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You are at:»»VAR, the second goal, Jota goal and Starfelt challenge. It’s complicated

VAR, the second goal, Jota goal and Starfelt challenge. It’s complicated

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By on CQN BLOG & Comments

Let’s start with what the other side think.  Motherwell manager, Steven Hammell, complained about Celtic’s second goal.  Matt Penney took a throw-in and hit Sead Haksabanovic, who was returning to the field having run off with Penney.  Hammell wrongly claimed VAR did not look at the incident, when in fact, they scrutinised it before the goal was confirmed.

See below.  The ball is in play the instant any part of it goes above the line.  What you have to consider is, where is the ball when it hits Haksabanovic on the head?

Penney is well behind the line, Haksabanovic’s foot looks to be on the line, a football is 22cm.  The image is inconclusive.  Motherwell may have a case for a good moan, but even though we don’t know for sure what happened on this occasion, VAR was correct, it is only there to change clear mistakes, which this was not.

The challenge on Carl Starfelt by Josh Morris was studs up, caught the Celtic player on the foot (by definition, therefore, out of control) and dangerous.  Carl saw it coming and escaped more serious consequences.

There were mitigating circumstances.  Carl hesitated, inviting Morris into the challenge, so there was no intent.  I suspect that mitigation and the fact that Carl escaped injury led referee Willie Collum to caution the player.  We then revert to VAR’s role as an arbiter of a clear mistake.  On this occasion, they decided that threshold was not breached.  The referee should have awarded a red card first, or waited on guidance from VAR, before issuing a caution.

VAR takes the heat on this one, but it was a ref decision.  You may also like to consider an incident at Ibrox last month, when VAR upgraded a caution issued to a Livingston player, advising the referee a red was in order.  Personally, I’m happy for VAR to adjudicate either way on these decisions but would really prefer the same interpretation applied to teams in green and white, as to teams in blue.

For my money, the Jota goal was onside.  From what we saw on TV, VAR was provided inconclusive evidence.  Is it possible they do not have a camera at both ends of the ground?  Otherwise, why show us inconclusive pictures from 60 yards away?

My understanding is that VAR have access to their own cameras and to TV (the game was on PPV) at both sides of the ground.  I’m a tad suspicious we didn’t see the better freeze-frame.  The assistant flagged an offside and we have no clear evidence either way, so I have no case to argue.

I’m happy we have VAR, it provides scrutiny, which is welcome.  This has already made clear that we need better ‘trained’ referees.  Vilifying them at every turn (I get the irony here) will not help.  We also need better VAR.  Scotland has an entry level product.  England has better, the Champions League has best.  Football must find the money and press on.

My main concern for the technology is how ball-to-arm incidents are judged when we visit Ibrox on 2 January.  The portents on this one are not encouraging.

Matt O’Riley continues to grow as a player.  His ball-winning tackle inside the box before crossing for Kyogo to open the scoring was a measured treat.

 

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  1. !!Bada Bing!! on

    Rags reporting Celtic want talks SFA/SPFL re Jota’s goal,Motherwell Chief Exec Alan Burrows said there were more angles available, rather than the one from outer space

     

     

     

    I wonder if Ange has flagged it up to Nicholson?

  2. Saint Stivs on

    our history –

     

     

    ————

     

     

    FOOTBALL

     

    ‘His grave sticks out: it’s always got a Celtic scarf on’

     

    Michael Grant

     

    Tuesday November 08 2022, 12.01am, The Times

     

    Football

     

    Brother Walfrid’s sculpture at Celtic Park, cast in bronze with a granite pedestal

     

    Brother Walfrid’s sculpture at Celtic Park, cast in bronze with a granite pedestal

     

    Share

     

    One of the stadium tour guides at Celtic Park could be forgiven for wanting to rush around the place and then park his group at the Brother Walfrid statue to start waxing lyrical. Dr Michael Connolly, a 32-year-old regular in the Lisbon Lions stand, can hold his own on most matters concerning Celtic but let there be no doubt about his specialist subject were he to appear on Mastermind.

     

     

    In the stadium’s Jock Stein lounge tonight there will be an event to celebrate the launch of Walfrid, A Life of Faith, Community and Football, Connolly’s biography of the club’s founding father and, as far as many supporters are concerned, its moral compass. On Sunday, when the club acknowledged the 135th anniversary of being formally constituted, Brother Walfrid’s central role was acknowledged in having established Celtic as a vehicle to raise money for soup kitchens in Glasgow’s east end.

