I read in some places how poor PSV Eindhoven were last night. PSV are not a poor team, they finished ahead of a Conference League finalist and two points behind a side who won all six of their Champions League group games last season.
During the first half, they were harried out of their stride, were unable to build periods of possession and only remained in the game as they clearly have better players than their well-drilled opponents. Even if Newco are denied Champions League income next week, we have a fight on our hands for the domestic title.
I’m struggling to think of a single Newco squad member who would get into the Celtic team, but none of us would entertain the fantasy that our current squad would get anywhere near a European final. Newco players have a curious level of energy and physicality. This is what took them to Seville and what inhibited Celtic in the clubs two final meetings last season, when we managed a draw and extra-time defeat.
No later than three weeks today we will have played in the Champions League and our [principle domestic challengers. We need to be honest with ourselves, there is still work to be done.
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TURKEYBHOY on 17TH AUGUST 2022 3:05 PM
One player again being linked with us, Haksabanovitch
~~~~~~~~,~~~
I had never heard of him but quickly discovered that he is a left winger.
Not sure why we would want to sign another player to fill that position.
thanks anyway
HH
“The dafties” lol
1000 word spiels are daft – when they awe happy clap.
A Celtic support that sucks up the non rattling of cages will set free the bears.
The greatest sporting crime ever and Dimmy £finances a PLC that set free the bears!
No Jungle = Spineless Timdom – Replaced by Dimdom.
Thatcher crushed the untamed power of fitba fans with her hegalian dialect act at Hillsborough 1989.
Freemasons caused the problem, so they could bring in the solution.
Create a tragedy, blame it on terraces, bring in all seating. 33*
Fitba fans on terraces created great energy and forged longlasting spirits.
33* mob turned seated fitba fans into 53k auld wifies at the bingo.
Justice for the 97! 💔💚🙏🏻🍀🕯️
https://twitter.com/RMT_Scotland/status/1559680618589523973?s=20&t=5tXzfFOcgRJI5WDCDI1Bmg
MICK LYNCH 2 nights ago.
“WE NEED TO GET OUT OF OUR APATHY AND GET ON THE STREETS – IMMEDIATELY!!”
💥💥💥💥
Good Morning – What a Grand day to be a Tim.
DAVID66… Cheers for that yesterday morning, I know who you meant;)
SFtBs @ 2:24 PM,
“I think several issues are being conflated and confused here.”
Maybe but not by me, so the question must be asked why you wish to conflate and confuse?
I’d suggest the deludomal, take fholk down a long wyndy brae, take a few forks on the path, muddying any waters on route and it might give the impression there is some logic hidden in your comments.
I’m not going unpack that, just give a couple of examples of your modus operandi which of course many a very fimilar with.
Firstly the Sentinel Celts v CQN nonsense.
Some ghuys had an issue with the direction of travel of CQN, they go and start their own site – personally I was neither quick to jump on the bandwagon and I never have been a particularly regular contributor.
Next you suggest I should have mentioned KevJ and Lionsroar. Why? Out of all the thousands of contributors to this site down the years why should I mention those two?
Then you go on to make the point that these posters are banned form the other site. So, what on earth has this got to do with my comments!?
Nothing, it’s there to conflate and confuse….
Of course, those pushing the deludomal love it, yet most I suspect see through it.
Why have so many well informed, smart and articulate posters left this site? They don’t zip up the back.
As for not remembering MiT on CQN, he was on here a long, long time, one of those informed, smart, articulate types.
He is a criminal Lawyer and saw with much greater clarity than most of us what was going down.
In my happy clappy days I often crossed swords with him – yet I was on the deludomal and he was on the money.
Now, it was certainly a view that Celtic were curtailing their spending to ensure that they weren’t to far ahead of new Rangers.
My feelings were the situation was more complex than that.
My recollection of Neg Anons stance was not that of one who wanted to speculate to accumulate (as if that in itself has to be a bad thing), no my recollection was he warned us the Board were not being straight with us and had no intention of putting the money made back into the Club.
That famously came to a head during the “Willo Flood”, transfer window, that famously cost us a League Title.
Again I was late to understand NA was right and often crossed swords with him.
There are those that argue Rangers needed that title to survive and the Celtic Board gave it to them.
Again I don’t think it’s that simple.
As I said in an earlier comment this week, it was the Boards withholding of support for Lenny that brought me to see clearly that they were indeed not being straight with the support.
To understand where I was coming from we need to go back to the end of the MO’N era, the start of CQN as it happens.
In the hope of getting an invitation to the EPL Celtic and Rangers had went all out and built some competitive teams, they could hold there own with the English but had to go into debt to do so – both Celtic and Rangers were speculating to accumulate.
