Taken to school, Paul McConville

1130

Celtic’s valiant capitulation last night had a familiar feel to it.  We took the game to Milan, bossed them in many areas while the tie was still close enough to be called a contest, created chances but had no cutting edge and lost heavily, at home, to what is clearly the weakest of four Milan teams we have faced in the last decade.  It was a similar story when Juventus came to Glasgow last season.

Am I the only one who thought it was familiar from stirring European nights of the 80s?  Take on one of the most experience teams in Europe with two out-and-out wingers, inspire for a time but only earn a lesson in how unforgiving the game can be at the top level. Or at least, hope we learned a lesson.

We loved it in the 80s, of course, but it was like going to school when Martin O’Neill arrived and taught us how to win in Europe.  Despite the defeat, the 10 men got it right at home to Barca, and in the home win over Ajax, where we allowed the visitors the majority of possession and territory, but with four minutes on the clock and Celtic playing well last night, I noted the game was “worryingly open”.

In Europe, an open game means defeat. We don’t have the midfield or attack to win playing adventurously. When setup properly, we can defend as well as anyone in Europe, this is our irrefutable strength, play to it.

Paul McConville

The first thing I did when I met Paul McConville at the Columba Club on Friday was dig him up for not being in touch recently.  This gave him an opportunity to wax enthusiastically about the consuming joy of being back on the tools as a solicitor in Glasgow.  He was a man who had arrived exactly where he wanted to be in life.

He was so full of drive, clarity of vision and purpose that it was with utter disbelieve I heard the news of his sudden passing yesterday.

As anyone who read Random Thoughts Re Scots Law knew, he loved his family.  He also loved practicing law and held Albion Rovers in high affection.  He was not, as has been suggested, part of the Celtic family. Had the snake oil salesmen turned up at Celtic Park they would have endured the same forensic analysis from Paul as he applied elsewhere, but he was an important friend and resource to our community, and ultimately our club, during an historically important time.

To most of us he was a unique blogger.  Cheerful, incisive and unrelenting.  He charted the story of Rangers insolvency, administration and liquidation, then picked up the even more complicated events surrounding the phoenix.

When asked on Friday why he had been less industrious recently, specifically covering the leaks from Charlotte Fakes, he conceded he just didn’t have the time anymore; he was back litigating and loving it.

The personal cost of his blogging was often all too clear, he was out there, but Paul managed to retain his determination not to be browbeaten, while enduring the numptites with more good grace and humour than most of us could muster. Before taking up his new role in Glasgow he worked a few minutes walk from me. We collaborated on a number of matters in recent years and marked one auspicious afternoon last year by sharing a bottle of Champagne; a genuinely treasured memory.

The fragility of it all is breathtaking. Our condolences to the McConville family. May he rest in peace.
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  1. I’m happy I don’t have a vote.

     

     

    Weefra

     

     

    Dinny bother yersel, it’s an issue that will pass soon enough, it’s a distraction from the real problems, the problems of kids being criminalised for wearing the green.

     

     

    The GB are what they are, we may agree with them or not, but they are standing up for what they believe is right, rightly or wrongly, it’s their right.

     

     

    We are founded from Irish roots, that will never be taken away from us, we are a scottish club but the Irish heritage is as strong today as it ever was,possibly stronger because of the hate directed towards us.

     

     

    I lived in the Republic for ten years before I came here, loved every second of it, and if I ever had to leave here, that is the place I would go back to.

     

     

    Forget the banners, they are nothing in the grand scheme of things.

     

     

    Sleep well.

