Shakhter Karagandy covered 5k more ground than Celtic last night, 500m per outfield player. That’s 5.5m per minute, per player, or an extra meter every 10 seconds or so. That kind of advantage means that when the ball breaks loose in and around the danger area, the more active team are in space – which happened at both goals.
Conversely, when Celtic were in advanced positions Shakhter players were there in numbers. The difference was not caused by exceptional exertion by Shakhter, in their match with Maribor last night, Viktoria Plzen covered 11k more than Celtic, or a clear 2 meters every 10 seconds per outfield player.
Despite enjoying the vast majority of possession the Celtic players were lacking in movement and ideas. Being short of ideas is one thing but lack of movement is altogether unacceptable. We have to prepare fitness levels ahead of the second leg meticulously; Inverness on Saturday is only relevant for those who need game time ahead of Wednesday.
The Mouhokolo-van Dijk novice partnership was a surprise; a lot of faith was shown in players few of us know much about. Could we have held Kelvin for another few weeks? Would it have been less of a risk to play Ambrose and/or Mulgrew in defence? Yes to both, I suspect.
We learned Georgios is not a striker in 2009. He is one of our most effective players when away from home but not as a striker. Anthony Stokes is a striker but his style is just as unsuited to the formation we played last night as Georgios’. We seemed to pick a team to combat Shakhter’s strengths which didn’t play to our own.
I’m not convinced signing a player one week before an important game is an ideal preparation but taking the money early for Hooper, weeks before Amido Balde (or anyone else) has settled and considered a viable starter, is a calculated risk which is now in sharp focus.
We should also show some respect to Shakhter. The club are miles out of their depth at this stage of European football but they left with all the credit. After the game, manager Kumykov played down his chances, “we are not the favourites”. He’s a clever man who knows what he is doing.
It is possible Celtic will play as badly next week but it’s more likely that we will put on a vastly better performance. Between now and then we have plenty of opportunity to wallow in an embarrassing defeat, so knock yourself out, but I’ll hold fire until the tie is decided, which I expect to be in Celtic’s favour. Bring it on.
You got to love European football.
Penalty kick practice, please……
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ekbhoy
Agree – any Ian Black Association is a bad association! Lol!!
Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar
15:42 on
21 August, 2013
the battered bunnet
14:00 on 21 August, 2013
If Shakter are only half as lucky in the return leg as they were last night, we’ll need to score 4 to progress.
That makes the team line up a straightforward case of playing…
…Sammi on the right, Derk on the left, and Amido point man, supported by Commons in the hole, with Watt and Stokes either side of him.
Tally ho!
————
Yep I’d go with that.
I was still on holiday when Derk made his debut against Ross County but by all accounts he looked a threat every time he got the ball.
Who can forget Sammi’s debut at Kilmarnock where he cut in from the right to curl the ball in with his left foot?
Play Sammi on the right, Derk on the left, Balde up front and Commons behind him.
Celtic to win in 90 minutes.
——————————–
Whit aboot young James F ? Left back ? Neil has to play him if we are to get 5m
from Spurs :)
THis ram’s blood story is just another attempt to pull the wool over our eyes.
Zheng ZHi goes to the doctor and says’ Doctor, doctor I think I’m an island in the Medterranean’
‘For goodness sake, don’t be Sicily’.
Twice last night I watched Van Dijk go up to make a defensive header against an opponent. He didn’t just win the header, he calmly picked out a team mate to head it to. This bhoy is a player.
Black Magic
–
The lamb wiz led tae the slaughter fir the second time that day
The overhyped, overpaid player’s couldnae find a way
Passin wiz incidental, as the game just passed them by
Awe that sleep oan the aeroplane had left them feelin dry
–
The only drink available wiz some blood fae the lamb
The overhyped, overpaid player’s refused tae take a dram
Scorin wiz incidental, as they had left their shootin boots
Under the bed oan the aeroplane, beside the parachutes
–
They also firgoat their tactics, the book left oan the plane
Spellbound in the dugout, circled wae bloodstain
They used some kind of magic, some say they cast a spell
Put a trance on awe the players, that naedae could dispel
Last night was as close to a European tie in Eastern Europe pre 1990’s as you will ever get in the CL or EL. They beat us in their midden because they knew the ground and had that unknown feel about them.
