We spoke about Stale Solbakken here as an option during one of our recent management vacancies. At the time he was manager of Copenhagen, who were playing monopoly with the Danish game and had become the first regular Champions League competitor from that country. Yesterday he was sacked as manager of Wolves, who are 18th in the second tier of English football.
Mick McCarthy led Wolves to promotion into the FA Premier League in 2009 but was sacked in February after slipping into a relegation place. The club were relegated and Solbakken was appointed in July. Solbakken, still only 44, won five leagues in six seasons at Copenhagen and competed well with a tiny budget in the Champions League. He is a good manager but his failure at Wolves presents more evidence that the fabled guru football manager doesn’t exist.
Managers are cogs in a management system which involves players, scouts, technical experts, coaches, youth development staff and administrators. If a club gets all the other components right, as Copenhagen unquestionably did, the guy with ultimate control over team matters will appear to over-perform. Conversely, if you have a genuinely talented manager but he doesn’t work with a crucial part of the football structure, progress will stall. Martin O’Neill taught us more about football tactics in his first season than we had learned in the previous 20 years, but he was not known to sign players he hadn’t identified when playing against his teams.
Wolves chance of recruiting a manager as good as Mick McCarthy is slight. They could do worse than look at how Celtic stemmed the flow of failure by taking a guy who was already working with the scouts, coaches, technical experts, youth development staff and administrators. Don’t look for a guru, get the system right and find someone who will work within it.
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SFTB – my point was that I was completely uninspired by the short list for replacing WGS. I assumed they were on the list as we were keeping a tight reign on finances, but plenty of managers/coaches were available throughout Europe used to working on budgets way below Celtics.
Aw Naw – I’m not sure which bits of our history you think I’ve re-written, but I’m more concerned about where we go from here. I think most of us want to see the club at the upper echelons of European football, but I think that would just be the start of the battles for the hearts & minds of the Celtic support.
My ultimate aim is to see our club win the big one again in my lifetime, but at what cost to our core beliefs and traditions? How bad do we want it?!
T4
See someone has been at the Mladen Petric wiki already…
Neil Lennon is by no means a lesser coach as inferred above? Lenny would have the courage to play Moravcik in an away Champions League game. MON would have got shot of Sammy before he would even been put on his bench for theose Champions league away games.
I agree that we should steer clear of the Guru but what was Stein? What is Alex Ferguson? Where they the system or did they design the system? Ferguson could easily have been sacked in the early years at Manchester United. Stein climbed the mountain early, skirted the summit then wound up in the foothills. Did Stein take advantage of the ripeness of Celtic at that time? Where would Ferguson have gone if Man U had sacked him?
Neil Lennon has not reached the heights of either at this point in time. Kilmarnock no doubt was a moment in time for him. I don’t think Neil designed the current system. His early signing targets tell you that. I do though think Neil has massive courage in his day to day life and in his team management. He has been shown that the current purchasing policy works.
i started with Mladen Petric. He could be a dud, he could be another Stark or Moravcik. I think Lenny will get the best from him.
Awe Naw
Let us both take off our Celtic Paranoia hats for a minute. It is easy for us to believe every bit of evidence that we put down in front of each other that the refs and the SFA are all Masons. However, you would have a devil of a job proving that to any so-called neutral body.
For the ref’s efforts on the field, it has always been the manager’s (and player’s) job to try and highlight and influence these. For any evidence of biased organisation at administrative level, that would be the Board’s sphere. They made a few half-hearted sallies into those waters, such as John Reid’s “without fear or favour” statement but these were infrequent, uncoordinated and unsustained, and for that the Board are worthy of criticism.
When Bob Kelly stood up against the Tricolour Ban, we were being attacked directly with naked sectarianism from our governing body, so he felt it was appropriate to be direct back at them, for one of the few times he chose to be so.
We were not being attacked directly by the SFA in the past decade, but indirectly, via placemen and by sins of omission rather than commission. Our arguments would have been harder to frame and certainly, would have garnered little in the way of sympathy or influence, from an audience who considees us as one half of a two cheeked erse.
My Dear weegreenman….
Wheeeesht….!!!!
It has been widely acknowledged that a large Chinese Fleet ,under the command of Admiral Zheng(a eunuch)…..
Sailed from China in the early 1400s…
On the first of several missions to explore the World….
And to investigate whether other cultures….
Had anything of value….
That would be of benefit…
To the Kingdom At The Centre Of The World….
They set up trading missions along the Indian Sub-Continent….notably at Calicot(later Calcutta)…
And also along the African Coastline…
Particularly the eastern seaboard…..
More dubious are the claims that they sailed northwards …entering the Mediterranean…..
However,there is strong evidence that they did land and trade along the west coast of the Americas…..
