EBTs “Gave us the opportunity to get players we otherwise couldn’t afford.”
With those words in the Glasgow High Court witness box yesterday, Sir David Murray laid bare the sporting advantage question of Rangers EBTs. EBTs gave Rangers a sporting advantage. If the loans were illegally executed, the club gained an illegal sporting advantage.
At the time of the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission the payments were regarded as legal, the Commission therefore ruled that no illegal sporting advantage was gained, as any other club could have acted in the same manner. The Supreme Court will have the final say on the legality later this year.
You and I know better than to hazard a guess as to which way that decision will go, but it will be worth tuning in for.
That aside, former vice-chairman of Rangers, Donald Findlay, representing former chairman of Rangers, Craig Whyte, appeared to enjoy questioning Sir David, another former chairman of Rangers, more than old Zsa Zsa in the witness box enjoyed being questioned.
Win a chance to play on Celtic Park this Monday, 1 May 2017
I expect the number of us who have pulled on a Celtic shirt and played at Celtic Park will be very few, but………
There is a club sponsors’ game on the hallowed turf this Monday, 1 May 2017, and those incredible people at Intelligent Car Leasing have given me one of their places in the line-up.
We have an ebay auction here for the spot, benefiting your very own Celtic FC Foundation. It was launched a few moments ago and ends tomorrow around noon, so the number of bidders will be limited.
You will enjoy the whole playing at Celtic Park experience, just as Quinn, McGrory, Johnstone, McNeill, Dalglish and Larsson did before you. You will make fantastic memories, you’ll bore your friends with the photos for months. You will look back on this when you account for the great moments in your life.
Celtic kit will be provided, although you’ll need to bring your own boots and shin guards.
Opportunities like this come along when the pitch is about to be replaced, and that happen only twice in the previous 20 years.
This is a 24 hour listing and the clock is ticking. Bid for yourself, or for someone special.
JOCK STEIN T-SHIRT STOCK UPDATE – Small – 2 left, Medium 3 left, Large only 1 left, XL 11 left and XXL 7 left. Order yours at www.cqnbookstore.com (just click on image above).
375 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- 8
- 9
- 10
- »
MIKE IN TORONTO on 27TH APRIL 2017 3:50 PM
Yeah, he is banned for the next league game after Ibrox as he is over the points threshold – it kicks in 2 games later.
KTF
I think I may entertain myself by taking a peek at Dangerous Mader later.
Not been in for a couple of years but I think the rage will be palatable. :-@)))
MWD
In all fairness if positions were reversed and it was the likes of Halliday appealing the red he should have got, we would be up in arms.
Anyway, I’m over the moon to have Brooney available against the Huns.
I’m not overly bothered about going through season unbeaten but there are two games I really want Celtic to win and the first of these is Saturday.
Big Jimmy
sorry, answered VFR first as it was a shorter answer ….
a few things.
So, I am talking, generally, and in very broad strokes. And, I know you are a fairly recent poster, so you should know that I am not trained or qualified in Scotland, so, I cant give advice on cases in Britain. My comments are more of a general interest sort …
Firstly, there are rules/practices that are generally common amongst most of the common law counties (most of the commonwealth countries, plus some others). However, as always, there are differences too, and the key is sometimes the differences.
There are rules that set out how (and sometimes limit) how evidence in one proceeding can be or cannot be for collateral purpose (for example, in another proceeding). So, if a person testifies against someone else in one proceeding, some jurisdictions do not permit that evidence to be used against the witness in a subsequent proceeding.
conversely, – and this goes to your question – there are rules about estoppel, which means that something that was found in one court may not be disputed in another proceeding. However, there are qualifications on the doctrine of estoppel. But, this is not a straightforward issue …. what is estopped has generated mountains of case law over the years, and often turns on the facts of each case.
How these two principles (that can sometimes seem contradictory) interact is often important.
As for the Whyte case, I haven’t followed it closely enough to really know yet what was said, or its implications for, for example, LNS.
