Arne Engels should be a great lesson in how to develop footballers. We paid a premium to acquire the player and a year after he found himself on the bench towards the end of Brendan Rodgers’ time in charge last season. Martin O’Neill was in no doubt about what he could do with him, though. The player missed two months football through injury early in the year, before returning as a sub on the final game before the split, in a tense 1-0 win over St Mirren.
He started every game from then until the end of the season, bringing an energy and positional discipline the team were previously lacking. He is still only 22-years-old and without doubt would be a mainstay in the team, if we were able to keep him.
Nottingham Forest’s reported bid this morning could make that difficult. Arne has two years left on his Celtic contract and would likely treble the top wage at Celtic by moving to Forest. If, as is likely Celtic are resigned to losing him, they are likely to test the water with other clubs before taking conversations with Forest seriously.
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The lesson is pay more for quality and you’ll get it back in spades. Speculate to accumulate. Instead we can expect more cheap Desmond duds by way of replacements.
Lovely day😎
Sir Robert Kelly was indeed often referred to as Bob Kelly but never Bobby and was always seen at mass in St Columbkille’s along with Sean Fallon.
Recently there were some nostalgic posts recalling memories of Celtic’s Charlie Gallagher. Charlie was indeed an elegant midfielder but one who was not loved by all members of the support. We had some real grumpy old barstewards within the support even in those days, (probably the grandfathers of some of CQN’s finest moaning minnies) who turned up, paid their half-crowns at the turnstile, smoked their pipes of St. Bruno or their Woodbines or Capstan Full Strength fags and made Charlie one of the early members of the Escaped Goats club. However, he was not alone in the clubhouse. He was often joined by Alec Byrne who, along with Charlie, was described as having no heart, afraid to ‘getintaethum’. Bobby Carroll, John Colrain, Mike Jackson and even the original Big Yogi often got it in the neck from furious fans. Frank (You Need Hands) Haffey, though very popular with the crowd, was another who got the ‘Aw Fur F+++ Sake’ treatment at the loss of a goal. These were the great pie and Bovril days of Hail Glorious Saint Patrick, Sean South of Garryowen, brilliant sliding-tackles from big Jim Kennedy, 40 yard grass-cutter passes from Paddy Crerand and great diving headers from the aptly named Johnny Divers. Alas, those days are well and truly gone. Now, we win things and have a star above the crest, the half-crown, has been replaced with the season book, the pie and Bovril with the Pizza and Latte and Bob Kelly with a geriatric grey suit…
If we had kept Kwon and developed him we would have a ready made replacement for Engels..Instead Rodgers wouldn’t pick him and now he is captain of Real Madrid who paid 100 million for him after seeing him with Dumbarton reserves.
Rodgers destroyed Celtic. No doubt about it
Arne was part of the Brendan window. In terms of contribution our most successful since Ange and dom McKays.
However, let’s get tore into Brendan for dropping him for a bit. Something that all top footballers have to go through from time to time.
Aye.
Paul67
Hilarious wind up 🤣🤣
Oh and don’t forget about Oh
The complete centre forward who has won the golden Boot for 2 years running now and has just been signed by Bayern Munich for 150 million
“Arne Engels should be a great lesson in how to develop footballers. We paid a premium to acquire the player…
Totally agree – a decade of kissing frogs proved to our previous manager and anyone that was paying attention, this was an abject futility excercise.
Brendan Rodgers and Co managed to develop a number of players in the time they were here – but as far as selling HVPs Matt, Nic Kuhn and Arne will be the poster bhoys…
Yet, the same methodology is repeatabke – as long as the player brought in has the necessary qualities and attributes…
If that means paying 10 mn for the right prospect, so be it…
Hail Hail
BSR @ 10:33 am,
Yes, very good point re-English games…
Fozzy knowing lower league English football, MO’N on EPL punditry with talksport…
That’s quite a plethora of players at various stages in their career and various price points they’ve seen…
Yet, no-one on our radar as yet…
That is some list, and I do enjoy a list… but wow – money for nothing and your tickets for free…
The recruitment myth did extended to Doctor Football – busy looking good and power naps aside – he seems to have left our recruitment at ground zero…
Hopefully Arne’s sale will wake the moneymen from their slumber…
Hail Hail
For every Engles, theres and Idah
No BRRB…
Is he having lunch in his orangery?
Aff ooot
Hail Hail
Idah cost us a net £2m in transfers and scored 20 goals including 3 in champions league.
We paid 3m for yamada for a season
Furra record, BR drapped Arne to teach him about ra standards which he was falling short of attaining.
The Carnlough Caliph did the same with Reluctant Reo, who seemed unwilling to care for possession in big Euro games or pull his mercurial socks up up when the contest got meaty.
In pushing us to sign Arne, BR helped make us a motzah and show tradable assets that CFC actually do big money deals for young aspirants looking for a tartan framed shoap window.
Rumours, Paul, that Brendan metaphorically ate yer hamsters (a cuckold’s metaphor?) are thus unfounded.
