The news yesterday that HMRC would appeal the decision by the First Tier Tribunal (FTT) to reject the part of their tax demand against former club Rangers which was still open to dispute was received by most with passing interest. The FTT returned a split decision, with the minority view giving HMRC substantial grounds for an appeal, and as we have heard often in recent years, HMRC always pursue tax under various circumstances. Reasons include when they believe wrongdoing has occurred.
As such, it seemed strange that The Rangers chief executive, Charles Green, issued a statement on the subject yesterday as the on-going tax dispute “will have no affect (sic.) on us”. He also wrote “in the strongest possible terms to HMRC pointing out the futility of such an appeal”.
If Green expects HMRC to read this letter and to countenance a change of tact he has a regard for his own abilities which are, frankly, a little curious. No mere mortal could write a letter and bring about any change in such a dispute, which leads us to another question, is Charles Green a mere mortal, or does his aim occasionally stretch beyond his reach? I’m sure we’re not dealing with a Self-Certified-Superman.
The point to this exercise is that while Green’s newco is not liable for another company’s taxes, his football club inherited the SFA place vacated by Rangers, including pesky football liabilities. Fifa and SFA rules on paying social taxes are clear – avoid them illegally and face disciplinary action.
As the matter is on-going, the football authorities have yet to issue any disciplinary action for the non-payment of taxes for the five players Rangers conceded to the FTT. Should the courts ultimately decide in favour of HMRC for the balance of players still being disputed, a fresh wave of disciplinary measures would be due against Green’s club.
Last summer we discussed how the toxicity which was attached to the club Craig Whyte inherited, and then relinquished in a worse state, would make going forward as a Newco with any connection whatsoever to the SFA membership of Oldco very difficult. Many, including the Blue Knights consortium, concluded it didn’t look viable.
It still doesn’t. Scottish football needs to consider how to deal with the long term consequences of these matters.
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KINGLUBO
10:11 on 6 February, 2013
I still don’t get it, Paul. Just what exactly is in it for Green. After all he’s a money man and sees an opportunity but I can’t see it under any circumstance. Maybe he’s smart and I’m thick! Just what is his long and medium term objective??
KINGLuBO
===============
Like you I’m totally puzzled on Green’s current position. I listened to the Tommy Glasgow podcast on Spreaker last night. He spent approximatley 45 minutes on the phone to a guy from Ticketus. The guy absolutely denied any knowledge of Ticketus being directly involved in Sevco but as Tommy stated this isn’t to say that there are not hidden investors previously involved with Ticketus discreetly involved.
Ollie (Ticketus guy) did state that when they had considered teaming up with TBKs they decided not to as there was just no way that money could have been made. He also reckoned you had to be mad to get involved with a football club let alone one in the 4th tier in Scotland.
I reckon Green has badly misjudged this from the start. He has also badly advised large investors with his sales speel and I wouldn’t be surprised if the rumours that some want out are true.
I also reckon that Green looked at how Fergus saved Celtic and walked away 5 years later a very rich man. I think he managed to convince himself that Sevco supporters would have been as generous as we were at the Share Issue (Big mistake). Sevco are also minus a couple of Rangers minded genuine Billionaires equivelent to ours.
I think , like many others, another insolvency will take place. They’ll come back again but with no where near the £6m/£7m playing budget they now run on. (£2m/£3m more likely)
northbhoy … \o/ at 09:28
The only interest is “don’t get injured”.
;o)
I think Greens PLan A was assuming they got allowed straight into the SPL and after that Plan B was for reconstruction to fast track them into the SPL.
I don’t think he has a Plan C!
starry plough
23:39 on
5 February, 2013
—
You were in my thoughts last night among others when reading BRTH,
HAIL HAIL.
Till later
sipsini
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
BRTH -Was worth the wait. Brilliant post.
Before I go
corsica1968@corsica1968
Quick musings on latest sevcovian nonsense as espoused by fountain of accuracy: the Daily Record
alzipratu
Quick musings on latest sevcovian nonsense
The Daily Record this morning carries an article in which Eoghainn MacLean (an advocate) argues that Sevco (or even Celtic) should take the FA to court under EU competition law in order to force a move to the English leagues.
