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Support and paradoxical intent

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I suppose it is inevitable, this far into a period of domination, that draws and defeats attract disproportionate criticism.  We are not used to defeats, recently we have not even been used to a season without a treble, so reactions to dropping five points in a week have few reference points.

In the social media era, players are not immune to what is being said about them, some of them no doubt reflecting on years of successful service behind them, who perhaps feel deserted when the call was made.

I know what you’re thinking, this is classic paradoxical intent.  We react to that which makes us anxious in a way that can only increase our anxiety.

Neil Lennon is dealing with the absence of Forrest, Edouard, Johnston, Jullien, Bitton, Elhamed and Barkas, and easing the return to fitness of Ajeti, Christie and Griffiths, while hurting at some painful results.

We travel to France tomorrow then back in the early hours of Friday before it all goes on the line, again, at Hampden on Sunday.  All while Aberdeen rest and prepare.  In these circumstances, this is a tough ask.  Tougher still without support, and I don’t mean supporters, I mean actual support.  This is a no-brainer time, circle the wagons and get back to doing what we always do.

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  1. TT.

     

     

    I don’t want tae bore you but I also knew my paternal great grampa and his brother landed in the Vale from the Antrim coast in the late 1870s,

     

     

    ———————-

     

     

    any subject you post is always fascinating to me, so keep it up.

     

     

    always a pleasure never a chore.

  2. WINNINGGEMMILL @9:44pm

     

    CELT-O’NEILL

     

    Bravo

     

    WG

     

    ~~~~~~

     

    Cheers! :)

     

    Sorry for very late reply, had to switch off laptop, and go to bed, as ordered by my better half. hh

  3. Been out and about, basically doing the shopping.

     

    Thanks to everyone who replied to my request re. family history.

     

    Does anyone know how to get access to Irish records.

     

    Thanks in advance

  4. Big W- Gene- no info on MJ,I could possibly see Ralston at RB,Duffy is used to an old fashioned back 4,might avoid him getting taken out to the sides,a la Sunday.

  5. request from last night –

     

     

    https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/webimg/RUxNODYxMTQxODc=.jpg?crop=982:524,smart&width=990

     

     

    https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/webimg/RUxNODYxMTQxODY=.jpg?&width=640

     

     

    https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/webimg/RUxNODYxMTQxOTA=.jpg?&width=640

     

     

     

     

    Celtic v Falkirk – The Battle of Brockville Sports 1961

     

     

    Falkirk FC historian Michael White looks back on the ‘second’ Battle of Falkirk almost 60 years ago.

     

    By Michael White

     

     

    Friday, 1st May 2020, 7:30 am

     

     

    Most historians refer to the two Battles of Falkirk and they are well chronicled in history books.

     

     

    However, there was a third battle and it is not often written about. Anyone who was at the Brockville Sports in the summer of 1961 will never forget the madness and mayhem that took place when the semi-finals of the Five-a-Side Tournament were staged.

     

     

    The final score was Falkirk 4-3 Celtic. These were not the numbers of goals scored- it was the number of players left on the park at the final whistle. It was one of the most extraordinary games ever seen at the old ground and landed the players in deep trouble with the SFA who described the events as “serious”.

     

     

    For those who aren’t old enough to remember the Brockville Sports, the Five-a-Side Tournament was the highlight of the day and several big- name players took part.

     

     

    The games took place on the full-sized pitch and on a hot summer day were strength-sapping.

     

    There were no substitutes and quite often an outfield player would be the keeper.

     

     

     

    Falkirk faced Celtic in one of the semi-finals and the omens were not good.

     

     

    Celtic were not happy about being allocated the little gym under the main stand as their changing accommodation which was “basic” to say the least.

     

     

    The floor was dusty and there were no coat-pegs to hang clothes on.

     

     

     

    Referee John Paterson from Linlithgow had only recently been appointed as a Class One referee, and showed he meant business when he booked local boy Davie Provan of Rangers and Bobby Roberts of Motherwell in an earlier game.