We will destroy this mob at Celtic Park for the following reasons.
It’s our ground
We will have the fans behind us.
We are playing on a proper surface
We are a better team than them
They are no longer an unknown quantity
They won’t travel well
Tiredness will be a factor in their team (they won;t be able to chase us around for 90 mins after the long journey and time difference)
We have time to fix what went wrong in the first leg
Neil Lennon knows which personnel will be required to dispatch this team.
They won’t be allowed to slauughter a sheep on our pitch.
I can’t understand the panic. We certainly need new players for the season and for a CL or EL assault but we will beat this team with the players we have at our disposal.
I am not even worried one bit about that.
LB
”
Sure we didn’t give them enough resources to climb Everest.
That is no excuse for failing to conquer Ben Lomond.”
Haha completely agree.
While many will predictably blame the board for the failure to sign a striker so far (I think everybody knows we could use one)
The current squad and coaches have no excuse. They all get paid 10x as much as the opposition and couldn’t even match them for effort.
Celtic had 3 strikers on the bench. Two of them are signings by our current manager.
You have to ask why he doesn’t have faith in Stokes or Balde. We paid fee’s for both of them.
Kojo
Is it Possible that Neil.. is Just .. well.. Not Really up tae this type of Joab?
OK, I know you’re trolling, Kojo, but…
Yesterday’s game –
Forrest, Commons, Sammi – 1st time as front 3 in 4-3-3
Brown, Ledley, Mulgrew – 1st time as CM together in 4-3-3
Mouyokolo, Van Dijk – as above, and first start together full stop
Mikael Lustig – had racked up 16 pts from 27 as RB in 4-3-3, make that 16 pts from 30 now, and an overall record of 66% pts from starts. Gutless.
Izzy – let’s face it, he put in some decent crosses but you can’t defend like that in any game, let alone the CL. What does he have to do to get dropped?
I’m not exactly enamoured with Lenny’s recent strategic decisions. Meh!
Last night Celtic were RAM, Shakhter CPU.
It is Obvious..
Tae Me… anyway..
That Neil,is still very much the Managerial Dilettante..
He needs a Loat mair Seasoning.. Afore he is Good Tae Go it ..
ALONE.
He needs an Advisor.. A Guy Whom he wull Listen To.
Fur it is a Lead Pipe Cinch..
That he disnae Listen tae Kojo!
And.. like Nutsy pointed oot..
Advice,is only Useful..if the Receiver of the Advice..
Chooses tae ACCEPT IT..and Act oan it.
Is Neil, Capable of Doing That?
Ah canny Tell Ye..
But if he is No.. then..
We wull Jist hivtae. accept it.. and Be willing tae Put up
Wi
Neil’s..
Often.. Bewildering and.. Cocka Mamie Team Selections…
whenevah we face European Opposition.
Fur Neil ,is.. Frankly..
Oot of His Depth..
IN EUROPE..
He wull Get away wi’ Murder ,in Scotland.. but ,in Europe..
Neil, Needs someone tae Lean oan .. and tae Take that Someone’s
Prudent Advice.
Kojo
Still, Laughin’
Foxy
Yes, Izzy has his faults, but how do we get the ball forward and get decent crosses in if he doesn’t play ? Only him and Commons looked any kind of credible threat to open up SK last night.
We’ve seen it loads of times in Europe, we play well and get results if we use SK tactics. Sit deep and hit on the break. We are absolutely clueless when the other team do the same thing. It is all slow, ponderous build up, with backwards and sideways passing, no burst of pace to speed things up, no threading through of passes. I have to say its rally hard to see how we are going to break down this lot next Wednesday. Last night reminded me of the home game last year against ICT when we were beaten by a similar scoreline. It was almost a replica of that game.
So, let’s try something different against ICT this Saturday. Let’s see if Neil is capable of changing the way we play against such a setup.
Marti
On who to blame for not getting a striker ( and other positions) .
I dont blame the board. I suspect the club would have preferred to have all of Hooper , Wanyama and Wilson available for these ties.
