I loved the Newco statement from yesterday evening, it betrayed the reality that they’ve lost their nerve in the face of panic among fans and a complete lack of knowledge of what to do about History overtaking them.
They cited that the SPFL had a conference call on the subject of the Court of Session Oldco EBT ruling, but quickly got onto the subject that “our Club’s (sic.) history, including its many successes, is beyond debate”.
Those of us who supported another team during the EBT decade know well that history is beyond debate. We paid money to see those competitions and there will be no denying what happened.
At a stroke Newco took a debate, which was hitherto the exclusive domain of fan comment and the occasional journalist repeating the words of well-paid Newco and Ladbrokes SPFL PR team, that there was “no appetite” for title stripping, and made it a subject football people could legitimately be drawn on. In short, they made Rangers historical successes THE debate.
I’ve spoken to Celtic on various potential public statement matters over the years. They don’t always get it right, but they know when to shut their mouth and win support for their objectives, at the cost of taking flak for not making grandstanding public comments.
Tommo Blog.
While many paid to inform us were repeating paid PR as news, Channel 4’s Alex Thomson had no qualms calling-out the cheats in his blog yesterday: Rangers cheated at football: the fraudulent silverware must go. And that was just the blog title.
Oh Mr Black! The Rangers v HMRC First Tier Tribunal was held in private, with witness names given anonymity in the written report. Mr Black, the name of a key figure at Rangers, who signed and sold up to 400 footballers, and, I guess, took a senior role from late 1988 until 6 May 2011, provided damning evidence against the former football club at the Tribunal.
Thomson writes:
“Why did this powerful but busy character introduce a scheme of wholesale – and now proven to be unlawful – avoidance of NI and income tax?
Why – so the club could gain advantage on the pitch, of course: sporting advantage. By attracting and keeping players they otherwise could not afford. How do we know?
Because the powerful but talkative “Mr Black” was good enough to spill the beans to the Tax Tribunal: “Mr Black did not consider the Trust as a means of tax avoidance, but rather as a means of retaining and rewarding loyal employees. So far as Rangers was concerned it enabled the Club to attract players who would not otherwise have been obtainable.”
Sporting advantage.”
““Mr Black” didn’t see it as a tax wheeze at all, he said, but a football wheeze. Sadly for him if you’re now found to have been cheating the taxman you’re also cheating football – so now his unfortunate admission is a smoking gun
There is more: “As for Mr Black, he denied that the scheme was for tax avoidance in cross-examination, though he went on to describe the scheme as ‘a method of us acquiring, especially football wise, better players in a more cost effective manner than we would be able to do so’; that the club had been ‘very ambitious at that time’; and ‘it was seen as a correct and proper way for us to proceed’; that Rangers ‘have been very successful, because we’ve been able to attract players of a certain standard that, perhaps, we may not have been able to otherwise’.”
One more time: “especially football wise better players in a more cost effective manner”. Sporting. Advantage.”
“It is time Campbell Ogilvie explained his conduct – the man who played a part in the tax avoidance and personally benefited before going on to be SFA President.
It is time Sir David Murray – the conductor of this disastrous orchestration, by overseeing EBTs at Rangers – is similarly held to account for what he did and now, why Rangers did it for advantage on the field: cheating.
Above all, it is time the SPFL members came out from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen and beyond to denounce cheating as cheating and take action as fans from Kelso to Thurso are begging them to do.
All the titles and silverware from all the years Rangers cheated at football, as they cheated at tax, must be null and void and wiped from the record.
Let nobody try and tell me it isn’t the same club – I have always said it is and now Rangers have to take the consequence of that reality right on the chin.
Turnbull Hutton RIP – how your godforsaken Scottish game needs you now.”
‘Mr Black’ really has dropped Sir David Murray in it. I hope he stays away from Charlotte Square. This situation reminds me of that scene from Blazing Saddles, where the sheriff turns his gun on himself. Alerts in advance for the use of racial pejoratives, appropriate for the environment, in this clip:
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GLASSTWOTHIRDSFULL on 10TH NOVEMBER 2015 3:43 PM
Praecepta 3:31
I see what you are saying, but their argument is their titles were won “on the field” so should not be stripped because of things that happened off the field.
Drugs cheats could use the same argument.
Since nobody seems to have an issue with stripping drugs cheats of their medals and titles, why should it be any different with Rangers?
You answer your own question. Because THEY are THEM. No other reason is necessary.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/tommo-fraudulent-silverware-must-go-blazing-saddles-comes-to-scottish-football/comment-page-4/#comment-2716397
If Celtic were found guilty of the crimes that mob has committed and are accused of, weedabin’ shut down immediately! No debate, no mercy.
FACT.
Thank goodness we run a tight ship!
Aye, aye, Cap’n.