     

     

    The referee was given the choice of the semi-finals and he chose the Falkirk- Celtic one. He must have regretted that decision.

     

     

    Celtic fielded a strong side and included Pat Crerand, Billy McNeill, Jim Kennedy, Duncan MacKay as well as Mike Jackson.

     

     

    Crerand, who had been sent off playing for Scotland against Czechoslovakia in the World Cup game in Bratislava in May, was first to go.

     

     

     

    He started complaining that a Falkirk player had passed back to his keeper from within his own half.

     

     

    A heated argument started with Falkirk’s Irish defender Tommy Lowry and then all hell broke loose.

     

     

    Crerand said: “The scuffle was not my fault. But no doubt I’ll get the blame, as if things were not bad enough. There is nothing I can say about it.”

     

     

    The Scotland star was already due to start a suspension and miss the first two League Cup games. The crowd could hardly believe their eyes, as the tackles flew in and the tension mounted. Billy McNeill claimed he had been hit by a stone thrown from behind the goal and then Mike Jackson was felled by a tackle from Tommy Lowry. The pair started to trade blows and the beleaguered official had no option but to send both players off.

     

     

     

    The respective quotes from the offending players are interesting.

     

     

    Mike Jackson said: “I was tackled and brought down by a Falkirk player. As I got up we clashed. I had to defend myself. Both the other player and myself were ordered to the pavilion. He was cheered all the way. I got the cat-calls.” He knew he was in big trouble with the SFA panel, as he had been caught playing in unauthorised football in Spain.

     

     

    Tommy Lowry had only re-signed for The Bairns on the day before and said: “It was quite a re-signing celebration wasn’t it? But what would you have done? I had to defend myself. I don’t know what steps the club will be taking as a result of this. None of the officials mentioned it to me afterwards.

     

     

    The referee, subject to the all too familiar SFA gagging edicts, said: “I’m not allowed to talk about any incident. But it was a stormy baptism in the Senior Grade.”

     

     

     

    Celtic’s only official at the tournament was trainer Bob Rooney and he certainly had more than enough to report on when he reported for duty at Parkhead on the following Monday morning. The implications for Celtic were considerable. McNeill and Jackson were already in trouble for their Spanish adventures and Crerand was already banned for two games. Duncan MacKay had already handed in a transfer request before the events in Falkirk.

     

     

    Falkirk faced Motherwell in the final of the tournament and lost 3-1.

     

     

    The eventual disciplinary punishments were meted out by the SFA and Crerand was fined £75, while Jackson and Lowry were each fined £30.

     

     

    HISTORY: Volume Five of The Falkirk Bairns available for download

  6. CELTIC winger James Forrest has seen a specialist about the ankle problem that has sidelined him for the past month after the injury failed to heal as Parkhead medical staff had hoped.

     

     

    Forrest limped off in the first-half of the Scottish champions’ Europa League qualifier against Riga in Latvia back in September.

     

     

    The 29-year-old hasn’t featured for the Glasgow club since and his absence has been keenly felt during their three game winless run.

     

     

    Celtic manager Neil Lennon confirmed yesterday that the Scotland internationalist had been sent for an expert examination after he failed to respond as expected to treatment.

     

     

    “James is actually seeing a specialist today about his ankle,” said Lennon. “It hasn’t healed as we’d hoped it would and he may need more time in a protective boot or it may need something else entirely. We’ll know more about that in the next day or two.”

     

     

    Meanwhile, Lennon has revealed that Christopher Jullien, the French centre half who last played in the Premiership win over Ross County on September 12, has been sent abroad to aid his recovery from a back injury.

     

     

    “He’s over in Germany having intensive treatment on his back,” he said. “But we’re looking at few weeks from now before he returns to training.

     

     

    “Christopher’s receiving extensive, round-the-clock physiotherapy. He’ll stay over there for another week or so and we’ll assess him once he comes back. He’s had a lot of discomfort in his back, although the scans have shown nothing significant.”

