Apologies to all who, like me, tired of the circular ‘songs debate’ on CQN many years ago. Back in 2011, when Celtic had a similar action from Uefa to defend as they now face, I predicted a slow train wreck:
“The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
“I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
“Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.”
A few weeks later I wrote:
“Singing Flower of Scotland will (correctly) never be criminalised but you can expect charges to be brought for expressing similar sentiment. Legally, this sounds like a reach by the SNP government, but it’s likely to be a few young football fans who carry the responsibility of establishing how the judiciary view this matter.
“While Celtic will never condone IRA chanting (or, apparently, try to mitigate it as inconsequential, as others did before them with illegal and prejudicial chanting) they have a responsibility to ensure positive parts of our Irish tradition, including the national anthem, the flag and other symbols of the club’s rich and diverse culture are defended.”
Since then:
Uefa and the SPL have reprimanded Celtic.
Efforts have been made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which mostly fail.
Despite pleas from Neil Lennon, or earlier from Jock Stein, some insist on signing political songs. As Jock and Neil were ignored it remains an act of vanity for lesser mortals to try to convince others to desist.
Charges have been brought for expressing sentiment similar to that in Flower of Scotland.
Celtic have not, should not and cannot try to mitigate IRA chanting or banners as inconsequential. It is not inconsequential, Jock Stein knew it a long time before the SNP government. Fill your boots on debating why it has consequences below, it’s a huge intellectual topic, you’ll enjoy it, then you’ll get bored of it and move on.
If you want the opportunity to have a Debating Society on this, there is space on the comments section, knock yourself out. I’ve been through the songs debate often enough to know some of our community feel it is incumbent upon them to sing IRA songs at football games. Pointing out the words of Jock Stein, or the inevitable conclusion to this singing, or how things have developed in Ireland, will not change this perspective.
That’s the thing about slow train wrecks, nothing can stop them. It’s more productive to plan on how to deal with the aftermath.
Congratulations to the Bucketeers who raised over £26k for the costs of mounting an appropriate legal defence to the Dam Square five. This is a stunning amount of money raised, which demonstrates the strength of feeling among the support.
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CQN Annual, get it while it’s hot:
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OK, so after 2 solid hours and engaging 4 expensive subcontractors from various industries and ethnicity I have worked out the answer to The Battered Bunnet’s conundrum wrapped in a mystery, shrouded in a jar. I needed a slide rule, new software, 3 paracetamol and a brisk walk but I’ve got it and transposed the findings onto a digitally printed 4D Venn Diagram. So simple on the end. How do I post it up on CQN?
Mr Johnny Clash – once again you demonstrate how the cultural zeitgeist revolves around you.
I did not hear that show, but if that’s the kind of treat that a ‘Scottish Broadcasting Corporation’ could bring then roll on independence.
“Uke, I am your father”
Obi wan Kanobi two CSC
i would be very upset if Gordon Duffield Smith claimed to have played on ‘Radar Love’.
I see Ukelele and other assorted love songs, free on ITunes – no strings attached.
Wee Ruth Davidson tells me that with the Scottish Broadcasting Corporation we’ll no longer be able to watch Doctor Who.
That’ll be a big fat YES then.
Paul McCartney and Pete Best have not been in the same room since that fateful day in 1962 when Pete was fired from the Beatles….and Paul wasn’t there anyway……..I think there might have been a group from Hartlepool featuring Pete McCartney and Paul Best……or maybe Gordon Smith is fibbing big time….or that JohnnyClash made the whole thing up.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-2514682/Co-op-Bank-slammed-cheap-loans-Celtic-Football-Club.html#ixzz2lvgCRAlk
Tory MP with the help of a unionist tory rag have a pop at Celtic’s bankers
Auldheid
What if all huskies are pulling together in the wrong direction?
MWD
Johnny Clash,
maybe the GB could sing this and keep everyone happy
hope link works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=decGrmMcbHY
blantyrekev
15:47 on28 November, 2013
Glad you have decided not to glamourise TBBs hallucinagenic drug dabbling ;-)
PeterGreenWoodSydBarretCSC
ernie lynch
15.14 November 28th
He fought in the first war as a conscientious objector as a medic…Any man who can face people after doing that ain’t the clown as you so eloquently allude to. Strangely you sound like the Hun sitting opposite me at work. Anyone who you see as opposite to your views is an arsehole. What about John Maclean then? Like MacDiarmid a supporter of Irish Independence? Was he also that part of the human body you obviously contemplate so much about?
Was Hugh wrong about Ireland as well as the USSR?
Your not getting my point about GB – they should let the politicians do the talking and keep out or football – the only allies they have is across the city in Castle Greyskull
Kogo,
Cannot agree more, the only midfielder who had the ability to make a telling pass was Ki and he is gone. Id like to know what your take on the strikers we have at present are.
Auldheid
Extreme examples
Hitler & Nazi Germany
Rangers Support and David Murray
A level of check & balance is required. Without a little fragmentation of opinion disaster is always liikely to strike.
I much prefer the way the Celtic support is to any other on this planet that I am aware of.
MWD
Cadizzy
You misunderstand. Macca and Pete hung out with Duffield separately. Although, apparently on one occasion, round at Duffield’s gaff, Mark Lawrenson asked Pete, “So do you still see much of the rest of the band…”.
Mr Johnny Clash- we will when Alastair McCoist is revealed as the new Doctor.
The Gregg’s steak bake is ‘much, much bigger on the inside’.
Greenwood …huh ? These pink panther spangles are pretty strong but it is a football blog after all …how did that credo in ????