And genetic studies give weight to the suggestion that they settled communities
At various points on the continent…
And introduced certain vegetables and domestic fowl…
Which were not native to the Americas…
The non-native plants and fowl could have introduced new animal diseases to the Americas…
(Just as the mules brought to Sub-Saharan Africa by Arab Slavers….
Introduced Rinderpest which devastated the cattle herds of the native pastoralists
And caused even more misery and starvation)
Smallpox and measles could well have been brought to the Americas by the Chinese….
Because their expeditionary fleets were manned by thousands of sailors,soldiers,and diplomats….and their wives and CHILDREN…
In ships which were ten to twenty times larger than European ships of that era..
So it would be much more likely that they would be the source for the epidemics…
Additionally,by the time that Columbas reached the Americas….
There is evidence that the epidemics had already been sweeping the continent
For a couple of decades…
The early European expeditions did not include young children….
Which would have been the prime source of the epidemic viruses..
(European adults would have had the viral infections…in their YOUTH…and if they survived..thereafter had lifelong immunity to smallpox and measles….
And could not have passed these diseases on to the Native Americans…..
Pinkety…?
Pfayr
Chicken and egg situation. TM wouldn’t have had to take anything on the chin if we played on an even surface. Nosurname would’ve been sacked .
TTTT
Paul67 has rewritten in his leader not you so dont get me wrong. Lenny was an after thought even after he had landed in their lap they were still not convinced.
I said the exact same as you last night.
Charity begins at home and is is just not about putting your hand in your pocket. A fixation this board has.
I have to say I dont like them representing me never mind Celtic.
HH
SFTB
OK lets forget about referees and talk about Celtic fans having their wives and children filmed at Celtic Park by Police holding hand held cameras or is that taking my paranoia too far also ?
HH
SFTB
if half of an erse is dead and the other is not dead they can no longer be the same erse ???
Aye and theirs the rub.
there even
SFTB
sounds like you dont think Lord Nimmo will come up with much
HH
SFTB
sorry mate, we are now being subjected to injustices that any decent human right lawyer would make a fortune from
cconvicts being awarded money for slopping out but 1984 orwellian treatement of Celtic fans at home…
if we pay for policing at our matches why don’t they do their job and disperse the crowd after the match rather than film the due it… as I poited out again we are nearly 1 hour on london road because they are back at headquarters downloading film rather that on points duty…
…PFayr
Hello there!
Been back for two weeks, but not been on CQN much – with two women in the house not had much chance to access a computer!
If the day oot in Glasgow is still on for the 12th I’m afraid I wont be able to make it – daughter’s 18th birthday party that night.
However – hoping to meet up with BMCUW on the 15th for a wee refreshment in Troon. Delighted if you could join us.
Currently enjoying a very fine Nero d’Avola – cost about 3 times what it does in Italy!
Cin cin!!
HH!!
Emusanorphan
Perhaps
But….surely the time not to take it on the chin is when you’re being cheated ?
Frankly , I didn’t think TMs record as good as many others ..and was against his appointment from the start
No matter Lenny is doing extremely well and thankfully we no longer take it on the chin
HH
PFayr
yes we are. Kelvin WIlson, Racial abuse of Ambrose, Non penalties, 4 bookings for a four foul game, the battle of dens park 4 arrests — all for singing, penalties no longer on penalty spots and thats just off th etop of my head in the last two games.
HH
Brogan Rogan has submitted not one but two lengthy articles for the next issue of CQN Magazine. One revising his earlier posts on the Big Tax Case and the other an in depth look at banking and the Murray borrowings.
Tallybhoy
15 th …doubt it… school night …pushing my luck I’m afraid ..I’ll be in touch with BMCUWP and can pitch up if things change …
Shame you can’t make the 12 th …maybe next time .
TTTT
“I assumed they were on the list as we were keeping a tight reign on finances, but plenty of managers/coaches were available throughout Europe used to working on budgets way below Celtics.”
The response of the celtic support would have been just as scathing if a Stole Solbakken or Ivan Jovanovic were on the list. I do believe that the likes of Pellegrino and Bilic were unwilling to come, yet we had fantasists on here berating us for not approaching Mourinho to see if he would come.
TET
“during the dougiegate thing, we as a club were held responsible for the strike, which we as a club had nothing to do with, they lied, they tried to cover up, and when they were caught, they tried to lay the blame at our door, it had nothing to do with Celtic, that was our chance, we did nothing.”
As you outline yourself in that statement, we fought a minor skirmish there and though the ref’s strike won them nothing, we were not the victors either and have faced a backlash from, not only Scotland’s refs, but the fans of other clubs who think we are the beneficiaries of refs decisions as much as Sevco are.
I agree that The Board did not do enough for me but I have no expectations that they could win the argument on our behalf. Our Board could have saved Hugh Dallas, for example. One friendly word of forgiveness from us and I think he would still be in place. We did not, quite rightly, offer that word of support. We now have to be men enough to deal with their backlash of resentment for that.
