Getting rid of the last guy is always the easy part. It is the day later, when your mind turns to appointing a successor, that your worries really start. The great problem with managers is that their careers do not proceed with success or failure evident in a linear manner.
The guy sitting joint second in England with a provincial Midlands club was sacked five years ago by Liverpool, who are adrift in sixth, despite having a genuine top tier manager. Davie Moyes reputation was fixed as one of the English game’s tired old options before he got a chance to return to West Ham and has them in a Champions League spot.
Mourinho is the classic example. Champions League winner with two clubs but he presides over the descent of Tottenham. Guardiola needs all the money in the world to keep Man City ahead of Leicester and still awaits a Champions League since parting with his Argentinian Midas. I enjoy watching City but Pep’s eight years there and at Bayern failed to deliver the trophy both clubs wanted.
All you really know about a manager with an impeccable record of improving players and teams is that his form will soon decline; they all do.
Systems bring sustained success in football. Deeply embedded, appropriately resourced and continually reviewed systems: recruitment, development and coaching systems in particular. Get this right and even Klopp would be able to push Liverpool above sixth.
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Rolling_stone – a lot of luck is involved in Europe – the luck of the draw mainly. When we got to knock-out stages under Rodgers we were unlucky to get Zenit, whereas under Lennon we thought we got lucky in getting Copenhagen. We failed miserably against Copenhagen though and I don’t think anyone made excuses about that!
Winning a European trophy is, these days, a pipe dream – eventually you meet one of the big guns (Man Utd, Spurs, Milan) who have too much quality over a two legged tie but we should be doing much better than we have been!
Spidey,
Excellent work recently. Thanks for your time. I missed your first part on the championship managers so will check back.
Take the day off for your efforts 👍🏼😃
—-
P8ddy,
Keep on posting please. They’re always thought provoking posts.
——-
Jobo/Melbourne Mick,
Don’t be strangers x
—-
Any word from Whitedoghunch? Not seen his name for a while
Anyone think we’ll see any comments from the powers that be with regards 2 of the Huns Covid 5 playinf last night ?
Cheers Majestic Hartson! Will kick back and watch Kennedy’s Celtic with interest!
I noted Clemente didn’t get through yesterday – might have to review my list and bump him down a bit…
Majestic H
To save you scrolling back:
St Tams asked about Championship Managers so I’ve had a quick look. A quick look means I’ve been briefer here than in previous posts, although spent a bit longer looking at some. I’ve started at the top and worked down. This is the top 15:
Daniel Farke – Norwich. Relegated last year they look on course to bounce straight back up, with a healthy 7 point lead at the top. The Norwich fans love him, even though his Premier League campaign was painful after an initial burst, and he seems settled. So no chance here.
Thomas Franks – Brentford. He’s been at Brentford for 4 years now, initially as an assistant head coach before stepping up to replace Dean Smith who went to Villa. His first full season saw him reach the Play-off final. He’s sitting second this year – level on points with the third place team. His team play nice football and he’s known for developing players (sold Watkins and Benhrama for around £75m in the summer – Toney is doing well for them this year too) but questions around his experience (his only previous job saw him finish 3rd and 4th with Brondby which isn’t amazing by any means) and he probably feels there’s unfinished business at Brentford.
Xisco- Watford – only started in December 2020 though the way Watford burn through managers he may be available in summer. Pretty lacking in experience – 4 months and 11 games at Dinamo Tblisi (won a title) was all he had pre-Watford. Has a good win percentage – 66% – but that’s across 24 games and similar to our own win ratio (19 wins from 30 games). Too early to tell how his career will go.
Steve Cooper – Swansea – St Tams highlighted him as one to look at. In his first top level managerial job. Started out as a youth coach at Wrexham before moving to a similar role at Liverpool in 2008, where he spent 5 years. By 2011 he was manager of their academy and played a part in the development of Sterling and Alexander-Arnold among others. He then moved to the England National team set up where he managed the under 16s before taking the under 17 side to the 2017 U-17 World Cup. He won that!!
He got the Swansea gig in 2019, reaching the play-offs. Brentford beat them in the semi-finals. This season they sit 4th, 1 point behind Brentford and 8 behind Norwich.
