Congratulations to Brendan and the players, last night’s results makes it virtually certain we will qualify for the knockout stages of the Europa League. This tournament will give us peer-level competition into next year, Uefa coefficient points and could see income hit (drumroll) NINE figures for the first time.
While the wider context of last night was positive, the performance in Paris was tactically abject. In successive seasons we have conceded seven goals away to the top seed in our Champions League group. The total of 12 conceded to PSG this season contributed to them achieving a new record of all-time top scorers in a group stage, despite having only played five games.
I love the football we are watching under Brendan as much as you, but we are singularly unprepared to face opponents who perform at a higher level than us. This issue has nothing to do with our lowly league, or the calibre of players we are able to recruit, or even their endeavours during the game, it is about tactical choices.
Last week I watched Sweden resist Italy for 90 minutes at the San Siro. Sweden were awful, they couldn’t string two passes together. It was an exercise of attack v defence, but whenever the Italians turned one man in a yellow jersey, another two would descend upon him. There was no space inside the box, no overload of unmarked strikers fighting each other to latch onto a loose ball.
The contrast to the acres of space we allowed PSG last night is stark. While this is a great PSG team, one who have a good chance of going all the way in the tournament, this result is exceptional, even for them. No one in French football has conceded as many as seven to them this season, nor did a poor Anderlecht side.
The reason for this is not that the weaker French sides are all better than Celtic, it’s that they pack their penalty box, as we used to do, when facing top teams in the Champions League.
Think back to how Neil Lennon’s team pulled narrow at the back to deny Barcelona, with Lustig, Ambrose, K Wilson and Matthews in defence. Or how Gordon Strachan’s teams twice kept Milan, out for 90 minutes, with defences of M Wilson McManus, O’Dea, Naylor at home, and Caldwell, Pressley, McManus and O’Dea at the San Siro.
None of the defenders Strachan used would get into this Celtic team, nor would Efe, Kelvin or Adam Matthews. The key difference between the respective outcomes is not personnel, but tactics.
I loved the confident way we played for the opening 8 minutes but I also knew what we were in for as soon as PSG started making passes. We are, by a magnitude, not good enough to take the game to PSG in this manner. They found it very easy to carve us open and score, and as soon as the goals started raining in, that early confidence evaporated.
Instead, we played most of the match looking unsure and exposed. Any development opportunities had to be crammed into an 8-minute period, after that, it was just brutal. It wasn’t even down to poor individual performances. In fact, several players did very well, they were just tactically abandoned.
After Gordon Strachan took Cafu, Maldini, Gattuso, Seedorf, Pirlo, Kaka, Inzaghi & Co. all the way, Milan went on to beat Bayern Munich, Manchester United, and Liverpool in the final. Don’t pretend this PSG team are significantly better than that Milan team, because it is just not true (I could argue the opposite). Nor are they better than the Barcelona team Neil Lennon beat 2-1 and lost by the same score.
The key difference between now and then, is that Gordon remained haunted by his first dreadful result as Celtic manager, as was Neil, who was schooled 4-0 by Utrecht in his first season qualifiers, whereas Brendan’s equally dreadful debut result did not impose the same need to learn a lesson.
There is beauty in defending, so let’s learn to do it well.
FRIDAY EVENING ON CQN…
Friday night’s @CQNMagazine Podcast
A CELTIC STATE OF MIND
With Lisbon Lion @Cairney2Subscribe here: https://t.co/7i8rarBBl3 pic.twitter.com/RMjDOVrrKF
— Paul John Dykes (@PaulDykes) November 23, 2017
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434 Comments- Pages:
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PHILBHOY – regarding Paul’s article you say
“PAUL67 – A bit disappointed with your post. You can only defend if you have defenders.”
I think you missed the point Paul made which was previous Celtic teams with poorer defenders managed to push Milan and Barca all the way by setting up differently. The key point is that BR’s tactics leave things far too open for good teams to exploit.