I also suspect all 3 players were pressured by their agents to get their transfer sealed ASAP. The agents would have used the age old scare tactic of potential injury. In these circumstances the clubs best position is to maximise the price.
When it comes to signing players, there will be targets who will only sign if we are guaranteed CL Group stages. Miku very much fell into that category last season. That didnt work out in any way.
The club therefore only have a lever of cash to overcome this. There is an excess of evidence to show how stupid it is tomfollow that route.
So the choices were to sign lesser players before the qualifiers, or to trust we could win through with what we had.
Given the evidence of the first leg, we had more than enough to win through with the players we have. As long as the players perform as they can and have previously, and as long as Neil stops his obsession with Charlie in Midfield, who missed 2 great chances as well as slowing the entire team down to a level that suited Shakter’s limited abilities.
Win through and I expect to be able to sign a couple of very good players.
31003 16:43
I thought VvD looked pretty composed. Think we’ve got a good one there.
My Dear Timbhoy2….
Totally Agree..!
Clark Carlisle Was Very Impressive As A Summariser/Co-Commentator….
And For An Englishman,Seemed To Know A Bit About Celtic,And The Individual Players….
GoodBye Burley,Provan….
16 roads
I assumed that Mr Z had to be having a laugh, hence my leg pulling.
Although doesn’t read that well now, it was meant in jest.
Something must have got lost in the translation from the original site or
they are well… s***e. As bad as the SMSM when they have a quiet day.
NFL was asked about it and was absolutely fine. Unusual but respect other cultures etc.
Have an even better wan yersel. :0)
HH
Up Over Goal
Hiya, Pally?
Great tae Greet ye.
Ah agree wi every Single Woid that ye hiv Writ!
How aboot that, Virgiinia?
Yep.. Neil, is The guy in the Limelight..
No the Board. No Pierre.. No.. even.. The Tea Lady!!
It is His Baby..and He Must .. Carry It.
He must .. Feed it.. He must Clothe it.. He must.. even Change it’s Nappies..
When it maks a Mess..
And this Baby.. sure Needs It’s Nappy Chinged!
Nice chatting tae ye.
Kojo
Still..Laughin’
Up-over-goal/Kojo
In my opinion he is not up to the job.
Tactically limited and lacks the ability to implement playing systems properly.
Yes the board are culpable in not getting players but we are not the sum of our parts and never have been under Neil.
We are an incomplete team thanks to an incomplete coach whose assistants seem no better.
I have been thinking, do Celtic have a clear way of playing under Neil Lennon?
I think we do when we play in the CL group stages. We flood the team with big lads and try to Stoke teams.
But when the onus is on us to play (Spartak, Elfsborg, Last night) we put in some rank performances, even when the results are good.
Do we ever play attractive attacking football?
Neil seems to favour the approaches of managers like Pulis, Moyes or Allardyce as opposed to a more progressive approach.
NFL has proven beyond dispute his managerial ability to get the upper hand when playing against superior teams, as last season’s Champions League dislays showed. He was fantastic.
There is however, I believe occasions where he has failed to get the better of inferior teams. (ICT in the league 4 seasons ago, Ross County in the cup semi final).
Celtic should dispose of that mob with a couple of goals to spare next week.
However,
serenity-VG as ever.HH
Neil Lennon is the manager because he took the job when no one else was interested.
And in his time he has delivered more highs than lows.
There are days when the ole bhlog makes the DR Hotline sound like the Algonquin Round Table.
fan-a-tic
Neil Lennon fits with the clubs strategy. He masterminded a win over Barcelona. He took off a defender and put on a 19 year old who scored the winner.
Not up to the job? This is a game that was easilly lost and we did lose. The tie however is very much alive and like the pre 1990’s I expect the better side to progress over the 2 legs. These results were common place when teams knew little of each other. We won;t play as bad and they won’t play better. We were still better than them with our worst European performance in years.
We had more chances than they did. We will win at Paradise tie will be level in the first 30 mins. Don;t turn on the manager. You will be wanting him ina suit next!
LB
Kojo
16:03 on
21 August, 2013
Yes it is possible….
Now what is it Loyd Grossman was fond of saying …….
Johan Elmander to Norwich on loan ,would he not have done us a turn in the qualifiers?