     

     

    HH

     

    KTF

  2. eddieinkirkmichael on

    “The idea that politics and sport should be kept apart is laughable in Italy.”[1]

     

     

    Benito Mussolini was not the first leader to recognize the political potential of sports, but he placed more emphasis upon them. Bill Murray asserts that, “Mussolini’s Fascist regime was the first to use sports as an integral part of government.”[2] Many of the techniques that Mussolini originated were later imitated by Hitler in Nazi Germany. Stalin, on the other hand, though earlier to utilize sport domestically, was, “unwilling to put the Soviet athletes to the test of international competition until he was sure that they would win.”[3]

     

     

    In some respects, the usefulness of sport for a Fascist or totalitarian regime is obvious. The values of sport can be used rhetorically to reflect the values of a Fascist regime without much stretching. For example, after Italy’s victory in the World Cup final Il Popolo D’Italia—the newspaper that most directly served as a mouthpiece for Mussolini’s regime—referred to the “vision of harmony, discipline, order, and courage” shown by the national team on the pitch.[4]

     

     

    Additionally, dominance on the sports field can be extrapolated to a wider context of supremacy. This was most directly seen with Hitler and his Arian athletes at the 1936 Olympic Games, but Mussolini also sought to assert national dominance through sporting achievements. The Italians took special relish in their competitions against political and cultural rivals in Europe such as France, Spain, and England. In 1936 the American sports writer John Tunis asserted that, “An Italian triumph in football, cycling, tennis, or any other sport, particularly if over old rivals like the French, is seized upon, written up and paraded as proof positive of the superiority of the race and its governing principles.”[5]

     

     

    It is also commonly argued that sport is used by Fascist regimes both as an extension of military training and as an opiate of the masses. Tunis points to both of these motivations for Mussolini and his regime, stating that, “sport becomes just one branch of army training,”[6] and, “It keeps the younger and naturally insurgent elements of the community from thinking too much about internal political conditions and lack of employment.”[7] The Italian Fascists had all of these and more as goals when they set out to both control and nurture the sport domestically with an eye to international competition.

     

     

    Italian fascist youths performing group exercises, 1936

     

    Italian fascist youths performing group exercises, 1936

     

     

    The hand the Fascist regime played in the rapid expansion of organized football in Italy can be seen most concretely in the proliferation of Fascist funded and built football stadiums. “In addition to draining marshes and building roads, the stock in trade of dictatorial regimes, the Fascists built modern soccer stadiums as monuments to their glory.”[8] Stadiums were built throughout Italy.

     

     

    The “Mussolini” stadium in Turin that hosted the 1933 World University Games, the “Littoriale” in Bologna, the Stadium “della Vittoria” in Bari, the “Berta” in Florence, the “Edda Ciano Mussolini” in Livorno, the “XXVIII Ottobre” in L’Aquila, and the “Citta dello Sport” which opened in Rome in 1932.[9]These stadiums were put forward as a “sign of a fascist will to work and achieve power.”[10]These stadiums served a dual purpose, as they both asserted the industrial might of the fascist regime and helped Italian football grow and flourish, not to mention the fact that it was an essential part of the regime’s push to host the 1934 cup.

     

     

    1934 World Cup Champion Italian Team Hoist Manager Vittorio Pozzo

     

    1934 World Cup Champion Italian Team Hoist Manager Vittorio Pozzo

     

     

    The influence of Mussolini on Italian football was felt not just in the physical realm of stadiums, but also at the organizational level. The Fascist regime was prone to directly controlling the administrative bodies of even the smallest elements of Italian society, and football was certainly not immune from this tendency.

     

     

    The overwhelming success of the Italian national team during the 1930s was overseen by a man by the name of Vittorio Pozzo.[11] Pozzo was “Short, tubby, with black glasses and a shock of bizarre white hair,” and a larger than life persona.[12] Foot suggests, “Pozzo presided over la nazionale as a kind of dictator after the chaos of the initial period.”[13] In this case, the use of the word dictator is not irrelevant, because it was this style of management that made Pozzo seem to some a microcosm of the Fascist government in Italy at large. His unprecedented success during his time in charge of the national team from 1929 until 1948[14]—of eighty eight matches played the Italians won sixty, drew sixteen, and lost only eleven[15]—could be, and often was, viewed as not just a success for Italy, but for the Fascist Regime itself.

