Football debts and non-football debts are often dealt with differently by club administrators. Un-secured creditors generally have to wait in line but a football club has a different mechanism to regain lost income.
Rangers FC PLC (in administration), as the excellent Paul McConville informed us the club should legally now be referred to, owe money to Dundee United for the recent Scottish Cup game, Hearts for the transfer of Lee Wallace and Dunfermline for tickets for last Saturday’s league game. All three clubs have recourse to the SPL and SFA if the administrator hangs them out to dry, but they will not be the most pressing concerns for Rangers FC PLC (in administration).
Inverness Caledonian Thistle are due money for tickets provided to Rangers FC PLC (in administration) for their match at Inverness later this month. Rangers FC PLC (in administration) have sold tickets for this match and will, presumably, continue to do so, however, the administrator will have to decide on a course of action:
Pay Inverness or withhold the money for other purposes and ask the club to admit their fans without payment.
In this instance, other purposes would be: payment of their administration fees, payment of other creditors, payment of footballers to face Inverness.
How Rangers FC PLC (in administration) deal with Inverness will be an early concern, but our old friends Rapid Vienna, who are due the final payment of the Nikica Jelavic transfer, will complicate matters further down the line. Their recourse will be to Fifa, who ensure transfer fees are paid, without reference to administration or even a prepack liquidation.
The concerns Celtic Quick News first raised in October about a prepack fait accompli being offered to the SPL now feels less threatening.
One final push (this week) for the Vanessa Riddle Appeal. We have a Celtic top signed by the first team squad available to auction on eBay. You can bid on the auction and help send Vanessa for the treatment she needs by clicking here. Thanks to Penfold for the donation and to Taggsybhoy for organising (yet again).
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Scottish sports minister Shona Robison effcetively telling the administratores to go easy on the Hun.
WTF !?!
Why didn’t she (and her like) poke her nose in years ago when the dodgy dealings were in full flow and nip the problem in the bud.
We all know the answer to that one…
I wonder what security Ticketus got for there 24 Million was the money paid up front to Rangers ? I just cant see ticketus handing over 24 million without security knowing the situation at Ibrokes.Now the most likely outcome of the Rangers situation is that they will go into liquidation where exactly does that leave ticketus ?bhoys there are many many questions that are going to need answered both Whyte and Murray need to be fully investigated over what has gone on at the club during there chairmanship.H.H.
Is Mise Neil Lennon says:
15 February, 2012 at 14:24
falkirkbhoy says:
15 February, 2012 at 14:20
All these non-celtic fans coming out and speaking against a Newco
Don’t mean to advertise but I posted some comments from other SPl Forums earlier @13.14
share
Sorry, should have mentioned, it was your post that cheered me up about other football fans #notonewco
The ‘Falkirk’ fans can’t see how Scottish football will get out of this without them.
Real ‘falkirk’ fans are thinking extra seat at the table for them. But some think it is too soon for them, with their money worries, they would rather consolidate another year in the 1st then move up.
Word on the street was that members of the falkirk board, where upset at their win aginst the Rangers in the cup! They had set their budget for the expected payment for being knocked out of the cup at that round.
Don’t UEFA/FIFA frown upon governments getting involved with football matters? the sports minister can eff right off, wonder if they’ll try spinning it as the big bad UK HMRC trying to destroy a scottish “institution”. Ridiculous how desperate people want these cheats and tax dodgers to survive.
`Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 says:
15 February, 2012 at 13:46
Nice one.
I can scarcely believe I was away on a family holiday (without internet access) when the news finally broke!
Wonderful news!
I havent read back yet and cant wait to tuck the little ones away and immerse myself in a proper ‘catch-up’
It’s interesting (yet depressing) to watch the scottish media now asking the questions that they should have been for the last x years!
“All this happened on the watch of Sir David and a gaggle of other directors who are now pointing fingers accusingly in the direction of Whyte. The present Rangers owner may not be blameless. There should be no dubiety over the culpability of the previous incumbent.”
From the previously spineless Herald!
