In his Q&A session with the Daily Record yesterday, outgoing SPFL chairman, Ralph Topping touched on the subject of who knew what when, regarding Rangers slide into liquidation saying:
“There wasn’t one single person ever who envisaged this case happening. You tell me who pointed out that this was going to happen – did you?
“The biggest assumption about the set-up in the SPL would be that you would have Rangers and Celtic playing in it in perpetuity – nobody thought that those two bastions of football would ever be involved in anything like this and nobody flagged it up.”
Well, in October 2011 I knew. This CQN article from 27 October 2011 notes in very specific detail Rangers were going to liquidate, a phoenix would be created which wanted direct access to the SPL (the top flight at that time). I got the timing wrong, predicting the phoenix would take place during the season, but to be fair, it later became clear this was Craig Whyte’s plan at the time.
Ralph Topping’s SPL knew too. Rangers alerted them to the situation that very month. The SPL spend November, December and January preparing the ground for Rangers administration and liquidation, a period during which a new TV deal was signed.
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Brendan is so on it.
I mean who needs information?
The Boxing Gloves are off, it isnae easy playing Pool with BG man.
It is the best Times when you do so.
Magical
CELTIC
CELTIC
WoW
WoW
The wee guy respected the track…. it is pretty good.
Love listening to him.
The wee guy.
1 weekend is bad enough. 2 is horrendous.
Please Please remember. I cannae wait to see My wee Laddie as he means So much to moi.
Kouassi Eboue is getting the thumbs up. Good.
Wirey but looks to me to be as Hard as Nails.
I never seen Davie Hay play, unfortunately.
Celtic is doing Good.
If Celtic Expose the SFA they expose UEFA.
;))
This is Massive.
With compliments to the facing book.
“Brendan Rodgers is here for Terry Munro”
HH. Allwillberevealedsooncsc.
The Peepil are stupid, remarkably so.
HH.
Good morning CQN from a broken clouded, cool but dry at the moment East Devon.
Watched the game on Celtic TV yesterday, only two glitches, good commentary.
Hail! Hail!
Morning Bhoys from a dry at the moment Central Scotland.Well this is a big week for Celtic Wednesday nights game is huge and could very well shape our season one way or another. H.H.
THELURKINTIM
Sorry,mate. My phone gave me a surprise birthday present. Went into lockdown,only way I could retrieve it-two days later!-was to reset it.
Lost all the info on it,believe me a back-up is far from complete.
12 photos was all it retained. And none older than a month.
Following up from the posts I made last night I thought it was worth pointing this out (chairbhoy states the obvious I know but..)
At the time, 6th March 2012, it was announced that the SPL would look into the DOS,EBT,Side Contracts Issue, I like many others asked why?
There were many potential Breaches of Statutory and Football rules covering various bodies and including Matches and Competitions where the players on dual contracts had taken part in, that did not come under the auspices of the SPL.
Now earlier that week when Hugh Adams alleged that the dual contracts had been running since mid nineties, the SFA stated they were aware of the allegations and would look into them.
(So that was; pre DOS contracts, the DOS/WTC issues which were “crystallised” and the EBT allegations. They already had the original LNS “independent” Inquiry into Rangers up and running.)
Mr Adams said the Rangers Board knew about these issues. The SFA had promised to look into these serious (and now mostly confirmed)* allegations.
Yet it never did, they left it to the SPL who we suspected then and now know did not have the wide ranging powers to thoroughly investigate this. (that was even if we believed they had a will to thoroughly investigate – which we now know they didn’t)**
Now it was said by The SFA CEO that their President was “hugely conflicted”. Having been with Rangers through the time in question until 2005 and of course having an EBT himself.
Yet instead of the SFA President standing down and the SFA investigating as they promised, Campbell Ogilvie stayed in Power and the issue was left to the SPL – who we now know made a (deliberate) hash of it.
Who at the SFA was involved in that decision?