I said last night one good thing to come out of these hammerings is that BR’s reputation is also taking a nosedive across the continent and he will not be seen as a candidate for any of the big clubs if / when they are looking for a new manager. Unfairly or not, he is now seen as tactically naive and not capable of getting a result against superior opposition.
That hopefully means he can continue to concentrate on domestic dominance and moving the club towards being the “world’s most succesful one” sometime in the next decade :)
The man is obviously a briliant man-manager, he just needs to be a bit more realistic in the CL and show some flexibility to stop us being the whipping bhoys of Europe.
ERNIE LYNCH @ 12 53 .
” something missing from their Club ” –
The mad mental we enjoy violence ” Ultras ” have been barred and the self proclaimed ” Ultras ” who remain are monitored ,regulated and heavily controlled . Many other supporters have been priced out – one of Mbappe’s comments when he signed was that he ( A PSG fan ) hadn’t seen his team as often as he would have liked – poor boy like him from a Paris banlieu simply couldn’t afford it .
I remember going to a PSG v Marseille game in 2010 — headcase violence before and after the game . Scary !. People I was sat to last night could have been at the Opera , the Rugby or doing a Mexican wave just before the Olympic 100 metres Final . Probably planning their Asterix and Obelix outfits for their trip to watch Les Bleus in Russia.
One thing that disappointed me last night, and its not the 1st time, was the quality of CGs kick outs. Often too high or hard to a defender who already had an opponent breathing down his neck. Absolutely no need for it half the time.
I’m not devastated to have lost in Paris, but the scoreline hurts. As Paul mentioned yesterday, the game in Brussels was going to have a bigger bearing on our season than the one in Paris.
I agree that different tactics may have reduced the scoreline , but I think concentration is what really let us down. Slack passes in the middle of the park and switching off at critical times cost us a few goals. I’m not going to slate players, but some of our big players were below their best.
If we pack the defence maybe a loss in concentration is not as detrimental, but Brendan has been adamant from day 1, thats not how he sets up his teams. He was the same with Liverpool before. If thats a flaw, then its one we accept as part of the package.
Anyway, onwards to the biggest game of the week on Sunday.
Hail Hail
M6BHOY on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 7:38 AM
ITALIABHOY on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 6:59 AM
The dogs on the street know why the CL was created.
*and who was one of the architects, the greatest administrator the game has ever known, still working for UEFA tae, that’s his reward.
I am open to correction here, as always, but I believe that PSG are similar to Inverness Caley Thistle in their history.
They are an amalgamation of two Parisian clubs in the not too distant past.
That, I presume, is why they lack the historical feel of a club.
Another reason is that the fans are not united. There are two factions, one for each of the former clubs and the relationship between those two groups are not particularly cordial.
Perhaps someone who has lived in Paris for a time can verify what I have posted.
Oft. Someone take the rose tinted revisionist specs off Paul.
Gordon’s and Neil’s side both lost heavily and abjectly to European sides while being pragmatic. Benfica, AC Milan, Barca & Juve spring to mind very readily. I would also claim that some of the performances were far worse than last night.
Against Barca last season we went 5 at the back. Last night we went 5 in the middle of the park to reduce the space and selected players whose speciality is to keep the ball (ahem!). So, those who say BR is naïve, rigid and uncompromising are missing those small tweaks.
I’m sure if we went back over the blog we would see all comments slaughtering the way Sweden and ROI play(ed). It’s easy to flip flop.
The high press got us a result in brussells and also the goal against Munich. But, it is without doubt that this team has a weak mentality when it comes to foreign shores, set backs and the steroid using country oilgarch backed elite..
BR is guilty as charged on a few things though.
The game changed last night when Lustig went off. The team were a shambles from then on. The message of the change wasn’t clear. The team didn’t know whether we were playing a 3 or a 4 and paid for that spell.
Playing Jozo after being out for weeks was a mistake.