Some tactical analysis here: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/eflanalysis.com/analysis/steve-cooper-at-swansea-city-2019-20-tactical-analysis-tactics/amp
Short version – some quick, short passing and interchanging football going forward, very vulnerable to counter-attacks.
Again, probably an unfinished business scenario, but worth keeping an eye on if they don’t make promotion – he may feel he’s hit a ceiling with Swansea if he can’t get them up this year. That’s probably too late for us given we need to hit the ground running but would put him in the “worth a call to his agent” category. He’s need to sort that counter-attack vulnerability though…
Vejlko Paunovic – Reading – a largely unknown figure – his previous (and only managerial) gig was a 4 years stint at Chicago Fire in the US. He seems to have done a respectable job there. Took over at Reading in August and now has a team which finished 14th last season sitting in 5th.
Early days for him but one to keep an eye on. Here’s a brief tactical review on thier win over Watford: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/eflanalysis.com/analysis/efl-championship-2020-21-reading-vs-watford-tactical-analysis-tactics/amp
Also – their left back has just signed for Bayern Munich on a Bosman!! Not sure that’s down to the manager though…
Mick McCarthy – Cardiff City – Having left the Ireland job in summer, he was then out of work until taking the APOEL job in November before being sacked in January. He then got the Cardiff job and is flying with 6 wins and 2 draws in his 8 games so far. The guy we probably should have gone for in October or early November to see out the season. Given the need for a new modern football direction, I think McCarthy would be the wrong choice. He is Irish though, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dermot appoint him…
Jonathan Woodgate – Bournemouth – literally just got the job. Was poor at Middlesboro. Pass.
Valerien Ismael – Barnsley – htook over in summer when Barnsley had avoided relegation by a single point, finishing in 21st place. Has them at the dizzy heights of 8th at the moment.
To be frank, his CV is limited with only 4 jobs in total – Wolfsburg where he was sacked after losing 10 of 17 games and Apollon Smyramis where he was sacked after a game. In his only season at LASK he finished 4th.
His team play a 3-4-3/3-6-1 system and appear to be based around suffocating the game and keeping it tight. They score around an average of around a goal a game, and concede more or less the same, although with very few draws they either win or lose by the odd goal. Think Scotland under Steve Clarke. Tactical analysis here: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/eflanalysis.com/analysis/efl-championship-2020-21-barnsley-vs-watford-tactical-analysis/amp
Not sure what to think of this guy – has he just got lucky? Either way, probably a watching brief for now to see what trajectory his career will take.
Neil Warnock – Middlesboro – just no.
Michael O’Neill – Stoke City – Did a great job for Northern Ireland. Done a decent job at Stoke City, turning them from relegation candidates to solidly mid-table. A lot of draws though and seems to sign folk we are interested in – Fletcher and Doughty for instance. May have knocked us back before and I don’t think he’s done enough at Stoke to warrant a second offer.
Gary Rowett – Millwall – got his first gig at Burton Albion in 2012 and had some success in the cup but not much in the league. Moved onto Birmingham City in 2014. Took them from 21st to 10th in his first season and had them sitting 7th in his second before being sacked so new owners could install Gianfranco Zola.
2 years at Derby followed with them reaching the play-offs (but failing to go up) both times. He then left for the Stoke job where he lasted less than a year.
He joined Milwall in October 2019, and he narrowly missed out on the play-offs last season – they finished 8th and 2 points behind Swansea. In 11th this season.
A pass for me – seems to be a solid Championship manager who has a win rate of around 40% over his four clubs, but not what we need.
Nigel Pearson – Bristol City – just got the job and he’s start a fight with his reflection. Pass.
Mark Warburton – QPR….not even gonna go there.
Alex Neil – Preston – have already done this. It’s a no from me.
Tony Mowbray – Blackburn. Nope.
Sam
Read somewhere punishments will come but it cannot be fast tracked, to me the SFA have ignored it as has every single club and the media to benefit sevco.
Just wait to we see the new compliance officer season ticket holder in action , maybe now will be as good as it gets
Paul67 is right that recruitment, development and coaching systems are more important than the manager. But I think it goes beyond that. It’s the whole club structure that has to be right.
First, you want an owner who is closely involved with the running of the club.
