Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson’s comments to yesterdays’ Herald are worthy of attention. During the summer, when United received a £1m bid from Rangers for David Goodwillie and Blackburn Rovers were hovering, Bank of Scotland, took an active part in the deliberations. Thompson told the Herald, “The bank wanted me to take £1.2m for him, but I said no to that. I had to stand up against the bank.”
Thompson more than doubled the money on offer for Goodwillie, allowing him to shave over £2m off their bank debt, but this exchange took place only a few months after the same bank told former Rangers chairman, Alastair Johnston, to accept the bid for the club from Motherwell born thousandaire Craig Whyte or the bank would demand same-day repayment of Rangers borrowings.
Bank of Scotland, part of Lloyds Banking Group (LBG), are significantly exposed to Scottish football and required a taxpayer bail-out two years ago, so although their interference in the running of clubs could seem overbearing, we shouldn’t be surprised at it. It’s business, and if you are employed at LBG with a responsibility to your taxpayer-shareholder, it’s necessary business.
Fortunately, Celtic are free from such interference, as are Rangers, thanks to their aforementioned benefactor, but if a liquidation event at a large club threatened income streams to the league I would be amazed if the Bank didn’t use the ‘Vote Newo FC into the SPL or repay your borrowings immediately’ line.
Stephen Thompson, who sits on the SPL board, might not have a choice on whether or not to vote a Newco FC into the SPL ahead of 30 Scottish Football League clubs, but he and his fellow board members will be able to set the tariff on any exceptional league entry to what would become a financially privileged football franchise.
12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.
This is measured, deliverable, is in the power of the SPL board to impose, and sets a minimum moral hazard to inhibit future mis-deeds.
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folly folly- Voguepunter is an auld Dennistoun Palais mhan himself…….
Some chancer stole my trendy Donkey jacket out the Cotton Club in 1991
Paul67
Agree that the punishment should fit the crime – and what you propose sounds reasonable to any reasonable minded person. However we live in Scotland. Fairness, justice, openness are just words.
Starry Plough.
Fri Sat nights were just outstanding. Burds dressed like Souxsie sioux, Blondie, kim Wilde etc.
Oh I loved them. Goddamn it when it changed to the Cotton Club.
Burds dressed like Sheena Easton and Boy George. Tut.
We def shared the same bar at some point old bean
brimmer
Bourne
Taller – Insteps for your shoes
Darker – tell risque jokes about midget Mexican wrestlers
Handsomer – Try, always, to look as if you’re pondering a particularly difficult crossword clue – like you’re concentrating but not worrying or perplexed. Practice in mirror if unsure. Try to picture Dick Byrne figuring out how to dodge a round…
U
voguepunter, as long as the solution is in line with the benefits accrued.
Folly Folly, I see very little political fall-out.
philvisreturns… then he can apply to the SFL.
mickthetic, excellent, thanks. Still waiting to see the print copy.
The Bhoy from the Village, playing brinksman with the survival of Celtic in the hands of other SPL clubs is not a game I would recommend. Unfortunately, the bank can threaten to pull the plug from clubs if they vote against Newco but no one but Celtic can threaten them if they look like walking, in which case the bank would continue to nurse their accounts back to health.
Also, where would we go in the space of a few months? No league would be able to accept us, apart, perhaps, from the SPL Third Division. It would be seen as a self-defeating empty threat.
Honest Mistake, the bank is not acting in the interests of Rangers, so has no interest in the length or severity of points penalty. Remember, the first club they threatened last year was Rangers. If anything, it would suit the bank for Rangers penalty to be longer as their clients would stand to earn more prize money.
RogueLeader , aye, true.
Bawsman, Battered Bunnet, should be but it’s not going to happen. Ask Alastair Johnston or Stephen Thompson.
saltires en sevilla, aye, indeed.