One thing that always strikes me in tragic situations is the need for some sort of closure. To have the truth out no matter how unpalatable helps victims put some sort of end to their difficult situation and allows them to try and move on.Newco’s statement yesterday was all about moving forward.Scottish football has had a terrible time of it and now it’s time to put it all behind us.No chance! There needs to be closure.The only way football in this country can seriously move on is if there is a full and transparent investigation into all conduct with the possibility of punitive measures where appropriate.We want closure not the continuation of an open wound.
theglasgowcelticway on 10th November 2015 4:27 pm
More disclosure, not closure needed.
I might be wrong, but I do not honestly think the the SFA or anyone else in football have the haw maw for meaningful action.
Owen
Well, I did contact the club directly, and linked the offending article, to me anyway, so I take it you’re not referring to me as regards ‘casting aspersions’.
It is now official and proven that Rangers defrauded Scottish football to unprecedented levels during the EBT years. There is no money old or new that can be confiscated as means of any financial punishment. The only recourse is for their 21 trophies obtained by illegal means rescinded.
I suspect the SFA will try and wriggle out of this by procrastinating indefinitely. They are of course, as we all know, the same peepil same mentality, same scourge, same rangers pension plan. For this recourse to be implemented will need the will of the other football clubs and fans like it did in 2012. Don’t expect Celtic “wait and see what way the wind blows” to make any moves or official statements regarding this until “others” do so for them just like they did in 2012 with parachuting sevco into the SPL.
What could the SFA possibly do here? They are in it up to their brass necks!!
Beatboy
Meant no offence to any one bad choice of words on my part.
My point was that the SLO HAS stated Celtic’s position, if it has changed since January no one has said so before now.
Personally I have no problem with Celtic not issuing statements left, right and centre as we would become the story not whatever the latest hun/SFA/SPFL debacle is.
Things running bout my head
So they run ebt’s on an industrial scale
doin the taxman and her majesty out of millions,very undignified.
so that means they were doing the tax man outa tax for 10 years
that means their accounts were wrong for the last 10 years,
each year incorrect accounts building on the next years incorrect accounts.
and they get a licence each year as a result of this error!
little wonder they perceive themselves as Scottish Football.
not any more.They died and their power is only in menace
menace that will be faced down
every time you hear ‘russian’ think hun.
have a good night Celts
HH
Philbhoy
Many thanks my friend. All well here.
Can’t help agreeing with Philbhoy that had it been us that had committed the crimes and cheating practically all of this great wee country would have been shouting from the rooftops about how we should be kicked out of football forever and imprisoned and flogged and fined and tied to the stake and burned and stoned. Ok, maybe Philbhoy didn’t say all of that, but I knew he was thinking it! Anyway, last few hours in Barbados (insert opposite symbol for smiley) back to reality and horrendous weather, I believe. Just to get me used to it I’ve just felt some drops of rain as I lie by the pool. May have to move to the bar.
Celtic PLC will only act if, Celtic fans hold a financial gun to the PLC boards head.
Aberdeen should have won the treble in 1990.
Scotsport studio…December 1989…weeks after Mo scored against us at ibrokes in the last minute….
Jim White – “So, Maurice…did R*ngers offer you more money than Celtic…is that why you signed for them?”
Judas – “No Jim, they both offered me the same deal…it’s just that, I had a £150,000 tax bill hanging over me from Nantes. Celtic couldn’t look at it but, R*ngers fixed it for me.”
1989??????….ffs!
Btw…thanks for all the kind posts for my wife’s mum – Thank You All.
Away back to praying, bye.
Owen
OK, mate, no problem.
Hail Hail!
I was getting angry at listening to ex players and “journalists” trying to argue against rangers (in liquidation) being stripped of the trophies they cheated their way to on shortbread last night
And then it dawned on me that they can talk out their backside all they like, but it’s not for them to dictate what happens next on this issue.
As Jock Stein once said “football without fans is nothing”. Take us fans away and there is nobody creating an atmosphere at matches, no readership for newspapers, and no wages for players
Take Paul lambert away and there is always a David Hannah, take Stuart McCall away and there’s a terry hurlock, take Chris Sutton away and there’s a tommy Johnson, take Richard Wilson away and there’s a foaming mouthed Matthew Lindsay or a lamb gorging Keith Jackson etc but football always continues
But without fans football comes to a stop.
It’s our game, we invested the money and time in a bent sport. It’s our right to dictate what happens next, we pay for it.
Sutton, lambert, Lindsay, Wilson, Jackson, McCall etc – none of them would have had a career or income but for us paying for season tickets, merchandise, TV subscriptions, newspapers, generating internet hits etc
So let these clowns say what they want, their opinion might be spun out to suit an agenda, but it’s all going to be futile.
It’s the fans whose opinion counts on this one and no amount of skewed media coverage, level 5 pr briefings etc can change that
I’ve tried to let some time elapse to take in the full effect of the CoS decision.