Oh and btw, when did rankers fc plc (in administration) – thanks for this Paul – lose another 10 points? That’s 25 points we’ve gained on them since early November. Tee hee!
HH
Faced with the prospect of a night out with The Battered Bunnett, Mrs TBB elects to stay in and listen to the phone ins.
Hmmmm. Interpretation is key.
Celtic Dev XI to face Huddersfield(4-4-2) Zaluska; Cha, Fraser, Blackman, Izaguirre; Commons, Ki, Juarez, McCourt; Ibrahim, Rasmussen (MH)
Celtic Dev. XI Subs: Feely, McGregor, Irvine, Watt, Atajic (MH)
Dev. Squad game kicked off at 3.15pm. Half-time score is 0-0. (MH)
courtesy Mark Henderson
@celticfc
Guys..
Callin’ awe you Clandestine Operators..
You know who ye ur..
Those..
Who..
Have.. Forbidden Access tae the Thoughts , Hopes and Dreams..which ur
being revealed in Public..
by the Subscribers o’ a Forum, which is dedicated tae the Exclusive Allegiance o’ that o’ oor Rivals.
Ah am jist dyin’ tae eavesdrap oan whit the Fans of the G.A. are
Saying aboot awe o’ this,Heart Ache and Pain, which has bin Visited oan them.
Get Crackin’,you Guys..
and
Feed us some.. Dirt!
Kojo.
Blantyrekev
TBB was going on about what a handsome dan you are earlier
I think there is more to it than meets the eye … listening to phone ins ?????? come on !!!! ;-)
Hail Hail
Bounce game V Rudderless Hudders
Where’s Mo?
While I feel some sympathy for Hearts beacuse they are owed money for Wallace…I can’t help feeling they were fools to agree to such a deal with Rangers in the 1st place. We’ve all known this day was coming. There was always a danger they would end up as unsecured creditors waiting on the balance.
It’s more understandable for European clubs to have been caught out this way
DBBIA
injurt !
Kojo – Just for you amigo:)
slainte
tony
Today, 09:52
shuntergers8
Gold Star Poster Join Date: 27-03-2008
Posts: 2,857
If we have to start over again
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with a new club name and the other SPL clubs eg: the unwashed and utd ask for us to have sanctions for up to 3 years then i would rather stick by the rules of liquidation and start in the 3rd division. Remember we will not be in europe for 3 years
1. it gives rangers 3 years to build gradually and more time to find new investors.
2, the 3rd , 2nd , and 1st division clubs will benefit from rangers being in their divison whist the SPL all suffer
3. the 3 years we are not in the SPL means that there will be virually NO tv deal for the SPL clubs which means less revenue , less fans will also turn up at game which again basically means they are weaker
4. celtic will be able to cope financially…NO THEY WONT , they will need to cut their squad , have a vastly reduced TV deal if one at all , less fans coming through turnstyles , less sponsorship due to rangers not being in the league.
basically after 3 years when we are back in the SPL the other clubs including the unwashed in the SPL will be much weaker than they are today. Rangers will after 3 years be stronger and should be able to launch a title bid and qualify for europe.
I certainly would not accept the 15 points for 3 season runours to stay in the SPL….f.uck the rest of…look after ourselves and watch the rest of them suffer too…for 3 years….Remember these are the arsehole clubs that knocked back the SKY TV deal a few year ago and it cost them millions.
RANGERS 1ST everybody else can fu.ck off
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#2 Today, 09:55
johnmcturk
Trialist Join Date: 05-11-2006
Posts: 86
Re: If we have to start over again
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Agree whole heartedly, let them rot in their own wee world.
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#3 Today, 09:55
Jpooler92
On The Bench Join Date: 24-11-2009
Posts: 250
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
if we were forming as a new co we would not be punished for taking old rangers place in the league. why would we? we are a brand new company, we have no history to be punished for.
if we wanted to keep our history and use the same registration to stay in the league then we would have to accept a point deduction
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#4 Today, 10:21
Million$man
FF Squad Member Join Date: 29-07-2006
Posts: 502
Re: If we have to start over again
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Yeha i agree we should start at the bottom. Be in charge of our own TV deals as the small clubs would all play ball. Then watch one by one as clubs in the SPL go bust without our money or even probably a TV deal. We are the majority audience- don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, we are the draw in this nation.