But, I cant see this as hurting … the only question is how much does it help, a little or a lot.
sorry, if the answer is fairly general, but, you have actually asked a few very important and nuanced questions that really could take days to answer (and I would, if I were billing! :)
Broonie plays, hahahaha suck it up Huns…
SDM’S response to DF yesterday re use if ebts was only a repeat of what he told the FTT in 2010.
That was disguised by use of the colour coding employed when making part of that testimony public in Nov 2015.
Alex Thomson commented upon it at
http://dothebouncy.com/main/threads/alex-thomson-rangers-cheated-at-football-the-fraudulent-silverware-must-go.67800/
The FTT testimony was in private so the SFA/SPL (then) might be able to plead that in 2012, when establishing the LNS Commission, they were unaware of SDM’S testimony which would have presented difficulties to LNS in saying no sporting advantage.
But LNS was commissioned using lawyers and the idea that legals were unaware of SDM’S testimony in 2010 stretches credulity past braking point.
However we are where we are. We know why ebts were used. We know some ebts (DOS and 5 bonus payts) were irregular and if it turns out all were then LNS must be revisited but even if the SC find for MIH the use of the illegal ebts must be revisited and should not be buried by decision on other ebts.
Corky
and the other is Hearts or is it the main glasgow derby against PT?
I don’t think there is a player in the hun team who I would be raging at not missing this game. They are all mince and if we turn up like last Sunday then it doesn’t matter what combination of players of theirs play to the water glass 10 second rule tactic.
MWD
VFR … thanks. It seems that the zombies are scared of SB playing, so that is reason enough for me to want him to play. It would be nice if he scored the winner on the weekend … their pointy heads would explode!
Better get back to work!
Now wouldn’t it be hilarious if Broony was rested on Saturday!
KTF
“it kicks in 2 games later”
Vfr,
2 weeks later.
Corky,
The currants did do what we done with one of their centre halfs and there wasn’t nearly the same stushie as there was with broony.
HH
Thought there was a good chance of the red card downgrade after Schalk was banned for 2 games for the dive that led to the flashpoint, especially if the referee had any say in it.
Also, need I mention Halliday’s breenge at Patrick early doors Sunday, which merited only yellow from our ‘elite’ referee.
Also I seem to remember that Broony will miss 2 games, the Sainties and Sheep games, due to yellow card totting up. a decent trade keeping him fresh for Final v Sheep in my opinion.
Page after page of perma-rage over on FF regarding Scott Brown.
Really is side-splitting stuff.
VFR800 4.04
I was thinking the EXACT SAME yesterday about BR resting him , on winning his appeal.
HONEST !
my thought was/is that the Huns will really have him targeted MORE than ever, and whether it’s a leg breaking assault on Broony, they wouldn’t care as whoever carries out the execution and maybe getting sent off for it, would in effect be taking one for the team ? the hun will also be hoping that he loses the plot, and gets sent off ?
MAYBE, Brendan has already made up his mind and that Broony and one or two others be ” rested ?
the Hun will be even more raging at this moment…but there again lies the hypocrisy….cos ever since Celtic signed Scott Brown, they are never slow at telling us how crap he is ?
If he was crap….what are they so worried about ? HaHA
HH
But Geordie, I think that was Kiernan. He is shite and Celtic fans were probably delighted that he was available.
Come to think about it, they are all shite and no Celt gives a toss who is available or who is out for them.
MOONBEAMSWD on 27TH APRIL 2017 4:00 PM
Corky
and the other is Hearts or is it the main glasgow derby against PT?
I don’t think there is a player in the hun team who I would be raging at not missing this game. They are all mince and if we turn up like last Sunday then it doesn’t matter what combination of players of theirs play to the water glass 10 second rule tactic.
MWD
correction Chaps, That would be The HOLY WATER !
HH
Embramike,
I agree. I also thought there was a good chance when the ref appears to go for yellow then changes his mind.
