Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson’s comments to yesterdays’ Herald are worthy of attention. During the summer, when United received a £1m bid from Rangers for David Goodwillie and Blackburn Rovers were hovering, Bank of Scotland, took an active part in the deliberations. Thompson told the Herald, “The bank wanted me to take £1.2m for him, but I said no to that. I had to stand up against the bank.”
Thompson more than doubled the money on offer for Goodwillie, allowing him to shave over £2m off their bank debt, but this exchange took place only a few months after the same bank told former Rangers chairman, Alastair Johnston, to accept the bid for the club from Motherwell born thousandaire Craig Whyte or the bank would demand same-day repayment of Rangers borrowings.
Bank of Scotland, part of Lloyds Banking Group (LBG), are significantly exposed to Scottish football and required a taxpayer bail-out two years ago, so although their interference in the running of clubs could seem overbearing, we shouldn’t be surprised at it. It’s business, and if you are employed at LBG with a responsibility to your taxpayer-shareholder, it’s necessary business.
Fortunately, Celtic are free from such interference, as are Rangers, thanks to their aforementioned benefactor, but if a liquidation event at a large club threatened income streams to the league I would be amazed if the Bank didn’t use the ‘Vote Newo FC into the SPL or repay your borrowings immediately’ line.
Stephen Thompson, who sits on the SPL board, might not have a choice on whether or not to vote a Newco FC into the SPL ahead of 30 Scottish Football League clubs, but he and his fellow board members will be able to set the tariff on any exceptional league entry to what would become a financially privileged football franchise.
12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.
This is measured, deliverable, is in the power of the SPL board to impose, and sets a minimum moral hazard to inhibit future mis-deeds.
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LBG favouring one customer over another customer …nowt new here of course but it shouldn´t be allowed within the sporting arena
Hail Hail
Paul67,
Apart from the multi year points penalty the newco should also have to forego any SKY/ESPN money for the £80m 5 year deal as the price of admission – each of the other 11 teams would get small but welcome extra tv money. Any director, player or management who was part of the scam or was paid with EBT’s to be banned for life from Scottish football – how many legneds would that entail?
Down forSam
Go,have a great time,oh and order Eggs Benedict for starters.Slan
DownForSam
Don’t know if I could endure the Nuremberg pre-match show, although perhaps worth it for the chance of a (sotto voce) evilgasm should they lose.
Could it be true? I have no idea of the legalities or otherwise of this situation I heard last night from a Rangers fan that there is a consortium of 6 orc fans each is prepared to put in 500.000 of there own money making a total of 3 million.They are prepared to buy the Spanish striker that Rangers have been linked to.The player will belong to the consortium and they will lease him to Rangers but the interesting bit is the consortium are prepared to pay the players wages as well .Now if the orcs go belly up the consortium will still own the player and will then lease him to Newco Rangers is this fact or fiction? H.H.
Why don’t we simply insist that Newco Rangers may only field 8 players at any time, 4 of whom must have been born before David Weir.
RogueLeader – Vote for Pedro. (thumbsup)
Mr Thompson is to be commended on having the courage of his convictions. Perhaps the bank will take the lesson on board and show him a modicum of trust when the next big decision comes up for discussion.
The bank will say, ‘Come on, you know it makes sense to have the Teddy Berrrs in the SPL. Think of all those exciting games against them in which your eight players tried so valiantly …’.
Stephen Thompson just needs to think about the increase in United’s chances of getting European football and what that might mean to his club. More power to him (after Saturday).
Joe Filippis Haircut – that is against FIFA rules. Cannot happen. Tevez burst the baw with that wheeze. Players must be wholly paid for by the clubs
Paul 67
If, (and I’m yet to be convinced), the decision to allow a newco huns into the SPL is a matter for the board of the SPL rather than the members of the SPL then those directors have to vote for what is in the best interests of the SPL.
That is one of their fiduciary duties as directors.
They are not delegates for their respective clubs (which they would be if they were voting as members).
If they were to allow their vote to be influenced by what was best for their club, or sucumb to pressure from their club’s bankers, then they would be in breach of their statutory duties.
Are you suggesting that the directors of the SPL might be prepared to breach the fiduciary duties they owe to the The Scottish Premier League Limited?
Philvis: I don’t think the events are even remotely comparable.
The consequences of the league extension would have been minimal, in the grand scheme of things, and could at least be argued on the grounds of helping a Scottish club compete in Europe … with only 1 potential loser.
The case in question is of an entirely different scale, affecting, as it does, almost every level of professional football in the land.
FF
Paul67
I don’t often comment on your articles generally because I agree mostly with what you say and they are of a high standard. When I do comment its generally due to something I disagree with.
Your article today is superb and counters a viewpoint often posted on CQN that the bank holding most of Scottish Football SPL debt would not be happy to back an unfair decision to allow a Newco back in the SPL.