There application to join the EPL was rejected and it was all change, we’ll at least for Celtic.
Now at first Celtic’s parsimonious approach seemed justified – of course MO’N had warned us of life in the slow lane but most of us knew the level of spend and accumulation of debt was not sustainable.
So when money was used to pay down the debt rather than transfer fees that made sense.
When the debt was reduced the argument went we can’t speculate on European success, first we had a financially doped Rangers to contend with to win the domestic league, then if we did get into the UCL qualifiers we could draw the likes of Arsenal (as indeed we did) and had to beat them to qualify.
The fact is that the spend we would have to ensure we were competitive in that respect was huge, certainly a gamble not worth taking.
So many thought we could be doing a lot better, many thought as in the case of the Willo Flood window, that we could certainly be strengthening the team however the arguments against this were compelling and were strongly made in CQN lead articles.
Now we come to the death of Rangers, see it all changed ten years ago, Rangers died and
UCL champions route came in.
Rangers death meant we did not have domestic competition and that the league title was virtually guaranteed.
The Champions route was an altogether fairer route to UCL qualification. After all, it was called the Champions League.
In that competition three!? Home and away ties to get to the UCL proper – we were one of the biggest, if not the biggest Club in the competition, not only that, we were seeded which meant even though we were potentially the best in the competition, we wouldn’t be drawn against the other top teams.
So guaranteed League Champions and a Champions route to the UCL, happy days.
Even so the Board (and CQN) pointed out that there was a chance of failure and that we would have to create the money to invest in the team – of course we had the promise that all money made would go back into the Club.
Well after Rangers died we managed to get into the group stages of the UCL, we had players who were real assets.
So we had paid down our debt, got the UCL windfall money and had sold 30 million pounds worth of players in the aftermath of Rangers demise.
As we were awash with money we were all ready then for the splurge that would make us more competitive in Europe, of course a UCL run after Christmas was still a step too far but the Europa League after Christmas was a different matter.
However, far from this money being spent to strengthen the squad the money was either pocketed or spent on prospects.
We were now speculating to accumulate in the transfer “business”.
It was around that time that it became clear that Celtic had no intention of ensuring justice be done after Rangers died and actually their resurrection would be facilitated by Celtic.
Worse, those Celtic supporters who would take action would be led up the garden path by what they thought was their own.
It was a huge betrayal on many fronts and can’t be simply waved away.
Now what was the motives for the Boards actions in this regard.
Instead of you putting words into my mouth let me give you my take on why things transpired – these comments and views I’ve expressed many times before.
Firstly and foremost, the large Celtic shareholders were and are still seeing the most important item as getting into a larger league, preferably the EPL where there shareholding and earning capacity will soar.
The policies undertaken (large examples, the hoarding of money to facilitate the transition, the smoozing of the ECA, smaller examples being the disco lights and application for a hotel at Celtic Park) to ensure Celtic were EPL/Atlantic/Pan-european league ready when the time came, even if that meant damaging the short term and medium term best interests of the team.
Secondly, the old firm pound, the Celtic Board knew the value of rivalry and mutual benefit the Glasgow that could be garnered by the old firm clubs fuelled by the hate. To be fair we are now seeing that in action, the old firm on both a domestic and European front is more valuable than the some of it’s parts.
They had to keep there eye on Rangers, the financial benefit of the rivalry and the fact that the EPL/Atlantic/Pan-european league would see bringing the old firm Derby in, as better than just having Celtic (huge club as they were) on their own.
That’s not important to me – “we don’t need no stinkin’ Rangers”
Thirdly, culture and incompetence. The Celtic PLC BOARD were feral Capitalists, first and foremost they are focused, ruthless businessesmen – way beyond that of being football men, their raison d’etre and kicks came from business and golfing pursuits, networking and bragging rights were foremost, football and your average football fanatic was very much down their list of interests.
They of course had a very high opinion of themselves and their abilities. This was not matched by the results. The moneyball approach to transfers was a farce, sure, we can point to VvD and the like as successes but how many frogs did we kiss? How much time, effort and expense was wasted on this?
Time, effort and expense that could have been put to much more efficient use. It’s not that the policy in and of itself was wrong, it was because the scope wasn’t correct and it was run by people who did not have the skills to make it work.
We were told we were holding money to make the business resilient and that other Clubs were on shaky ground. Well Covid lay low that lie, far from being resilient with a great business continuity plan Celtic faired far worse than any top British Club, our Covid response was farcical.
Now…
Every income stream that the Board depended on was in place and setup by those who came before – the merchandising, the large stadium with the season ticket model, even a fledgling TV/media offering.
Brendan Rodgers had to rescue the season ticket model, Adidas has shown what the merchandising could achieve.