OK, first up the only logical, legal and realistic place for them to start would be the bottom tier of English football which would mean at least 10 years of successive promotions before reaching the holy grail of the EPL. In Celtic’s case that might be possible if our billionaire shareholders dug deep and the fans were prepared to back it. In sevco’s case…well, let’s face it most reasonable and intelligent commentators think they’ll be lucky to get through 2013 as it is.
Secondly, it would appear that our advocate has forgotten a very basic principle of EU competition law; it only appplies to economic entities (or, businesses, if you prefer). Now, I know we have been over this time and time again and there is a certain level of disagreement but let us, for a minute, accept the sevcovian argument that the club and company are indeed separate entities. That would make the company an economic entity and the club, er,…..not an economic entity (if it was then it would have separate accounts, separate board of directors, separate company number, VAT number, etc, etc, etc.)
So, whilst RIFC plc could ply its trade in England (or Spain or Poland for that matter) if it were to pursue a claim and win (and let’s forget for the moment that there is actually no legal barrier to them trading anywhere they like in Europe right now), the football club could not as competition law would not apply.
Once again, the great club-company separation argument comes unstuck. Tomorrow, Chuckles Green argues (based on RFC(IL) precedent) that the UK government and HMRC have breached EU State Aid legislation by making sevco pay tax bills thereby generating unfair competition between sevco and rest of Scottish football.
leftclicktic
Thanks LCT, it’s going well, I’m happy and have a great group and sponsor…
BRHT
I’ve been struggling over whether to post this. I don’t want to take away anything from your heartfelt post.
But I feel it’s important to say that AA isn’t for everyone. You can get sober, and stay sober, even if AA isn’t the route you choose. I’m not going to start criticizing AA as undoubtedly many people have been helped over many years. For me though I just couldn’t follow it.
I need to believe that I have power over alcohol, by choosing not to drink.
The God of my understanding doesn’t exist.
Over the years I felt discouraged by people telling me that I was bound to drink if I couldn’t accept the tenets of AA. In fact I believe my journey to recovery took years longer than it had to due to the ubiquitousness of 12 step programmes when looking for help.
I’m writing this as I am fast approaching 2 years sober. I have got engaged, started driving again, and found a new job in the NHS. I am happier and more content than I ever thought possible.
So if anyone else out there finds that AA isn’t for them, don’t despair. Recovery is possible.
greenjedi
10:48 on 6 February, 2013
I don’t think he has a Plan C!
======================
But to be fair to the guy, his is one step better off than the Cardigan ever was – he never had even a plan B! LOL!
Folks
On The Rangers taking on the EPL, raise your horizons, think of them as a stalking horse that removes a barrier that UK citizens who support clubs in Scotland have to hurdle to survive never mind thrive.
That the EPL has damaged our game is self evident. If it is shown that this is being done illegally, whilst access to all clubs becomes a possibilty, there are alternatives once the gate has been opened.
Compensation for agreeing not to exercise our right to enter for example.
Giddyup Charlie.
partizan
10:55 on
6 February, 2013
Good man ……. It’s like everything else
leftclicktic
10:53 on
6 February, 2013
MacLean estimates the cost of any litigation at around £2M – seems to me he’s touting for a significant slice thereof!
If Scottish teams can play in the EPL what’s to stop English teams playing in La Liga or Serie A, or vice versa?
Interesting article on the Telegraph’s website
‘Richard III was a Catholic and should be buried in a Catholic church’
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/cristinaodone/
partizan: 10:55 on6 February, 2013
>>>>>>
Apologies for returning to ground well covered. Belabouring the point, I’ve been clean for a long time now. I don’t do ‘meetings’. In initial therapy I did. The 12 Steps are a good template for a rigorous self-examination of our addiction/s. It is not mandatory to continue attendance at meetings, nor are you denied the friendships and support you have found therein.
For me the first step is the most important, and is what keeps my life on track, and off the mad stufff. It can be that simple.
“We admitted we were powerless over our addiction – that our lives had become unmanageable”
HH!