I also thought the tackle on paddy being deemed a yellow would also help his cause but I read on here that this wouldn’t be taken on-board.
Mindye, I also read on here there’s no way broony would win his appeal cos of some big sfa hun masonic conspiracy ;)
HH
Re my previous here is an extract from SDM’s testimony to the FTT
SDM Testimony to FTT on 25th Oct 2010 (The Purpose of using ebts.)
Page 125
Q. I’m just going to ask you a few questions, Sir David.
18 When I ask them, could you direct the answers to the
19 Tribunal.
20 A. Certainly.
21 Q. Because they want to hear what you’re going to say. If
22 we can go to the remuneration trust.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And its operation. Would you describe it or would you
25 not as a tax avoidance scheme?
Page 126
1 A. No, not at all. I think it was a method of us
2 acquiring, especially football wise, better players in a
3 more cost effective manner than we would be able do so.
4 In the football world, we’re in a very competitive game
5 and you’re competing with players and countries all
6 around the world. And we were very ambitious at that
7 time. And it was seen as a correct and proper way for
8 us to proceed.
Page 126
21 Q. As regards football players, was it a success in getting
22 good football players, do you think?
23 A. As a club, we have been very successful, because we’ve
24 been able to attract players of a certain standard that,
25 perhaps, we may not have been able to do otherwise.
Those charged with the LNS Commissioning would not have seen this in 2012 and even the published version in 2015, using colour coding (SDM was Mr Black) might not have alerted them but now that SDM’s motives are in the open, what LNS did decide re no sporting advantage has to be questionable given motivation has been established in public.
Auldheid
Significantly, Lord Nimmo Smith made absolutely nothing and no comment on the import of Mr Black’s testimony at the FTT, yet saw fit to opine that no sporting advantage was gained by the use of EBT’s.
It therefore follows, that LNS saw no sporting advantage as being gained by Rangers PLC in fielding players whose registration was accepted as imperfect, despite it being obvious that the reason for the imperfection related solely to the same EBT’s and their implementation and management.
Further, according to LNS, despite the entire EBT scheme being designed to gain an advantage which allowed Rangers to field better players than they could otherwise afford, and which advantage would not have been available were it not for the same EBT’s, no sporting advantage was actually gained despite those players actually playing football for the club!
Yes, I know it sounds like something out of SOAP but that is what the judgement actually means.
Utter balderdash when looked at in the real world.
Brooney is going to be “rested” for the two games after Ibrox so I expect Brooney to play.
Brendan is a life long Celt, he knows what it means to the fans when we play any incarnation that play at Ibrox.
He will want to win this game, the resting and experimentation will be in our last 4 League games.
Re: Brown downgraded to a yellow – free to play
shocked, but not surprised.
they’re now just rewriting the rules to suit their own agenda.
if they don’t get the result they want, they start a campaign of intimidation, smear and vitriol until they get what they came for.
worse still, the sfa, the politicians and the media are in their back pocket – and no-one, yet no-one, stands up to or opposes them.
while that’s going on, we battle eachother and tear ourselves apart with schisms and infighting.
the only people that can halt the paddy mafia are the people, and at the moment, our voice is nowhere to be found.
they finally got what they’ve sought for years – the pre-eminent position in scottish football and scottish society at large.
that could only be achieved by dismantling the rangers, and they systematically did that too.
gobshite
ˈmiːnɪŋ/Submit
noun
1. Mr. D Murray
what is meant by a word, text, concept, or action.
“the meaning of the Hindu word is ‘breakthrough, release’”
synonyms: definition, sense, explanation, denotation, connotation, interpretation, elucidation, explication
“the word has several different meanings”
adjective
1.
intended to communicate something that is not directly expressed.
“she gave Gabriel a meaning look”
synonyms: meaningful, significant, pointed, eloquent, expressive, pregnant, speaking, telltale, revealing, suggestive
“she gave him a meaning look”
“Brooney is going to be “rested” for the two games after Ibrox so I expect Brooney to play.”