     

     

    Pozzo’s Fascist credentials were apparently validated when, in response to protests during the Italian national anthem at the opening game in Marseille in 1938, “he ordered his team to hold their fascist salute until the anti-fascists in the crowd had stopped whistling.”[16] Yet, this perception of Pozzo as a strong adherent to the Fascist Party line was challenged by evidence that surfaced in the 1990s that he in fact helped the anti-fascist resistance and helped Allied prisoners of war escape during the war. So, perhaps the relationship between Vittorio Pozzo and Mussolini’s regime was more a superficial one. As Foot argues, “Much of the fascist influence on sport—as in Italian everyday life—was symbolic.”[

     

    – See more at: http://sites.duke.edu/wcwp/research-projects/football-and-politics-in-europe-1930s-1950s/mussolinis-football/#sthash.qJzBp2QN.dpuf

  3. There are people out there who don’t like us being associated with William Wallace…..I think the hun have stuck us in

  4. eddieinkirkmichael on

    In hopes of quietly proceeding through their execution and deportation policies, the Nazis welcome football’s revival during their occupation. It was dubbed one of their many methods under the “pacification by normalization” strategy 1. Little did they know, an amalgam of old-footballers-turned-bakers under the epithet FC Start would actively quell Nazi hopes for an obsequious Kiev. This team, as much legend as they are myth, made the mistake of losing against a team bred not to ever do so.

     

     

     

     

    FC Start

     

     

    The vast majority of Start’s roster consisted of seasoned Dynamo players, such as Alexei Klimenko, the incredibly young but equally ferocious defender, Mikhail Sviridovsky, Fyodor Tyutchev, Mikhail Putistin, the 1936 silver medal veteran, and Nikolai Korotkykh. His forwards were Nikolai Makhinya, Pavel Komarov, Ivan Kuzmenko, the beast who practiced with a football impregnated with two others so he could kick the original one thrice as far, and Makar Goncharenko. The last three came from Lokomotiv, a club team of equal caliber and status. They were Mikhail Melnik, Vladimir Balain and Vasily Sukharev 2 . Barred by the Nazis from the name “Dynamo” (a creation of evil Soviet forces), the players symbolically chose the name Start- whose meaning remains largely the same thing as it does in English 3. It was subtly representative of a new beginning and painstakingly apolitical.

     

     

    A team photo of FC Start.

     

    A team photo of FC Start.

     

     

    Image: http://esfuerzomaximo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/fc_start.jpg

     

     

     

     

    Unstoppable Start

     

     

    Little time was to pass before Start became something of a legend. Their Zenit-christening game against Hungary saw them win 6-2. Days later, they would beat the Romanian garrison team at Zenit 11-0. Slowly, Nova Ukrainksi Slovo began coverage of Start’s games. While restricted at best, the press’s acknowledgment secured a consistent fan base at their games and bolstered their growing reputation. As morale began to build with each subsequent Start win, the Germans began imposing admission charges. A hefty five roubles to the impecunious crowds did not stop them from coming- it was their only hope at escape, albeit just an emotional one 4. When Start defeated their first German team, PGS (a military unit), 6-0 the German spirit towards the game began to change 5 .

     

     

    Start would continue to play another, stronger Hungarian team known as MSG Wal and defeat them 5-1. Complaints ensued that MSG Wal had only ten players due to an injury, and they called for a rematch. Drawing large crowds and more intense competition, the rematch still saw Start away with a 3-2 win 6. Germany was displeased. The team was not only undefeated, but also quickly adhering to their reputation as folk heroes. In response came team Flakelf, the German official Luftwaffe team, assembled with pure and perfect Aryans. The Luftwaffe halo floating above the Flakelf team offered an aura of invincibility, and a personification of purebred superiority. The goal was to rid Kiev of its rallying force without shooting or imprisoning those responsible for it, since that would only result in 11 martyrs. The game between Flakelf and Start occurred on August 6th, 1942, and the latter won a simple game 5-1 7. The loss put Hitler’s philosophy in stark jeopardy. The perfection of the Aryan nation implied superiority in all respects, especially in the physical realm of sport.