Nonetheless, brth’s post is outstanding and people are already asking me if he would allow it to be re-printed to aid others in extremis.
partizan
10:55 on
6 February, 2013
Finger trouble…..LOL
Good man ……. It’s like everything else, with each person dealing with any problem in their own way…….(AA will be great for some)….I have a back problem, for example, and refuse to take pain killers….I ‘manage’ it by working on what ‘brings it on’ …….and only yesterday, discovered something very critical in that ‘management’….
BRTH is SOME MHAN though……his posts are so INSPIRING on any subject….!!!!!!!!
auldheid
11:11 on 6 February, 2013
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if the courts changed the rules and we joined EPL, with ‘them’ not fulfilling the criteria……LOL
Lifted from hunmedia.
sgfootball news: Glasgow Rangers is rumoured to have been invited to play the inaugural match against Singapore NT at the new National Stadium in
2014.
Will thems exist in 2014!!!
Partizan
Not looking for a scrap mate but can I ask you how did you manage to get sober??
The AA people I have known over the last 15 years or so have always been quick to pint out that it’s not the only way and that there are answers everywhere..
starry plough
11:33 on
6 February, 2013
Bit of a Freudian in that post!!!!
Down with the house of Windsor that bunch of fraudsters & chancer’s
Long live Michael Ibsen or King Mick the descendant of the Richard 111
;)
BobbyRussell
oops multi tasking fat fingers!!!
ye gotta laugh tho’
SP
Partizan
I can second your post ref AA.
I know a guy who got into a terrible state. Car wrecked, on the verge of losing his job etc. He tried AA and couldn’t get it to work for him. He saw plenty of people there for whom it was a lifesaver – but not for him.
He’s a couple of years sober now. His company have been superb. God knows where he would have ended up without the job to focus on. Though he did have to move out of town to get away from people and places that he wouldn’t be able to resist.
S
Boozing ?
My wee part of the world includes 2 Brits who describe themselves as alcoholics.
Both have told me that their reasons for moving to Sicily included their perception that it would be harder to be a drunk in Sicily . .
Sicilians drink but drinking to the point of being drunk is typically regarded as being very naff and very very sad .
Starry Plough
Sorry to say I have had exact opposite experience of most AA members. Have been told many times in no uncertain terms that 12 steps is only way to recovery. Now I can accept that it may be the only way for some. And useful for some others. But my point was that for me, and I think many others, it was not helpful.
I’m not really up for debating at length here. Any in depth debate on AA necessarily involves religion and philosophy. It wasn’t my intention to undermine anything BRTH wrote, which was very moving.
Over many years I had support from GP’s and councellors using things like CBT. I’m still not 100% sure how I managed to get sober. I think I probably reached my personal rock bottom. After a short home detox with Librium (my 4th) this time I couldn’t see how I could continue drinking. Lot’s of support form friends and family and work collegues was crucial.
After a few months I read a book called Rational Recovery, which I found very helpful. Well, cherry-picking it was helpful. There is also something called SMART, Self Motivated Alcohol Recovery Techniques, that had some appeal.
There is obviously a longer story which I don’t have time to tell. I’m not too sure how helpful my experience would be to others, except to say that whatever route you choose, you can leave alcohol behind.
new article posted.
PARTIZAN
Delighted to see you posting again-more often in future,please?
Highly delighted life is sweet for you now-you still in the NE?
Been off line for a few daysf ……Cannot remember to whom I made the promise about donating to Wee Oscar fund …… No goals for Raith Rovers £20 …… Donation made via Small change on just giving site ….. Just to let whosoever know as I would not like him/her think that ihad reneged.
Some hun wisdom? on winding up order.
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The club haven’t been slow at issuing denials and rebuttals under the current regime, so let’s hope that transparency continues in this case.
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Green needs to release a statement asap to clear it up.
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Oh FFS. Here we go again.
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When it rains it pours!
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Winding up order can simply be playing hard ball.
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Totally off topic but important to all Tims south of the border.
I understand the Celtic v Juventus game next Tuesday is being broadcast on STV – I don’t think we can get this channel in England..!! Does anyone know any different..?
Or if it’s also being broadcast on Sky or ESPN.
HELP please…
…………….Shortie awfie keen to show huns and former huns in their pictorial references of the national team……………
( thems goat it bad!)