In short the SFA had all the mechanisms; an inquiry, the disciplinary tribunal, the appeals tribunal and the rules and regulations and powers of sanction necessary.
They could look at multiple aspects of of Rangers Matches during the period in question. Rangers played against SPL and SFL opponents, they played in SFA and UEFA Competitions. The SFA have oversight over all of this, including the licence to play UEFA competitions.
The decision by the SFA not to investigate as they promised looks very negligent and when you consider the decision was made with a “heavily conflicted” President in Charge makes it worse.
*Some of it was in the Public Domain at the time, though there has been a continuing stream from that time to this shedding more light. From Documentaries like “the men who sold the jerseys” through to the recent Craig Whyte and Supreme Court Cases.
**No Appetite? At the time it was announced the DOS scheme was in the SPL remit and there was talk of stripping 7 titles.
Hail Hail
Hope that bhoy is alright that the fascist’s tried to murder yesterday in the ambush in Sunderland. These thugs are professional agitators and some Celts fell in to their trap. I hope those horrible huns get what they deserve.
Johnjames up with one of his better articles this morning.
https://johnjamessite.com
The article, don’t what to make of this geezer but this article seems bangs on..
CHAIRBHOY
The more you look at it the worse it gets:((
The myth of ” A Strong Rangers” at any cost has destroyed the game and I think even going back as far as the MoJo debacle their desperation to put Timmy in his place led to a complete disregard for the rules and all other clubs.
HH
Great result for the lads yesterday onwards and up no negativity.
https://youtu.be/VuAZTWGfQTs
ABURNTOUTCASE @ 8:53 AM,
STARRY PLOUGH @ 9:07 AM,
In light of what I just wrote this is interesting. You also have to ask why the heavily conflicted are giving evidence. Yet no evidence was taken from the main whistle blower and ex-Rangers Director, Hugh Adams.
When the LNS Commission was set up, Mr. Ogilvie was the only individual to give evidence in person. He led no evidence in regard to his involvement in the unlawful DOS/VSS artifice.
The below Article by Tom English touches on it, it is basically when Stewart Regan announced the SFA would investigate the side contract issue the DOS & EBTs et al.
Notice how he states not only do the SFA have the powers needed but would widen the Investigation if necessary.
Of course none of this happened.
Rangers administration: ogilvie out of ibrox probe
TOM ENGLISH
Published: 05:16
Sunday 04 March 2012
STEWART Regan, chief executive of the SFA, has confirmed that Campbell Ogilvie, the president of the association, will play no active part in their investigation into alleged secret, untaxed payments by way of reputed hidden contracts at Rangers going back a decade and more.
Ogilvie was the Ibrox secretary throughout the period in question and though he sits on the board at Hampden and would normally be involved in all such business, he will be excluded when the SFA begins their examination.
“Campbell won’t play any part in any meeting, discussion or conclusion on any activities surrounding Rangers,” said Regan on Friday. “I think it’s pretty obvious that he’s heavily conflicted. We’ve been aware of the issue for a while. We’ve been aware that people have views and believe that pieces of evidence exist. What we’re trying to do at the moment is get hold of as much information as we can.
“The board will meet to discuss it within a week or maybe slightly longer. Very, very quickly the board will get together to consider the facts. This will be the Scottish FA’s main board. There are seven people on the board, but if you exclude Campbell it’s six. He’s not going to be able to take part.”
On Friday, former Ibrox director Hugh Adam claimed that secret payments were being made to Rangers players as far back as the mid-1990s. Employee benefit trusts (EBTs) were believed to have come into vogue at Ibrox in 2001 but Adam suggests they might have been in operation even earlier than that, a fact that has exercised the SFA and will, no doubt, have Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs looking on with interest at the outcome of the association’s investigation. HMRC have already fought an epic battle with Rangers over their use of EBTs, the findings of which are imminent. If the verdict goes against the club, they could be looking at a tax bill of around £49m.