     

     

     

     

    Revenge

     

     

    Inevitably, the capitulation of Flakelf to Start resulted in a harsh and significant blow that the Nazi’s would have to avenge. The rematch was scheduled for Sunday the 9th of August- and signs alerting the masses of the game plagued the city. The leaflets were symbolically printed on the same paper as Nazi official announcements, and below the word “football” read the word “revenge”- of equal size and prominence 8 . In a matter of days, the leisurely addition to the Nazi occupation had transformed from a morale booster to a political agenda.

     

     

    The flyer that was passed out to advertise the “Revenge” match between FC Start and Flakelf.

     

    The flyer that was passed out to advertise the “Revenge” match between FC Start and Flakelf.

     

     

    Image: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UKPtjLJJALw/SZwVhbq7h9I/AAAAAAAAAhI/vxKizUrgz6Q/s400/death+match.jpg

     

     

    Before the match, a man dressed in SS uniform entered Start’s locker room with a precise and famous message. All accounts of this moment highlight his impeccable Russian, most likely to emphasize how clear the Germans intended the message to be. In few words, much was communicated: “ ‘I am the referee of today’s game. I know you are a very good team. Please follow all the rules, do not break any of the rules, and before the game greet your opponents in our fashion’” 9. His point was clear: their referee was an SS officer, they were expected to salute and “Heil Hitler” before the match, and they were expected- not by skill, but by sense- to lose.

     

     

     

     

    The Match

     

     

    The players decided, despite all logic, that to throw the game was a disgrace to soccer and to Kiev. Once they had come to that decision, they performed wholeheartedly. In response to Flakelf’s “Heil Hitler!” FC Start, pretending to reciprocate, began to raise their arms only to pound them to their chests and yell “FizcultHura!” the Soviet sporting salute and the antithesis of the referee’s request. Having done so, Start understood the referee would not call anything against the Germans. They could not hope to reciprocate the roughhousing on pain of disqualification. Additionally, Flakelf was not simultaneously working 24-hour days, nor were they malnourished, nor weak. It was an unfair match up from whistle to whistle. German aggression was manifest and steadfast; some claim they knocked Trusevich unconscious for several minutes, a considerable advantage as they scored on him a few minutes later. It wasn’t until Kuzmenko scored a goal from a hefty thirty yards out (thanks be to his training ball three times regulation weight) that the game showed any signs of equalizing. From then on, Start’s technical superiority could not be dismantled with aggression and unfairness. Going into the half they were leading 3-1 . In the tense limbo between halves, various visitors to the FC Start locker room (including an SS Officer) warned them of the consequencs of winning. However, the second half unfolded to two more goals on each side when the referee blew the whistle before the 90 minutes had lapsed: 5-3 Start . The possibility for Flakelf to lose by more than two was inconceivable and the discomfort tangible. They players shook hands and left the field 10.

     

     

     

     

    The Aftermath

     

     

    One fateful day the players were one by one summoned to Kordik’s office, where a Gestapo officer awaited them. Never returning to Bakery No. 3, they were taken to Gestapo headquarters in Korolenko Street. Despite being placed in different cells, they could still communicate via expressions and glances. Torturous interrogations followed in German hopes of the players’ concession as thieves or saboteurs. Not one gave in 11. Nikolai Korotkykh, the Start forward, was devastatingly given away by his sister as a former NKVD officer and was tortured to death by the Gestapo 12 . The rest of the team was sent to Siretz, a death camp feigned as labor camp, two days after Korotkykh’s death. It was a death sentence, and ultimately resulted in the infamous term Death Match, of which nearly every Ukrainian is aware. On February 24th, 1943, it was decided that every third prisoner was to be shot at Siretz. This fate befell the no-longer-burly Kuzmenko, the baby Klimenko and the fatherly Trusevich, who died in his goalie jersey. Goncharenko and Sviridovsky escaped. The fates of the others are unknown and the rest is, as they say, history

     

    – See more at: http://sites.duke.edu/wcwp/research-projects/football-and-politics-in-europe-1930s-1950s/hitler-and-nazi-philosophy/the-death-match/#sthash.52zf8T21.dpuf

  5. Sign striker and creative midfielder?

     

    So they can struggle in a poorly implemented system?