PFayr
No matter Lenny is doing extremely well and thankfully we no longer take it on the chin.
Whit, come on, we are getting cheated week in week out, and neither Lenny or any suit is saying a word, we are indeed taking it in worse places than on the chin >)
Been reading back….. Never mind the establisment / LL agenda ……there are one or two on CQN who have their own little (personal) agenda …… Not sure if it’s to get attention, or born out of previous personal experience(s) ….. But not helpful when we need to maintain a united front for what is to come….. !?
Lol I see Alex Thompson is on his way to Belfast tomarrow…Flag protesters will love him lol
#Fleg
Awe naw
Thanks for drawing that list to my attention ….you’ve just depressed me cause I think you’re right ..
Fed up now
TET
maybe I’m being blinded by the success this season ..see my reply above ..
67Heaven
What is to come ?
and maybe those little personal agendas will pipe down.
I see the same old same old same old graph branching off to a vertical symtote
Personal experience ??????? where have you been your entire life ?
HH
Awe NAw
“OK lets forget about referees and talk about Celtic fans having their wives and children filmed at Celtic Park by Police holding hand held cameras or is that taking my paranoia too far also ?”
No it is not and I think we do need a strong approach from our club on those issues as the provocative behaviour of the Police is leading to a strong discouragement amongst our fan base. On that matter I am in agreement. Working class football fans, particularly those of BOTH Celtic and Sevco, are seen as ripe for clamping being punished. We are under real attack there and will need to defend our people. I had hoped that we would have a few trail “Not Guilty” verdicts to embolden our Board in taking a stand but Mr. Bankier’s public statements suggest he will be neither a strong nor effective advocate in these spheres.
I do think Lord Nimmo Smith will come up with stuff but I feel there will be strong counter pressure to minimise the implications “for the longer term good of the game”
bt
“we are now being subjected to injustices that any decent human right lawyer would make a fortune from”
I agree that the lawyers would make a fortune from the cases but would they win them for us? If not, we will just be losing money.
PFayr
find a hymn sheet and sing from it Heaven67 is handing them out … better than dealing with reality …. make up lies and spin it as the truth. Thats now acceptable ?
HH
SFTB
same old same old ?
HH
The word clamping should have been deleted from my post to Awe Naw
sftb
Again with respect I have to disagree with your last sentance.
We are in the the football business, it’s a sport, sport where the basic premis is a level playing field, unless there is a handicap system, and as yet, I do not know of a handicap system in football.
You’re sentance sounds to me like you are condoning their anti Celtic bias, I know you probably don’t mean that, but ffs, just cos they perceive we were to blame we have to suffer their backlash.
That is not in my world, we should be fighting that at ever turn.
SFTB
wont be long before the polis are clamping the supporters buses before we leave to Celtic Park and with full board approval.
HH
SFTB
do you believe we are being unfairly treated by being filmed? the GB are just the start of it.
do you believe the police are doing a good job at Celtic park and the most important thing in my opinion is, do you believe that Celtic PLC are colluding in this injustice?
Awe naw
Not acceptable for me …
Is Campbell Ogilvie still on gardening leave ?
Was he involved in the new restructuring meeting ?
Were Celtic represented or was this another proposed deal made with Celtic in ahem abstentia ?
HH
getting back into fighting mode before I return to work against the Tory government cuts.. o))
BT
of course they are colluding in it.
The reaction to the scenes at Dens Park said it ALL. You dont need Columbo on site to work that one out
HH
aw_naw
aye but that is why we are all dismissed as mineshafters..
we are all meant to follow like sheep…
BT
Was in town a couple of days ago, a new shop has just opened up, a sort of charity shop, a shop where folks can go to get free food, a shop where there were massive q’s at the shop, sad mi amigo, very sad.
Awe Naw
“same old same old ?”
I don’t, ultimately, know. Your guess is as good as mine. I cannot foresee how Lord Nimmo Smith will manage to minimise the dual contracts evidence. I suspect there is an appetite amongst some in the SFA and SPL hierarchy to take Charlie & Sevco down a peg or two for their shameless provocations.
But there will be equally strong pressure brought to bear on them to minimise sanctions, from our media and some politicians, fearing social unrest. If those people ask themselves the question, “Is fairness in football administration important enough to risk a resurgence in fan violence from a resentful Sevcovian support?”, they will say NO. They want Law and Order more than they want fairness.
I expect there will be a move, following Lord NS’s report, to resurrect title stripping but, this time, we will be down to a handful of years. Following a media campaign and political intervention, the administrators MAY be bold enough to officially withdraw one or two, but I doubt they will re-allocate any. In compensation, they will offer to fast track Sevco back into SPL 2 with no financial or transfer restrictions.
Sevco fans will go on counting the 2 or 3 titles that were withdrawn and Celtic will suffer further backlash.
On this issue, I am in the mineshafter tendency. How bout you?