It has been rumoured for some time that many Rangers players in the years from 2001 to 2010 operated with two contracts, one declared to the tax man and to the SFA and the other held privately. If Adam is right – and a tabloid newspaper claimed last week to have seen one of these redacted contracts – then the ramifications for Rangers could be immense. Secret contracts are in direct contravention of the SFA articles of association and would have rendered all players holding such a contract ineligible to play for their club.
“Without having any specialist knowledge, I’m pretty sure [that EBTs were being used in the mid-1990s],” Adam told the Daily Mail. “There was a lot of that going on at the time. You knew it was cheating but some of them (his fellow directors) not only hoped, but believed, it was above board… They were doing things they shouldn’t have been doing… They were getting away with it but nobody thought they’d get away with it for ever… You could dodge your taxes that way.”
Adam, now 86, was removed from the Rangers board by Sir David Murray in 2002. Adam was a vocal critic of Murray’s financial stewardship of the club and was forced out after a 30-year association with Rangers. Since speaking out on Friday, Adam has been criticised on supporters’ websites. He has been accused of merely having an axe to grind with Murray while his recollection of events has also been called into question given that it is believed that EBTs only came into force at Ibrox in 2001, not years earlier as he seems to suggest.
Sources said last night that the EBTs were not Ogilvie’s domain at Rangers and that they were handled instead by the Murray Group. Indeed, it is at Murray’s door that Adam lays the responsibility for whatever fallout comes from the club’s use of the controversial trusts.
The SFA have taken Adam’s words extremely seriously. “It is one director’s take on things but as a board we have to examine it,” said Regan. Asked what the possible punishment might be if Rangers were found to be in breach of the regulations, the chief executive said it could be anything from Armageddon to a slap on the wrist. “If you look at our articles of association it shows a range of powers that the judicial panel has. What will happen is that the matter will go to the Scottish FA main board and will then pass through to the judicial panel. There’s a whole range of things from suspension and termination of membership at the extreme end to fines and ejection from Scottish Cup competition or other such penalties the panel deem appropriate.”
Regan did not rule out a more wide-ranging inquiry into the alleged double contracts saga. “That will depend on the board’s view of the facts and what information is there. The situation is changing daily and new information is emerging all the time. We’ve got our hands on certain pieces of information and we’re exploring it and we’re asking for further information. By the time the board meets we will have a fuller picture and if it’s the board’s opinion that they want a fuller investigation then that will be an option. If they feel they have enough facts to draw some conclusions then that will be their decision.”
In the next week or so, the SFA’s independent inquiry into Craig Whyte’s takeover of the club, headed by Lord Nimmo Smith, is due to report its findings. “The terms of reference cover primarily the Craig Whyte era but in digging into facts it has taken us into other areas, so it’s thrown up matters which are of interest to the committee. I’m there representing the board. We’ve got into the meat of what has been going on at Rangers now and the inquiry has gone in different directions, so I can’t really comment on any particular area of it. We call witnesses and speak to people. That’s what the inquiry has been doing. I’m not prepared to discuss who we’ve spoken to. People we think have got information that will be useful to the inquiry.
“The inquiry isn’t judge and jury. The process is one of investigation and presenting the facts. The board will consider the facts and if the board feels that the facts are compelling they will pass that to the compliance officer and it will go through the normal disciplinary process.”
Asked about the perception that the SFA will not impose the maximum penalty on Rangers – termination of membership – even if they are found to be in serious contravention of their articles of association, Regan said: “You’re asking me to make comment before the inquiry is concluded. That’s inappropriate.”
When contacted last week, UEFA declined to comment on the happenings at Ibrox. “If you think about it,” said Regan, “would FIFA get involved in a UEFA matter before the actual body itself had been allowed to conclude their investigation? You have got to let the governing body go through the facts and establish conclusions. UEFA don’t run Scottish football, they run European football. They’ll only get involved here if they feel that something has happened that hasn’t been addressed and it impacts on their competitions. The new UEFA licence will be considered on or around 31 March and at that stage the matter will clearly be of interest to them. They are aware of what is going on at the club, though.”