     

    We need better coaching,

     

    Our system is cautious and incomplete,

     

    The spacing of our players leaves acres of room for opponents to exploit,

     

    Our lack of off the ball movement and the proximity of team mates leave few options for ball retention,

     

    We have a good squad of players but lack the coaching to make them a good team,

  6. Ernie Lynch

     

     

    So bloody predictable….English people are a decent bunch and I have worked there on and off for years. Made many, many friends. I just don’t want them ruling us.

     

    Most governments for the past 50 years have been Tory, and when Labour they have as bad as the Tories. I just want an independent Scotland with a left of centre government that still

     

    embraces a free market.

     

    I want to leave a legacy for my children and their children and independence is the best way to

     

    achieve that.

     

    My Da’s grandfather ‘s was a Tim, my

     

    Grandfather was a Tim. My Da was a Tim, I’m a Tim and my weans are Tim’s and their weans will be Tim’s.

     

    Maybe a wee bit emotional but I as one brought up to vote Labour and did so for years I now detest them .

  7. Oglach

     

     

     

     

    22:34 on

     

     

    27 November, 2013

     

     

     

     

    Talking of the Board doing Hee Haw about a corrupt governing body have all petitioners received answers to why Resolution 12 was canned or what ever the euphemism used was?

     

    ==========================

     

    The statement was put out over a number of web sites. e.g.

     

     

    http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/resolution-12-shareholder-statement/

     

     

    Not all the e mail addresses were in the one place or held on line so it was put out over as many avenues as possible.

  8. Oglach

     

     

    It was not canned. Celtic have been asked to provide a blank template of the form that would have been used to get approval at the Art 66 stage.

     

     

    What has been picked up since the AGM is that the process at this point is one of self certification. What we know is that CW tells porkies. Join the dots.

  9. Ok ghuys, had enough. If I really listen to all that is being said on here tonight, I will, honestly consider renewing my ST. The hatred on this blog is beyond belief, and I will check through other Celtic blogs if this is normal. I am convinced Celtic as a company will be screening sites such as this, and if there is no action taken on behalf of the “real Celtic supporters”, the ones who live and breathe Celtic, from Glasgow and surrounding areas, I despair for our future.

     

     

    Weefra HH supporting Wee Oscar

  10. Auldheid @ 00:41 on 28 November, 2013

     

     

    Any update that you can share with us?

     

     

    How many meetings have taken place in the last 12 days?

     

     

    Do you think things are going well?

  11. Really what I’m saying is, sicken the Glasgow support, the club is died. Simples. Think about it. Night Night Timland.

     

     

    Weefra HH supporting Wee Oscar.

  12. Auldheid @ 00:41 on 28 November, 2013

     

     

    sorry cross posted.

     

     

    things seem to be moving on.

     

     

    how do you feel? optimistic?

  13. When I used to got to Celtic Park, I loved visiting the Celtic Supporters Association in London Road for a couple of hours before the game. Apart from a few relaxing beers and good company, there was always an Irish Republican band on and the rebel/political songs were given an airing.

     

     

    When we left for the game, we left the rebel songs behind in the club. It was a fine balance. If you enjoyed a beer or two while listening to or even joining in the political songs, then it was done in the pubs and clubs around the east end, but not in the stadium.

     

     

    Nobody forced us to go to these pubs and clubs and listen to the songs, and that’s the way it should be. That is why the political stuff has no place inside Celtic Park.

     

     

    Bobby Sands is a particular hero of mine, but that is personal to me. I have no right to force people attending a football match to witness my homage to the man, whether in song or in banners.

     

     

    As I say, do that in the pubs and clubs before and after the game where you are in the company of others who have exercised that choice.

     

     

    Whether we like it or not, a lot of ordinary people find such political displays offensive in the context of a football match. That doesn’t necessarily make them bigots as has been claimed. Of course some of them will be bigots, but that is hardly the point.

     

     

    If those same people were to come into the pub or club where I am singing those songs and demand that I stop, I would be within my rights to tell them to get stuffed.