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#5 Today, 10:51
del1981
Trialist Join Date: 27-04-2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 221
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
The new company wouldnt be as big as Rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following Rangers 2012.
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#6 Today, 10:53
Jpooler92
On The Bench Join Date: 24-11-2009
Posts: 250
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by del1981
the new company wouldnt be as big as rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following rangers 2012.
liquidation does not mean we lose our history!!!
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#7 Today, 10:58
strathavenbear
Waiting On A Sunny Day Join Date: 31-07-2006
Location: Strathaven
Posts: 2,169
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by del1981
The new company wouldnt be as big as Rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following Rangers 2012.
Why would a team called Rangers, playing at Ibrox with the same staff, support etc not be Rangers?
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#8 Today, 10:59
MDC
Moderator of the Year 1824 Join Date: 08-08-2008
Posts: 6,049
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by del1981
The new company wouldnt be as big as Rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following Rangers 2012.
I assume you don’t follow Rangers at present…
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#9 Today, 11:01
Agent_Cooper
Trialist Join Date: 05-06-2008
Posts: 199
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by del1981
The new company wouldnt be as big as Rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following Rangers 2012.
Utterly bizarre. I really don’t get this point of view. Do people sit at games thinking “come on Rangers 1872”?
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#10 Today, 11:02
brooklynblue
Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain Join Date: 30-07-2006
Location: By The Turntable With Ann Peebles
Posts: 5,328
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Where do you think the tv cameras will be at the start of next season – an SPL game or the Rangers game in the 3rd Division as we start again?
Us in the 3rd Division will be the story of the season beyond doubt.
I really hope we don’t go cap-in-hand to the SPL.
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#11 Today, 11:02
TheKillerToad
On The Bench Join Date: 22-02-2011
Posts: 268
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpooler92
if we were forming as a new co we would not be punished for taking old rangers place in the league. why would we? we are a brand new company, we have no history to be punished for.
if we wanted to keep our history and use the same registration to stay in the league then we would have to accept a point deduction
Theoretically we would be punished for “skipping” through Div 1,2 and 3 and going into the SPL as a new company.
There is no precedent so that is where the huge punishment ideas are coming from
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#12 Today, 11:02
TOBL
Trialist Join Date: 04-02-2011
Posts: 70
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by del1981
The new company wouldnt be as big as Rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following Rangers 2012.
Why not. we would be the same club.
We would still officially be ‘The Rangers Football Club’, we would still play at Ibrox, we would still have the same badge etc.
Leeds did what we might do (phoenix club route) and they were still Leeds United Association Football Club (LUAFC) before and after, same badge, same history, same club.
Anyone who wouldn’t support our club after liquidation is a glory hunter. Yes, we would have sanctions imposed for the initial years by UEFA and the SPL, but we will be back.
Rangers Football Club is a football club. It’s not a limited company. It is owned by a limited company. If that limited company goes bust it’ll be transferred to another limited company or some other legal entity. It will never die.
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#13 Today, 11:04
johnoblue
1st Team Regular Join Date: 11-04-2009
Location: little Dunmow
Posts: 1,011
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by shuntergers8
with a new club name and the other SPL clubs eg: the unwashed and utd ask for us to have sanctions for up to 3 years then i would rather stick by the rules of liquidation and start in the 3rd division. Remember we will not be in europe for 3 years
1. it gives rangers 3 years to build gradually and more time to find new investors.