He needs to put Craig Gordon out his misery.
He should have bought another centre back in the summer.
But…..we should be looking to finishing the group on a high. A WIN. Qualification for Europe after xmas. That’s progress.
PSG and the rest can away a play with their own ball in their little own world.
VFR800 @ 1.21
” Verratti (best player on the park by a Parisienne mile ) ”
For what it’s worth -I am in total agreement with that .
I went to PSG 4 Nantes 1 — he absolutely ran the game ..
Pirlo -” I’d pay to watch Marco Verratti .”
Watched him on the tele -Sweden 1 -Italy 0 . He did nothing apart from a bad tempered retaliatory hack which got him a yellow and a pass out for ” the end of the world ” return in Milan . _Yet more confirmation of the fairly common Italian belief that there are 2 Marco Verratti s – the one who plays for PSG and the one who plays for Italy .
From E-Tims… Goals lost in a short time
Thanks to moravcik67 on twitter for showing us these astonishing examples…
Shakhtar – 2 in 3 mins
Aalborg – 2 in 6 mins
R. Vienna – 2 in 7 mins
Utrecht – 2 in 7 mins
Spartak – 2 in 7 mins
Juventus – 2 in 6 mins
Milan – 2 in 4 mins
Barca – 3 in 9 mins
Legia – 2 in 6 mins
Salzburg – 2 in 5 mins
Zagreb – 2 in 3 mins
Fenerbahce – 2 in 5 mins
Molde – 2 in 6 mins
Hapoel – 2 in 3 mins
Barca – 2 in 2 mins
Astana – 2 in 2 mins
PSG – 2 in 3 mins
PSG – 3 in 5 mins
The Neil Lennon v Barca comparison is off the mark.
Lennon and others that followed set up their teams to allow Barca all the space in the world down the flanks as they didn’t have a centre forward to cross the ball to.
Guess what? PSG do. And he is not too bad in the air.
Lennon’s v Barca tactics wouldn’t work against Munich. Cause, guess what? Aye, Munich also have centre forwards…..
Just saying likes.
move on with the times says a cqn poster well then get used to more embarassing beatings in europe as we just aint in this class and cannot be because we wont spend or cannot
My concern about last night is that getting continually humped – and not learning lessons – is the sort of stuff that starts to sow seeds of doubt and discord in the dressing room.
No professional player likes to be on the receiving end of 7-1 – particularly if it becomes a habit, driven by a continued lack of recognition of opposition strengths.
On the wider issue, the Champions League has become fatally flawed as a meaningful competition. UEFA seem quite happy to have a handful of “all star” teams slugging it out – albeit funded by Russian gangsters, corrupt governments or Arab autocrats.
Given that UEFA seem unable to enforce any meaningful Financial Fair Play, 90% of the teams involved in the CL would be better off playing each other in a revamped Europa League.
SOUTH OF TUNIS on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 1:41 PM
Verratti is the heir of Iniesta in terms of midfield maestros IMHO. For me, Iniesta and Verratti are the best 2 midfielders in Europe since Zinedine Zidane graced the game.
Sometimes you just have to sit back and admire class and genius (Verratti has both; Neymar just has the genius).
KTF
TIM MALONE WILL TELL on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 1:57 PM
Some fair points. If EUFA won’t do anything about FFP , let’s leave the big boys to see who can outspend each other in their own incestuous league. I, for one ,won’t be watching.
paul 67
great article
take a bow
brendan Rodgers needs to know
we will not take getting hammered by anybody
this cannot be the norm at European level
sort yer tactics out at this level brendan
PSG are a phenomenal team
but
PSG are not the greatest team ever
and as for those who think we should accept this
have a word with yourself
VFR800
Kevjungle will be on in a minute saying you canny have seen Murdo McLeod!