I felt we should keep our powder dry until the right moment. Knee jerk reactions would do us no good. Screaming about their cheating and calls for trophy stripping etc., although well justified, I felt, would only add to the smokescreens and red herrings that would inevitably be bandied about by our scummy media and all the sycophants and soup takers.
I still have the feeling that we should leave this to those who have led us and advised us in these matters thus far. We should strive to find the BEST way to deal with the injustices and cheating. A concerted effort rather than fragmented sniping steered by those with the best contacts and knowledge who have led us so well.
I hope we achieve this. But, there’s always a but………………..
the RFC statement makes me so angry that I feel it’s a game changer.
Removal of honours from their record, whilst giving some sort of satisfaction, would imo be almost irrelevant now.
Having regard to the volume of cheating and deceit and the complicity of our games so called regulators the outcomes should be…..
RFC or whatever the hell they are called should be EXCLUDED from our sport. It cannot operate with any credibility with this so called club as a member. Only their expulsion makes any sense whatsoever. Anything else would be a fudge.
The governing body needs to be dissolved and a new one put in place. Appropriate punishments for those who connived will come a bit further down the line. But i just feel so strongly that the only way to properly deal with the errant club is EXPULSION!!!
The IOC not hanging about,any cheats will have medals stripped,good timing me thinks
Bobby,Taverna bar staff have been complaining that its been quiet,now I know why…….:-0
Tgbs,
Good point.
And aside from the fans and in a more official sense, it’s not for the ex pros to decide.
HH
Boumsong was directly quoted in 2012 as saying he smelt a rat with the EBTs and wasn’t going to sign for rangers (in liquidation) on that basis
But his agent assured him it was all in order so he signed
Strange that even a Frenchman could see the thing wasn’t right yet the homegrown Hun trumpets like dodds McCann Stevie dunderheid Thompson who, as Uk citizens, should have known about PAYE tax rules, kept their mouth shut and trousered the cash without question
As caller Terry said on Cowan and Cosgrove on Saturday………………………………………………………………..
Every one of the Rangers 11 on Helicopter Sunday had an EBT.
No sporting advantage my arse.
The Sevco statement means nothing as they’re a new club. Rangers were liquidated. This is the one issue that needs to be sorted out before it destroys the game in Scotland.
cv
Speaking to Hun (very slowly) about his previous teams cheating.
“If everything was legal and above board why did they have side letters” blank stare.
MM
Simpson
Connelly
McGrain Mc Neill Gemmell
Murdoch. Auld
Jinky Dalglish McBride Larsson
Subs Lubo Lennox McStay(p)
HH
To win the polo Doyle Boyd Burns Peter pointer Anton x2.8
Guess who said this :
“The worst thing ever to happen was Rangers getting demoted. It took the competition away and made Scottish football a mockery,” he said.
“Scottish football is suffering without Rangers playing against Celtic.
“I’ll guarantee if Rangers came up, you’d get a lot better standard of player coming to this country to play.”
There will not be a polo shirt for the winner 0:-)
Cheerio for now,
JJ
So with today’s news that DK is trying to remove MAs voting rights from Rangers Retail one of the denizens of Sevco Media asks if DK is trying to goad MA into putting them into admin. Making MA the bogeyman.
I think DKs been rumbled by his own support. Finally.
Jjhs
Drat
Was it Peter the pointer??
HH
As Celtic shareholders would there be a case to sue the SFA for failing to adhere to their governance requirements and thereby depriving Celtic of European revenue and us of dividend?
Jungle Jim HS
Paul Lambert?
Who’s Kenny McIntyre ?
Philbhoy /EDB
I have a 50″ Samsung TV for sale.
Selling for £50. Only 3 months old, exc condition except the volume control on the remote is broken, so not perfect, but at £50 ye canny turn it doon ………….:-))
Stranger and Stranger the Rangers on STV News tonight with there newly recruited scout saying that they will be scouring Scotland for the best young talent.Obviously they dont think they are going to run out of money anytime soon.They may be spending big money and carrying big debt but they must be getting funding from some where ? H.H.
Just sign it. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/justice-for-football
Arrest made over Bloody Sunday
Some Lyrics by Hank Williams
Your Cheatin’ Club.
Your cheatin’ club
Will make you blue
You’ll cry and cry
The whole night through
And sleep won’t come
No matter what you do
Your cheatin’ club
Will make you blue.
When tears come down
Like falling rain
You’ll toss around and call their name
You’ll walk the floor
Till morning too
Your cheatin’ club will make you blue.
Thinking about it.
Not only were they running these, now established, illegal use of EBT’s, they still managed to overspend and ultimately fall to liquidation whilst let’s face it, running up a meagre trophy haul.
How the F are the NEW lot EVER going to live within their means when the OLD lot are at the helm?
Peter Grant Effortlessy moving to centre back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVVj62aX2sQ
TnT
What you need is a smart remote app. Also handy when your at your mates house ;-)
Robinbhoy
Signed and shared to family and friends.
Hope everyone on CQN signs then shares the petition.
HH