Looking back it’s easy to spot; that moment when an imperious manager peaks before tumbling over the edge, but at the time this moment is almost impossible to see. The moment Jock Stein peered over the mountain was absolutely impossible to identify at the time.
Celtic qualified for the 1970 European Cup final by beating English champions, Leeds United, home and away, and were hot favourites to lift the trophy for the second time in four seasons. They were about to win their fifth consecutive league title and would go on to make record a world record nine-in-a-row, meaning there was a mountain of ‘evidence’ obscuring the peak from view.
We were the most feared side in football in April 1970 but that team’s time as a European heavyweight was over. Stein remained a further eight seasons but he never beat another team from one of the large European leagues. A 1975 win over a relatively obscure Boavista was his best result* in the period before he was replaced in 1978.
The reverence Jock is rightly held in by all Celtic fans now was tested during the 70s when I remember tactics and even minor decisions, like substitutions, were being questioned by large sections of the support. It all ended in ignominy in 1978, fifth in the league and sacked in a clumsy and misleading fashion.
Jock was still a good manager and did well with Scotland but he should have moved on from Celtic years earlier.
Fans of other clubs will always see the moment of inflection before those too close to the event, but even Arsenal fans are now politely making the case that their once-supreme manager is no longer suitable for purpose. Anyone suggesting that Arsene Wenger was finished in 2004 would have been certified. His team had just won the league undefeated, the first team to do so since the 19th century. They won the FA Cup on penalties the following season and reached the Champions League final a year after that, but they have not lifted a trophy since 2005. Wenger was a fine 2004 vintage but has disappointed since.
After a slow start at Manchester United, Alex Ferguson has managed to remain at the top for 20 years. His most important ability appears to be to know when to change coaches, players and tactics. It has long been said that the best managers were not great players as they needed to acquire a conscious insight on the game which gifted players inherently knew. Perhaps enduringly great managers are not even tactical geniuses, it’s more important that they can just spot a few.
Ordered the CQN Annual yet? Get it here in time for Christmas!
Remember being a teenager?** The excitement of waiting for news of the latest pop charts was big news for some. You can relive your youth buy BUYING ROD STEWART’S single before Sunday.
* In European competition, between beating Leeds and when Jock left in 1978, Celtic eliminated Kokkola, Waterford, B1903 Copenhagen, Sliema Wanderers, Ujpest Doza, Rosenborg, Turku, Vejle, Basel, Valur, Boavista and Jeunesse d’Esch. They lost to Ajax, Inter Milan, Ujpest Doza, Atletico Madrid, Olympiakos, Sachsenring Zwickau and Wisla Krakow. And Feyenoord, of course.
** CQN demographics suggest for most of you, your teenage years are now a distant memory.
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Stivs
I got 2 of the freebies for tomorrow mate.
……only because today in the UK is yesterday in Oz!
Dallas junior – eh?!
To paraphrase big Jock when he told Boaby Davidson back in the 70s –
“Yer faither would have been proud of you the day!”
HH!!
I’m hearing its the only way ht can get a gone to go with him :oD))))
A very happy birthday Kano.
Here’s to many more!
HH!!
Gone=anyone
:o)
Happy birthday Martin, all the very best to you, Caroline and the weans. email sent to you’re addy.
Vinny
playfusbal4dguilders-Sounds familiar mate.
Tally
Indeed it was.
I like the Kelly v White debate on the ‘Rapid Vienna replay fiasco’, that’s one I’ve always wondered about myself. My brother was against the replay to the extent he formed a substantial petition *somewhat fruitlessly* urging Celtic to give the tie to Rapid Vienna.
Sadly IMHO the Desmond White decision to have nearly 60,000 Celtic fans (myself included) travel to Manchester was a mistake.