2, the 3rd , 2nd , and 1st division clubs will benefit from rangers being in their divison whist the SPL all suffer
3. the 3 years we are not in the SPL means that there will be virually NO tv deal for the SPL clubs which means less revenue , less fans will also turn up at game which again basically means they are weaker
4. celtic will be able to cope financially…NO THEY WONT , they will need to cut their squad , have a vastly reduced TV deal if one at all , less fans coming through turnstyles , less sponsorship due to rangers not being in the league.
basically after 3 years when we are back in the SPL the other clubs including the unwashed in the SPL will be much weaker than they are today. Rangers will after 3 years be stronger and should be able to launch a title bid and qualify for europe.
I certainly would not accept the 15 points for 3 season runours to stay in the SPL….f.uck the rest of…look after ourselves and watch the rest of them suffer too…for 3 years….Remember these are the arsehole clubs that knocked back the SKY TV deal a few year ago and it cost them millions.
RANGERS 1ST everybody else can fu.ck off
Yes, this is something i have been thinking about also, but would we have a choice in the matter, i think not, as the SPL are fully aware of the financial implications in a premiere league without Rangers.
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#14 Today, 11:04
bluefish
FF Squad Member Join Date: 29-07-2006
Posts: 553
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
I agree with the op, I would also not ever take another ticket from any other team that voted us into having 3 seasons of sanctions, Never again would I give a penny to a proven enemy of the club. I would also knock back any tv deals say on a cup game that involved an enemy club.
If other clubs are not willing to help us in our darkest hour then they can stand on there own two feet.
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#15 Today, 11:07
Pennibear
On The Bench Join Date: 13-01-2011
Location: Penicuik
Posts: 295
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOBL
Why not. we would be the same club.
We would still officially be ‘The Rangers Football Club’, we would still play at Ibrox, we would still have the same badge etc.
Leeds did what we might do (phoenix club route) and they were still Leeds United Association Football Club (LUAFC) before and after, same badge, same history, same club.
Anyone who wouldn’t support our club after liquidation is a glory hunter. Yes, we would have sanctions imposed for the initial years by UEFA and the SPL, but we will be back.
Rangers Football Club is a football club. It’s not a limited company. It is owned by a limited company. If that limited company goes bust it’ll be transferred to another limited company or some other legal entity. It will never die.
Bang on the money, the Rangers football club isnt going anywhere. The company that owns the club might. Alot of people missing the point on this.
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#16 Today, 11:07
Jpooler92
On The Bench Join Date: 24-11-2009
Posts: 250
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKillerToad
Theoretically we would be punished for “skipping” through Div 1,2 and 3 and going into the SPL as a new company.
There is no precedent so that is where the huge punishment ideas are coming from
Airdrie skipped divison 3 and took clyebanks place in divison 2 without any punishments
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#17 Today, 11:11
The Big Cheese
FF Squad Member Join Date: 27-07-2009
Posts: 962
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by Million$man
Yeha i agree we should start at the bottom. Be in charge of our own TV deals as the small clubs would all play ball. Then watch one by one as clubs in the SPL go bust without our money or even probably a TV deal. We are the majority audience- don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, we are the draw in this nation.
What TV deals?
In the event of liquidation I’d not be averse to starting in Div 3, but what we have to realise that in that event we’d have to shed our entire squad. The Davis’ McGregors etc WILL NOT play in the lower leagues.
Attendances at Ibrox would collapse, it’d be a rocky rocky road.
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#18 Today, 11:11
stcharlesdave
Trialist Join Date: 31-01-2012
Location: USA
Posts: 32
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent_Cooper
Utterly bizarre. I really don’t get this point of view. Do people sit at games thinking “come on Rangers 1872”?
Some of the fans are vampires and the undead. They were at the original start of the club.
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#19 Today, 11:12
The Big Cheese
FF Squad Member Join Date: 27-07-2009
Posts: 962
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpooler92
Airdrie skipped divison 3 and took clyebanks place in divison 2 without any punishments
…and who’s place would we be taking?
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#20 Today, 11:18
Eric Cartman
Counting the minutes until another ban from FF Join Date: 07-05-2011
Location: Loyalist Oz
Posts: 332
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOBL
Why not. we would be the same club.
