I’ve just caught Joe O’Rourke’s article on the Association site about the long-awaited released of statistics on sectarian crime in Scotland. Joe suggests that the data from 2003 – 2010 was has been destroyed by the Crown Office. I also hear that the Scottish Government will release entirely irrelevant ‘information’ today, specifically, where offences took place, not which groups were responsible or which groups were targeted by the offenders.
It takes a lot of effort to make sure you destroy data these days, you need to ensure not only that prosecutors permanently delete backups (which I really doubt they do) but also that the police similarly comply.
Fortunately all is not lost. While it’s just about believable that regional police forces across Scotland and the Crown Office have acted in symmetry on this issue, I could have helped the First Minister, Alex Salmond’s, search for clarity by pointing him in the direction of British Transport Police (BTP). The Transport Police are a separate force who operate across Britain and are run by the Home Office in London. They are also a lot less proficient at destroying data.
They previously gave me detailed statistics on all incidents they record in connection with Scottish football for season 2007-08. One of the most pleasing aspects of the information is the complete eradication of sectarian offences from all but one Scottish club, so the First Minister will be delighted to learn he has a smaller problem on his hands than he perhaps knew. According to BTP, 11 arrests were made for sectarian offences in total, 10 Rangers fans and one Northern Ireland fan.
You can see the detail figures for all recorded incidents here (the majority of which are for non-sectarian issues). From a total of 99 incidents (not all of which resulted in arrest), there were six involving Celtic fans, six for Dundee United, seven for Motherwell, four for Hibernian and five each for Aberdeen and Hearts. Rangers fans were involved in a total of 48 incidents.
The BPT figures also make it clear that most incidents occur when fans travel to away venues. The Force also confirmed that incidents surrounding the 2008 Uefa Cup final in Manchester were not included in these statistics.
To further aid Mr Salmond in his search for clarity on this issue, he can contact British Transport Police with a Freedom of Information request here, where they will be able to provide him (or you) with up to date stats.
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Good point well made Paul
.
Parikshit (Proven) Hateley..
Summa
The huns to produce a ra**ers turban?
Might be a best seller!
Paul67
Please delete this post if offensive.
What is the exchange rate for pounds/rupees?
Or would the rupees all be kept, er, offshore?
Given that the Transport Police record data on the allegiance of football fans arrested, who do other police forces not record this? I think the question should be asked of the Scottish Government.
Zheng Zi is still bringing in Millions of £’s a year from the Chinese market for Celtic’s merchandising operation. One can only imagine how many Millions of Rupees Rangers stand to make as a result of signing India’s rising stars.
It truly is a stroke of genius by the Whyte Knight. Between that and making sure Celtic supporters are getting in the headlines all week he has very nearly imagined all of Rangers problems away.
Mort says:
18 November, 2011 at 11:58
From Coleraine originally, but been living in the big smoke for about 8 years now.
Paul67
Great stuff, leaving the lazy journalists in your wake again!! But what has Jim Duffy, (BTP), got to do with it?
Are the Hearts fans now asking themselves that old question……what have the Romanovs ever done for us?
Great work on the stats Paul67. I’m feeling a bit better now.
Impressive piece of journalism…
paul67,
be interesting to hear what Salmond, Grahame, Cunningham et al make of those stats.
Somehow doubt we’ll hear too much don’t you?
As for the destroyed documents……..why????
Only the cynics/paranoid/conspiracy theorists would think that those documents had information that certain people did not want coming to light, wouldn’t they…………..?
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
Paul67 –
Another fine piece.
We can only conclude there are influential bodies in Scotland that want to keep the country in the Dark Ages.
It’s so blatantly obvious what the agenda is.
Gents, FYI I contacted Humza Yousaf who is a Glasgow MSP and he is also a member of the Justice committee. I asked him him if he could get any info from the Police regarding the illicit chants that were reported to UEFA. I also asked him if the chants were illegal then why were there no arrests amd why the Club were not kept in the loop.
He did reply to me and true to his word he sent a letter to the StrathClyde Chief Constable Stephen House. Contents of his letter below.
If I get any reply I’ll post.
