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Systems more important than the manager

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Getting rid of the last guy is always the easy part.  It is the day later, when your mind turns to appointing a successor, that your worries really start.  The great problem with managers is that their careers do not proceed with success or failure evident in a linear manner.

The guy sitting joint second in England with a provincial Midlands club was sacked five years ago by Liverpool, who are adrift in sixth, despite having a genuine top tier manager.  Davie Moyes reputation was fixed as one of the English game’s tired old options before he got a chance to return to West Ham and has them in a Champions League spot.

Mourinho is the classic example.  Champions League winner with two clubs but he presides over the descent of Tottenham.  Guardiola needs all the money in the world to keep Man City ahead of Leicester and still awaits a Champions League since parting with his Argentinian Midas.  I enjoy watching City but Pep’s eight years there and at Bayern failed to deliver the trophy both clubs wanted.

All you really know about a manager with an impeccable record of improving players and teams is that his form will soon decline; they all do.

Systems bring sustained success in football.  Deeply embedded, appropriately resourced and continually reviewed systems: recruitment, development and coaching systems in particular.  Get this right and even Klopp would be able to push Liverpool above sixth.

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  1. are EH and his coaches still waiting on a call.

     

     

    if that is true re Toney and we ended up with a dud from West Ham , heaven help us.

  2. Systems are important but a good manager will develop players into better ones in my opi, for what that’s worth.

  3. ADI_DASSLER NOT FOR 2ND BEST on 25TH FEBRUARY 2021 11:54 AM

     

     

     

     

    JHB

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    ‘Why would independence mean SNP’

     

     

     

     

     

     

    ####

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Because having gained power they won’t want to relinquish it.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Just look at the state of them at the moment.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Stop believing in unicorns. They don’t exist.

  4. Adi- a sacking turned into a resignation, I heard his interview on Sunday night, he was talking about being the man to rebuild for next season, he wasn’t going anywhere….

  5. Pingback: Systems more important than the manager | Celtic FC News Now

  6. The thing you need to start with is fitness.

     

    It was there for all to see that we are unfit as a team.

  7. Football is constantly evolving at the top end …. even in the SPFL dozzy defenders learned after 18 months what happened when Scott Sinclair dipped his left shoulder bit worrying that Eddy looking right and then trying to dink a nutmeg through defenders legs seems to have run its course ….

     

     

    Previously NL used to rotate the front 3 every 20 minutes , so that defenders were kept honest , Hooper , Jamsie and Kris …. after a while this time round just felt that we got complacent and the main tactic was just pass the ball about …. totally hampered this year with no wingers …. hence the laborious build up for an opening…

     

     

    Need a new template which should be relatively straightforward, square peg in square hole … and kick on …. random German bloke or Norway manager …. better movement in the team fewer touches etc …. absolutely no reason why we can’t kick on with the right guidance and direction from the top

     

     

    We need to be a good European team who just happen to play in Scotland as opposed to a Scottish outfit with occasional good nights in Europe

  8. Disagree

     

     

    Celtic could play any system without success.

     

     

    The current squad wont away and are non triers. Pep couldn’t get a response from this group. They are disgruntled with their lot they want wages like Kieran Tierney, or Shane Duffy.

     

     

    Good teams can play multiple systems. good teams analyse their opponents. the system has to be fluid and managers can change it even through a game. What system works for Spurs doesn’t work for Arsenal.

     

     

    What good coaches do is play a system that plays to their teams strengths and exploits the weaknesses of their system.

     

     

    No matter what system Liverpool played this season they weren’t good enough without Van Dyke.

     

     

    Think Leicester who won EPl and next season sacked Ranieri

  9. Big Georges Fan Club - Hail, Hail, Wee Oscar on

    Reasonable article from Pablo. Although I don’t disagree with much of what he’s said, I don’t think Mourino is the best example – he has been on the slide for a few years.

     

     

    “…Systems bring sustained success in football. Deeply embedded, appropriately resourced and continually reviewed systems: recruitment, development and coaching systems in particular…” – partially agree with this – it provides the backbone of the club. Two issues though:

     

     

    1. it doesn’t appear that we have any of the above in place (and to be fair to P67, I don’t think he is implying that we do have)

     

     

    2. notwithstanding the variability in the examples he has mentioned, you simply cannot overlook the crucial importance of the manager – he can mask a poor underlying system or he can entirely negate the benefits of an existing good structure – feel free to select your own examples.