Rangers Football Club is a football club. It’s not a limited company. It is owned by a limited company. If that limited company goes bust it’ll be transferred to another limited company or some other legal entity. It will never die.
precisely
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#21 Today, 11:19
ally12259
Storm Trooper Join Date: 11-08-2006
Posts: 5,381
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Cheese
…and who’s place would we be taking?
Jesus Christ. Are people really that thick?
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#22 Today, 11:26
Rankrotten
Sparkled Join Date: 12-05-2009
Location: West End
Posts: 834
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Allow two SFL teams promotion to the SPL and we take the spare place in Div 1. Ross County and Falkirk promoted, either Dunfermline or Hibs down and Rangers playing in SFL Div 1 for a season.
The Rangers support sell out every ground in Div 1 making lots of cash for the other teams in that league whilst not propping up the SPL for a year. Everyone wins.
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#23 Today, 11:27
Kaiser
Gold Star Poster Join Date: 04-08-2006
Location: Vince’s Fish & Chicken Bar
Posts: 2,991
Re: If we have to start over again
——————————————————————————–
Quote:
Originally Posted by del1981
The new company wouldnt be as big as Rangers1872 as alot of fans including myself would not be following Rangers 2012.
You speak for no one but yourself.
Bye, bye.
pin76 says
Suspect Hearts were so desperate for money themselves that they accepted the terms (instalments are the common method) rather than risk getting less or indeed the transfer not going through at all.
Of course as it has happened they got less anyway!
Awenaw -awenaw!
Botheration.
I can see his dream of using Celtic as a stepping stone to the EPL endnig in tears.
What was the SNP position on previous large job losses. Were they as concerned when the following happened:
Scottish College staff – 1000 jobs
LBG – 200 jobs
Highland Toffee – 185 jobs
Sausage factory – 11 jobs
Do the SNP consider some jobs to be more valuable than others?
Mort
I see that the BBC site still hasn’t updated the SPL table.
I feel their pain…
:o)
Hell mend them. They never thought this day would come. Brilliant articles from Paul. What a blog. I have done NO WORK @ the office during the last 2 days! Followed (snigger) every minute of the developing news ~ just couldn’t risk posting from work PC.
Next few days will see if all of the leverage being put down by the establishment apologists will have any traction. Surely hope not!
I hope PL is waiting on his chance to make timely comments on this. Tainted titles et al.
jcgeCSC
HH Gerry
What´s the story with Cousins been registered for the SFA bit not the SPL ?
Barrach, that works.
EKBhoy, no idea how much cash Craig has left but what I hear is not very much.
The Idiot, Our Hero is no longer in control of events. The plan is miles off track. Yes, I remember being mocked for the Rangers insolvency predictions. Not all by Rangers fans, either.
mickthetic, it’s just too easy these days.
Kojo, can’t argue with that.
somethinghnotquitewhytehere, the old ones are the best.
twists n turns, still lots to do, the battle is all ahead.
Gerry, if anyone has moved that money out of Rangers, it’s not to invest in a new company. Don’t want to get ahead of events on such a delicate topic.
Gordon_J, Nicola make a very jobs-focussed comment yesterday.
iki, you’ve been shared.
Dontbrattbakkinanger says:
15 February, 2012 at 16:28
Don’t be silly. Mo will achieve his destiny, of that you can be sure. Just not this week.
What was the SNP position on previous large job losses. Were they as concerned when the following happened:
Scottish College staff – 1000 jobs
LBG – 200 jobs
Highland Toffee – 185 jobs
Sausage factory – 11 jobs
Do the SNP consider some jobs to be more valuable than others?
Mort
Spot on Mort. How many jobs went down the pan when Woolies shut up shop and did we hear any equivalent concerns from SNP (or M. Gurran for that matter)?
Gerry
His right foot is registered for the SPL, and his left foot for the SFL.
It’s the only way he could be accepted under the conditions of administration.
So depending what game he’s playing, he’ll have to go around with a big stookie on one foot, on which is written ‘denied!’.