     

     

    Elsewhere, Lennon admitted that Mikey Johnston, the winger who hasn’t played since football restarted after the shutdown in August, is still some way from returning to training.

     

     

    “Mikey is a wee bit away yet,” he said. “He hasn’t played any football since January and he’s also had surgery during that time.

     

     

    “He has an injury against St Johnstone and then required operations on both calfs so it’s going to be a slow burner for him and he’ll probably pick up a few niggles on his road back.”

     

     

     

    Lennon is optimistic that Nir Bitton and Odsonne Edouard, who both tested positive for Covid-19 during the international break, will be available to play for Celtic again against Lille in the Europa League in France tomorrow evening.

     

     

    “Odsonne has trained for the last few days with a smaller group and Nir also trained, although his sessions are a little bit modified at the minute,” he said. “We’ll see how they are tomorrow but I’m hoping they’ll both be fit to travel.

     

     

    “It’s a welcome boost having Odsonne back, but I’m not expecting him to hit the ground running because he’s been out since the St Johnstone game. The same goes for Nir, who was in really good form before they picked up the virus.

     

     

    “We’re getting a few bodies back now. Ryan Christie played at the weekend and Tom Rogic made his first start of the season so the squad is starting to look stronger again. Hatem Elhamed was out on the grass today, but he won’t be available for Thursday.”

     

     

    Meanwhile, Lennon will make a decision on whether Vasilis Barkas, the Greek goalkeeper who suffered a back knock against Milan last Thursday night and missed the Aberdeen game on Sunday, can face Lille before the Group H match.

     

     

    “Vasilis is okay,” he said. “He’s trained the last couple of days and we’ll assess him again. He’s got back pain and an ongoing problem with a shoulder, but we’ll see how he is.”

     

     

    Neil Lennon

  7. Turkeybhoy

     

    If productive discourse was possible, I would say try having a view-sharing dialogue with your fellow Celtic supporters even when the opinion gap seems unbridgeable.

     

    Unfortunately, I feel that views are now too entrenched .

     

    I ignore the MSSM because of its anti-Celtic agenda.

     

    Some posters,because, I think, they are so desperate for Celtic to succeed , criticise every perceived weakness in our Club and unintentionally give weight to that same agenda of the dreadful Scottish Media.

     

    I wish they wouldn`t but they wish I wasn`t so positive about our team. C`est la vie.

  8. The world of football and sport in general is not as predictable as we’d like to think. At the winter break in January we were running on empty while newco had good reason to believe they were on target for the title. We came back rejuvenated and they came back flat.

     

    By March, as our game against them at Ibrox was approaching, their fans were once again resigned to losing to us. They had lost to the bottom team in the league twice, in quick succession, and If we had won at Ibrox, it is almost certain that Gerrard would have been out of work by the end of the season.

     

     

    They would have again been trying to rebuild with a new manager in situ.

     

     

    The Covid break allowed Gerrard, his staff and his players the chance to gather themselves together and emerge reinvigorated, just like we had done in January.

     

    This time it was our turn to come out flat,.

     

     

    And from the outside looking in, there is no rhyme or reason for it.

     

    On both occasions, the team that was on form has come out looking punch drunk.

     

    We had kept the team together and added a few into the mix while being able to reflect on 9iar and look forward to securing the quadruple treble and 10iar.

     

    They were terrified of this season.

     

     

    Covid and empty stadiums has been a massive spot of luck for Gerrard yet seems to be our curse.

     

     

    Go figure.

  9. St Tams

     

     

    Irish records? Try the National Archives, they have all the census records online from 1911 back and lots more besides. Key to Irish records is the Townland where your family lived. Each county has dozens, surname won’t get you far as you realise that half the county has the same name! The Anglican church in Ireland has also released the tithe records to the State which detail people, location, description of dwelling etc. and how much the Catholics owed them. The church of Ireland (sic) was the established church and therefore had a ‘right’ to levy a tax against the population even though 95% of the people weren’t members of the church, go figure!