Horsehasboltedcsc
“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.”
Although not said about football…seems apt today.
(quote from a well known politician born at Blenheim Palace)
gerald766
16:18 on
21 August, 2013
Sir Paul, very disappointed in your summation.
No account of extenuating circumstances, rather a complete dismissal of any.
It ill behoves you!
I shall return to this forum returns when it reverts to something like FAIR!
H.H.
…………
Just a passing thing Gerald.
Get yourself back asap.
HH
“!!Bada Bing!!”
Can’t afford his wages
He would rather play in England I’m sure. Most players do.
!!bada Bing!!
Strategy, wage structure blah, blah, blah
GET WITH THE PROGRAMME!
HH
If Ah wur King…
And Going by whit Ah witnessed,in Last Night’s Hi Jinks..
of this Celtic Eleven.. vis a Vis.. the Gandydancers.. well.. Twelve.
Twelve? Ye Ask..
Yes.. Twelve.. (Haud oan..He wull get BACK Tae That..ed)
Well..
If Ah Wur King..
Ah wid .. Catch a Dragon..and Fly tae Kayak Town…
and Sign up..fur us.
The Gandydancer’s ..
Fly, Sleekit, Connivin’ Son of a Lady Dug… MANAGER!
Yes.. Celtic Didnae face Eleven Men last Night..
No Way!
They Faced.. TWELVE!
Sure, Ah am Makng a Joke. but
It Soitenly hiz a JAG in it!
Kojo
Still, Laughin’
Last nights result shouldnt surprise anyone – we are a team totally bereft of any tactical nous.
The performance away against Elfsborg was about as bad as I could remember however getting the result masked the underlying problem which unfortunately manifested itself in the very next game.
The tactic of side to side passing with the ultimate objective of working towards a good position to cross the ball in to the centre of goal area is 1 dimensional and the footballing equivalent of a dinosaur and should be extinct.
A cross is a lottery ticket and the destination is an area we are outnumbered 3-4 to 1 should the cross be a good one.
There is a reason we cant string more than 3 passes together when we play against a team marginally better than of SPL standard – we dont practice any pass and move drills on the training ground and it actually looks like professional football players are under instruction NOT to move off the ball; I cant think of another reason why they consistently dont seem to mind their marker being on their shoulder without even trying to lose him.
So after the 1st pass has been made to the one available person, by the time the second pass is made to someone else more tightly marked all other available space has been closed down and the 3rd pass is either a hit and hope or is to someone tightly marked.
If someone had asked me whether the Celtic team that took the field in Sweden against Elfsborg were strangers who had never played football together before, I would have understood why he asked.
Yet the crux of that particular team had played together for 2-3 years.
The question of what the players actually do in training can wait until another day.
Moving on from our tactical ineptness to the team selection, which was obviously very wrong.
Why we gave such respect to a very very poor football team is a poor judgement call, why we did damn all to rectify it after we saw just how poor they were is beyond my comprehension.
The stats showed that just before a substitution was made Celtic had 70% possession, 350 odd passes with an 81% success rate, vs a team that whilst possessing some technically gifted players, resembled players who looked relatively new to ‘soccer’ and therefore lacked any real footballing intelligence and had 150 odd passes with a 59% success rate – yet Celtic werent really carving them open with any degree of certainty.
Lennons 1st substitution was by hook or crook and replaced a right back with a right back.
The Samaras up front misadventure continued.
The Samaras up front and on his own debacle carried on.
Absolutely shocking omissions by the management team – and lessons not being learned which is all the more concerning.
Individually Celtic are actually of a fairly good quality – the scouting system is effective and between John Park and Neil Lennon they know how to pick a player.
Playing together however they are mundane and boring to watch.
The ingredients are there – however we dont have the master chef that would be able to make proper use of them.
We have 2 options as far as I can see, we continue as we are on the proverbial road to nowhere. We will continue to win more than we lose, do well domestically and have a decent record in Europe – so success wise not too bad.
Or;
We harbour more ambition than that and recruit a technically sound, attacking minded tactical coach to supplement Lennon, Parker and Mjallby.