     

     

    But why should it be forced on them at a football match, as opposed to a politacl/republican rally?

  14. Does Ernie Have The Vote….!

     

     

    Did The Suffragettes Die In Vain..?

     

     

    How The English-Speaking Peoples Brought Freedom To The World..

     

     

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100247847/how-we-invented-freedom-and-why-it-matters/

     

     

    ~~~~

     

     

    Hope Our Resident Janitor……

     

     

    Is Keeping A Running Total Of The Fines Levied Against Celtic FC…..

     

     

    By The Footballing Authorities……

     

     

    Resulting From The Irresponsible Actions Of The Green Brigade….

     

     

    Take More Than A Few Bucket Collections….

     

     

    To Raise That Sum……

     

     

    Probably Enough To Ensure That Celtic Were Able To Pay All Employees The Minimum Wage……..

     

     

    If They Weren’t Haemorrhaging Funds As A Result Of The Actions Of These Pimply Airheads…..

     

     

    And Their SINISTER Organisers….

     

     

    ~~~~

     

     

    My Goodness….GCT ! You’ve Surely Changed Your Tune On The Issue Of The Green Brigade….

     

     

    Viva Chris Torie…!

     

     

    Night…

  15. benny bhuela

     

     

    No meetings because two of the folk involved are overseas and need to see the actual SFA responses. That will not happen until around Xmas.

     

     

    From what has been seen there are questions about the SFA’s responsibilities with regard to monitoring and whether, in view of the fact certain clubs cannot be trusted, the process needs tightening.

     

     

    However something has turned up that is being looked at that will help decide if the SFA response in terms of whether the bill was an overdue payable or not stands up.

     

     

    The reason the Res was adjourned was not to swerve it but to ensure the SFA responses did not contradict other information.

  16. TSD –

     

     

    It’s a different issue.

     

     

    I support or disagree on specific issues rather than a particular voice.

     

     

    I can support the GB on one issue but disagree on another surely.

  17. Sorry bhoys but our board can’t preach to any c*** because they allow this lot to run riot with the rules @scottishfa so I’m supporting the GB

  18. You know I’m not a huge fan of political displays in the stadium but I actually thought the GB were quite cleverly making a point about how we’re about the bombarded with nearly a year of nationalistic anthems and symbols and also that some of those appear to be acceptable in the context of international games. Yet others that they’d like to celebrate are not.

     

     

    However they then show incredible naivety by doing it at a European game when every man and his dog knows that a) they’ll get shopped and b) UEFA are very opposed to political statements.

     

     

    It’s all so sadly and incredibly predictable.

  19. 16 roads - Wee Oscar the Celtic warrior. on

    Who gives a daffy duck about UEFA anyway?

     

     

    It’s all nonsense.

     

     

    You look at them poor wee huns.

  20. 16 roads - Wee Oscar the Celtic warrior. on

    Also poor people starving to death all over the world.

     

     

    Consider yourselves blessed.

     

     

    Celtic has never let me down…win,lose or draw.

     

     

    Think about it.

  21. macjay1 for Neil Lennon on

    Tom McLaughlin

     

    01:22 on

     

    28 November, 2013

     

     

    Yes.

     

    A matter of principle.

     

    One group`s politics tolerated? Any group`s politics tolerated.

     

    Where would it stop?

     

    The Maggie Thatcher faithful ?

     

    :-)

  22. greenyinfurrafenian on

    so its a uefa “crime” to fly a banner with the image of a democratically elected member of the westminster parliament. wonder how much a stooshie would be kicked up if it was someone truly repugnant like winston churchill, ye know the guy who sent troops into george sq to qwell the red clydesiders or enoch powell with rivers of blood speech?

  23. greenyinfurrafenian –

     

     

    My guess is that if Celtic fans displayed banners with the image of Churchill and/or Powell, the club would be facing a UEFA disciplinary charge.

  24. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on

    SFTB

     

     

    I believe I have always been the voice of reason laced with “arrogant caustic sarcasm” not my quote ….or yours either

     

     

    The only way that we will get into another league is to play dirty. That means threatening to lift the veil of corruption of the SFA and UEFA via other conduits.