Excellent work.
MWD
Joe
Clubs have to pay their players’ wages.
’12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.’
That cannot tally with a NewCo. If the orcs survive, then yes, that must be punishment. But a NewCo? It might stick in the craw to a massive extent due to the obvious connections with the OldCo, but there’s no way you can ‘punish’ a new business for the misdeeds of an old company.
Conversely, there’s no way a new company should receive all the privileges that an old company enjoyed purely on the basis of the old company being in such a privileged position – jist disnae mak sense at a’.
So, where does that leave us?
Ah yes, the tariff for entry.
15 points per season does indeed sound right. For 12 seasons also sounds about right, although I’d press for overall financial doping to be considered, i.e. 20 years.
Is this an illegal punishment though, or a rightful tariff, as you suggest? Well consider the overall points totals suggested by your good self and by me: 180 and 240 respectively. Now consider the number of points accrued by the three most recent winners of the 3rd division (67, 78 & 66), the 2nd division (76, 65 & 82) and the 1st division (65, 73 & 70). Easily distinguishable from those figures is that on average, you need about 70 points per season to win outright promotion and even with 70 points, you’re not guaranteed top spot in 5 seasons from those 9 posted (inc. 1 on goal difference).
So yes, anywhere between 180 and 240 (but closer to 240) points is a fair tariff for SPL entry, as this is what every single other club has had to ‘pay’ for similar.
Make no mistake and purely on a points only basis, by parachuting a NewCo into the SPL, that is what they are being gifted. This obviously and clearly excludes the monetary differences from three seasons at home to Berwick and Elgin as opposed to Celtic and Hearts.
So what monetary price for entry? £1 apparently is the share transfer price for entry to the SPL.
That’s your lot. They may pay a burden, a penury if you will, for instant entry to the SPL, but by that very act of parachuting, they will stand to earn, once more, multiples of tens of millions of pounds by means denied to every single other team they are competing against.
So, even paying a tariff for entry, they’d be handed yet another boost up the ladder and still some (and I suspect many loud voices will) would have us believe such a points deficit would be draconian and over the top.
Not this Bhoy and hopefully nobody else on here.
The Battered Bunnet – Why don’t we simply insist that Newco Rangers may only field 8 players at any time, 4 of whom must have been born before David Weir.
Lowe
Dunn
Le Mesurier
Pertwee
(thumbsup)
Do we honestly believe that fellow clubs and the football authority will do anything other than ensure that IF a Newco is formed they are put straight back into the SPL?
I firmly believe, through years of jaw dropping favourtism that it won’t even come to NewCo, SFA will ensure Rangers in their original form live on
Downforsam, don`t do it. Totally outnumbered and they`ll know youre not one of them due to your eyes being the correct distance apart. I had their `hospitality` once, would never consider it again, a horrible vile occasion, not helped by Charlie Nick having a great game for us, when I used to like him.
Paul67
A point penalty for newhun co is [ pointless ], they have no euro football for 3 seasons, in saying that they could get relegated, but with the help of the cheats with whistles that won’t happen.
I accept that a points penalty after the third season will have an effect and endorse that idea.
The removal of the trophys won is a given.
All the talk of a Div 3 start is just that talk, it’s never going to happen, the media, the banks. the spl, the sfa and any other interested parties will see to it that they will be in the spl.
I believe whatever transpires, the club should make the priority a complete overhaul of the refereeing system that allows for total transparency, where the referees are made to justify their decisions, and that refereeing reports are made public, this is the only way we will have a chance of anything like a level playing field, anything less is just more of the same.
You can’t take the hun from the hearts of the referees.
Resign Celtic.
Happy birthday Brimmer.
Philvis
Top scouting. You have more skills than even I knew
Down for Sam- Cults bhoy might be yer man :>
rogueleader. I immediately thought of Tevez when he was telling me about it and I didnt or dont have enough knowledge to know if its possible or not.However,the more you look into the pondland mob the murkier it becomes.H.H.
“12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.”
I would love to think that the above will happen, but dont think the SPL / SFA will let it happen. I just have this horrible feeling that when the dooda hits the fan, the ” league cant survive without a strong Ragers” will get wheeled out. They will be punished, but with minimal effect on them.
Hugh Keevins, prior to his roasting from Terry last night, seemed very positive that Celtic would vote newco straight in to the league. He seemed quite adamant about this……hopefully he was being his usual ill informed self!
Anybody else think that the doomsday scenario has already been worked out?
PC67
Folly Folly – I hope you’re right, but I’ll be surprised if there’s much wailing and gnashing of teeth in Scottish football at Huns Reunited being given reentry to the SPL.