16 November 2011
Chief Constable Stephen House
Strathclyde Police Headquarters
173 Pitt Street
Glasgow
G2 4JS
Ref: Illicit Chanting at Celtic Vs Rennes Football Match 3rd November 2011
Dear Chief Constable House,
I write to you in regards to the match Celtic Vs Rennes on the 3rd of November in
Parkhead, Glasgow.
I note from recent press reports that Celtic football club have been reported to UEFA
for illicit chanting. A number of constituents have written to me asking for some
clarification surrounding this situation.
I understand this is a live investigation, however are you in a position to clarify if
Celtic Football Club were approached after the match in regards to the conduct of
some of the fans – if not why not? In addition, is there a reason why no arrests were
made at the time?
Finally, many fans have asked about the nature of the illicit chanting is Strathclyde
Police in a position to comment further on this?
As previously mentioned I understand this is a live investigation and therefore
appreciate the sensitivities involved, however any clarification that can be provided
would be much appreciated.
Yours Sincerely,
Humza Yousaf MSP
If this wasnt funny, it would be true! Or something similar to that…….
But seriously, can you really just delete data, then ‘make up’ your own new statistics?
Of course there would be more arrests at Celtic Park, you cant exactly go and arrest a stadium full of 50,000, (rangers fans) singing abuse at Irish/Catholics/Celtic Fans. But when they come to visit in smaller numbers, it becomes more possible.
People can ignore the BTP stats, or believe the new ones and forget that the other ones have ‘been deleted’. But we all know where the BNP hand out their leaflets and do their recruiting.
It has reached the point where justice, and even the recognition of crimes against certain people in this country, is becoming impossible. Its time to take this further and higher. I dont know how or where, but we are way beyond monty python sketch here. This is 1984, but the powers that be in Scotland are not as all powerful and controlling as they think they are. Surely there are people that they answer too.
I am way past wanting rangers fans charged and stopped, its time certain powerful and influential figures in Scotland were charged and stopped. No one is above the law, including the law themselves……
clanmalirtim at 12:03
Originally from Magherafelt meself but had been in Belfast for about 9 years before moving out to the suburbs (Glengormley).
Mort
brilliant paul67, keep a them
Afternoon Paul,
Great lead, keep telling the truth & providing the stats, they dont like that!
on another note, John Barnes being interviewed on BBC News. Picture they are using is him wearing his Celtic tracksuit. I’d forgotten about those days!
Nurse…………
Paul67
Great article.
Mon the Hoops
Mort says:
18 November, 2011 at 12:13
Another good Doire man. You get over to many games?
angelfc67 at 12:14
Subtle eh. No doubt this is regarding the racism story that Sepp Blatter has got involved in. Picture association time, ask John Barnes about racism in football while showing him in a Celtic tracksuit.
The BBC would never do that intentionally surely!
Mort
Paul
Interesting AND informative, plus wonderful use of understatement.
Love it.
Well done again.
Football in India ? ——
Remember hearing a Radio interview with a man from Udinese . Talking about Udinese’s 50 full time scouts /talking about Udinese’s 500 plus world wide contacts. , talking about the 112 million euros Udinese have made from finding players and selling them on.
Man from Udinese said that large numbers play football in India . Some of them play in professional leagues etc but as yet Udinese have not seen anyone in India who was even remotely close to being good enough . —— He did add -maybe in 20 years.
Celtic Remember Movember
Friday 18 November 2011
Bishop Tartaglia comments on Crown Office analysis of Sectarian Offences
Reacting to the publication of the Crown Office analysis, Bishop Philip Tartaglia, as President of the Communications Commission of the Bishops Conference of Scotland, said:
“Although it has taken five years and repeated requests and in spite of the fact that in the intervening period hundreds of Crown office documents have been destroyed, preventing a more complete and balanced analysis, this report does nonetheless make a useful contribution to the sectarianism debate.
Catholics will take little comfort from the fact that they were previously five times more likely to suffer a sectarian attack than anyone else and are now 4.5 times more likely. Since Catholics represent just 16% of Scotland’s population, the fact that they account for almost 60% of the victims of sectarian crime reflects poorly on modern Scotland and is an indicator of entrenched hostility on a worrying scale.
