Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson’s comments to yesterdays’ Herald are worthy of attention. During the summer, when United received a £1m bid from Rangers for David Goodwillie and Blackburn Rovers were hovering, Bank of Scotland, took an active part in the deliberations. Thompson told the Herald, “The bank wanted me to take £1.2m for him, but I said no to that. I had to stand up against the bank.”
Thompson more than doubled the money on offer for Goodwillie, allowing him to shave over £2m off their bank debt, but this exchange took place only a few months after the same bank told former Rangers chairman, Alastair Johnston, to accept the bid for the club from Motherwell born thousandaire Craig Whyte or the bank would demand same-day repayment of Rangers borrowings.
Bank of Scotland, part of Lloyds Banking Group (LBG), are significantly exposed to Scottish football and required a taxpayer bail-out two years ago, so although their interference in the running of clubs could seem overbearing, we shouldn’t be surprised at it. It’s business, and if you are employed at LBG with a responsibility to your taxpayer-shareholder, it’s necessary business.
Fortunately, Celtic are free from such interference, as are Rangers, thanks to their aforementioned benefactor, but if a liquidation event at a large club threatened income streams to the league I would be amazed if the Bank didn’t use the ‘Vote Newo FC into the SPL or repay your borrowings immediately’ line.
Stephen Thompson, who sits on the SPL board, might not have a choice on whether or not to vote a Newco FC into the SPL ahead of 30 Scottish Football League clubs, but he and his fellow board members will be able to set the tariff on any exceptional league entry to what would become a financially privileged football franchise.
12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.
This is measured, deliverable, is in the power of the SPL board to impose, and sets a minimum moral hazard to inhibit future mis-deeds.
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!!Bada Bing!! Kano 1000 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:07
PC67- I think it was worked out a few months back when Sky re-negociated the TV deal.
Damn good point.
I yearn for the day that we are not part of the “old firm” that we do not need to be part of dual sponsorship deals with them. We should be able to stand alone! however, like my political vision of an independant Scotland ( from earlier thread ) i think that day will be a long way off aswell.
PC67
Joe Filippis Haircut 12 January, 2012 at 13:11:
The rule goes all the way to the top SFA, UEFA, FIFA.
No way its going to happen. They could give the money to craig whyte for him to buy the player but the money would turn up in Monaco in a few months time without a new player for rangers.
!!Bada Bing!! Kano 1000 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:05
Was in Glasgow there, nipped in to Wenches for a pint.Davie Provan was in.
———————————–
Bada ,you’ll be auld enough ,what was name of disco ,up the hill
on Scott st corner of sauchiemihall?
Steadward67 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:08
It’s not a punishment and should not be viewed as such; it’s the points cost of direct entry to the SPL, on a direct point v point basis against the very minimum that would otherwise be required for entry from Div3 to the SPL.
It should be noted that the only club to ever get promoted through all three divisions in successive seasons done so with an accumulation of 251 points. The points accumulated by the runners-up from those three seasons was 214.
voguepunter says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:15
Maestros in my days, then it was Cotton Club I believe..
Paul67:
Absolutely disagree with the main thrust of the argument, which is that the banks will give Scottish football “no choice” but to allow Rangers NewCo into the SPL.
You’re suggesting that a financial institution, owned partly by the taxpayer, is support a decision which allows the taxpayer to be royally ripped off? No chance. You are suggesting a bank, in the interests of financial gain, is going to force on the SPL a decision which opens the doors wide to clubs dumping debt? No chance.
Someone (not accusing you here mate) is spinning a line, and it’s not even a very compelling one. If this is their argument, that the bank forced them into it, I don’t believe it for one second.
It’s a transparent sham.
I suspect the best we might get is between a 3 and 5 year points deduction. But when making a case it’s best to aim high and hope to get a bit more than you are after.
They are looking for a points deduction (probably for this season) and no more. We want something more long term. I hope we get it but will be happy to meet in the middle.
But do you know something? This is all about MONEY. and it is wrong.
voguepunter – Was it not the Cotton Club? (thumbsup)
Maestro’s
paulmcstaycsc
TET
Many thanks. Off to the range, as 1st game of the year at Dullater tomorrow.