Brendan Rodgers showed by bringing on field success to Celtic that we had record turnover, record squad value and record profits.
Ange Postecoglou has laid low thee lie that there is no value in the transfer market and that good players will indeed come to Scotland.
New Rangers has laid low the lie that Scottish teams can’t be expected to compete in Europe.
All in all a combination of duplitious practice, self serving policies and incompetence has led to a generation of underachievement, the lies that allowed them to get away with it have been exposed as just that.
You may point to the legendary Generation of Domination – though I’ve asked many a time on here, I’ve yet to get an answer – who did we dominate?
Hail Hail
Good morning all from Govanhill.
Great sum up Chairbhoy.
KLV
Good morning CQN from a dry at the moment but grey skied Garngad
In my eyes the Celtic board are corrupt and therefor not fit for purpose.
They were complicit in the 5 way agreement and are complicit in the continuation lie of the DEED RANGERS. They also do not give 1 iota about the H & S of our players their staff.
PaulMcbridecsc
D :)
Chairbhoy @ 5:30
First class assessment of the last 20 years.
Chairbhoy
Spot on , well done you .
Good morning from a damp North Staffs –
Sftb and Chairbhoy – great contributions to the blog.
CHAIRBHOY on 18TH AUGUST 2022 5:30 AM
‘I’d suggest the deludomal, take fholk down a long wyndy brae, take a few forks on the path, muddying any waters on route and it might give the impression there is some logic hidden in your comments.’
###
Yeah I noticed that from the off. Hence my disinclination to get side-tracked into a disingenuous discussion about what constitutes a false analogy.
No one with a strong case to argue needs to use such an approach.
An informal gathering of the Shipbank Shipwrecks is taking place on Friday 2nd September at 1pm on Saltmarket Boulevard. Kindest regards- BRRB.
Happy hooooooopy birthday to Lennybhoy of this parish. KTF
ChB @ 5.30
You can stop running now — the ball is out the park and still rising.
You probably have too high a regard for the board — my view is that they are not “feral capitalists” they are fat / lazy / low energy fans loving the good seats and the club ties.
DD has their number — 30% to be fairly exact — that is the size of his shareholding and it is held by a guy who knows what he is doing / playing the very long game / has ego in the game / has control of most of our destiny.
The original EPL push is history — that was his positive view on things,
Plan 1999 — build a team and a profile that would challenge the top of the EPL.
Sliding doors moment in 2003 — us instead of Porto and it might just have worked.
He is now on the negative side — waiting for the EPL to stumble so that he can offer re-inforcements from North of the Border to add some 1314 / 1513 / 1707 spice to the mix.
Might have to wait — but his ego tells him that he cannot walk away.
The fact that he boycotts the club using any excuse possible tells us all we need to know about his engagement — not actively involved just waiting for something to turn up.
The issue he seems to have missed is that if we ever get the invite it will probably be to an EPL without its 6 biggest teams who will have jumped ship to some sort of EU Elite Super League with no effective EUFA control.
Super League — 67/74 — we would have got an invite.
2022 — no chance — the best we could hope for would be a North West feeder league fighting it out with B/G and Malmo
His only challenge now comes from AP — AP wants to make his mark in Euro football and is currently bursting a gut to try and get us a team / squad that can have a good go at this.
The issue for the Irish Raj is what happens if we start to move the needle in the CL?
Along with our friends in Govan and their crawl to Seville that might invigorate the support to demand more of the same and that takes DD out of his “waiting for the EPL” comfort zone — he would be facing a demanding / popular manager and a business that would need active management and more investment.
A good couple of years in the CL and the clamour for Main Stand investment would be hard to ignore. That needs time / effort / ambition / talent — stuff that we do not have too much of in the boardroom or at the higher executive levels.
For now at least.
DD can become an even richer man by putting the same effort into the club as the manager is doing at the moment.
Or DD can hold on as a dead weight in the boardroom and become an even richer man times two if the EPL boat ever comes in.
We could make it to the EPL through our own strength as in Plan 1999.
Or we could make the EPL through their own weakness.
One requires effort the other requires patience.
No marks for working out what the semi retired / low energy / golf buggy addicted DD will do?
Marker for later — do we need to sell active players now to bring in more / much needed talent?
I think that we are very close to having spent our budget.
Consequently AP is not being supported to the extent that we can afford.
That is why we are getting stories about active players leaving.
The agents know our situation and are shaking the EPL tree.
Could get messy — full story in 2 weeks hopefully.
Hopefully I am wrong.
CHAIRBHOY
👏👏👏👏👏💪
CHAIRBHOY
Excellent 👏
Morning all,
SFTB & Chairbhoy will make CQN an interesting day of comments !!
