‘News’ that a football club can actually go out of business will come as a surprise to no one here as Hearts issued a statement saying “Without the support of fans there is a real risk that Hearts could possibly play its last game on 17 November.”
Hearts have two commercial problems: they owe HMRC money they don’t have and their running costs are greater than their income. They also have over £20m of debt owed to major shareholder, Ukio Bankas, which at this stage of their corporate existence is more of an asset than a liability.
The club have asked supporters to cough up around £2m to pay HMRC and see it through until the end of the season. A further £1.7m HMRC demand is being contested but should Hearts lose this appeal, that bill will crystallise quickly.
Unlike the now-defunct Rangers, Hearts major shareholder is due more than 75% of the debt, so Ukio could vote to accept a Company Voluntary Arrangement, possibly for as little as 1p in the £1, if the club goes into administration. This is a well-travelled road for Scottish football clubs who overwhelmingly fail owing shareholders or the bank the majority of their debt.
In this respect, there is no obvious reason why Hearts are in danger of playing their last game next week. Administration would allow the club to shed its debt, including the contested tax bill. It would almost certainly result in player redundancies, which would reduce expenditure below the level of income. Hearts would be diminished as a football club, and would take a 17 point hit in the SPL, but that is as bad as it needs to get. Ukio Bankas would take the largest hit on money they may well have already written-off.
The only thing I see for Hearts fans to worry about is the property value of Tynecastle. Ukio will almost certainly have a charge on all the club’s property assets. If the club disappears, they would be left with the real estate. Tynecastle is worth a whole lot more money as flats than as a football field.
When a company cannot pay its creditors it goes into administration and seeks to negotiate a settlement with them. Hearts can do this “within days if not hours”, as Our Hero once said. It’s just curious that Hearts are playing on the bring rather than sorting things out.
Maybe they could get former player and tracksuit salesman, Maurice something-or-other, to sell some of their assets.
The magnificent 1254125 charity cycle, from birthplace of Brother Walfrid, Ballymote, Co. Sligo, to Celtic Park, got underway yesterday. Today the six cyclists, Paul Muldoon (of this parish), Mark Cameron, Alistair Schulz, Robert Campbell Ray McFarland and Jim Kelly, left Blacklion on a 80 mile journey to Lurgan.
Check out their everyclick page for more information.
You can read CQN Magazine for FREE here , you can also subscribe for £10 or £20, and our sponsor, Executive Shaving, who offer an enormous range of grooming products, are offering readers a £20 voucher for all £30 CQN Magazine subscribers.
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@TheThunderZine: Primary schools in Scotland using Orange Order material to educate children according to @ConnollySociety http://t.co/1rfxYWK0
The Battered Bunnet – I said as much in a post last night, although the central issue is really whether selling the ground now is a more attractive option than hanging on until real estate prices improve.
My bet is we’re entering our own “lost decade”. Or decades. (thumbsup)
Top Tip.
Given that the Jam Farts of Midlithuania are sponsored by Wonga, can they not just get a loan to tide them over at the very competitive rate of 4000% APR as currently advertised.
Simples!
Option A: return to bank – zero.
Option B: return to bank – £10M+.
Give me a minute…..
Someone more cynical than I might suspect Hearts’ owners of offering a fundamentally unattractive proposition to fans (give us £2M to pay a bill but with no wider plan to address our huge debt), in order to be able to point the finger elsewhere when the plug gets pulled.
The sooner there is a European League the better, so we can ditch all these tax dodgers…
Anybody got a link to the photo of young tony watt whistling the celtic song in the tunnel to the bemusement of the barca players.hh
About forty eight hours or so ago I was settling down to prepare for the game v FCB whilst exchanging emails with BMCUW discussing such, when I received a message that a very close and Celtic supporting uncle had just passed away………
Was (also) logged on to CQN at the time and my immediate thought was to post about the sad news just received….. It is unlike me to post a personal item of that nature, as I am usually very private wrt such things. Had just emailed BMCUW to say was planning some shut eye prior to the event, when the alert popped up telling me that I have mail…………..Initially thought it was BMCUW but it was our Patrick telling me that my phone was switched off and informing me of Tony’s passing……… Absolutely stunned; thoughts all over the place, emotional and in bits……..