     

    There will be no realise of the 1921 census in Ireland next year as it didn’t take place due to the War of Independence

  10. “DENIABHOY on 28TH OCTOBER 2020 3:54 PM

     

     

    The world of football and sport in general is not as predictable as we’d like to think”

     

     

    I linked to your comment with the intention of saying : So true.

     

     

    Then, I thought of some of the very predictable aspects of it as portrayed in the MSSM re Sevco !!

     

    Nevertheless, an interesting post.

  11. PS

     

    I am enjoying La Vuelta but as I don`t see it unti 7pm, don`t mention anything about today`s stage !

  12. It’s concerning if Forrest is having to get seen by another specialist. I’m assuming this could mean an even longer pay off – possible operation.

     

     

    We really need some more creativity down the right and take some pressure off Frimpong

  13. Just spoke with my daughter there, she has an obsessive personality as do her sisters, wonder where they got that from.

     

     

    Anyway for Ireland it was irishgenealogy.ie that unfortunately only goes back tae about 1870 and then its church records.

  14. So, back to PRONI

     

     

    no secret that I have an Orange heritage on my mothers side of the family.

     

     

    My mother played accordian in one of the Port bands, my granny who mostly brought me up was staunch until they got disowned with my fathers arrival on the scene in 65, and this wee bonnie catholic bhoy came along in 66.

     

     

    However my great granda on that side, a former Grand Master would happily let me play at his window on Teviot road, looking out to auchenbothie and the old rail-track before mid-auchenlech was built. He would give me money all the time, I had a pouch of Victorian coins he gave me and I lost it over the years, laugh about me being “celtic” but I dont ever recall anythin other than kindness and fondness, my mum was the apple of his eye, and I suppose it melted the bitterness away. He passed in 1970, but I still remember him well.

     

     

    Anyways,

     

    I always had the misconception that he was born in Ireland somewhere in Antrim, and started to search for him over there first, it never occured to me to even check if he was scottish.

     

    Turned out it was his own parents that were from Antrim and Belfast, but had appeared on the Port census in 1901(in a house with his own grandparents as well) and he was born in scotland sometime before that . So back to the PRONI records, I offcourse knew of the gerrymandering, the head of household voting eligability inbalance and anything goes to deny the catholic votes. But imagine my suprise to see all the males in the family appear on the Ulster covenant signatory list, as living in East Bread Street in Belfast.

     

     

    That intrigued me more, and I wondered if that then meant they would vote both here and there maintaining an address in both places. An old aunt suspected they did simply because they went back and forth across there for the events and the rallies and like them all were heavily political.

     

     

    As an aside, with the census records you can see how many rooms people were living in. Both sides of the family arrived in the port around the sametime 1890 ish. The catholic family of 10, lived in 2 rooms at Dardannels close at the Quayside , literally 30 steps off the boat, the head of the family was listed as “timber yard labourer”

     

    The protestant family of 6 lived in Ardgown Street, in a 3 bedroom flat, with a parlour , and kitchen and firplaces in all the rooms, the head of the family listed as “shipyard foreman”. I wonder if he ever took his bowler hat off ever.

  15. MAJESTIC HARTSON on 28TH OCTOBER 2020 4:09 PM

     

    It’s concerning if Forrest is having to get seen by another specialist. I’m assuming this could mean an even longer pay off – possible operation.

     

    We really need some more creativity down the right and take some pressure off Frimpong

     

     

    —–

     

     

    Step forward Karamoko Dembele surely? Great wee talent. What has happened there?

  16. The other day,someone mentioned a Sciatica medicine which he had found successful. I think it began with an `m`.

     

    Anyone?

  17. WINNINGEMMELL on 28TH OCTOBER 2020 12:57 PM

     

     

    TONTINE It would appear your visit was in 1957 as Ibbotson did not appear there in 1958 or 1959

     

     

    *cheers, ironically I would be back there with the same acquaintance a couple of months later for the LC Semi against the Bully Wee, mibbees that’s why my mother let me go.

