear on a Radio Scotland show the producer, in his infinite wisdom, decided that any counterpoint would come from journalists whom had no training in nor experience of the nuances of taxation law. In many ways it was analagous to watching the £6.2m per annum Rangers squad wipe the floor with the part-time players of Dumbarton. It was a foregone conclusion.
The joint liquidators of BDO, in consultation with five members of The Liquidation Committe, decided on a majority decision to seek leave to appeal. As far as I am concerned this is throwing good money after bad. Should two QCs endorse BDO’s petition, three judges at the Inner Court of Session will decide whether BDO can instruct Mr Maugham or a lesser light at The Supreme Court. In the past six years only three from forty-nine applications have been successful.
As I stated in a previous article, the overwhelming majority of journalists working in Scotland are Rangers supporters. Furthermore Roddy Forsyth, who has been widely reported as being a debenture holder in RFC plc, has a vested interest in removing £74m from the BDO pot. Mr Forsyth stated: “If leave to appeal is granted by the Court of Session in Edinburgh, the debate about the propriety of 15 honours won by Rangers between 2001 and 2011 will be shelved for at least another year.”
This statement led to a tsunami of tweets condemning my factual analysis of the situation. Mr Forsyth then had his customary go at CFC by mentioning the Juninho EBT, despite the fact that all taxes on this EBT were paid. A more apposite example would have been Campbell Ogilvie’s £95,000 EBT golden handshake where no tax was ever paid. He could chosen from an expansive list that includes Walter Smith and Graham Souness who both were beneficiaries of EBT when no longer employed by Rangers.
Mr Forsyth mentioned London based tax experts who were supportive of the decision by BDO to seek leave to appeal. He was probably referring to Mr Maugham, who would be delighted to represent BDO at The Supreme Court as his fees for doing so would be significantly more than he would receive in the High Courts of Justice. The £20,000 per day commanded by Sports Direct’s QC Adam Lewis might not be sufficient to retain the services of Mr Maugham. Barristers are not permitted to advertise. Appearing in a Radio Scotland broadcast is one way of circumventing these rules. As is writing a blog.
Mr Williams, who writes for The Herald, is yet another ardent Rangers supporter whose articles would be better received if they appeared in Chris Union Jack’s Rangers fanzine at The Evening Times. He stated that if the Court of Session refused to grant BDO leave to appeal, they could take the matter to the Supreme Court irrespective of their decision. To compound his stupidity he referred to 2014 statute. If he had actually read it properly, he would have noted that in a majority decision there is no need to seek leave to appeal. He should have also noted that any petition for appeal that is subsequently denied cannot proceed to the Supreme Court.
Mr Williams is an adherent to the ‘succulent lamb‘ school of journalism. He would never let the facts interfere with a Rangers puff piece. If Mr Williams had included ’54 beats 44’ in his byline, no-one would have been surprised.
This site was set up to convey the truth and the facts to Rangers supporters who were badly served by puff pieces that contrived to conceal systemic tax evasion from 1999-2011.
There was no cause for celebration, just as there was no need for euphoria when the Inner Court of Session upheld HMRC’s appeal. If those who engaged in the tax evasion are called to account, I will be delighted. This has been my consistent view. Why should playing for Rangers from 1999-2011 be tax-free? Hugh Adam knew that it was cheating, as did Dave King and Paul Murray.
However, the SFA are inordinately compromised. Stewart Regan approved both King and Murray as fit and proper despite their positions as directors in a crooked conspiracy to defraud the exchequer and Scottish professional football. Furthermore, Sandy Bryson allowed Rangers to participate in Scottish football and UEFA competitions when perpetrating illegal tax evasion schemes. Is it any wonder that Stewart Regan imposed himself on the commission to whom the Smith commission reported. Is it any wonder he and his two colleagues reduced the scope of the Smith report to exclude the Discounterd Option Scheme that was already proven to be illegal and conceded by Rangers under the advice of counsel.
There is no possibility of title-stripping. Even if the SPFL’s hand was forced, Stewart Regan would set himself up as the appellate court and kick this ball into the longest grass he could find.
The SFA represent the best interests of Rangers. They will breach any of their articles of association to assist Rangers in any way they can. They have withdrawn press releases at Rangers behest. They will allow UEFA participation when even a cursory awareness of UEFA regulations would deem it inappropriate. They will approve Craig Whyte and Charles Green as fit and proper as anyone who can promote Rangers interests will always be given their support, even if he is a convicted criminal. Should Rangers ever be seen to openly flaunt the SFA’s rules and regulations, it is settled over a sumptuous dinner in a private dining room in a hotel in Glasgow.
The SFA will oppose title-stripping as they know that any judicial review would prove their collusion with Rangers beyond any reasonable doubt. They live in fear of Ashley’s petition going to court as they know they will be exposed. This is why Dave King was compelled to do whatever he could to assist the SFA in avoiding any scrutiny. As I’m sure Mr Regan pointed out to King, the SFA have a history of supporting Rangers and appointing their former executives as chairman. It’s now payback time for Mr King.
get with the isues/debate leave the personal stuff aside.. – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/so-stressed-juninho-film-productions-get-an-airing/comment-page-2/#comment-2729766
Aye right just sit back and let people slag me, the club / board, naaaa never gonny happen mate, running down the club/ board may sit well with you, but not with me, someone gets personal with me, they get it back, my life, my rules, and unless it goes outside the code of conduct in here, I will continue to do that.