Second, a Director of Football, with relevant experience as a manager or coach, preferably in more than one country, and with a real knowledge of the game and good contacts.
Third, a proper recruitment and scouting department, not dependent on tips from agents.
Fourth, a qualified head of youth coaching and development.
The manager is only the last piece of the puzzle once all the others are in position. If the manager fails it is not necessarily a huge crisis and you have a structure in place that provides continuity and can appoint a new manager. If we had a proper structure I’d be happy to see John Kennedy appointed – appointing the assistant manager worked for Bayern Munich, probably the best run club in Europe (admittedly not a PLC).
The back page of the Sun is lauding the ‘Covid Kid’ this morning.
Unbelievable.
Spidey101
The Reading manager was also in charge of the Serbia national teams at various youth levels. As a player he played in four different countries. The kind of manager we might get if we advertised the position.
I see folk are still are still underestimating Gerrard and his team. The signs were creeping in under Rogers if we’re truly honest.
A myopic, aged board – thought we’d have enough in our locker to deal with their attempts to dethrone us.
Even after the league Cup win – which was a massive warning sign.
The above post espouses the benefit of a team playing a system.
Celtic haven’t had one since Rogers left.
Our players regressed so much under a manager devoid of tactical sense.
It’s been an unholy mess – one that should have been confronted at least 5 months ago.
My moment was Ferencvaros. Others cite the cup. Others Aberdeen.
There was still a window of opportunity.
Then the CEO officially chucked it – the guy who told us NL was the man for the job and other CVs were ignored – only this week has this very site countered that PL had only the options NL or a newly promoted EPL manager – so someone, somewhere in the Celtic hierarchy has been lying to the support.
Our DeFacto Director of Football was an absentee landlord – and his tenant was, on a game by game basis destroying not only his own legacy but also the professional standing of our team as a whole.
And when, after so many high tide disasters which would have sealed other manager’s fates, the board finally sacked him (For that is what it was – a sacking) they delivered a coup de grace – by leaving 2 guys, he didn’t choose but had helped serve up this unholy mess, in charge for… Well no one knows.
But the bookies will pay out if he’s in charge for 10 games…
Aye but let’s fantasise about Gerrard’s Rangers getting their comeuppance in the future – the very thing we as fans used to decry them for…
In the cold light of day – who can still denounce David King’s statement that he didn’t consider Celtic that far in front of them?
But, but, but…
Nae crowds, Covid, The SNP, Secret things we’ll never know…
All good things come to an end – usually to no good…
U
Paul 67, et al,
Surely the manager is the most important person, after all he decides the formations and structure.
We respectfully called for change and our manager fell on his sword. However that sword was equally weilded by our assistant manager who is still there.
Hypothetically what if an assistant undermined the manager to facilitate his removal.? The manager goes and the assistant gets promoted. He has x amount of games to change his status from interim to permanent and it will save the club bags of money if he succeeds.
This interim appointment does not sit well with me no matter what formation we employ.
HH to all.
One of the covid guys score just after coming on….cos they paid for their error by being punished. What punishment ?.
If that was us…
God help us.
Have some balls Celtic.
ulysses mcghee – a demographic of one on 26th February 2021 10:48 am
excellent post mate.
SFtBs @ 12:43 PM Yesterday,
My response early yesterday morning did have an abruptness to it that I apologise for – bit too early:)
It looks like we can pore over certain issues ad-infinitum, maybe a re-framing of the debate is what we need…
… so just a few things
You have been a staunch supporter of this current (now crumbling) Celtic Regime. You say you have little time for Big Pedro, you say Lenny should have gone, you were scathing of Brendan Rodgers.
So
Who are the folks that you feel excelled and are supportive off during the last G. o. D. era?
Next a slightly longer point…
The fact remains that Brendan Rodgers said that he is open to a return to Celtic.
Yeah- so he says. Does that make it a FACT.
On the 24th February 2019, two days before he left for Leicester, he said:-
”My job is to concentrate on the football aspect, and that is with Celtic,” Rodgers said.
“I’ve been stood here for two and a half years and I’ve been asked similar questions, my message is always very, very clear, I’m very concentrated on the game.”
The Celtic manager was speaking to BBC Scotland Sportsound before his side’s Premiership game against Motherwell, where he said his concentration was “fully on getting the three points”.