     

     

    It isn’t an either / or argument – we need a good infrastructure AND a good manager who brings an ethos that the infrastructure underpins.

     

     

    HH

     

    BGFC

  10. Hi all

     

     

    If i had my pick of new management team id go with Martinez and Maloney.Tbh dont think its impossible either.

  11. Chairbhoy (from previous thread)

     

     

    So, despite everything you are still going to be unreasonable.

     

     

    Well, there’s a way to frame a debate! Is it unreasonable to disagree with you?

     

     

     

     

     

     

    You pluck statements out of the air and state them like they’re facts – they are Not.

     

     

    I state my opinions and I provide back up evidence for them. They rarely ever aspire to the status of FACT that you bestow upon them. When something is a fact- I will state it so.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The fact remains that Brendan Rodgers said that he is open to a return to Celtic.

     

     

    Yeah- so he says. Does that make it a FACT.

     

     

    On the 24th February 2019, two days before he left for Leicester, he said:-

     

     

    “”My job is to concentrate on the football aspect, and that is with Celtic,” Rodgers said.

     

     

    “I’ve been stood here for two and a half years and I’ve been asked similar questions, my message is always very, very clear, I’m very concentrated on the game.”

     

     

    The Celtic manager was speaking to BBC Scotland Sportsound before his side’s Premiership game against Motherwell, where he said his concentration was “fully on getting the three points”.

     

     

    In April 2017 it was reported :-

     

     

    “Celtic boss Brendan Rodgers signed a new four-year deal with the “greatest club in the world” and hopes his star players stay for the ride. The Northern Irishman arrived on a one-year rolling contract last summer but has committed himself to the Parkhead club until 2021.

     

     

    layers will always look at the manager and see how long he is connected to the club.

     

     

    “If I am committed to the club fully, hopefully that makes it a little bit easier for them to make that decision. That is important.”

     

     

    The former Swansea and Liverpool boss insists the decision to sign his new deal was “very easy.”

     

     

    “It felt right,” he said. “We have been talking for a little while and it felt the right thing to do. I couldn’t be happier.

     

     

    “But of course not just a decision of mine. I’m very grateful for the commitment of the board.

     

     

    “Professionally and personally I’m in a great place.

     

     

    “A few years ago I might have been in a rush. But you learn through experience that you have to cherish what you have.

     

     

    “It’s the beginning of the journey, we have only been here a short time.

     

     

    “But there’s a lot more to achieve, development of the club and that is exciting.”

     

     

    “For me Celtic is the greatest club in the world.

     

     

    “I have the privilege to manage it and while I manage it I want to make it the best I possibly can.

     

     

    “I just love being here, love helping the players develop and making the team better.”

     

    ———————————

     

     

    Turns out we were not the greatest club in his view and he had no compunction about negotiating players’ contracts, while he was planning to be off elsewhere, after all.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    You lost the debate over both Brendan Rodgers and John McGinn – I stated at the time and now with 20/20 hindsight the evidence is all there.

     

     

    It was Peter Lawwell’s arrogance and incompetence that drove Brendan Rodgers to leave and screw up John McGinn’s transfer.

     

     

    It is rare to see someone adopt the triple roles of advocate, judge and jury in an argument.

     

     

    Forgive me, if I refuse to bow to this somewhat biased verdict. It is possible to believe that PL screwed up royally on negotiations AND that BR was fed up here and looking for an exit AND that John McGinn had a choice and chose Villa above Celtic.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    They kept their dignity and did the right thing going on to be successes in the most demanding League in football.

     

     

    They did choose to trial themselves in this most demanding league- I have no problem with them doing so- I fully understand it. But spare me the delusion that they would both have been at Celtic if it wasn’t for PL. That is a fairy story.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Peter – it’s all about perception – Lawwell has been found out and leaves as a failure.

     

    History will not be kind to Pedro and Lenny I’m afraid.