SomeThinkKellyMayHaveToldThemToShoveTheReplayWhereItDon’tShine CSC
Happy Birthday Kano,a good Christmas to you and yours.
tallybhoy
17:27 on 14 December, 2012
………
Yir getting a Cqn annual like everybody else, that’s it bro :>)
complelety off topic, there is a very good insightful interesting and articulate comment on their share issue by a sevconian himslef on why he wont invest.
if you can stomach going on gersnet its up on newsnow,
they aint all taken in yet.
A sceptical review of the prospectus
GersNet 11:46
Bourne-I have always said we should have not played the game in Manchester,and taken any sanctions UEFA threw at us.I think we would have had widespread support ,but probably not from the SFA……
St Stivs
As promised.
http://imageshack.us/g/1/9775521/
http://imageshack.us/g/1/9775503/
http://imageshack.us/g/1/9775424/
MWD
Evening all
As always a thought provoking article and it is unusual to disagree with much of the content.
Firstly regarding the post Feyenoord era easily Celtic’s nest victory in Europe was over Ujpest Dosza in March 1972. Hungarian football may well be even worse than our own nowadays but forty years ago it – and their National team ( semi finalists in that year’s Euros)- was considered to be very good. We defeated them largely without wee Jimmy who appeared only late on in the 2nd Leg. Ujpest was , in my opinion, better than the Inter side which put us out on on penalties in the semi finals or Atletico Madrid who kicked us out two years later at the same stage.
As for Boavista – great night though it was buoyed by the joyous news that across the city Rangers were being outplayed by St Ettienne- the man in charge of the team was Sean Fallon ad Big Jock was still very much in the early stages of his post crash recuperation.
As I say an interesting and thought provoking piece but any suggestion that Jock should have moved on years before he did in 78 is one I disagree with. Unless he should have walked away and let it rot earlier than it did under the leadership of Big Desmond and those other charlatans who ran the club until 1994
H x 2
Tallybhoy
17:38 on 14 December, 2012
Dallas junior – eh?!
To paraphrase big Jock when he told Boaby Davidson back in the 70s –
“Yer faither would have been proud of you the day!”
HH!!
_________________________________________________________
Was it no – David Syme ?
Only asking as it was away before ma time :o)
Hail Hail
Marrakesh Express
You are right.
The Leeds games were the very pinnacle of the game at that time.
Remember that “at that time” there was pretty much a level playing field among all the European clubs (unlike today).
OK, the English, Italians, and so on were richer than us but not excessively so (unlike today), but we were up for the challenge.
In addition, there was non of the ridiculous seeding that ensures the same richest clubs are always as from the quarter finals, etc.
On that level playing field at that time, we were feared cos we were the best – it’s as simple as that.
Ajax came in and a new cycle started – that’s fair enough.
However, we threw that European Cup away against Feynoord.
That is my biggest regret as a Celtic supporter.
Getting beat in semi-finals is sore, but that final still hurts ten times more than Seville.
Still, it’s great to see Lenny and our young Bhoys doing so well, despite the odds that are stacked against us… as usual.
Gardez la Foi
Was there a conspiracy by the – MSM after the Argentina world Cup in 1978 – to cover-up the fact that – 1 of Scottish Football’s top ref’s of that season – JRP Gordon – had to resign in shame after getting caught – taking bungs/gifts ?
I think that I would be correct to say that – the wall 2 wall – coverage of the former Rangers player Willie Johnston who, was caught taking drugs – somehow managed to erase the news about the – corrupt ref ?!?!
Sumdy help me please !
Hail Hail
The goodwill was passed on!!!
That was nice of thems.
Do they really think they will ever be thought of by anyone outside of their poisonous ilk as nothing but a corrupt institution that walked away from their responsibilities to creditors and more significantly shamed Scottish football.
27 killed in US school shooting,what is it with these morons for God’s sake.
!!Bada Bing!!
17:58 on 14 December, 2012
_____________________________
Dear, dear!
Great managers over the edge – hmmm – will that be Peterhead or Montrose for Swally?