In April 2017 it was reported :-
“Celtic boss Brendan Rodgers signed a new four-year deal with the “greatest club in the world” and hopes his star players stay for the ride. The Northern Irishman arrived on a one-year rolling contract last summer but has committed himself to the Parkhead club until 2021.
layers will always look at the manager and see how long he is connected to the club.
“If I am committed to the club fully, hopefully that makes it a little bit easier for them to make that decision. That is important.”
The former Swansea and Liverpool boss insists the decision to sign his new deal was “very easy.”
“It felt right,” he said. “We have been talking for a little while and it felt the right thing to do. I couldn’t be happier.
“But of course not just a decision of mine. I’m very grateful for the commitment of the board.
“Professionally and personally I’m in a great place.
“A few years ago I might have been in a rush. But you learn through experience that you have to cherish what you have.
“It’s the beginning of the journey, we have only been here a short time.
“But there’s a lot more to achieve, development of the club and that is exciting.”
“For me Celtic is the greatest club in the world.
“I have the privilege to manage it and while I manage it I want to make it the best I possibly can.
“I just love being here, love helping the players develop and making the team better.”
———————————
Turns out we were not the greatest club in his view and he had no compunction about negotiating players’ contracts, while he was planning to be off elsewhere, after all.
That’s an interesting piece you quote from BBC Scotland (April 2017) and gets to the Heart of the Matter.
Firstly let’s state a few things around BR most reasonable fholk can agree on:
From the beginning of his Celtic tenure BR always made it clear that he intended to return to England to Manage
It was always felt that he wanted to re-build his reputation at Celtic to the level that he returned to England as a manager of a top six Club
He had offers and approaches throughout his time with Celtic, none from top six.
Ok
Now, the piece you quote from was from the, not now but then – infamous approach from China – not one that BR sought but in the later words of DD (paraphrased) a huge life changing offer.
It seems even at the early stage of his tenure BR had been coming up against PL in De-facto DoF mode and tensions had been rising.
After that approach DD and BR came to an agreement and a new lucrative “extended” contract was drawn up between Celtic and Rodgers.
There was mutual benefit, BR became “… the best paid person in the history of Celtic”
BR signed a release clause that ensured that if BR and his associated staff went Celtic would be hugely compensated. A compensation package I’m sure both sides would have envisaged coming from a top tier Club.
Sometime after this new agreement BR stated…
… “I run football and operate football and I want top footballers in and I want to work with them as quickly as I possibly can.”
Of course him running and operating football and demanding when and which players he wanted was a crazy idea in the mind of our megalomaniac CEO – who had no intention of letting BR or anyone else take his toys away.
Brendan Rodgers stuck to his side of the agreement Celtic PLC didn’t stick to there side.
When the seeds of a new great era in Celtic football were about to be sown by BR, The Celtic Board secretly withdrew their backing, maybe not in the letter of the “extended contract” but certainly in the spirit – this led to carnage, the result of which Celtic are reaping now.
A good example would be Dembele; Moussa wanted away, BR thought he had Board’s backing to try to persuade MD that extending his time with Celtic was the right thing to do and that he would get an even more lucrative transfer in the future. The Board offered Moussa an extended contract.
However, far from convincing Moussa to sign the new contract the Board actively engaged in selling him. Negotiating a transfer behind the back of the ghuy who “run and operated football”.
Dembele downed tools, refused to co-operate with the Manager and Coaches and demanded a transfer. He was “secretly” backed by the Board in this action.
Now this and several other high profile examples and I’m sure many less “spectacular” incidents led to Celtic and BR parting ways.
Now due to circumstance there was no way BR was going to get his top six move, his star was declining. So luckily for both sides a solution was in the wings.
Leicester City were falling like a stone and needed some decisive quick action to address this fall in performance and to reverse it. For BR they were prepared to push the boat out and pay the extortionate amount to release Rodgers and his hand picked staff from Celtic.
Although not for the Celtic fans but as the then dire situation they found themselves in – for the Celtic Board, BR with coaching staff and Leicester City it was a win~win~win.
Although the Celtic Board were unwilling to let the fans know the truth, just as they had done during Rangers demise, they led Celtic fans to believe things were quite different from the backroom negotiations that had been going on.