It remains the case that the overwhelming majority of sectarian incidents are not football related. Therefore, far more engagement is needed with the church in future by all public authorities committed to the eradication of religious intolerance. I restate the willingness and the readiness of our church officials to assist Strathclyde Police in their efforts to understand and monitor religiously aggravated behaviour.
Finally, the Catholic Church in Scotland condemns in the strongest possible terms any sectarian behaviour or criminality from any quarter whatever, as having no place in a civilised society.
ENDS
Peter Kearney
Director
Catholic Media Office
http://www.scmo.org
clanmalirtim at 12:16
Doire aye, but more of Tir Eoghain man.
When I no responsibilities, I’d have been over 9 or 10 times a year. We had a great wee supporters club in the town but when I moved to belfast for study, it sort of went downhill as no one else could be bothered doing anything. Nowadays with less disposable income I can only make 3 or 4.
That’ll go down even further with a baby on the way.
Will try to get as many in this season as possible.
Mort
****TKF Predictor****
For those taking part, remember to get your predictions in please.
Early KO tomorrow.
Additionally late tonight (circa 9pm) the Latest FULLY-UP-TO-DATE Table will be on the website!!! (i know, I know)
Anyone who cant wait that long however, drop me an email on the predictor address and i’ll send you a copy. Can be sent in pdf or excel formats.
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
bournesouprecipe at 12:19
And there was me thinking Movember was started by the Australians in 2004. That picture sure predates that.
Celtic FC, first again. :-)
Mort
Paul
It strikes me that the dates on which there are ‘clusters’ of arrests may also tie in with full moons.
Blue moons, even.
Sorry.
Hat, scarf, gloves and coat, please …
You think the Celtic away strip is bad?
ICT 0-3 Celtic
Huns 1-1 Saints
Hail! Hail!
Awe Naw
“Even North Korea”
Tell me that wasn’t in the original article!
Just having a quicj look at today’s article.
That’s excellent work Paul67.
Out of the box thinking.
Bet they never saw that coming :))
Mort,
Never thought of it that way. Yes it was about the racism story, surely they should have used a picture (of him supporting the anti racism campaign, which i’m sure they must have) instead of the picture they had.
Come to think of it, did he not claim he was sacked because of racism???
Was having a good day, now in a rage!!
Mort says:
18 November, 2011 at 12:19
Only get over about 3 or 4 times a year myself these days. Watch all the games on internet streams or ESPN. Not to many Celtic bars in south Belfast apart from the hatfield that is.
bournesouprecipe says:
18 November, 2011 at 12:22
That was a classic one, just before the bumblebee came out.
Paul67
The SNP and the Police seem to have assumed we Celtic fans are all idiots and they can make up whatever charges or parliament bills without question.
I would be interested to know your take on the amendment’s to the sectarian bill yesterday. The word ‘hatred’ ‘ was replaced with ‘malice and ill will’.
HH
Celtic Mac
haven´t been near it buddy
Hail Hail
Official figures
639 Religiously hate offences last year – up 10%
58% anti-Catholic
38% anti Protestant
At Football 33%
BUT
For the last 5 years the numbers have bumped between 600 and 700.
Interestingly incidents aimed at the police (i.e an offence conducted following an arrest is added to the figures as a similarly religious hate offence) stands at 42%
Over 60% involved drink
What does it tell us/ hell knows.
The First Minister has promised to publish his figures and has done so; and (possibly statistically insignificant) the historic likelihood of a Catholic to be subject to such a crime as opposed to a non-catholic (don’t know if that means Protestant or all other faiths) has dropped from 5-1 to 4.5 -1.
Draw your own inferences. Mine tend towards the positive view of the Scottish Governments efforts and a modicum of hope for the continued evolution of our species in Scotland.
I still think the Offensive Behaviour Bill is a nonsense but I will try and influence that outside of this forum.
Hail hail
Estadio
ASonOfDan say
“I would be interested to know your take on the amendment’s to the sectarian bill yesterday. The word ‘hatred’ ‘ was replaced with ‘malice and ill will’.”
It has been further amended:
delete ‘malice and ill will’ insert ‘not nice’