BMCUWP,
Know how u feel….had to hard reset my phone….and lost a load of photos….because of ads on here….lesson learned….backup….and yeah, I emailed P67 in anger at the time….am sure a kind soul looking in will accommodate me ;-))
H.H.
Tried to watch the game on Celtic TV. In the first half in particular, the stream was constantly buffering. The alternative stream offered worked well except that it was always blur. Is this normal for live broadcast matches?
STARRY PLOUGH @ 9:18 AM,
Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing but many suspected the “fix” was in at the time. It really is woeful.
Yes, Strong Rangers?! I think it’s ironic, in the light of people moaning about a lack of Competition, that at the time when Hugh Adams says this was going on mid 90s Rangers were at their peak.
They were prepared to go to any lengths (including the illicit and illegal) to dominate Scottish Football. Yet they did so from a position of Strength, were they trying to obliterate us as some suggest… Le petite merde affair sure indicates it does.
Hail Hail
CHAIRBHOY
Ogil Cambvily is the head of the snake and always was, Regan is his placeman in my opinion.
Paul Larkins films cast an interesting light on the idea that they were in fact trying to obliterate us.
I had a great friend once who used to say ” the time is now, the place is here”
Scottish Football must be cleaned up or we just accept this sham for the benefit of one club is all we have as a national game as anyone who thinks the cheating has stopped is really really kidding themselves on.
As I posted last week, the fight has just begun and Celtic need to let us know they’re up for it. To leave it to the fans in my opinion is to abdicate responsibility at the highest level.
Much as though I enjoyed last season now that we have the SC decision there will be no real joy in watching our team until this corruption is dealt with, it’s like a rat gnawing away inside your stomach:((
HH
It’s the ither crafty connivances…like cozy sidebars an’ side letters..
……….. where the Bowling Klub Britherhood are involved needs blown up – but how?
What’s required is an outsider with appropriate “appetite” to get his teeth into how this has come about……AT might be the best bet.
Getting people ( beyond ourselves to care about the issue is the biggest hurdle. If we achieve that we have a better chance of undermining their last gasp ” Move On ” mantra.
STARRY PLOUGH @ 9:47 AM,
Will have to take the time to watch Paul Larkin’s films.
As regards the cheating, from that TE article I’m intrigued by the “bold” below. Adams seems to suggest something larger afoot, as you say, what’s still going on?
Remember allegations were made into transfer dealings and ex-players, managers etc.
Makes you wonder…
“Without having any specialist knowledge, I’m pretty sure [that EBTs were being used in the mid-1990s],” Adam told the Daily Mail. “There was a lot of that going on at the time. You knew it was cheating but some of them (his fellow directors) not only hoped, but believed, it was above board… They were doing things they shouldn’t have been doing… They were getting away with it but nobody thought they’d get away with it for ever… You could dodge your taxes that way.”
That question to the QC at the bottom of the SPFL statement regarding the end of NewCo’s liabilities to Oldco when the liquidation process is finished is intriguing. Does someone want this part of the 5WA to disappear?
Interesting there’s no answer to the question.
As for the Clubs leading the calls for a full review, not discounting Rangers/Sevco sanctions – definitely.
A Judicial Review of why the SFA didn’t follow up on it’s investigation would be interesting. You could intimate, without alleging any Breaches, the “head of the snake” should have been cut off.
Hail Hail
It’s interesting that others are going back to what Hugh Adam had to say about Rangers EBTs and other tax avoidance schemes.
With respect to DOS, we have court evidence that Rangers admitted this was a liability prior to the sale of the club. Yet Doncaster gives his opinion this week that LNS dealt with this despite no mention of DOS in the LNS report. The follow up question should have been – where is it Mr Doncaster? Can you read that part out?
For Topping and others on the SPFL to say that they have employed a top QC to defend their position and be unable to answer the first testing question with no ability to sound convincing or ability to reference facts to back this up … Is again shocking.
