Here’s the problem: this is a can of worms. If contagion was limited to Sir David Murray and other Murray Group executives, there may be more “appetite” to analyse what went wrong and what to do about it.
Rangers were a rogue football team, operating a tax scheme out with the law, failing to disclose appropriate documentation to HMRC, the SPL and SFA. Legal responsibility for the club’s actions lies with all directors, not just the majority owner. They have collective responsibility to ensure business is conducted appropriately. David King, Paul Murray, Alistair Johnston and former SFA president Campbell Ogilvie, were all Rangers directors during the EBT and DOS years.
The SPFL (formerly SPL) are also implicated. They set terms of reference for what became the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission, then amended those terms to only include matters which were, at that time, regarded as legal, explicitly excluding matters already confirmed as illegal.
They then failed to present evidence to Nimmo Smith of the five matters Rangers admitted guilt on during the First Tier Tribunal process, preferring only to present matters that were in dispute, but (temporarily) found in Rangers favour.
Having done this, they instructed their lawyer not to ask for an opportunity to appeal if the pending HMRC appeal was upheld. Instead, closing the book on a procedural appeal.
The SFA executives side just along the corridor from their SPFL counterparts. Yesterday they issued a remarkable statement:
“Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.
The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter”.
I refer you to SFA Disciplinary Rule 71, Article 94.1:
“No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, match official, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.”
They are asking you to believe that Senior Counsel told them no Rangers official brought the game into disrepute as a consequence of this matter. A matter which has left over £100m debt and hundreds of creditors unpaid, saw 55 players incorrectly registered, and one of the largest clubs in the country liquidated – the consequences of which will be permanent, no matter your view on Newco/same club.
All for an issue which Rangers directors gave evidence in court that the EBT scheme was undertaken to allow them to sign players they would otherwise be unable to pay. Ensuring an illegal sporting advantage.
Possible SFA sanctions for this include fines of up to £1m and/or expulsion from the game.
Sorry, but this is not a tenable position. The game was massively brought into disrepute; to issue a statement claiming otherwise just adds the stench of cover up to an already dreadful state. And bringing the game into disrepute is just scratching the surface, without going into consequences of the club’s actions on competitions.
I question the scope and remit given to Counsel, which was clearly limited in order to make it possible to deliver this statement. Who issued that scope and why it blinded Counsel to the clear matter of disrepute is another question to answer.
Executives at Hampden will have scoured news coverage this morning in the hope that this this will blow over. Scottish newspaper, TV and radio coverage is irrelevant. Instead, they should be looking to establish a recovery position for our game. This is not finished.
Those implicated by the contagion – the “heavily conflicted” do not get to decide that no action is to be taken; Scotland is not yet a Banana Republic.
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Get tae Hun/SFA Luxembourg Presidents. ;)
I tell you what……fast forward to 21:00… Now its Time.
There is a poll in the Scotsman as to whether or not any titles should be stripped.
No doubt those who want to kill this story are arranging mass votes.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/poll-should-rangers-be-stripped-of-their-ebt-titles-1-4496550
Neither Celtic nor the SFA will be influenced by the Hootsmons poll, just a sop to the huns…
BOYATA
ligament damage out for 6 weeks apparently .
Level 5s apprentice boys will be clicking these polls all day long….
Encouraged by Aberdeen fans response, though asking for the press to take up the fight.Scanned the rags in Morrisons , The Hun has nothing about this story , front page or back.
Starry – correct.
If they wanted to do their job, we would see the evidence on their headline pages with professional journalists examining why this has happened, who the perpetrators are and perhaps championing the cause of fundamental reform in the administration of the game in Scotland.
Rather they are indulging in click-baitery of the most basic kind.
No action in our favour or otherwise will be undertaken citing….”that poll in the Hootsmon.”
HH
Yogi Hughes from yesterday .
Prayers said for your sister in law & family .
RIP
Bada………
That is indeed their Level.
:)
HH.
On a different tack (for a while), deadline for signing players for Q2 games v Linfield is 11pm tonight (apart from a last minute wild card) , so it looks like we go with what we have, which should be more than enough.
Also, due to the date shift to 5pm on 14th, the 3rd round qualifiers will be drawn on the morning of the game. The signing deadline for Q3 ties is 11pm 20th July – 2 weeks from today.
Seems like the Boyata injury is more than a knock, so as we play our first home match of the season in the friendly v Lyon 22 hours after the Linfield CL Q2 tie, our resources will be stretched that little bit more.
Use this when you hear ‘club and company are separate” argument …
https://twitter.com/AitkensDrum/status/882730127368519680
Davidopoulos ,
Scrape all five stars … they’ve never won a premier league title .
” Hello John-Paul,
I applaud Celtic`s Statement implying that they expect action from the SFA/SPFL after the Supreme Court verdict on Rangers` illegal use of EBT`s.