What to do? Well instead of the intended pre-match kip after my couple of planned sleep inducing beers at the wee resort across the road, I opened a box of ‘Chillable Californian Red’ and proceeded to finish it but in the intervening period found myself posting the aforementioned upsetting personal news on CQN………
The kind words, thoughts, prayers and condolences expressed in response by so many people on here was truly reassuring and appreciated……..
Watched the game and memorable performance through a bit of a sleepless/alcohol fuelled haze and with no little measure of added poignancy for yours truly………
So consequently back on CQN today, slightly embarrassed (at, (I know, not quite) baring my soul, (still, a bit open for me though)) but with a wee word of thanks to those fine, caring, compassionate and thoughtful CQN responders; too many to name-check individually. Thank you……….
BTW the links may not be to everyone’s taste……..
http://web.archive.org/web/20090107051836/http://www.dubaihoops.com/9.html
http://gb.youtube.video4me.net/user/tgaZeeBoo/play/xzCewJGbYrE/Amahan_Namo_(The_Lord's_Prayer)_-_Voices_of_Praise_of_Carmel
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
Árd Macha
Thanks for that.
Obviously Celtic think highly of the man so as I say good luck to him.
Spoke with a sports psychologist last year over here who works mainly with top sports people and at that time her main focus was on how to bring a particular NHL player back from being pulled from a big game after having a bit of a mare.
She also spoke about working with golfers who blow a lead in tournaments and why it happens.
We spoke about penalty shoot outs and why sometimes the so called bigger players miss and your players that come after the first 5 often tuck their pens away with ease.
I was a skeptic until that conversation.
A very interesting topic.
Was it not Mercer’s dream to build a new stadium for Hibs and Hearts to share back in the 80s? As you would expect in the world of football, common sense and business logic is trumped by the usual mix of politics and the tunnel-vision emotions of fans. Same problem from Dundee to Liverpool – fan power ensures their clubs remain shackled to stadiums that lie empty for 13 days out of 14 and that are located in undesirable urban locations with poor transport facilities (car and coach parks, train stations, road network) and that are not fit for purpose in the 21st century. In Scotland where clubs finances have always been limited, at best, ground sharing should have been a no-brainer for Hearts, Hibs, Dundee and Dundee Utd.
Tynecastle has been subject to property development rumours for 25+ years, It will eventually happen.
Edinburgh’s going to be green and white just like Glasgow. (thumbsup)
.
Re; The Missing 5,000..
I think they Only Counted the Scarfes at Walk On..When it (Camera) Pans round to the Heated seats there are about 5,000 without Scarfes..:O(
Summa of TheOnlyBuyScarfesAfterWeWinCSC
Rangers dead and Hearts dying.
Celtic beating Barce and Hibs going well in the league.
Anyone see a pattern here??
With John Park and Jim McGuinness at Lennoxtown, we are going to be untouchable for years to come.
Hoopy Days!
Another 5-0 for Barca then…
Mallorca goalkeeper, Dudu Aouate, said yesterday at a press conference that he sees his team with a chance of beating FC Barcelona, but doubts that will follow the approach of Celtic, who won Wednesday night at club FC Barcelona, thanks to an ultra-defensive.
“I do not think we play against Barca as Celtic,” said Mallorca goalkeeper referring to the game and approach the Scottish team, who waited to Barcelona throughout the match, becoming the only two occasions goal of which placed .
“To win at Barca goalkeeper and the defense has to be good, also the whole team. Otherwise, you can not with a team that generates many occasions and has the best players in the world,” he said.
“We want to get something positive in this game and we will go to the party”, but acknowledged the difficulty of the game against league leaders and undefeated, “but these three points are very important for us,” he added.
Israeli goalkeeper wanted to stress that the Barcelona “is never relaxed.” “They are teams, along with Madrid (which won 0-5 at the Iberostar) very competitive we always come to win. Barca against Celtic played well, with 85% of possession and despite the defeat, led many occasions, “he said.
As for the streak of five straight games without knowing anything other than defeat, Aouate replied that “we are not worried, because there is still a lot of league, but lost five straight (Getafe, Granada, Sevilla, Real Madrid and Deportivo Corunna) is not a good sign. Anyway, and subtracting the game against Real Madrid, which was terrible, in the remaining four did not deserve to lose, “he concluded.