St Martin’s Bhoy, happy to lose it but the words from Thompson yesterday paint a picture of how clubs in debt are being handled. Maybe if they sell circa £4m talent each this month things will change……
McNair is the greatest, that works for me.
ernie lynch, I fail to see how voting like this is against their duties as SPL directors. In fact, I can foresee an alternative argument. Directors fiduciary duties are towards shareholders, most of whom are in the same financial situation as Dundee United.
MWD, indeed.
EXILED TIM, could we manage to avoid playing Her Majesty for 12 years and Rangers see if Rangers resign? Would rather they went out of existence than we did.
Steadward67, alas, I am already resigned to a sparsely populated Celtic Park in future. Really enjoyed the crowd on 28 December but thousands will not be back on Saturday.
James Forrest, I fail to see who the bank insisting Rangers are voted back into the SPL instead of the SFL has any negative bearing on tax revenues. You might be right, but from what Johnston and Thompson have said recently, I expect the bank to
cardiffbhoy, interesting comment. Surprised too as I know a number of businesses in overdraft who have monthy coversaations with their bank when the continuation of the facility is assessed.
If this is not happening, the banks are getting a very unfair press these days. Are you in commercial lending? Might be able to put some business your way. Email me if you are.
pabloh_AKA, let’s hope you are wrong.
oisin71, not quite.
The Idiot, aye.
Brimmer
I was a member of Dullater for a few years, I wonder if l know you?
Mtt
Well, we’re on new ground, bhoys.
We might as well thrash out all the contingencies. When the lights go out in Govan there will be time for Celtic to speak up and formulate a response. The club knows what the support thinks. In my view, there’s no point in worrying about it. Celtic will respond, and we as a support will react to that response.
For now, putting the ball in the back of the net as many times as humanly possible should be the club’s main concern.
I dont think HBOS would relish the prospect of other SPL clubs following Ragers newco lead and wiping off all those debts to HBOS
I doubt HBOS are stupid enough to force a vote on ragers newco into the spl
saltires en sevilla says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:26
DownForSam says:
12 January, 2012 at 12:52
A friend of a friend who is a good Tim and big charity supporter went to a corporate day once at Snake Mountain, as his customer was too big to continually refuse. A former R*ngers player and director came into the room prior to kick off (in the days when he was merely a match day host and not a director) to hand out the team sheets, and unless this guy is a liar (which I sincerely doubt) he swore that the former player/director said not to worry as today’s referee was a member of lodge 1690 or whatever. Call me paranoid but I trust my friend completely.
Personally I wouldn’t trust myself anywhere in the R*ngers end at Snake Mountain. The temptation to say GIRFUY would be too much if we scored, even if I had a suit on.
Paul67 – how would such interference from a government owned bank sit with FIFA’s insistence of a “hands off or else” approach from political meddling into all matters football?
Roseland was the place, I think it became Night Moves.
I was at the opening night of Ultratech, now that was special at the time, lasted cool for about 3 months.
Paul67 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:39
‘I fail to see how voting like this is against their duties as SPL directors. In fact, I can foresee an alternative argument. Directors fiduciary duties are towards shareholders, most of whom are in the same financial situation as Dundee United.’
You are suggesting that directors of the SPL might be influenced in how they vote as directors of the SPL by financial pressure exerted on their own clubs by their bankers.
That’s no different to them being influenced by brown envelopes stuffed with readies.
Anyone else go to the Radio Clyde roadshow on a Sunday night at the County Inn Cumslang
Ah Maestros. Saturday nights 1981-1986, start at the Rock Garden, up to Hurricanes then onto Maestros. Was never the same when it became the Cotton Club, the black hole became a poncy 80s club.
Paul67 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:39
The Bhoy from the Village, playing brinksman with the survival of Celtic in the hands of other SPL clubs is not a game I would recommend. Unfortunately, the bank can threaten to pull the plug from clubs if they vote against Newco but no one but Celtic can threaten them if they look like walking, in which case the bank would continue to nurse their accounts back to health.
Also, where would we go in the space of a few months? No league would be able to accept us, apart, perhaps, from the SPL Third Division. It would be seen as a self-defeating empty threat.