     

     

    I have little interest in how history judges PL but I am happy to await the ACTUAL judgement of history on Neil Lennon rather than your projection of it. Bring the subject up again in 5 to 10 years time and we’ll see if the kind of pejorative tones that have been prevalent of late on Neil are given any houseroom.

     

     

     

     

     

    Good Luck to John Kennedy – a man like Rodgers and McGinn who truly know what Celtic are about. As does Shane Duffy but what his random inclusion in your argument is there for escapes me – another squirrel perchance!?

     

     

    John McGinn has no more idea than me of what Celtic are about. He is a fan of the club, like myself but neither of us ever played there or were employed there. One of us WAS offered the chance, though.

     

     

    The relevance of the inclusion of Shane Duffy was far from random. He is a player whose contribution to Celtic on the playing side has been far from stellar, so, even though he messed up his audition with Celtic, I have more time and afection for Shane than I do for McGinn because he was willing to come to us and he tried, but failed, to contribute. John McGinn did not even try. It’s that simple.

     

     

    It’s the wasted energy of pining more for a girl who wanted nothing to do with you rather than being grateful to those who were willing to give you a whirl.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    As I say, JK will surprise a few…

  12. Bhoy From The Boyne on

    Rebuild the football operations structure and appoint a head coach who fits the ethos / long term strategy of football operations dept.

     

     

    The head coach role then becomes less of a risk, these head coach guys can be moved in and out as needed but the operations model, culture etc is secure.

     

     

    Alas, you avoid a Brendan Rodgers scenario that disrupts the entire operation as his resignation did in Feb ’19 and reduce the risk of getting the next appointment wrong over the long term – see Neil Lennon.

     

     

    Its called strategic planning!

     

     

    And it has been badly missing this past decade to the point that our domestic competitive advantage has been reduced because of this negligence.

     

     

    Just like the board has failed to implement any sort of threat assessment planning these past years – see Dubai farce!

  13. NOTTHEBUS

     

     

    yes , i’m on the correct site, simply telling it as it is, what is the point in not saying it as it is and covering up the poor group of players we currently have and not pointing out their weaknesses , we require a complete clear out from top to bottom , we have no wingers, or a decent goalie full backs or centre backs , gie’s a break.

  14. Bhoy From The Boyne on

    I will however credit the board for ensuring we had sufficient cash reserves at bank to endure a pandemic!

  15. The emphasis on systems is one-sided; it matters who you put into the system, just as the quality of the players matters as well as the formation and tactics. You could have a new system but if you put Neil Lennon, Peter Lawwell and the Irish Raj into it you risk getting the same problems with the same outcome as we now face.

  16. RC

     

     

    Not sure what smart ass comments and constantly listing problems achieves if you are indeed genuine.

  17. PeterLatchfordsBelly on

    I agree with this. A robust system would have mitigated Lennon’s many limitations and poor decisions this season.

     

     

    It begs the question – why has a new club managed to develop a far superior system in a few years that our venerated CEO was able to put in place over 17 years?

     

     

    This guy’s ‘system’ amounted to his personal power and patronage. It’s why we got Ajeti not Toney.

  18. System needs to be agreed upon. Then appoint appropriate DOF/sporting director to oversee. When selecting the head coach to look after the 1st team, his successor should earmarked. Shelf life of head coach in modern games 3-4 years. As seamless a transition as possible should plotted. Everyone needs to buy into the system. System must not be completely rigid, but always strive to embrace new ideas and technology. It needs to extract the maximum out of available resources. Otherwise it becomes redundant.

  19. PeterLatchfordsBelly on

    Bigbhoy

     

     

    I share your negative view of our players. Lenny has been poor this season, but he’s been let down by a bunch of greedy, vain primadonnas. Not the whole squad, but too many of them. Place needs gutted. Give me a hungry player ahead of a non-trying talent any day.

  20. All season we have played as a team of individuals and not collectively as a team.

     

    Waiting on a bit of individual brilliance from Eddy , Moi or Turnbull

     

    . To save us

  21. NOTTHEBUS

     

     

    comments I make are my opinion, you may disagree and that’s your prerogative , they are not ‘smart ass’ .

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