Right, it’s time for Jobo’s baldie…
PS – 271…
Uefa saying we only had the ball for 47 seconds in the second hald on Wednesday.
Best 47 seconds ever!!
Did Celtic not correct the attendance figure by claiming it was 59,000 as opposed to the 55,000 quoted by some.
Apologies if I have picked up the wrong end of the conversation.
Árd Macha
ASonOfDan – Best 47 seconds ever!!
That’s what she said. (thumbsup)
HH
apparently Benficas eagle just flew out of the stadium on wed and did not do its wee hover and land routine..
” it’s on it’s way, to paradise”
Comedy gold..
Messi now saying Celtic were lucky.
Maybe so Lionel but when you have a team who pay what they can afford to against a team who are doped up to the eyeballs to ensure success you need to be.
I’d say if we had had a ref who wasn’t afraid to be even handed for fear of getting the blame for your mob losing you’d have finished with 9 men. So please Lionel, get over it. You couldn’t score in 180 minutes against us (it too you to stoppage time).
And we’ve got better supporters than you do.
Paul, if (as to be suspected) Ukios has a charge over the ground, then they will stand outside of any CVA proposal. They won’t vote for 1p in the £ or whatever the offer is, because they don’t need to. In that scenario, HMRC become the biggest creditor in any CVA proposal and they will decide whether to accept or not. Given their recent track record, it makes sense for Hearts to ask the funds to stump up the cash. I think the risk of failure here is real and NeilR at 12:33 makes a good point about Ukios’ motivations here.
It is utterly incredulous that some see the possible demise of the minihuns as the foreshadowed armageddon.
HMFC didn’t suddenly run into financial trouble this season. They have been in trouble for years.
And what could possibly have driven them, like many other clubs, into unsupportable debt?
Could it be the pressure brought to bear by that other financially stricken club (now in liquidation)?
Mr Murray and his cohort (including corrupt sporting officials) are primarily responsible.
Mr Murray does not deserve a knighthood, he deserves a night (with many to follow) in jail.
Regardless of whether or not other clubs collapse, the solution is not to reward those responsible for creating this mess.
We need to see the game in Scotland completely cleansed of those responsible for the shambolic mess the game is now in.
My own belief is that the game throughout Europe is about to collapse. The financial debt burder is unsustainable.
RFCil is the first domino to fall. Hearts may be next. Look down south for the serious rattle of dominoes falling to gather pace.
A Spanish government crackdown on outstanding tax bills has forced La Liga side Deportivo Coruna to seek a re-financing package to avoid slipping into administration, club president Augusto Cesar Lendoiro has said
Depor, league champions in 2000, have been targeted by the tax authority with an embargo on their income. Local media have reported in the past they owed the government a figure of around 34 million euros.
“Deportivo…have started the negotiations that preface a meeting with creditors and to reach an agreement on a re-financing package,” Lendoiro told a news conference late on Thursday.
“The tax authority have embargoed practically all our income.
“The tax authority has received more than 20 million euros from us in 2012. Deportivo have offered to pay the outstanding debt over the next 10 years, if they lift the embargoes.”
Lendoiro, president of Deportivo since 1988, was keen to stress that the Galician club was a viable business.
“Our income far exceeds our expenditure,” he said. “Deportivo don’t want to enter administration. They want to pay their debts with the tax authorities and their creditors.”
It is my opinion that Scottish football will improve if we get rid of the debt ridden clubs and bring into the SPL more solvent ones. .H.
Mea Culpa – Look down south for the serious rattle of dominoes falling to gather pace
They’ll be chappin’ soon. (thumbsup)
A few points on Jim McGuinness:
1. Part of the Donegal GAA squad that won their 1st All Ireland football final in 1992;
2. A qualified sports psychologist;
3. Took over Donegal GAA as coach in 2010. Donegal rated as 22 out of 32 counties;
4. Announced a 5 year plan to get Donegal back at the top;
5. Managed Donegal to their 1st Ulster championship in 9 years in 2011;
5. Managed Donegal to their 2nd All Ireland GAA in September 2012
6. Donegal sing songs about Jimmy McGuinness
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjQrnImT_k
JimmyswinningmatchesCSC
hhplc
Goodbye cheating Hearts. Goodbye any other cheating clubs- will be an interesting Div 3.