  18. As an aside aside.

     

     

    On Geneaology, my dads American cousins were the ones who first really started searching everything out back in the 90;s . And Uncle Paddy would give me copies of everything he found out when back home.

     

     

    Beofre the online records, he employed some researcher that worked out of an office somewhere in Tyrone.

     

    i think it was called something like Ireland Geneology Researchers, something like that.

     

     

    I got chatting with a fella in work, who was trying to get started and I took all my papers in for him to see.

     

    Spread them on the desk, and another work pal Connor G, said, where did you get that stuff . I said Ireland Geneology Researchers

     

     

    He said I know “see the letter look at at who signed it.

     

     

    Dear Paddy, here is the latest document we found on your behalf ………… your researcher Connor G.

     

     

    Connor is from Drumquinn and did that job while going through college.

     

     

    Unbelievable coincidence.

     

     

    It is a small world, but I wouldnt want to paint it.

     

     

    Right back to work.

  19. Big Wavy

     

    Karamoke is a strange one – recognised as an excellent prospect – a couple of cameo appearances – turns up on the bench now and again. We are desperate for someone who can take on defenders.

  20. GENE on 28TH OCTOBER 2020 4:45 PM

     

    TOSB

     

     

    This site is well known for it’s intellectual guff.

     

    …………………………………

     

     

    I know. I’m one of the main contributors. 🤣

  21. Hot Smoked – I won’t spoilt it for you other than to say it was another exciting last climb.

     

    Enjoy it.

     

     

    PS – the organisers must be kicking themselves that every stage is North of Madrid. We are enjoying 25 degrees and sunshine every day 🌞🌞🌞😎😎😎

  22. Think I would rather listen to the guffers supporting the manager and the team than those perma ragers who don’t seem to support anything yet demand everything.

     

    FTB

  23. Hot Smoked & Fourstone Coppi

     

     

    Just watched a movie there called “The Racer” it’s set around the TDF 1998 when it had 3 day in Ireland. Not an Oscar winner but interesting for anyone into cycling.

  24. SAINT STIVS on 28TH OCTOBER 2020 3:12 PM

     

     

    TT. don’t want tae bore you but I also knew my paternal great grampa and his brother landed in the Vale from the Antrim coast in the late 1870s,

     

     

    any subject you post is always fascinating to me, so keep it up always a pleasure never a chore.

     

     

    *thanks have another wee one here, this is both ancestry and Celtic related.

     

     

    *I’ve always figured that we are closer tae our mother’s side that our da’s possibly more tae dae with visiting them.

     

     

    My mother had 7 siblings, 4 were like her “Black Irish” and this was fae her da’ side, the other 4 were sandy heided with a ruggish complexion from her mother’s family. Googy Bhoy formerly of this parish’s da was of the latter.

     

     

    Anyway, when I was a young lhad I was transferred up tae Duntiglennan Estates in Duntocher, it was the first private development I had been on; formerly it was Glenside in Dumbarton, Alexandria, Renton and Dalmuir Flats.

     

     

    A lot of the employees had been on other Wimpey sites most notably was Earnock Estates in Hamilton and travelled through, approx 30 miles or less than an hour away, it was also the first time I had come across the gentle citizens of larkhaw.

     

     

    There was a plumber on the job who took a liking tae me, now it’s easy tae say because I was a Tim but he had an apprentice who never had his scarf off plus this was a building site where at least 99% of us bhoys were Celtic supporters and we all sat at the same table in the trailer discussing, at last, a good Celtic side, this was 1965.

     

     

    I would periodically see him, mainly at Parkheid, after I had moved tae other jobs, including walking intae the lavvy at a Clancy Brothers concert tae drink our kerry oot tae be met by a chorus of “some have come from the land beyond the sea”, and the legendary 3-1 LC game where big kai yai yippee missed the penalty.

     

     

    Jimmy had the same name as my great grandfather and he also resembled Googy Bhoy’s da, but it wasn’t until I read the family tree and the maternal side of my family had came from the Hamilton area that the penny dropped, mibbees just mibbees he liked me because of a famial link we never knew about.