——————————————————————————————————
I believe that there is a notice period attached to resignation, that notice period would allow us to find an alternative league. Unfortunately we would still be playing the the SPL during that period however I would be willing to countenance that scenario in the knowledge that it was temporary
It is neither self defeaing nor empty if we carry it out
In addition your comment on sparsley populated Celtic park is unfortunately true, however if the Celtic Board vote with Newco you can shut 3 of the 4 stands
Sir Paul
jist in fae the jiggin’.
Kiddo.. Dinna tell me that you are Scrared of the G.A.
As weel?
Heck…
Ah wullnae turn a Hair..if .. The Hateful Wans… should they go intae the Admin .. etc..
Thingymajig..
They..
wull be resurrected as a “NewCo”.
Ready,tae…
Carry oan , jist as before.. as Oor Main Rivals ..in the Scottish Premier…
Bring ’em oan.. we wull deal wi’ that supposition, when it occurs..
Awe You ,worriers,oot there..
Gie yersel a Shake..
If it happens..it.. weel.. Happens..
Meanwhile, back at the Ranch..
We need a new Prolific Striker.
Wull we get wan?
Kojo
mickthetic
On my 4th year now. Play in a group of 9-12 every Sat morning (weather permitting and greens on) on the Antonine. A few of the boys came frm Campsie to join and I was a member of Torrance House in EK.
We’re usually the loudest in the clubhouse. My friends would say that was me tbh. :0
brimmer
Mountain_Bhoy is Neil Lennon says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:42
‘I dont think HBOS would relish the prospect of other SPL clubs following Ragers newco lead and wiping off all those debts to HBOS’
I’m not sure how much unsecured debt the banks have to SPL clubs.
Paul67
Does that mean that, if the huns re-enter the SPL at the behest of the banks and are docked points, those same banks may pressurise SPL clubs to throw games against them should it mean they enjd up in the bottom 6, thereby compromising the 4 ‘old firm’ games a season Sky TV package?
At what point will sporting integrity have any influence?
What happens if this administartion event does not happen till after the season ends? Would the deduction be retrospective or apply in the following season?
To me this will drag on due to appeal procedures etc
Kittoch says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:47
Was there with my good lady every week,magic.
Brimmer
I left the season before you joined, long story.
I am now a member of Westerwood, good tough layout if a tad damp under foot.
Enjoy Sir, hope you have a billy goat to pull your clubs tomorrow.
Mtt
The issue outside of what penalty Rangers should face, is that everyone seems to believe that it is acceptable for Rangers to do this liquidation then re-emergence at the expense of £50m of public funds and who knows how many unpaid small businesses. The BBC recently reported that the average cost to build a 1300 pupil inner city secondary school is £25m. The press etc. in this country seem to think defaulting on £50m of taxpayers money is acceptable because its Rangers, where are the politicians in all this??
Uly
I can do these things, I can I can.
* rolls eyes *
For me the only right a proper route is for NewCo to start at the bottom and work it’s way up. No other punishment. After all whatever the links it’s not liable for the profligacy of the dead club.
As I’ve said before, if anything I see the formation of NewCo as the likely catalyst for the creation with SPL1 and SPL2 with NewCo getting into SPL2. That won’t be right either.
Start at the bottom is the only fair way for me.
If (and I hope they wouldn’t) our attendances dropped without Rangers involvement in the league, I’m afraid it would be an indication of us having more OF supporters than we would like.
Kittoch says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:46
Roseland was the place, I think it became Night Moves.
I was at the opening night of Ultratech, now that was special at the time, lasted cool for about 3 months.
———————————————–
I once bought this girl from Easterhouse a cider & babycham in Ultratech. Nearly bankrupted me. I was on a YOP scheme at the time. I was 5p short but they’d already poured it.
Nothing for myself and she drank it in about 9 seconds then was eyeballing me for another.
Just looked away from her and pretended to be too interested in the music, in the hope she’d buy me a drink.