I don’t care if we romp it – at least it will be a fair win against fair teams.
I heard in the pub after the game that the FTT result would be published today, hope it was correct, anyone heard anything, anyone got a link to the publication page ?
Official barca site starting to do the maths. Who would have thought it?
Barça’s defeat in Glasgow and Benfica’s win over Spartak have somewhat changed the state of play in Champions League Group G. Barça are still top with 9 points, but Celtic are just two behind on 7, while the Portuguese side has 4 points and the Muscovites have 3. Here we analyse what it all means for FC Barcelona’s chances:
– Barça will be through to the last sixteen if they win their next game, which is in Moscow on November 20, for that would guarantee at least 12 points. But if Celtic win at Benfica, they would have 10 points and still have a chance of topping the group. Remember that after respective 2-1 home wins, the head-to-head between FCB and Celtic is equal, so if the same two clubs are tied on points it will come down to overall goal difference, which Barça currently lead, with +3 compared to Celtic’s +1.
– Barça would be group champions if they win at Spartak and Celtic fail to win at the Stadium of Light.
– A Barça draw in the Russian capital would also see them as good as though to the next round. Qualification wouldn’t be one hundred per cent certain due to the possibility of a three-way tie, which could still happen if Barça were to lose to Benfica at the Camp Nou on the final day. However, the scenario of a three-way tie would also require Celtic to lose in Portugal and then beat Spartak in the final game. Should that happen, the Catalans, Scots and Portuguese outfits would have ten points each.
– If Barça draw in Russia and Celtic can get at least a point at Benfica, then FCB would be safely through to the last sixteen.
– But if Barça lose in Moscow, the shape of the group would change dramatically. Depending on what happens later that same evening in Lisbon, all four teams might still have a chance of qualifying (or being eliminated) on the final day.
.
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon
12:41 on
9 November, 2012
Rangers dead and Hearts dying.
Celtic beating Barce and Hibs going well in the league.
Anyone see a pattern here??
..
A Space between each Line..??
Summa
ernie lynch
12:18 on
9 November, 2012
kitalba
12:12 on 9 November, 2012
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo
‘how many empty rows between the crowd and the pitch as demanded by UEFA = how many supporters.’
That doesn’t apply at CP, though it does at other grounds like Anfield. Presumably it’s something that was taken into account when the stadium was rebuilt.
The missing 5,000 might be seats allocated to sponsors, UEFA flunkies etc, though the figure does seem high.
——————————————-
we do still give up the first two rows of seats directly behind the goals, the uefa directive is to stop any banners being placed over sponsorship. I estimate this is 600 seats.
As to the “corporate” seats given up, surely they should still be included as “attendees” at the game.
i just hate false reporting of attendance figures.
i am sure other clubs that give await seats at no cost, are claiming these attendances.
Wow. This little girl is like Dash from the Incredibles
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2012/nov/09/sam-gordon-female-american-football-player-video?CMP=twt_gu
Árd Macha
Joe Filippis Haircut – It is my opinion that Scottish football will improve if we get rid of the debt ridden clubs and bring into the SPL more solvent ones. .H.
Yup. As with any other industry, the only sustainable model is one that involves making a profit.
As in any other industry, bailing out or propping up losers only ends up punishing the responsible to reward the feckless. (thumbsup)
Is my memory playing tricks on me or was there not supposed to be some imminent publication or announcement on Rangers FTT Tax case?
it is all very suspicious if you ask me…… :)
When Hearts go down the newco road and with Wonga as sponsors they will be called
Hearts of Highlonian
hailhailplc – I’m reserving judgement on Mr McGuinness until Owen Coyle’s Donegal granny’s CQN friends weigh in on this debate.
Where is donegaldanny since his club got liquidated BTW? (thumbsup)
I’ve spent the last couple of days trying to come up with a form of words to do justice to wednesday evening…and have come up short every time!
The history, the occasion, the spectacle, the support, the belief, the manager, the team, the individuals, the result, the reactions, the joy…each as indescribable as the last!
How lucky we are.
bbg
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire
12:57 on 9 November, 2012
”I heard in the pub after the game that the FTT result would be published today, hope it was correct, anyone heard anything, anyone got a link to the publication page ?’
It seems the site is normally updated on a Wednesday.
http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.gov.uk/Aspx/default.aspx