     

     

    That would mean the club becoming a target for the football authorities and cooperating with UEFA governments.

     

     

    It would therefore be wise to bank money until that war of attrition is solved. It also means accepting poor targeted legislation, beyond stringent safety officers, police intimidation, regular fines etc.

     

     

    Or its heads down and do as your told

     

     

    BUT the malaise needs addressed

     

     

    If we were party to the above you would not be able to get a ticket for CP and our away attendances in Europe would be bolstered by the common man scunnered with the overt corruption.

     

     

    I live in hope.

     

     

    HH

  25. To Every Thing There is a Season – Ecclesiastes 3. 1-8

     

     

    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

     

    A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

     

    A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

     

    A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

     

    A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

     

    A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

     

    A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

     

    A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

  26. 16 roads - Wee Oscar the Celtic warrior. on

    F them all,that’s what I say.

     

     

    It’s dhog eat dog.

     

     

    Ourselves alone,if that’s the way ye wanna term it.

     

     

    Nobody cares,only us.

     

     

    The GB asked the question – what is wrong,what is right?

     

     

    We can never be defeated,regardless.

     

     

    It’s no big deal.

  27. greenyinfurrafenian on

    tom

     

     

    its not so much the uefa charge i was getting at, tho i agree with what you say. its the reporting of it, and the outrage that is being expressed.

     

     

    locally, it has been (in my eyes) demonised as the work of treasonous irish republicans.

     

     

    thats why i made the reference of being democratically elected

  28. Robert Kelly came to mind tonight on reading the various stories re the banner.

     

    Everyone remembers his stance on the flag.

     

    However, although it’s more recent I suspect few recall his political stance after the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia which suppressed the Prague Spring.

     

    The Bold Bob refused to play our drawn tie against Ferencvaros and forced UEFA to redraw the round keeping soviet bloc countries separate from the other teams.

     

    So the tradition of political expression is ingrained in Celtic.

     

     

    I may not agree with what you say,

     

    But I defend to the death your right to say it.

  29. I'm Neil Lennon (tamrabam) on

    I feel that this message from campsiejoe on TSFM in response to a sevconian claiming years of history is worth a read – Enjoy………….

     

     

    I have just caught up with Bryce’s verbal contortions to justify his stance on the status of the club playing at Ibrox

     

    As I understand his musings, in common with the rest of the Sevconians and the MSM, he believes the Club is an immortal entity

     

    It is completely separate from the company, and only requires the company to accept, and be responsible for all of the financial and administration requirements of the Club

     

    It has no responsibilities beyond playing football and winning games

     

    The company alone is responsible for raising all of the finance required and meeting all of the Club’s day to day requirements

     

    It most definitely has no responsibility for any administrative errors made by the company, nor for any debts incurred by the company in satisfying the Club and its supporters’ voracious appetites

     

    Should the company fail to deal with those errors, or honour those debts, the Club can remove itself from said company,washing its hands of all of the company’s responsibilities, and leech like, find another company that will continue to support it and sustain it, in the manner to which the Club and supporters believes they are entitled

     

    In short it has no responsibilities, but it does have many rights and entitlements which everyone must recognise, accept, and help it fulfil, not least of which is the right to be seen and treated as the same immortal entity

     

    Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, this is how Bryce and many others see the situation

     

    Every argument they use has been destroyed many times over, by others better qualified than me, and yet they continue to cling to the myth that has been created for them

     

    Their sense of superiority and entitlement will not allow them to see the truth, as to do so would be to admit failure

     

    And as with so many things, failure is not an option

  30. 16 roads - Wee Oscar the Celtic warrior. on

    “Bob Kelly fought Celtic’s corner everywhere he went.He was also one of the most honest men you could ever meet.He might not always have been popular,but he always did what he thought was right and never did anything crooked or underhand.

     

    He was respected throughout Scotland,and he sorted out the SFA,back when they tried to make Celtic take down the flag.

     

    That was his finest hour as far as I was concerned.” – Sean Fallon.