Someone who might have whispered into the ear of Lennon last night – ‘do you not think we should throw on another striker and attack this mob, coz theyre mince Lenny’
Names, names, names
If they want the EPL then they won’t even talk to us.
Norwich CSC
Potentially the worst repercussions for the Club from 1 match ever (Loss in excess of 20M, in a time when we need it more than ever to maintain our status in the world game) and there are people on her posting stuff like ‘podium’ and ‘4th’ FFS.
This used to be a great site for debating all things Celtic. I woke up this morning feeling physically sick at last nights result, and am sure many others did too.
Our Club is being mismanaged and the fans (or even the customers if you want to call them that…) are being taken for an absolute ride. Best 2 players sold – no replacement. Number 1 defender sold – no replacement. All ahead of a tie that is literally critical as it would give us access to a pile of money that could basically be used to make massive structural improvements to our club. (Phase 2 training ground? further scouting investment? Bigger academy?) We had (still have… but only just) the opportunity to ensure that even once the new rangers club arrive in the spfl, they are quite simply unable to catch us for decades. (even if they cheat).
I agree a quality penalty box striker costs a lot of money, and perhaps we needed to wait until CL qualification was ensured to buy the guy we would like, and lower our sights if we didn’t make it to the CL. However – who in their right mind would not have allocated about 2.5 million to find a defensive midfielder who would add value to the squad, and with good coaching could be sold on for a profit? Additionally who in their right mind would have not advocated the same 2.5 million or so for a good quality Centre Back to replace our departed first pick (Wilson) or alternatively simply told wilson he could only leave once qualification was ensured or an adequate replacement was in place? These 2 decisions are imo amounting to negligence on the part of p lawwell. The biscuit tin is well and truly back – i await with baited breath to see who will be our cascarino signing.
I am off to shut the stable door.
Livibhoy-god bless we Oscar
Don’t quite know what your comment about wanting him in a suit means?
I have not turned on him and my posting history shows that while I admire him as man I always thought he was lacking in the coaching department.
The game against Barcelona was a great result with a backs to the wall strategy .
We won with a header from a corner and a great piece of skill from a young man latching on to a punt who was subsequently rewarded with very little playing time since.
Of course he fits the clubs strategy a coach who resonates with the support but whose limited ability is overcome by us having a vastly better squad than anyone else in Scotland.
Am I the only one who has stopped reading any posts dissecting last night’s performance?
Serenity
16:43 on
21 August, 2013
Black Magic
–
The lamb wiz led tae the slaughter fir the second time that day
The overhyped, overpaid player’s couldnae find a way
Passin wiz incidental, as the game just passed them by
Awe that sleep oan the aeroplane had left them feelin dry
–
The only drink available wiz some blood fae the lamb
The overhyped, overpaid player’s refused tae take a dram
Scorin wiz incidental, as they had left their shootin boots
Under the bed oan the aeroplane, beside the parachutes
–
They also firgoat their tactics, the book left oan the plane
Spellbound in the dugout, circled wae bloodstain
They used some kind of magic, some say they cast a spell
Put a trance on awe the players, that naedae could dispel
Nice wan
Eyes wide open
Very well put.
Have to agree with most of what Paul has to say -it is not acceptable that we lose because players cannot be bothered making an effort to run around
Too many of our guys looked as if they were looking for any excuse to justify their abject performances
Totally agree with those singing the praise of the guy summarising onITV 4
He had us summed up in a matter of minutes
He pointed out that it is no use having plenty of men back defending if all they do is stand there!
They have to be told to attack the ball – that’s why we lost both goals
We had plenty of players in position but none attacked the ball
At the second VVD neither moved up to leave his man off-side nor attacked the ball when it was played towards him
However I would cut him some slack as he was starting his first game!
To me the biggest mystery is why we have made absolutely no attempt to sign a player who can play Victor’s role
There has been talk about strikers and defenders but none about real defensive midfield players
The two CB were left dreadfully exposed yesterday
Most teams in Europe play at least one holding player – many play two.
MCFC played three at times under Mancini the year they won the league!
We have only ONE on the books and he never featured yesterday
Even more surprising the young lad Irvine who might play there has been loaned out!
Next week we will be vulnerable on the counter again because we do not have the right sort of players playing in their right positions
HH