Here is a bit of context: Besiktas (x 3), Malmo, Olympiacos, Slavia Prague, Zilina, Genk (x 2), Basel, BATE Borisov (x 2), Shaktar Donetsk, Maribor (x2), Roma (x2), Sporting Lisbon, Dinamo Zagreb, Bayer Leverkausen, CSKA Moscow, Braga, Legia Warsaw, Ludogrets and Qarabag have all suffered similar defeats in the Champions League. Yes, there are some smaller clubs in there, but there are also some from Italy, Germany, Portugal and Belgium!
8-0: Liverpool v Beşiktaş, 06/11/2007
8-0: Real Madrid v Malmö, 08/12/2015
7-0: Juventus v Olympiacos, 10/12/2003
7-0: Arsenal v Slavia Praha, 23/10/2007
0-7: Žilina v Marseille, 03/11/2010
7-0: Valencia v Genk, 23/11/2011
7-0: Bayern München v Basel, 13/03/2012
0-7: BATE Borisov v Shakhtar Donetsk, 21/10/2014
7-0: Bayern München v Shakhtar Donetsk, 11/03/2015
7-0: Barcelona v Celtic, 13/09/2016
0-7: Maribor v Liverpool, 17/10/2017
7-1: Manchester United v Roma, 10/04/2007
7-1: Bayern München v Sporting CP, 10/03/2009
1-7: Dinamo Zagreb v Lyon, 07/12/2011
7-1: Barcelona v Bayer Leverkusen, 07/03/2012
1-7: Roma v Bayern München, 21/10/2014
6-0: Marseille v CSKA Moskva, 17/03/1993
6-0: Leeds United v Beşiktaş, 26/09/2000
6-0: Real Madrid v Genk, 25/09/2002
6-0: Arsenal v Braga, 15/09/2010
6-0: Porto v BATE Borisov, 17/09/2014
6-0: Chelsea v Maribor, 21/10/2014
0-6: Legia Warszawa v Borussia Dortmund, 14/09/2016
6-0: Arsenal v Ludogorets Razgrad, 19/10/2016
6-0: Dynamo Kyiv v Beşiktaş, 06/12/2016
6-0: Chelsea v Qarabağ, 12/09/2017
KTF
KEVIN G on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 1:38 PM
Says it all, really.
PHILBHOY, wee Murdo couldnae lace Iniesta’s boots!
KTF
We as expected lost to a very good team.
Mostly down to facing superior players.
That was always a difficult task.
Hard to raise your level from SPL to European elite.
But the biggest difference was tactical.
We have a defense that constantly ball watches and was clearly demonstrated in this years European games.
They had clearly noted this and constantly hit diagonals to men peeling off the back shoulder.
Without a defensive leader this brings disarray as everyone expects someone else to assume responsibility.
I posted before the game the midfield was to light as Rogic and McGregor can’t tackle.
McGregor has positional discipline but Rogic is a maverick who can be creative but last night showed he will have to improve his speed of thought at this level.
Kouassi showed composure when he came on and will be an asset so hopefully he will feature a lot more.
But we should have brought him on for Rogic as Ntcham coming off hurt us.
I know Bitton is much improved but last night showed why he should not be viewed as the defensive solution.Was not that he was beaten almost 100% of the time as Neymar is exceptional but so often he had no awareness and he was constantly wrong side.This is his weakness .
We have success in Scotland because we are a proactive team albeit against weaker opposition.
In Europe we mostly become reactive and this plays a part in our failing.
I worry when I hear our manager say this is how I play Iam not going to change, if this is the case then teams know our approach well in advance.Surely you have to look at our players and say what`s the best system to suit them in big games.Being beaten 7-0.5-0,7-1suggests its not working.I don’t expect us to go toe to toe with teams like PSG but the least we can expect is make them work damn hard for their goals this didn`t happen last night.
Test
Test 2
Brendan is a great coach ,look at the difference in a lot of players since he came in.All we are looking for is to be a better defensive unit, it can be coached.Maybe time for Kolo to step up.