Dontbrattbakkinanger says:
15 February, 2012 at 16:33
‘His right foot is registered for the SPL, and his left foot for the SFL.’
And between the two of them he makes a living, if I might paraphrase a Matt McGinn punchline.
Are the huns allowed back into cup comps if tehy go into admin ?
Who drops out for the huns ?
The day that Rangers died
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnjzOpdc1x0
Hail Hail
People have been discussing whether or not Rangers or HMRC won the debate in court 7 yesterday but my view is that both lost
HMRC know that Duff & Phelps are part of the scam and while against it HMRC will always comply with the law and legal decisions and legally Mr Whyte and Rangers cannot appoint their own administrators
I believe that the decision on who to appoint as administrators is definitely bad news for HMRC and good news for Mr Whyte. Of that there can be no question. No question whatsover. As is backed up by their stances / preferences in court yesterday.
However I disagree with the assumption that it is a win for Rangers. This gives the assumption that Mr Whyte and Rangers are aligned and my observations from afar are that they are very far from being aligned.
Duff & Phelps as administrators;
– Good news for Mr Whyte
– Bad news for HMRC
– Bad news for Rangers
Mr Murray, Mr Whyte have;
– benefitted from this transfer then subsequent administration (Murray by leaving the debt behind – Whyte for making some dough out of it)
– charged Rangers admin fees, lawyer fees, court fines and many more in doing so
– and both have therefore made sure the damage done to Rangers is even more than would have been without them looking after themselves
Rangers will probably survive (as newco or whatever) but they will survive battered and bruised and in a terrible state of affairs. Their plight has been made worse by messrs Murray and Whyte (and the media for their support of Murray and Whyte).
Duff & Phelps being appointed administrators is bad news for Rangers (but obviously not for Mr Whyte)
Mort
Agreed
Write to Salmond and get many others to as well…….
Highlight the idiocy of her suggestions and how any plans to engage on this will bring scorn on any perception of his governments credibility to deal with all things fiscal in the future………£75 or 100m of creditors is a lot of money…….punishment for offenders needs to be seen to be done
Similarly fairness and balance with other affected parties needs to be consistent and not bias as you suggest…….
I already did this via the SG….. hopefully many more will and they will see a contrary view to the media agenda.
Mmm —–
There are some very interesting people who have a financial stake in Palermo FC . I wouldn’t want to owe them money and then find myself unable to pay my debt.
Paul67 says:
15 February, 2012 at 16:30
‘Yes, I remember being mocked for the Rangers insolvency predictions. Not all by Rangers fans, either.’
TinyTim’s been quiet recently.
I hope he’s OK.
Did we Shauny Aluko just say goodbye via Twitter….
Incoming
Torontony at 16:26
The term “deluded” doesn’t seem to do justice to their ramblings.
Mort
Dontbrattbakkinanger at 16:33
That’s all very well, but what about his elbows?
That the main concern…
;o)
Sone Aluko:
Testing times for every one at RFC…great people and fans at the club in short time I’ve been there! Sure answers and clarity will come…
Sure u all will stay loyal to RFC!140years of success isnt easy to build! Long may it continue & sure it will!Thanks for msgs! #nosurrender
How does that read to everyone else?
ernie lynch 15 February, 2012 at 16:37
TinyTim’s been quiet recently.
Give him a break, he’s half way through eating his ten pund a totties.
tonybhoy says:
15 February, 2012 at 16:36
‘People have been discussing whether or not Rangers or HMRC won the debate in court 7 yesterday but my view is that both lost’
The huns paid HMRC’s legal fees. Draw your own conclusions.
I say paid. What I mean is agreed to pay. It’s a narrow difference, but Whyte has made a living out of that kind of difference all his life.
‘Sure answers and clarity will come’
…it maks nae sense tae me, and it maks nae sense tae Mo.
All Sone been sniffnig the Kiwi agane
From Twitter: Mark Daly, who did the BBC expose on Whyte, is doing another piece on Reporting Scotland tonight. I don’t know if this is just a heads up to friends and family or if he’ll be bringing something exciting.