When i turned round she’d f####d off. I Walked home to Dennistoun in a downpour.
I’ve been afraid of burds in blue ra-ra skirts ever since..
brimmer
Just off the phone to the Ole Sea World, they said …………
“this call may recorded for training Porpoises”
*Jacket*
Paul, simple yes or no please.
Were you at Celtic Park today and did you see a guy come through the tunnel with one of the Celtic PR team and stand trackside holding aloft a Celtic scarf getting his photo taken?
Just a yes or no please, I am not expecting anything else.
mickthetic
Yes it can be a trek alright.
Played with Hector Nicol and Stephen Hendry in a park’s of Hamilton day out at Westerwood when the bold Hector made his famous golf remark.
Hendry’s a decent golfer,but with the personality of his fav teams old manager.
brimmer
In a room a few weeks hence
Celtic SPL representative:
So gentleman, it looks like we have two proposals before us in relation to the application before us to join the league. Firstly, a proposal that would involve a 25 point deduction this season and automatic entry for the applicant and a second which involves a 25 point deduction for next season and a place in division 3 of football.
I know that some of you have been concerned to maximise the revenue to the league and it’s clubs and in particular maintain the current TV contract with Sky/ESPN and there seems to be some support for the notion that the first proposal would maximise that benefit to our members. We have now thoroughly discussed the merits and disadvantages of both propositions.
As we move to vote, I wanted to ensure that everyone round this table is fully aware of the implications of the selection, especially in relation to finance. Prior to this meeting the Celtic Board concluded their views and provided me instruction. I have here two sealed envelopes. The first is a letter of resignation from the SPL and the second is a letter of resignation from the SFA. I am asked to inform you that if the first proposition is successful these letters are to be immediately delivered to Neil Doncaster and Stuart Regan on the basis that the competition being run lacks integrity and that Celtic FC cannot and will not be a party to that.
It is unfortunate that such a scenario would still result in the loss of the current TV deal which the first proposition is designed to protect. Nothing would delight me more than to be able to destroy both these envelopes following this meeting rather than have then issued.
Right gentlemen; to the vote.
whyte, sitting in ketterings sea food restaraunt on cannon st, looks a wee bit stressed, ginger hair turning grey
Kayal33 says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:48
We must have definitely shared a bar or two or three or four!!
For NewCo “Rangers” to be formed then OldCo Rangers are liquidated. Gone. No more. Hail, hail to that!
But what basis (legal, sporting precedent etc) is their for penalising NewCo “Rangers” for the crimes of OldCo Rangers? If NewCo “Rangers” can be held to account for the crimes of OldCo Rangers then such an obvious Phoenix might also be consisdered liable for any outstanding debts of OldCo Rangers?
Seems to me that any NewCo “Rangers” is exactly that and starts with a clean record and zero history. NewCo “Rangers” must apply to join the SFA/SFL/SPL. Any such application may be looked at favourably. NewCo “Rangers” should start at the bottom of current SFL Division 3. Any fast-tracking for NewCo “Rangers” compromises the integrity of the SFA/SFL/SPL. Whether the SFA/SFL/SPL would recognise and adhere to the principles of sporting integrity in such a scenario remains to be seen. I trust UEFA will be watching closely. NewCo “Rangers” will not be eligible to participate in UEFA competions for at least 3 seasons.
But just how many NewCo “Rangers” might be formed – all claiming to own the spirit and traditions of a disgraced OldCo Rangers?
Chris
Why wasn’t the Rangers Tax Issues picked up earlier?
What initially brought in to light?
12 years is a long time.
row z \o/ (O) Mississippi Burnin Nearer Home says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:59
Perfect!!
celticinthesun – remember when Ibrox was raided, we all laughed only to be told “jog on Timmy, no wrong doing at Digity FC”? They took the computers didn’t they….
bournesouprecipe says:
12 January, 2012 at 13:57
fantastic!
texted that to a couple of folk who will shortly be giving me pelters.