VFR800 .
I used to watch Serie B on cooncil tele for no other reason than watching Verratti playing for Pescara .
Hasn’t changed – still looks like a baby face wee boy – plays for PSG exactly like he played for Pescara .
His Manager at Pescara – Zeman -said this — ” genius of a player — some grow up designing things with Lego – he grew up calculating time , space and vectors on a football field ” .
Note you mention Iniesta — saw an interview with him where he heaped praise on Verratti — ” absolutely one of the best midfield players in the world “
Ntcham and Forrest best for me, Gordon poor for a couple , Alves in particular IMO
SOUTH OF TUNIS on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 2:21 PM
His Manager at Pescara – Zeman -said this — ” genius of a player — some grow up designing things with Lego – he grew up calculating time , space and vectors on a football field ” .
_______________________________________________________________
That sums him up; a guy who knows where and when to play the ball and at what pace. Sounds simple, but ain’t!
As for Iniesta’s comments, a magnificent validation of a magnificent talent!
KTF
KTF
WHAT IS THE STARS on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 10:08 AM
Anyway, enough of this football related nonsense
150 years ago today 3 Irishmen were hanged in Manchester God Save Ireland
*Came home from work one sunny summer Saturday afternoon and popped intae a pub just up the road fae me. This was a bluenose shop but not a hun one, had a couple of Tim bartenders, big attraction was that it sold ¼ gills and nae wine over the counter.
In the corner was this bhoy I knew strumming his guitar. He clocks me and shouts me over, here’s one for you Tontine and starts intae the Smashing o’ the Van, all 5 verses and choruses, not too loud I hasten tae add.
When I said “do you know where you are” he laughed and said “eff them they huvnae a clue what I’m singing”.
YORKBHOY – that list of multiple goals lost in a short period of time really highlights a mental frailty which we see time and time again. A similar problem must be how often we concede a goal within minutes of scoring one.
TONTINE TIM
That was the first rebel song I learned when I was wee!
Still shed a wee tear when I hear it.
In England at this time of year the wee teams look forward to getting into the 3rd round of the FA cup in the hope they draw a big team for a big payday. They might get lucky and get a replay they might even pull off a giant killing act, more likely they’ll get well beaten -but when it boils down to it it’s about the money.
A bit like Celtic getting into the CL group stages – it’s about the money. Finishing 3rd for a pot 4 side is a success – but getting pumped isn’t.
We have the money to improve the team – but it’s easier said than done – good luck with that Brendan.
PHILBHOY on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 2:29 PM
TONTINE TIM
That was the first rebel song I learned when I was wee! Still shed a wee tear when I hear it.
*my mother didnae like it because “they chanced to kill a man”. She was the same with the Wild Colonial Boy as Jack Duggan stabbed James MacEvoy. That’s why I grew up listening tae the likes of Danny Boy and the Mountains of Mourne.
Some stats that prove that those team who qualify for CL group stages through Champions route are there to make up the numbers
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPULcwhWsAAtVmO?format=jpg&name=900×900
No team qualified for last 16 and if we get to EL it will be only 6 out of 25 to do that
The CL is similar to the EPL now, only 2 or 3 teams can win it, the rest are happy to be at the top table,and take the money.
!!BADA BING!! on 23RD NOVEMBER 2017 2:24 PM
Hopefully BR is asking Michel Vorm if he fancies keeping for him again. A great shot stopper who is good with the ball at his feet. Out of contract in the summer, now third choice at Spurs, a year younger than Gordon and three years younger than DeVries.
DeniaBhoy
The old adage is that you are most likely to lose a goal after scoring one may be true but Celtic in Europe seem more likely to lose a goal after we have just lost a goal.
I don’t know what the solution to the problem is but we do have one.
Gary67
Interesting stats – the seeding system and the ‘no team from same country rule’ ensures the big league teams prevail
oh and ‘it’s all about the money’