Taking a fiver from yer mates is the best. (not the dosh,but the winning)
Giving it out, not so much. (some of em just love the dosh)
But the best part is beating the bandits. (just about all our group,bar me of course)
brimmer
Been following this discussion thread for months now and there seems to be some debate over exactly which body will make the deicsion on which league Newco will play in. Regardless of how this eventually plays out, for me and many fellow supporters, it is how the Celtic board are seen to behave that will shape whether or not I continue to follow this club – it is as serious as that.
Celtic has always stood up for what is right in Scottish football, fighting those who seek to unfairly punish us wherever it was necessary (the Irish flag and Jim Farry/Cadete being just two examples). I’ve been proud to be associated with an orgnaisation which was prepared to stand by what was morally the right thing to do. Therefore, if Celtic plc is seen to be complicit in any decision that allows Newco back in to the SPL it will have betrayed its own history and, more importantly, will have directly opposed the views of its own customers.
The Celtic Family is opposed to the re-admittance of Newco to the SPL, let those in a position of influence take notice.
Vogue
See: http://www.oldglasgowpubs.co.uk/cottonclub.html
FF
voguepunter
It was fun leaving that place on a cold icy night
So many rumours and stories and counter rumours and stories around Whyte and the pondland team the other story I was told that Whyte is only a front man for King and Whyte is the puppet and King pulls the strings.As I said the more you look into the murkier it gets the revenue will have to know there stuff to get to the bottom of it as me an ordinary Celtic supporter just cant get a handle on the situation.H.H.
or was that not Royal Exchange Square?
Down for Sam
Brother in law went twice last year,he doe’s not support
any team but I gave him pelters anyway.
twice he went ,twice they dropped points.
Will give him my best wishes next time……if it’s still open.
Signing off now ghuys, dont get much time to post and debate, but enjoyed giving my wee tupence worth this morning, hopefully back soon for more.
Happy birthday to awe naw and all the Kevins out there, wherever they may be.
HH
PC67
Folly Folly says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:20
That’s the place ,what was it called before that?
pedrocaravanachio67 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:04
Anybody else think that the doomsday scenario has already been worked out?
—————————————–
I don’t reckon Whytey thinks that far in advance. (He seems to enjoy a good old fire fight) I would imagine the SPL commitee have had private discussions on the matter. I don’t think that they’re fully aware of the depth of fan feeling or the backlash that will occur if they attempt to give Newco an easy passage.
12 seasons of penance, barred from European football for 3 years and their tainted trophies taken away would be a good compromise.
RobertTressell says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:18
Your last part is quite saddening in the truth of the matter.
Presumably, we all want a just punishment for the orcs, which means no less and no more than what is deserved, or at least a fair tariff for a newCo should they be gifted a slot in the SPL.
It’s a very poor indictment of the (presumed) stance of the SPL that not what’s just and right will be the main consideration, but what is best for their bank balances.
Paul67
I would have to disagree on Steven Thompson – very little of what that fella says is worth paying attention to.
I work in Banking, and the scenario he has outlined is unlikely to be what happened. I would speculate that it is more likely that United were either close to or in excess of their facilities, and the Bank wanted a reduction in the facilities, with Goodwillie being an obvious source of repayment, hence pressure to accept what appeared to be a good offer. To be fair to Thompson he managed to generate an auction in the player pushing the price up.
Rangers were in default to the Bank, Whyte was the only show in town, the Bank were right to push for the sale as they wanted out of the relationship. One would have to ask would they have been in the same mess had the same people been making the original decision to lend, but that is another story.
Not all our problems are caused by the banking system.
Sadly Celtic are free from banking interference, however we do not use that to our advantage. In excess of £12m undrawn facilities at the Bank, at extremely low rates, and £6m sitting in cash, per our last accounts show that guys like Diawara or Rhodes are not out of our budget, and indeed may generate a better return on our assets than money sitting in the Bank.
Says it on the tin, Vogue: ‘Once known as Maestros now called CCA patio bar’.
starry plough says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:17
Bada.
Maestro’s ? how could I forget that name?
cheers mhen.
The Spirit of Arthur Lee says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:21
Even funnier trying to get up that hill on an icy night only to be told by the fat bouncer “Don’t bother coming up the stairs Pal!!”