Too many fans / chairmen / media types who have a soft spot for them. (thumbsup)
dirtymac says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:00
“That cannot tally ‘as a punishment’ with a NewCo.”
is what I meant to type
Was in Glasgow there, nipped in to Wenches for a pint.Davie Provan was in.
Joe – I think that the Tevez and Mascherano ssituation deemed that scenario to be outlawed?
Although interestingly, the EPL showed a precedent for bottling the right decision when they didnt relegate West Ham instead of Sheff Utd.
From the previous article, thanks Jobo :¬)
*******************
Vmhan Supporting Lenny! says:
12 January, 2012 at 12:37
Afternoon Celts, St Johnstone are fifth in the league and only 19 points behing Scotlands shame, that’s do-able innit :¬)
Awe naw may I add my birthday wishes to the rest ……… I hope you’re pubbing it !
Vinny
Vmhan Supporting Lenny! says:
12 January, 2012 at 12:40
re the auld energy debate……. I’d stick a wind turbine on top of the shiny new Nuclear power station ….. keep everybody happy :¬)
Wind_upisthewayforwardCSC
Vinny
Vmhan Supporting Lenny! says:
12 January, 2012 at 12:54
brimmer happy birthday!
Vinny
PC67- I think it was worked out a few months back when Sky re-negociated the TV deal.
Talking of bankers, just when you thought Alex Salmond couldn’t be any more contemptible or ridiculous, this pops up.
FIRST MINISTER OF SCOTLAND
Sir Fred Goodwin DUniv FCIBS FCIS LLD
Executive House G
Royal Bank of Scotland
Gogarburn
PO Box 1000,
Edinburgh
EH12 1HQ
May 2007
Dear Fred (handwritten)
I wanted you to know that I am watching events closely on the ASN front. It is in Scottish
interests for RBS to be successful. and I would like to offer any assistance my office can
provide. Good luck with the bid.
Yours for Scotland (handwritten)
ALEX SALMOND
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/919/0103329.pdf
P67 I can see the logic in this in terms of an apparent punishment fitting the crime…but I am not sure if this is realistic and the best outcome given the likely damage to Celtic making a two horse a one horse race etc….. if Rangers go to into admin then a 3 season european ban is already quasi guaranteed ECL for Celtic which I would take….I dont think we should be scared of the so called mighty gers or desire such a handicap….I am not so sure there is actually now a sensible punishment that fits the crime but wouldnt destroy (if its not already destroyed) Scottish Football…I would imagine the short term euphoria of seeing them severly punished would wear off quite quickly and after two seasons I would envisage quite an empy Celtic Park except on ECL nights – I would rather beat that mob on an even keel than give them all the excuses in the world – get our own act together (which to be fair we have in recent weeks)..Actually a part of me wouldnt mind seeing Rangers go entirely to the wall for the institution they were/are but I cant decide if I would want this at the expense of Celtic.
Joe Filippis Haircut – It is a tell though. Huns drooling about mystery consortiums so they can pay for a £2m non-entity from the Spanish second division.
Thanks for the chuckle! :)
The Battered Bunnet – I was also going to suggest Lavender but he may be slightly younger than ol’ Davey. (thumbsup)
Philvis
That’s my fear, too.
If what you suggest comes to pass … well, it will be a sorry, sorry day …
One way or another, the SPL’s decision will be a defining moment.
FF
Tim Malone. Would the rule or the EPL be the same in the Spl ? the guy I was talking to seemed to be pretty certain they are going to sign a striker and thats how it would be funded as I said earlier I couldnt argue as I dont know the legalities of it.H.H.
‘I would like to offer any assistance my office can provide’
Aye, RBS might want to bring in a rule forbidding former ABN employees from aggressively crossing themselves.
Other than that, unsure as to how wee Eck and the pretendy parliament can help.
Joe Filippis Haircut –
I heard that all the huns were going to apply for crisis loans at the buroo, chip in together with a few million from Aluko and buy back wee barry and nacho novo.
ernie lynch – Much as I am not a fan of BF Alex Salmond or his party, I’m not sure that letter amounts to anything.
He wished Fred Goodwin and RBS good luck with a high-profile acquisition and made a token offer of help, at a time when most people were under the mistaken impression that Fred and RBS were the bees knees.
So what? (thumbsup)
DownForSam – my heart would be telling me no, don’t go, you’re only legitimising them.
My head would be saying that here is an opportunity to get in to the belly of the beast and get a close up look at the place, listen to what they are saying and perhaps, if you are lucky get to experience them dropping points and watching them go mental!
I was once offered a ticket for a glasgow derby by a rangers following aquaintance. Refused as I feared for my safety on such a day, but I have always been kinda curious to get in among them and see what it’s like.
If you do go make sure you have access to plenty hot water and soap afterwards. You’ll need it to help you feel clean again (Holy Water is best, but tap water will do!!)