Now the unthruthfulness around Celtic pretending they wanted to be a stand alone business and didn’t need “no stinkin'” Rangers… While all the time beavering away to resurrect the “old firm”, will be a dishonesty on supporters as heinous as any. In a couple of elements the Brendan Rodgers thing is worse.
You see the “dog whistling” condemnation of BR before his departure combined with the character assassination afterwards was a dispicable act.
Now bringing Moussa Sore Knee, tools down Dembele back to a hero’s welcome at Celtic Park to celebrate a Championship that he had nowt to do with may have been a bit of fun for the Board as the kicked BR in the mawhaws once again.
Problem is though, the Board had replaced a team of football management and coaching professionals with….
… Lenny, yes, the one, the Only, Neil Lennon. Who now had to deal with a squad that included “high value” players that knew what you do to get your move from Celtic Park…
You feign injury
You down tools – not in the big European games, not in the old firm games, not in the international games (French U21 and the remarkable cure for “loss of form” anyone:), just those unimportant League games
You undermine the manager
All from the Dembele play book, all given credence by the Board.
Lenny didn’t have a chance from day one.
Hail Hail
SPIKEYSAULDMAN- I took it the £50 million, was current market estimates for the 2 players?
SPIDEY101
Excellent analysis, are you available for a DOF role ?
79 Caps – good spot! He’s the sort I’d expect to apply if we advertised (though now he knows we just put applications in a drawer perhaps not), though I think he probably wouldn’t consider until summer given he’s currently in a play-off spot so has a chance of promotion to the EPL. One to keep an eye on though.
Our priority should be a DoF though – then the DoF can appoint a manager/head coach who fits the philosophy the DoF wants to embed.
That’s harder for the likes of us to suggest names for – DoFs tend not to be high profile so we don’t really know who is good or not! Except Ragnick – who I’d take in a heartbeat!
Garngad – thanks but I think in my case it’s a those who can, do, Those who can’t pontificate from the sidelines situation 😂
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56208674
40-49 year olds,next for vaccine
Why do we need a DOF when we have Dominic Mckay. ?
Surely their remits would clash, especially if we employ a top class strong manager who wants to build his own team.
HH.
GEEBEE1978 on 26TH FEBRUARY 2021 7:45 AM
‘Don’t understand the animosity towards Sutton. He says it how he sees it’
###
I think you’ve answered your own question there.
GP- 🎣🎣
Sutton, Hartson and Michael Stewart, are the only guys in the SMSM, who give us a fair shake.
Greenpinata- McKay’s role should limited to giving the DoF a budget and KPIs and then McKay focussed on the commercial side of the job.
The manager should obviously have a say in how things work, but he should be on the same wavelength as the DoF (eg don’t match up an Ajax style DoF who wants us to embed a possession based style of football with youth academy feeding at least two players per season to the first team with someone like Mourinho as manager).
Bada
I’m in my 60s and haven’t had the jab yet
!!BADA BING!! on 26TH FEBRUARY 2021 11:22 AM
”And it strongly advises some particular groups to take up a vaccine as soon as it is offered. They are:
men”
###
That’s a fairly large particular group.
31003
You need to move to England 🤭
Potato Head….no mister, no missus, just Potato Head… 😂
new articlce posted.
GREENPINATA on 26TH FEBRUARY 2021 11:33 AM
Why do we need a DOF when we have Dominic Mckay. ?
Surely their remits would clash, especially if we employ a top class strong manager who wants to build his own team.
HH.
………………….
Surely, the lack of a DoF, would give us the exact same model that we have been complaining about on here for years. What if Dominic McKay decides to adopt the same approach as Lawell? We need a CEO who can negotiate lucrative sponsorship deals and find other revenue streams and then sit down with the DoF and agree how much money he can have to run the Football Department, recruitment, salaries etc.
A DoF is totally necessary in my opinion.
NEIL LENNON & MCCARTNEY on 26TH FEBRUARY 2021 4:54 AM
Like or loathe him. this guy nails it
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2021/02/25/the-manager-is-gone-but-the-malady-lingers-on/
With respect he isn’t saying anything that a large number of people on here have been saying. And he is out of date: Lawell has gone!