CHAIRBHOY on 13TH JULY 2026 12:23 PM
Brendan Rodgers and Co managed to develop a number of players in the time they were here – but as far as selling HVPs Matt, Nic Kuhn and Arne will be the poster bhoys…
He developed Arne from a starter into a bench player. His confidence was shot to pieces when Brendan quit.
Your development strategy wouldnt have signed Nic Kuhn, he wouldnt have been at Celtic if had tiur way
You also said a couple of years ago that under no circumstances should we sell our best players, development signings or not.
You’re all over the place.
Raskin is a decent footballer, it has to be said, and even made the Belgian starting team in the WC.
But I still think I would rather have Arne.
Arne was an expensive example but he fitted the profile of what we should be looking at perfectly. Right age, right experience, right exposure to scouts ftom bigger leagues.
We’ve been doing this long enough to know the rules – transfer fees guarantee nothing except for a smaller profit.
More Arnes, more Matt’s, more frees, more cheap punts, more managers committed to developing all the developement signings
A clear pathway to a bigger league
Simple
Notts Forest didn’t bid 25m in January based on a month playing under O’Neill
If Arne is for the off we’ll miss him ,but I’m already looking forward to his replacement being unveiled …
… in 2028. Hopefully in time for the crucial conference league qualifiers. We’ll need someone to provide Shin Yamada with ammo , Duran having just been sold to Bournemouth for £30m .
EvaPetulengro csc.
Celtic40me @ 12:35 pm,
Let me explain how it works on CQN
Brendan Rodgers has never developed a player – period.
All the good players were signed by the Lawwells
All the bad players were signed by Brendan Rodgers or if we can’t pin it on him anyone else but the Lawwells
CQN fholklore – Brendan Rodgers wasted money on signing Arne Engels, while another young Belgian, Raskin, much better went for a pittance to R2ngers…
Of course that particular one got shelved after I pointed out that Raskin was signed by R2ngers before Brendan returned.
Also Mark was Head of recruitment at the time
Also Peter was Chairman at the time
Now Arne is worth more than double what we paid for him…
I’m not expecting the Brendan, Raskin myth to be repeated anytime soon…
The made up nonsense you peddle to bring our club to it’s knees and you keep on and on with this b.s…. no ones buying it anymore Spurs boy…
Want a row – go to White Hart Lane.
Aff oot, ooot…
Hail Hail
Afternoon, all.
Hoop hoop Hooray on 13th July 2026 12:19 pm
I was vocal in my disgust that Celtic had reappointed Brendan as first team coach.
I got over that and despite his faults and failings I recognise him as great manager of our football club.
Paul’s constant attacks on him and failure to point the finger at the real failures running our club does nothing for both himself and this blog.
We played some great stuff under BR in the first half of the 2024/25 season with the RB Leipzig game a standout.
I couldn’t remember the fitness levels in the squad ever being so high.
Even some of the tv pundits said Celtic were playing the best football in the SPL for many years.
The second part of the season was disappointing in comparison, apart from the away game at Bayern.
For information.
This is a link to an AI explanation of profit from selling Engles for £25m It is the profit that gets added to football earnings in the FSR SCR calculation.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eY6hYf4uZqJOzDlEHcHP-93unX0DG3ic/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=107947982974245186134&rtpof=true&sd=true
53,000 ST renewals is a vote for Celtic and testament to the supporters.
The Board leaking season ticket renewal success waiting for a standing ovation as a vote of confidence, is like a landlord claiming the tenants love him because they haven’t flitted..
Supporters renew for Celtic, for the badge, the history, and the club that’s been in their families for generations. They don’t renew to hand out performance reviews to the Board, especially not this summers lucky lot.
Celtic supporters darn the hair CSC
Nice nuance Paul.
Could it be the lack of game time is a reason for fall out between Board and BR?
In BR’s defense I have still to see Arne performing to same level as MoR did to warrant a £25m sale but perhaps Notts Forrest’s £25m is our £11m?
I have seen a bit of improvement after Anges return from injury. He has bulked up a bit and not so easily knocked off the ball and if he goes for £25m the profit will go some way to increasing football earnings and along with likely sale of Maeda will compensate for the reduction between CL income and EL income .
The FSR question I posed and follow ups mentioned by Wee Ron then come into play.
It will be an interesting AGM if reasoned comparisons of our spend and Rangers on playing squads start to emerge from a more informed shareholder and fan base when latest accounts are published for both.
Auldheid,
Interesting indeed.
Thanks,
Weeron
“Arne Engels should be a great lesson in how to develop footballers. We paid a premium to acquire the player and a year after he found himself on the bench towards the end of Brendan Rodgers’ time in charge last season”.
Indeed, like Idah it could easily have gone badly wrong.
For me it’s vital to differentiate between adding genuine value and finding a greater fool to pay you more for what you overpaid for. Rely too much on the latter and you’ll eventually come a cropper.
With Engels I think we’ve found our greater fool so I’ll be delighted to see Celtic take the money and run.