PeterGREENcsc
Is acknowledging Israel as a sovereign state a political statement ?
Johnny Clash
Was driving home from work whilst Duffield was regaling the pre-match intelligentsia of Off The Ball, with his weighty name-dropping.
Had to switch it off when ventured into the old club / new club debate. Stating that no club is set up as a business, so therefore the club is the same and it’s the businesses and their owners that are at fault (I’m paraphrasing here) and before you know it he plumps for it all being Craig Whyte’s fault.
Leaving a gaping chasm which any journo would have filled with the question – so is it all right for clubs to drop any and all debt and start again and claim to be the same club?
But no, let’s get back to Paul McCartney…
U
KoJo my old pal,
So what you are saying is that Neil likes middies in his likeness so to speak, yeah? Wonder if he sat then in absolute wonderment at the likes of my here, Lubo! Surely he saw thathis game was progressive where his own game, as good as it was, was anything but!.
Yeah we URGENTLY need a Lubo
Hail Hail
KINGLuBO
DBBIA @ 15 51.
Duffield wrote the lyrics ————-
” I ‘ve been driving all night, my hands wet on the wheel.
There’s a voice in my head that drives my heel.
It’s my parents calling , saying they need me “
Credo=creep
Ok nighty night guys
HH
here should be Hero,oops
KINGLuBO
Moonbeams WD. Kano 1000 \o/ Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. Champions. C’mon Wee Oscar.
16:00 on
28 November, 2013
Auldheid
Extreme examples
Hitler & Nazi Germany
Rangers Support and David Murray
A level of check & balance is required. Without a little fragmentation of opinion disaster is always liikely to strike.
I much prefer the way the Celtic support is to any other on this planet that I am aware of.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Of course checks and balances are required.
That is the problem. No checks and little sign of balance.
“If you didn’t see the Beatles at the ole Cavern Club with Pete Best, you haven’t seen the Beatles”
Pete Best
KINGLUBO,
Moravcik was one of the best midfielders to wear the hoops. Shame he came to us as late in his carrer as he did.
What’s this about Duffield being in a tribute band called the EBTles?
16.13
only 17 minutes until I’m shifting gears
Ole Brenda Lee is coming on strong though….must be my aftershave
One well-written point of view: http://drumbhoy.wordpress.com/and-god-save-ireland-was-sung/ …
from twitter
Anyone interested in football?
David Peter Deans
16:09 on 28 November, 2013
“KINGLUBO,
Moravcik was one of the best midfielders to wear the hoops. Shame he came to us as late in his carrer as he did.”
I expect that if he had joioned us sooner, he would not have stayed with us for any longer than he did since the EPL would have seen how good he was and made us an offer we couldn’t refuse (not in a Michael Corleone way)
David Peter Deans
Hiya, Pally..
Ah am very Pleased tae Meetya..
Yep.. Naka, Had the Technique, which we presently Lack..
He wiz a Wan Affer, aweright..
Glad ye pointed that oot.. pal.
Whit dae Ah think of oor Present Coterie of Strikers..???
Well. Here it is. in Brief..which is No Like ..Me…
But…
Pukki.. Ah Do Declare… That… He is Far too Gentle n… Lightweight ,fur the S.P.L.. He wulnae Mak It. as a Striker.
Stokesy.. He is The Best Auld Fashioned Inside Left , that we Hiv..
But.. He is No A Natural Striker.. which is whit Ah am after.
Sammi.. He is Not an Enigma.. He is A Natural.. Left Winger..and he kin Mak a Telling Pass…which is Good.. But, Neil, keeps oan Pitting him in the Middle.. where his talents are smothered.. Neil, Acts like that Guy ..tae whom Einstein Referred..when he said..
“The Definition of Insanity.. Is tae Kee[ Daein’ the same Thing. over and over.. and tae actually Expect.. A DIFFERENT RESULT’
and that is whit Neil Is Daeing .. when He keeps oan Pitting Sammi, in the… Lonely Linwood Striking Role..
It’s jis Plain.. Nuts!
Amido.. Ah Likey.. Aloater..
He his Everything in his Make Up thate Kojo Craves in a Celtic Striker..
He is Big..he is Strong..and He Kin be a Hard Man tae Dispossess, in a Physical Confronto..
Bangura..?
A wid Persevere wi him.. He is Another Guy, whom Ah could Grow tae Luv..
He Has Physical Presence.. which Ah Simply INSIST..is a Must fur a Celtic Striker..
Big John .His It.. Sutton , Also..
Henrik.. Na.. but ,he wiz so Will of the Wisp. Talented, that he Didnae Need it..
there is Only wan Henrik Born.. every. Fifty Years.and the Next wan.. is still.. a few Years away..
So ..there ye hiv it Pal.. of Kojo ‘s Opinion of Oor Present Strike Force… for whit it is worth..
which is worth aboot.. Two Cents.. and a Bent Curdy.
Kojo
Still,Laughin
derbyshirebhoy
Only as a means to balance the books.. It would appear
KDS is the site if its only football chat, they ban people for raising issues like politics or in fact anything that strays from football.
“It’s a half-assed Ford and I’m shifing gears”
from a site about misheard lyrics…called Kiss This Guy…naturally
Twitter
Celebrate the heroism of Bobby Sands (MP) at Celtic Park – Illegal
Celebrate the death of Bobby Sands (MP) at Ibrox – Legal
Right serious ? Why is PL quick to condemn fans who sing political songs but not quick to comment on the corruption in our game with our governing body ?
hen1rik
16:26 on
28 November, 2013
Twitter
Perhaps substituting acceptable for legal and illegal would have better made the point.