     

     

    Walfrid has always been central to Celtic’s proud sense of itself as a club but there had never been a study of his whole life and so a PhD study was commissioned by Glasgow arts company The Nine Muses and Connolly successfully applied for it. The book emerged from four years of research, a labour of love. The challenge was to flesh out a figure simultaneously revered and little known by much of the Celtic fanbase.

     

     

    “I would have fallen into the same category as maybe 90 per cent of Celtic supporters,” Connolly said. “I would have been able to tell you a vague idea of who he was, that he was Irish, Catholic, that he came here to Scotland and founded a football club. But other than that? It was really a skeleton, almost a myth that we have inherited about this guy.

     

     

    “And you come to realise he was only connected officially with the football club from its formation in 1888 to 1892. It’s less than five years and then he’s off, and he lived until he was 74. So there was almost anther seven decades of his life which were understudied or unresearched. I had a blank canvas really.”

     

     

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    So who was he? Walfrid was born Andrew Kerins and was just 15 when he left rural County Sligo in Ireland to come to Glasgow by cattle boat in 1855. While still in his teens Kerins worked alongside many other Irish labourers in railway engineering in Springburn and later he entered teaching and began attending classes by the Marist Brothers, an international Catholic community. He joined the order himself and became Brother Walfrid.

     

     

    He worked in the city’s east end to teach children, mainly of Irish immigrants, and committed himself to the wider impoverished Irish Catholic diaspora in Glasgow and later London. Hunger was a motif throughout his decades of service. In 1884 he created the poor children’s dinner tables charity which was feeding a thousand kids in the east end within 12 months. He shrewdly identified the creation of football club, Celtic, as a way to service or raise funds towards the cause.

     

     

    “That was the key for me, to trace his roots right back to an Gorta Mor [Ireland’s great famine],” Connolly said. “He was born in 1840 seven years before the worst effects of the famine in ‘Black 47’. His childhood is characterised by that starvation, hunger and death and a real brutal upbringing and formative years. He was one of the lucky ones who was able to survive and get out and go elsewhere and improve his lot. But I don’t think it ever left him. He was always concerned with the feeding of children from a poorer background.”

     

     

    Celtic were already being pulled in different directions by the time Walfrid’s religious superiors sent him from Glasgow to London. Professionalism and money were coming into Scottish football. “Celtic are to the fore of the professionalisation of Scottish football in 1893. That’s just a year after Walfrid left. You do get a sense of drift in the original principles after he leaves. But it’s also important to note that the charitable function did endure in some way, shape or form.”

     

     

    SPONSORED

     

     

     

    Connolly’s endless hours in library archives fleshed out Walfrid’s subsequent life and work in London and his eventual return to see out his days at the Marist Brothers’ flagship school in Dumfries. He died aged 74 in 1915, by then heavy and in failing health. Later the same day Celtic became Scottish champions for the 12th time.

     

     

    Up to his death Walfrid still received weekly Saturday evening telegrams telling him the Celtic score. In a notable departure from the Marists’ sombre conventions he was buried with a Celtic jersey on his coffin. Decades later Jock Stein and the then Celtic chairman, Sir Robert Kelly, brought the European Cup to his resting place.

     

     

    “Even today, if you visit Dumfries where he is buried, the graveyard is laid out in a very uniform way. The ethos of the Marist brothers is simplicity and poverty, it’s all very solemn. But Walfrid’s grave sticks out a mile because it’s always got a Celtic scarf draped over it,” explains Connolly.

     

     

    Connolly’s favourite discovery was a cassette tape made in 1982 by a man who knew Walfrid and made recordings discussing him. “It’s this man’s spoken memory of dealing with Walfrid in person and how he was quite a big presence, a jovial, characterful kind of person. Cards on the table, as a Celtic supporter growing up I didn’t want to find he was some kind of awful character so it was really good to hear confirmation that he had that sense of humour and was remembered fondly by his pupils.”

     

     

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    And revered by Celtic fans decades later. “It was only last season I was at a European game and there was a 40 by 40 foot banner of him and you’re thinking: ‘I need to do this justice’.”

     

     

    Walfrid: A Life of Faith, Community and Football by Michael Connolly. £20, from thirstybooks.com

     

     

    Football

     

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  5. Saint Stivs on

    I hadnt read that fully before posting, but I have now and it brought spine tingling shivers.

     

     

    Imagine hearing a recording of someone who actually knew brother walfrid,

     

     

    wow.