Good afternoon all from the Tolbooth, Avenida de Saltmarket. Pint of Pimms barkeep!
“The lesson of Arne Engels”
————
….would be to let a manager who knows what he is doing spend decent money on a player with experience in quality leagues rather than waste it on cheap punts from outer nowhereland who are nowhere near the required level.
Who would win a fight between the Arne Engels that Rodgers blew £11m on and the one who he left out of the team?
Arne – if he goes for the mooted moolah – will be a decent transaction; bought for big money, did well enough, moved on for bigger money.
We’ve had bigger successes in terms of both performance delivered and surplus generated and Arne is by no means an exemplar for either development strategy or financial impact.
The ceiling for SPFL players has been about £25M. It’ll rise a little over the years provided football continues to inflate and Celtic continues to develop quality footballers, but there’s a fairly hard limit to the money clubs will pay us for our players.
In that context, I think we can buy better than Arne – either better players or lower transfer fees. MOR, Jota, Kuhn are recent examples where we’ve paid less, got better performances and greater surpluses. Adam Idah is the antithesis – suboptimal altogether.
How much have Forest bid?
They recently sold Anderson for (reportedly, can we ever know ?)
… up to £130m.
I genuinely wonder what the evaluation of Arne would look like if the following was removed from considerations
“£11m”
Young guy, did fine, started well, dipped a bit (young guys do), got injured, came back and upped his game.
Good driving force, looks like the type that takes responsibility, hungry, ambitious.
misses some simple looking marks sometime? …
… which might draw unflattering comparisons with the technically superior Matt O’Riley
(Who does a different job)
Overall a success for sure.
IMHO, and to chats on here last week .. the “Arne type” is one type of signing in a blended recruitment strategy.
Still young and full of potential but with a heftier price tag already.
A reward or lock in for the manager who has developed Kuhns (most noticeably) plus a few others for a few extra quid (Mikey, Bosun)
… and so gets to splash once in a while.
Arne is quality and saved out season along with Johnston and Iheanacho.
Gutted we will probably lose him as a key player but also as we have to roll the dice several time this summer to create a new midfield.
Chairbhoy on 13th July 2026 12:25 pm
BSR @ 10:33 am,
Yes, very good point re-English games…
Fozzy knowing lower league English football, MO’N on EPL punditry with talksport…
That’s quite a plethora of players at various stages in their career and various price points they’ve seen…
Yet, no-one on our radar as yet…
That is some list, and I do enjoy a list… but wow – money for nothing and your tickets for free…
The recruitment myth did extended to Doctor Football – busy looking good and power naps aside – he seems to have left our recruitment at ground zero…
Hopefully Arne’s sale will wake the moneymen from their slumber…
Hail Hail
We do have to temper BSRs list a little bit – a good number of players on there were sold at a profit or with little loss so the overall 80m Euro spend is not entirely accurate of the amount spent on those. Over a similar time period our top ten sales were
Fraser Fosrster (2014) £10m
Liel Abada (2024) £10m
Jeremie Frimpong (2021) £10.5m
Virgil Van Dijk (2015) £11.5m
Victor Wanyama (2013) £12.5m
Kristofer Ajer (2021) £13.5m
Odsonne Eduoard (2021) £14m
Moussa Dembele (2021) £18m
Kieran Tierney (2019) £25m
Jota (2023) £25m
Matt O’Riley (2024) £27m
total £177m
Not all of those were signed by BR and not all sold by BR. I believe that arguments over individual signings a largely subjective – who signed them, who developed them.
It’s all part of the Celtic Paradox – on paper on a lot of KPIs we are doing really well. But in current practice we are making a total hash of so much.
The objective bit is that Celtic are well in the plus side of the ledger over the long term.
We need to be operating smarter than we are – undoubtedly.
We need to be using FSR to our advantage – as demonstrated by Auldheid – absolutely.
I wish I knew the answers.
I totally believe that at present the Celtic board are underperforming, but I’m still buying my ticket and going to the games.
I believe that DD is not doing anything much to develop the club, but I am extremely wary of changing the ownership model. The reality is that DD personally is not really taking anything out of the club (other than letting his shares rise in price) and don’t want somebody where that is the most important thing ( ref the Glaser family at Man Utd).
We are though reaching a critical point.
The stadium is growing older, the main stand is really disgraceful but DD will only countenance development predicated on being in a bigger league environment (nearly 30 years on you would think he would realise it ain’t going to happen) – and won’t invest to get champions league money 2 out of three years and misses out on lots of income because of it ( I don’t get it).
https://news.stv.tv/west-central/celtic-submit-plans-to-create-sports-pitch-for-kids-outside-stadium
BASHI-BAZOUKS
Good shout we’ve looked at lists from both sides now.🎶
Fingers in the ears not listening to Arne Engels bids isn’t a transfer strategy either.
It’s more ‘don’t answer the phone because we forgot to go the messages’
A successful business would have pinpointed his potential replacements in January.
Maybe we have, time will tell.