Happy daze…
DownForSam says:
12 January, 2012 at 12:52
I went once -not Celts game – they were playing Hamilton Accies and Mel Sterland’s first game..Waddel Suite they called it. It was actually a pokey wee hole under the stairs -(Harry Potter would have been outraged;-)
Anyway -they make an immediate assumption (maybe not the right word..) that everyone is a berr. That makes the oul’ dinner table chit chat very interesting, especially when you know there are at least another 2 Tims in the group.. who are all agreed to ‘play the game’
a constant stream of the wee middle manager/foreman types full of self-importance, puffing up and regailing us with tales of how timmy gets kept in his place blah, blah, blah..,by dessert it was clear that a few had sussed all was not as it seemed and there were some uncomfortable silences as the less perceptive continued with their litany of employment law carnage -or case studies as we prefer to call them
all revealed after a few hours of rancid bile, when Big Tel the captain appeared after the game and asked our group if we “want anything signed” …
“eh our team are playing at Hertz today..but thanks anyway”
stunned silence, then “whit there ur 3 of them”
You may ask why we went along in the first place ..remember this was not long after Adrian Sprott inspired Accies had dumped them out the cup..we could not resist the slight chance that lightning might strike twice
I would not go back there under any circumstances-Tho’ you may just want to experience it yersel ..just once mind ;-)
An Dun abu
M
ps Mel Sterland went on to manage Stalybridge Celtic and appeared in the film ‘When Saturday Comes’
Starry,Vogue,Bada..
oh oh oh. Maestro’s was my all time fav. Long coat,spikey hair & eye liner.
Joy Division,Depeche,The Minds,Gen X,Bauhaus,Pete Shelley etc etc
I miss it all. Yep even the eye liner, it was so easy to start a conversation wi the burds.
‘so eh,whit kind dae u use darlin?’ Another notch on the brimmer bhoys bed.
Easy times.. (far away look in my eyes)
brimmer
To ensure they support Scottish Football I would insist they have a duty to only buy from Scotland for a defined period. Thus ensuring their generated money stays in
Scotland.
I saw Davie Provan pull Lesley Judd in Night Moves.
The SPL’s decision (when it is needed) is a simple one – follow the rules and ‘maintain’ integrity of Scottish Football.
Anything else, other than a Newco being punted to Div 3 must be highlighted to the world and exposed for the sham that it is.
Tombola
Folly Folly says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:25
Sorry mate ,missed that bit,cheers.
Paul67,
That sounds fair to me, and as a Celtic fan it sounds great. I can’t see anything like that happening.
My prediction would be one single 10point deduction (at a suitable time – for example in April if Celtic are ten points clear) and start afresh next season. Who knows what state the club or team would be in. I hope I’m wrong but I can foresee it. We will be hearing ‘it’s for the good of Scottish football’ ‘Celtic and the spl need rangers’ ‘get on with it’ etc.
I do hope I’m wrong of course
There is no doubt in my mind that Newco will get a points penalty, and it will be much lower than they deserve, but one thing is for certain: they will appeal the decision immediately.
R*ngers Football Club – receiving penalties for 140 years.
brimmer ‘kano 1000’ says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:26
Glory days Brimmer, would that have been the Gang Hut with all that music or was there a Sunday night do as well, all a bit blurry noo!! We surely crossed paths at the bar back then..
Happy Birthday Mate..
A Maestro’s classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HwmO_GZfzI
Away to get Mrs B’s eye gear
brimmer
Half Time Tombola says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:27
Here here.
Completely agree.
Celtic must be ready for drastic action if NewCo gets accepted with open arms.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:17
Paul67:
‘Someone (not accusing you here mate) is spinning a line, and it’s not even a very compelling one.’
There are a number of lines being spun at the moment.
The curious thing is that they all lead to the same end: a newco huns straight into the SPL.
If that’s what happens it will be a sad outcome, though on the upside I suppose I’ve had a good run as a supporter, old enough to remember Lisbon and lucky enough to have been in Seville. Travelling down to England maybe once a month as time and finances permit to watch an EPL game won’t be the same, but it’s what I’ll be doing.
Paul67,
You wouldn’t be lulling our neighbours from hell into a false sense of security, would you?? :-)
pabloh_AKA_NEIL LENNON says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:29
They get a 10pt penalty for each insolvency event. This is applicable whenever the event occurs.
Above that, they will receive a 10pt penalty at the start of any season(s) where they are still undergoing an insolvency event, i.e. where they are still in administration.