  7. Saint Stivs on

    Connolly’s favourite discovery was a cassette tape made in 1982 by a man who knew Walfrid and made recordings discussing him. “It’s this man’s spoken memory of dealing with Walfrid in person and how he was quite a big presence, a jovial, characterful kind of person. Cards on the table, as a Celtic supporter growing up I didn’t want to find he was some kind of awful character so it was really good to hear confirmation that he had that sense of humour and was remembered fondly by his pupils.”

     

     

     

    if ever a film is needing made its the story of those early years. Gerard Butler as Brother Walfrid anyone ?

     

     

    Martin Compston as John Glass ?

     

     

    McAvoy as McQuillan, a flawed genius

     

     

    others ?

  11. Philbhoy on

    AN TEARMANN

     

     

    Thanks for the link!

     

     

    Looks like we are not turning the other cheek to this industrial scale cheating.

     

     

    I just hope the people in front of the screens get sacked.

     

     

    Remember too, that mibs in the SPL get paid around £1000 a shift.

     

     

    Worth hangin’ on to.

     

     

    Cheetin’ sob’s.

  12. Philbhoy on

    BRRB et al

     

     

    I know, you will all be disappointed to learn that I won’t make it tomorrow!

     

     

    Going out to friends tomorrow night so will have to give what is a brilliant day, a miss.

     

     

    Hopefully next time!

     

     

    Hope you all have a great day!

  13. lucky cody on

    Scottish refs are the worst in the world and that before the cheating kicks in.

     

     

    need overseas refs going forward and get rid of the incompetents and cheats for ever.

     

     

    Scottish refs ceiling should be junior football and not the professional game.

     

     

    they are not for purpose and never will be.

     

     

    ps Ian Maxwell has failed and needs to go

  14. Go tell the Spartim on

    If you wanna see what Scottish refs are gearing up and aspiring for check out the 2 penalties and non red card Juventus got away with vs Verona. Sorry I couldn’t post the link

  15. lucky cody on

    celtic need to go after Maxwell ; he is the head of the serpent with wee masonic crawford allan the tail

  16. petec on

    Gene on 10th November 2022 7:57 pm

     

     

    Are there more VAR cameras at some grounds than others in the SPFL

     

     

    ……………………………………..

     

     

    The minimum is 6 @ Every ground from non televised matches – this was a home PPV event by Motherwell.

     

     

    I can Imagine that Motherwell wullnae get any or many more paying £15 quid again – I put up with hesgoal and quite frankly Mr Shankly the Wells Bandwidth Tube must have been less congested than CelticTV’s efforts as when they switched to that most (not all buffering had gone).

     

     

    Why we signed up to the Sky deal is a mystery. Frustration abounds.

     

     

    When I went frae the shop floor to the office, Even I was Stunned there, is a World Championships, for a well known office utility I had to get to know!!!!

     

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1RVNGDSdw4

     

     

    VAR FREE 2

  18. An Tearmann on

    Philbhoy

     

     

    We will wait and see my friend,its changed days with the tech,I still don’t know why we can’t have real time.audio and film review.lets hear them.shime a light on it

     

    Hope all good your way

     

    :-)

     

    HH

     

     

     

    Go tell

     

     

    https://youtu.be/HxOBlWqbWW0

     

     

     

    HH

  19. Gene on

    Go tell

     

    I just happened to see one of the incidents when a shot came off a fellow attacker and hit the arm of a juventus defender who had slid down with his arm away from his body. I thought penalty given the current interpretation.

  23. Philbhoy on

    AN TEARMANN

     

     

    VAR operators will show us what they want us to see.

     

     

    We need to nip this cheating in the bud.

     

     

    Hopefully we are meeting the challenge head on!

     

     

    All good here thanks and hope you are good too!

  25. fergusslayedtheblues on

    If there was a camera on the 18yrd line as the guy from Motherwell said Then Celtic should DEMAND to see the footage from that camera .

     

    The footage must exist so our board should receive it .

     

    It is a legitimate request and should be granted .

     

    If it turns out from that footage that Jota is indeed offside the club should

     

    enquire as to why the ccv footage from the local asda was used instead

     

    and lobby all clubs to request the correct and best angle is used in all future calls .

     

    HH

  27. petec on

    Facundo Tello

     

     

    Seems like a Referee to take Sevco ambitions to the next Level.

     

     

    SFA/SEVCO ye got a winner there.

     

     

    No VAR tooraloo.

  37. fergusslayedtheblues on

    That must be why we had no online view of the abada goal too

     

    What are the chances of tv cameras at the time were attacking being trained oh the dug outs

     

    I smell 💩

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