Chairbhoy,
You have certainly set the standard for today.
HH.
looking forward to the minis game – Mooy to start?
Chairbhoy – excellent analysis.
Yet, whilst you correctly point out that, ‘Brendan Rodgers showed by bringing on field success to Celtic that we had record turnover, record squad value and record profits’, he had a terrible record in Europe. Why? Sadly, Celtic cannot attract really established top players for 2 reasons:
1. The wages are mental.
2. The league is not attractive enough
Whilst Ange has brought in some smashing players, did we know them, and will they stay?
I am only an ordinary Celtic supporter and would not dare to claim to have any great insights, but in my simple view (and you skilfully highlighted how things are always more nuanced than they appear) the only way Celtic can compete at Champions League level is if they get into a different league structure. Then they will be able to really grow and forget all about Sevco etc.
HH
BELMONTBRIAN on 17TH AUGUST 2022 9:33 PM
Late Call in a Rev I M Jolly style. :)
The Wee (Big Barra) Martin, our bhoy, playing drums at the Kelvingrove bandstand with Ms Grogan last Saturday.
Nite all.
Brian.
https://youtu.be/7od7MGK0V6Y
======================================
Not on much these days but glad I read back this morning!
Well done Martin and doesn’t Clare Grogan look great for 60!
Hope you are well Brian!
People to take shopping!
Seeya!
It’s a shame there’s no archive search facility that we could use to see what people posted when the huns were going bust.
What posters predicted would happen, and how those predictions have panned out.
Archive goes back to Oct 2011
Just have a look at SFTBs post from yesterday.
He wanted the liquidated club kept in the SPFL.
SAINT STIVS on 17TH AUGUST 2022 8:51 PM
Bella Ciao
Thanks for posting that link last night.
I’m banging on about bias in the numbers again – yup, I have too much time on my hands
If you look at the first five fixtures before the derby game this season-
For each of the five fixtures –
award a number which corresponds to the position our opponent attained in the table in the 2021-22 season
I used the number 13 for Killie because they came from the championship
I have not scaled for home and away games
Celtic’s opponent number over first five games – 36
Newco’s opponent number over first five games – 45
The higher the number, the worse your opponent did last season.
I have NOT accounted for the fact Celtic have 3 away games and Newco have only 2.
Another example of demonstrable bias in the numbers.
I see Hearts ko at 6pm tonight – might have a watch while I’m ironing – who said men can’t multi-task
ScB @ 9.27
You are listening to the board groupies / excuse mongers too much.
Good players — the wages are not mental.
There is value to be had out there — just ask B/G.
Good players will come – just a case you might have to deal with more agents.
AP showed what a plan and a positive attitude can deliver.
If we go into a different / multi national league structure — how would we get into the CL?
First up more competition / second would EUFA allow any teams from an multi national league into the CL?
Atlantic League — sounds good on paper but it will be a CL dead end if EUFA take the huff.
BR = good but limited coach — doesn’t have the bandwidth to walk the SPL and chew the CL at the same time.
His teams were missing a bit of quality in defence and SB was on his last legs regarding CL opposition — his results showed how much we were missing VW in these games.
The CL is starting to open up.
We need to prepare properly for these games.
Things are looking better for us this season.
Two starters away from being serious contenders for CL credibility.
CL credibility = unbeaten at home / goals away from home.
Hopefully AP gets the backing he needs.
For every well thought out and excellent contribution from Chairbhoy and SFTB ………..
St tams
With the benefit of hindsight allowing them to stay in the Spl but with titles stripped might have been a better outcome than we have today.
But no way would I have voted for that then
Ernie
I’m assuming you’re searching the archives
Stx2 @ 10.12
Rationing your wisdom — good call.
GENE on 18TH AUGUST 2022 10:17 AM
Ernie
I’m assuming you’re searching the archives
##
Well as the saying goes, you should never assume because assume makes………….
I wasn’t even aware there is an archive, let alone a searchable one.
I’m sure many find the Blog interesting this last 24 hours and I acknowledge and Applaud the skill & effort that various Posters put into their Posts.
Personally I prefer to live in the now, Nicholson is our CEO, Ange is our Manager, We have recruited well since Ange arrived. We have a talented squad and are playing a very attractive Brand of Football,
My philosophy is Learn from past mistakes but don’t dwell in the past,
I have a feeling however that the current debate has a bit to run, so be it.
For me all Celtic had to do was make it clear that so far as CFC were concerned Sevco were a new club. That was entirely within Celtic’s power to do. I would have been satisfied with that.
Beyond that, it was up to Scottish football. I had no allegiance to anyone in Scottish football other than Celtic, so what the rest did about the situation was up to them.