I implore our Club Executive to continue in this vein until a fair outcome is achieved. I would also mention that I believe it is very important that the Support is kept informed of the Club`s views on this matter. From speaking with fans of other Clubs as well as Celtic and from reading football blogs, it is obvious that this issue, if not pursued, will lead to a lot of ill-feeling in Scottish football and ill-feeling will inevitably lead to a drop in attendances.
Do the right thing, Celtic. ”
I would suggest that everyone who feels this is an important issue should make sure Celtic know the strength of feeling on this matter by emailing the address below:
jptaylor@celticfc.co.uk
YogiHughes, condolences on the loss of your sister in law. Keep strong for the family.
On today’s Scotsman, I posted this reply this morning under Moira Gordon’s headline …
“SFA wades into debate on stripping Gers of titles”
The SPFL run the Premiership and the League Cup and like all football associations set the rules and punishments for their competitions. If the SPFL with its board of representative club directors determine that title stripping is appropriate for financial anomalies (avoiding tax and not declaring side letters to authorities) then they can do so.
The SFA run the Scottish Cup, a competition where Spartans were expelled from the 3rd round and a tie v Partick Thistle in 2011 because a player contract had one signature instead of two. Also fined (suspended) £4,000. Surely a proportional punishment for deliberate financial malfeasance over a decade would be in order?
As a former football association president, I recall that we were responsible for all rules pertaining to competitions under our jurisdiction, including player and club registration, club administration and all relevant disciplinary matters.
Likewise the SPFL will have the same authority over their competitions, as does the SFA with e.g. theScottish Cup.
We must dispel the smoke and mirrors and, as said on this forum previously, work together as a group and with other club fan groups to put pressure to bear on the relevant parties to do the right thing.
If they do not and just obfuscate and procrastinate, then we should seriously examine a legal platform to have these issues resolved, with all the resource, information, legal advice and associated costs it may entail.
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD on 6TH JULY 2017 12:59 PM
Im just wondering if any contacts between the CSA and other supporter associations is happening?
A national campaign would bring much light and heat to the blazer mob.
What I have been saying all along.Only way is a united front.Dons already up for it,where are the Hibees,United fans.They have no love for the Huns.There must be some way to join up the fans.We had fans from a lot of teams at the FAC protests.Cant be too difficult.As I said yesterday,only bumping our gums on here wont make a blind bit of difference.
STARRY PLOUGH on 6TH JULY 2017 1:03 PM
Mario Pašalić (born 9 February 1995) is a Croatian footballer who plays for Chelsea and Croatia national team as a central midfielder. He began his career at Hajduk Split before moving to Chelsea for a… wikipedia.org
Height: 6′ 2″ (1.88 m) Weight: 172 lb (78 kg)
Born: February 9, 1995 (age 22), Mainz, Germany
Position: Midfielder
Six fit two no less
Box to box player.Very good in the air,set pieces.Plays like SA with height.
Another rumour ,no doubt.
Has anyone heard from
Arnold the Accountant on EBT’s ?
Fred Colon
:)
Paul lays it out pretty well – and it’s important not to confuse out thinking and expectations on different topics.
As I see it, there are three strands to this…
1. Tax avoidance
That is essentially an issue between Rangers FC (IL), the beneficiaries of EBT’s and HMRC. On its own, the illegality of this will be addressed through creditor payments by BDO to HMRC – and by HMRC approaching EBT recipients for tax and NIC’s due.
This is an issue that can/will be “fixed” by financial reparations – not a cause for “title stripping” in its own right.
2. Legality of player registrations/Unlawful advantage
This is the “biggy” as far as Scottish fans are concerned. Does the Big Tax Case finding give due cause to revisit LNS and challenge its conclusions on how players were registered and how this affected competition – possibly leading to “title stripping” if deemed appropriate.
This is what we want – but might be difficult to achieve without some leverage.
3. Football Governance.
Who is fit to lead our clubs and game? Certainly, it should be a relative “no brainer” that Directors of Rangers FC (IL) have demonstrated that they are unfit to hold directorships and should have no future place in the Scottish game. I am astounded of forehead that their banning from the game would even be contested as a logical conclusion.
The trickier area here regards who knew what in the SFA/SPFL and whether they also have been demonstrated to be unfit for office either through incompetence – or at worse, corruption.
I would certainly have thought that Campbell Ogilvie’s position in any football association anywhere should be totally untenable given his role at Rangers FC (IL), his position as an EBT recipient – and possibly his role in an SFA incompetence or cover up.
Not sure how we progress items 2 & 3 – but they are potentially separate issues that perhaps need separate initiatives?
BIG-CUP-WINNERS on 6TH JULY 2017 1:43 PM
Scotsman poll:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/poll-should-rangers-be-stripped-of-their-ebt-titles-1-4496550
Wether its a click or not,get voting.One time only.
It’s funny that Stewart Regan finds himself in this position…
As a complete outsider to Scottish football with experience of sports association administration he seemed like a good choice to take the SFA forward. However, soon after starting he finds himself cutting a few corners and letting certain things go. Then a few more. A bit of lying here, a bit of duplicity there. Until he finds himself as a major player in the biggest scandal in Scottish football (which one you ask!!).