Corkcelt,
HH
The hun is convinced that the SFA is under the control of Peter Lawwell and his deputies.
I think that, for them, this is a logical assumption.
The way they see it, is, that the worm has turned and as such, where they were once in control of what went on at Hampden, the control has swung the way of the worm, i.e., us.
It’s a mindset they have.
Because they abused the system when they were on top, they assume that others would do the same.
It’s that fear that cripples them in the north of Ireland.
IanBhoy929 on 27th April 2017 3:39 pm
Surprised, didn’t see that coming.
=============
I thought he had a good chance given other reds have been overturned when put under a legal lens.
The ref going for his back pocket first was in Scott’s favour as was RC players surrounding and so influencing the ref. All on the day and although other worse tackles on other days may have been inadmissible, if those deciding had seen them they would know a red would have been unfair.
If we drop the idea that everyone at Hampden is out to get us then decisions like this would be less of a surprise (but given what has happened in the past, when the approach was less legalistic I can understand it taking time to realise a change in process will produce a change in result.)
The Phone in should be a laugh tonight.
Paul67 et al
Scott Brown?
Not Provan
I wouldn’t play Scott Brown on Saturday,and I would like to see Safe standing in the Celtic End.
MIKE IN TORONTO 3.58,
Take as many days as you like Mike…….just send your bill to VFR800 ( A MONSTER), 1888 The Celtic Way, Paradise, Glasgow, Not so Bonnie Scotland.
I obviously wondered as to how a convicted criminal with a motive/agenda ( possible shortening of his sentence ?) how his testimony/evidence is accepted in Scottish Courts ( maybe uk), when there any possible doubt about “Documented Evidence” taken from another case within an early Court of Law, in which evidence documented COULD be extremely relative to a later Court case/Inquiry ?
Cheers mate, remember and and on 10% tip for yourself ?
HH
7 pages already on FF, this one is a particular gem,
————
stillill stillill is offline
Still liking the triangles
Join Date
26-08-2006
Posts
515
Blog Entries
1
Default Re: Brown downgraded to a yellow – free to play
Even on kerryfail street they are thanking Liewell. What joy can their be for any football fan in winning rigged titles when you know the SFA are your twelfth man?
Hammer throwers have won Scottish football. Put out the lights
Top_Cat Top_Cat is offline
I only went with your Mother cos she’s dirty
Join Date
31-07-2008
Location
Valhalla
Posts
39,607
Default Re: Brown downgraded to a yellow – free to play
They are openly laughing at us now.
——-
You better believe we are!!!
Can`t believe people saying don`t play Scott Brown on Saturday our skipper will love being the pantomime villain at Mordor.
TTR
Given the clever, patient, skilful passing football played by the Celts on Sunday, the most offensive part of that perma-rage extract from FF (Free Fall) is the reference to hammer throwers.
the huns on deadclub media are venting their permarage at broonie winning his appeal,
A joy to behold :)))))))))))))))
From the BBC site:
“While Brown is available to play in the Old Firm (sic ) derby at Ibrox, the yellow card takes him over the disciplinary threshold that triggers a two-game suspension.
That means he will sit out subsequent league matches against St Johnstone and Aberdeen.”
JJ
PS Not sureif I spelled `sic ` correctly.
Openly laughing at them.
Na Na Na Na, it’s better than that.
MWD
Saturday….I predict a Hun riot….especially if our Beloved Captain Broony scores the WINNER ?
Thank God I am too sensible, and too damn good looking to be a Hun !
HH
TTR
That second extract: “now” is the offending word. We have been laughing for a long time. At times, mind you, it’s mixed with a little bit of puzzlement and sadness brought on by being confronted with people are so deeply lacking in self-awareness and steeped in hatred.
last week they were saying broonie would not make a difference, today they are vomiting
BBC Scotland, on Monday, did not deem Celtic`s Cup victory over Sevco as worthy of a mention on Reporting Scotland. I wonder if the much less significant matter of a player winning an appeal will also be ignored?
JJ