I have heard others who seem to know what they are talking about say that there is no issue prior to DOS. However, I go back to what Hugh Adam had to say and also to a story regarding Andy Goram. Goram was at court for a driving offence. His salary was given as something so low I remember it raised eyebrows at the time.
Starry – agreed.
There does need to be leadership from the Club on this or not enough “heart” will be in the fight.
The case has been proved, the rationale is self evident.
Custody of Club comes with much responsibility. Scoddland has let us down grievously but we always suspected that was the case.
(Iknow…I know….) but, why no comment from Government???
No door-stepping of ministers? No BrownBroguedCommunications polling of outraged football supporters????
No “controversy” ????
No pointed questions to the scottish Great and the Good of the sporting and footballing world?
No appetite either?????
Hmmmm.
Our young fans need to be a wee bit more cute and street wise to clowns like Robinson, ffs, if he’s telling you where he is? Then that’s where you don’t go, your walking into a set up, he will be mob handed with his Ultras, I hope the young lad comes through his beating up, but ffs? What the hell where they thinking? Use the heed, get well soon kid.
http://www.scotzine.com/2017/07/celtic-supporters-attacked-by-english-fascist-thugs-one-bhoy-seriously-injured/
“Some have been thought brave because they were afraid to run away.”
Thomas Fuller
http://www.scotzine.com/2017/07/aberdeen-fans-first-to-accept-the-doncaster-challenge/
BANKIEBHOY1
The problem is and always was that “The Rangers Tax Case” goes way beyond football and in to the very heart of “polite Scottish society”
Football has always had a brown envelop culture I believe and EBT’s were just the logical conclusion of this culture.
The fact that the Southsiders Dodgers were up to the jug ears in it is of no surprise to anyone especially on here.
” There’s an air of Protestant Supremacy about the place”
IS there Walter aye and does that air stink of cheating and corruption of course it does aye, your forefathers were happy to betray their own for the shillings of Kings and Queens of England, you know it and we most certainly know it!
I’ve taken hope from the posts of Auldheid, TWC and BRTH the past weeks that right will triumph and as a natural optimist I’m clinging tae it:))
HH
STARRY PLOUGH on 30TH JULY 2017 10:32 AM
‘your forefathers were happy to betray their own for the shillings of Kings and Queens of England, you know it and we most certainly know it!’
###
It’s maybe worth remembering that things started to go wrong for the huns when control of their banking moved from Scotland to England and when Ipox was raided by the City of London Police.
If it were not for those two events things would probably have turned out very differently.
So spare us the halfwitted nationalism.
TONYDONNELLY67 on 30TH JULY 2017 10:21 AM
Agreed. They were very naive. Hope the kid makes a speedy recovery.
ERNIE LYNCH
Thanks Ernie always good to know you’ve got my back and I’m honoured you read my posts…
I would love to be as educated as you obviously are..
BANKIEBHOY1 on 30TH JULY 2017 10:16 AM
“(Iknow…I know….) but, why no comment from Government???”
*******************
Not always been as reticent on this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17067135
Here we go
Scotsman have Chelski in for Dembele
Not Moussa but wee Karamoko
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/rumour-mill-chelsea-target-karamoko-dembele-hearts-demand-cathro-s-head-1-4517556
STARRY PLOUGH on 30TH JULY 2017 10:48 AM
You don’t have to be particularly well educated to know about the two events I referred to.
If it weren’t for the involvement of English based organisations things would have been very different for the huns.
ERNIE LYNCH
The Aloof point misser speaks again, I have nothing against the English, in fact I have nothing against the Scottish, I do have however a wee theory that deep down the huns know themselves to be traitors to their own..
Nationalism of any kind holds no interest for me and having left Scotland 28 years ago Celtic are my only connection back “home”
Perhaps my point wasn’t clear but it wasn’t from any nationalist pint of view, that’s your wee furry pet and I know you treasure it..
HH