The fact that he is still hanging on in there isn’t remarkable. Corrupt despots running countries do it too. They may want to step aside – sometimes that would seem like the easier option but there is always something that compels them to stay put. As soon as they leave their post the true extent of their sins can be readily revealed.
Stewart Regan probably hates his job, but as long as he is in it he thinks he won’t be investigated for his role in the corruption of the sport.
He’s wrong btw…
From the article:
They then failed to present evidence to Nimmo Smith of the five matters Rangers admitted guilt on during the First Tier Tribunal process, preferring only to present matters that were in dispute, but (temporarily) found in Rangers favour.
Do we know the identities of the five rangers admitted guilt on?
I was trying to explain this to someone recently that not only did LNS exclude the DOS arrangement it also ignored some EBT payments that were uncontested as irregular by rangers.
cv
And then you think: ‘why would Scottish Referees be Freemasons?
I wonder. mmmm
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD
Scottish Referees that’s one of them oxy-morons is it no:))
Let me put it this way.
What if the blazered masonic types and the masonic referees bump into each other regularly on ‘social occasions’
Wonder what they would talk about:)
HH
Starry Plough
Never mind the ‘oxy’, lets just call them morons:)
HH
Surely the mother of all smoking guns, was SDM’s sworn testimony at the Craig Whyte trial that EBT’s gave THEM the chance to acquire players that THEY otherwise could not afford.
Quonno
You would think. But….Its an Orange Banana Republic.
Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil:)
HH
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD
I’ll cross them you knock them in::))))
For what it’s worth, here’s my take on EBTs. We need to see the wood from the trees. EBTs are legal financial instruments. Yesterday’s SC decision now changes legal counsel. Precedent has now been set. Rangers misused and administered EBT regards tax liability. Thats not ìllegal in itself with tax being recovered. Immoral yes. Side letters are the key. Non-disclosure of these to SFA should have brought them into disrepute. But LNS sham lead to SFA saying yes they did break our rules but we can’t punish them cause we didn’t know they were breaking them at the time! Fudge absolute garbage. DOS is also a legal financial instrument, which Rangers equally misused and administered. Legal counsel advised they pay HMRC because legal precedent had been set on DOS at the time before LNS as to how they were using it. LNS didn’t consider DOS because Rangers/SFA already knew it broke rules so removed from scope. Hence Res12 guys approach.
Need to seperate Finance from Football. Straight off SFA and SPFL will do nothing. They are compromised. 2012 Rangers liquidation and subsequent 5 way agreement meant the die was cast. The rule book, legal counsel common sense all went out the window. Remember “civil unrest” statememts? LNS enquiry was a sham but it served a purpose for them, to undermine this outcome.
SFA will only be moved by Scottish Parliment enquiry. Need to write to local MSP asking for questions to be tabled regarding the fitness/impartiality of SFA. This is supposed to be the Governing body for Scotland’s national sport, the revenue implicatioms of fans voting with their feet. Remember “…football is nothing without fans”. As a consequence UEFA don’t like Government’s influencing/dictating football matters and will also bring pressure on SFA. SPFL are controlled by clubs therefore that means us the fans, so you and me. We’ve done it before we can do it again. Rangers misused EBTs to gain a sporting and consequently broke non-disclosure footballing rules. SFA/SPFL don’t want to apply rules because, one goes down they all go down..
Well now. I have just composed a rather tense communication to the PLC letterbox. Respectfully reminding the PLC, that Celtic supporters ‘Await’.
I would urge every poster on CQN to do likewise.
HH
Starry Plough
Gagfest:)
HH
Title stripping is going to play havoc with the continuity myth.
We are dealing with people who still believe that’s it’s there God given right to pollute the streets of this with bigoted anti catholic bile. The arrogance they display is almost unequalled anywhere else. They truly believe that this will all go away given time because they are the people.
Hopefully the real football people will collectively stand up in the coming weeks to ensure that the right outcome is achieved for the good of the game in this country. If that means crowd funding to get the level of expertise required count me in. This is far too important a matter to be brushed under the carpet. It goes further than football it goes right to the heart of the establishment.
Politicians were quick enough to come out when they went down the tubes. Let’s hear what you’ve got to say about this scandal then.
The question ‘should titles be stripped?’ is typical of what we are seeing at the moment. For many it is a case of who shouts the loudest. The real question is should there be an investigation into Rangers use of EBT’s? If anyone says no then you ask them why, if you haven’t done anything wrong what do you have to worry about?
Everyone and their wife knows they cheated. Even supporters of Rangers. Some might need to go deep deep down to find that conclusion but trust me they know. But still they try to cling onto those discredited trophies. If you ever wonder what WATP really means, this is your answer.
Id still rather settle this with a mass Blazing Saddles type brawl on Glasgow Green:)
HH
http://celticfanzone.net/scottish-football-wants-justice-not-just-celtic/