I was feeling tired earlier on, feeling my age.
Then I read back and now I feel like a young pup again didn’t know there were so many auld yins on here. If I have half the memories that you have of the hoops when I pick up the free bus pass then I will be delighted. Less than half even.
DJBEE aged 42 and 3/4
Kevjungle.
I’ve never heard of that.hh
God help us. Another massacre in an American primary school.
Eternal rest grant unto them. 27, including 18 children, killed.
Scott Brown
@ ScottBrown8
Great to see the kids at the Christmas party today all so excited just like tony watt for Santa coming #broonybanter
tallybhoy ………there am I having a nice afternoon with a compliment from Bournesouprecipe thrown in and you have to mention David Syme. I have a few tales to tell there and I believe you are correct that Jock was referring to his father. Neither had any time for Celtic- as they amptly demonstrated.
Congrats to Kano and Jungle Jim, mine was 12/12/12, strange I don’t feel any different today, hope it lasts………..might be the wine…….?????
Canamalar
You could be right.
A crack on the jaw at Tannadice, a dislocated shoulder at Pittodrie. It came to Tynecastle and no one wanted to sit beside me!! ;-)
Beyond evil gunning down innocent kids. Being allowed to happen on a daily basis in Syria in the name of politics right enough.
Prayers and thoughts.
Syme was the first referee to best guest of honour at the midden for the unfurling of a league flag.
Only in Scotland
What a feckin day, dropping of a birthday cake at Celtic Park nipped into garage, got to CP car wouldn’t start! Filled up 60 litres of petrol instead of diesel, what a dumpling! Pick up truck to garage and car drained then filled again with diesel, a cool £400, am a daft bassa, a skint daft bassa. Hospitality at the game tomorrow taking a tanking! Mon the hoops ramorra!
mwd, cheers, looking at the pictures again, great turnout and a sunny day.
people are worried about who is gonny follow in us old guys footsteps, but look how many youngsters were involved in the bucket day, they will keep it lit.
Aunty Patsy, this was what your looking for,
that god son of yours has turned into a right fat eejit.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/dsc02354r.jpg/
HT
You still taking it on the chin. Magnet nose, could you switch ends at half time and watch future games behind big FF? I think its the least you can do.
Sceptic sally comments on how a team from the top teir struggled against a team from one of the lower teirs on snyde.
His yearly income is probably more than all footballing incomes in the third division put together outwith sevco.
kikinthenakas. I know the feeling pal, have done it twice in my lifetime.
sipsini
18:02 on 14 December, 2012
_____________________________
Well, ye have now :o)
Naw, seriously….that particular ref/mib sticks out in my mind as he did the ne’erday clash when we visited ibrokes that season 1977/78.
What a scumbag he was !!!
It was Mr Stein’s last season and, the decisions in this game alone led to very frightening atmosphere at the Celtic end. at one point….the Celtic players all gathered on the halfway line in front of the dug-out to ask Mr Stein if they couls all walk off the pitch – so unbelievable was the cheating that day.
I was only a young lad, standing down at the front of the terracing and, the missiles rained down for almost the entire game !!!
There were several break-ins from the Celtic fans during a hate-filled performance from an absolute B#STARD of a mason in black !!!
No doubt he was ahigh ranking member of the establishment…hence the burial of the news of his being caught – red-handed – pardon the pun :o)
HH
Sixtaeseven@17.53pm
I agree with you. The loss in Milan was my greatest disappointment in following Celtic although up to that point the 2-0 defeat by Jock Stein’s Dunfermline in the Cup Final replay was crushing probably because it presented the club with a real opportunity to win one of the 2 major honours. Celtic were always perceived as a cup team and I had grown up on stories of great victories.
Interesting historical perspective. Within just a few years on from that night Celtic became European Cup winners and within the decade appeared in another Final so finished runners-up.
Night is darkest just before the dawn!