Out of the Champions League qualifiers at the hands of a team with a smaller budget than ours, for the second season in succession. Where did it all go wrong? Two shortcomings stand out: team planning and tactical strategy.
I’ll take the latter first. We had 60% possession last night, a remarkable figure for an away European game which was lost. We dominated possession, didn’t score a goal and conceded twice (for the fourth time in five games).
Let me take you back a few years to a Dominik Diamond TV interview with Martin O’Neill, then Leicester City manager, in 1999. O’Neill laid plain his tactical philosophy, “My teams have big guys who know how to defend, they have players who can throw dangerous balls into the box, and players who can get on the end of those balls and put them in the net”.
A year later, when Martin came to Celtic, it was like going to school as we watched the observance of these very rudimentary rules transform our club. His defenders could defend, he had wide players who could throw dangerous balls into the box, and strikers who knew where the goal was. Martin’s teams never dominated possession against a European peer, never mind a team who beat them so comfortably.
It doesn’t need to be explained that there was no team in the world who could score three times from corner kicks against the Celtic team of a decade or so back. Today, team planning has insufficiently focussed on a few fundamentals of the game: know how to defend, know how to translate possession into chances, and have a handful of players in the team who know where the goal is. This is the fittest, fastest, Celtic team I have ever seen, but we looked like busy fools last night.
Ronny Deila’s post-match comments about the team being scared was an instant reaction to the defeat, but it’s worth digging into what prompted this perception. There were actually many occasions when Celtic players showed for a pass, the Uefa possession and completed pass stats conform this, but what we never did was boss the middle of the park.
In yesterday’s blog I asked Celtic to own the park as I have had a worry about this aspect for a while. This is different from covering a lot of ground (we do that), or being able to make a pass (we do that too). We have Scott Brown (runner) and Nir Bitton (passer) in central midfield. I like both but we need extra bite in this area. Celtic’s most effective period over the last decade was when we had Wanyama and Brown central-mid. The role Wanyama fulfilled has been sacrificed for the player in the hole behind the lone striker.
Players of Wanyama’s calibre are not common, and we shouldn’t go 4-3-3 if all we have is a Kayal to fill the additional central midfield space, but Brown and Bitton are not enough in central midfield in Europe. It’s also clear that selection for the four advanced positions (the 3-1) has been so fluid since the start of the season we’re clearly not cohesive in that area of the field either.
For me, if it’s Brown and Bitton, and I think it should be, we need another Brown-Wanyama influencer. Think back to our last Champions League group to consider the prospect of playing a European game without Scott Brown. At the very least we need cover for him, but in Europe we need two in his position. Go 4-3-3.
So much for tactical strategy, what about team planning? For the third August since parting company with Gary Hooper we are hawking around for a striker. Gary’s not a panacea, so I’ll ignore him as a prospect for now, but while Leigh Griffiths has performed beyond the call of duty, we are, again, out of the Champions League without having any idea who our primary striker will be this season.
We are in a loop of mistakes, and frankly, the most likely next action is that we respond by recruiting an identikit of the many strikers who have passed through Parkhead gates in recent years. We know enough about this problem to be aware that it’s our primary challenge, yet we have been unable to overcome it.
In my State of the Club blog at the start of the season I cautioned that we’d swapped Gordon Strachan’s soft spot for recruiting from Hibs, for a desire to see stars at Dundee United. Ciftci, Mackay-Stevens and Armstrong have been our primary recruits for advanced positions in 2015. Only one won a place in the starting line-up last night, leaving us relying on players who struggled to get in the team a year (or longer) ago.
Ronny Deila may well be able to polish Dundee United players into top performers at Celtic, but we didn’t recruit the finished article. We should have known this, and should have been aware that our August cup finals would have made calls on bit-part players from recent seasons.
We will find the occasional Champions League player in Scotland, but you can’t raid a mid-table SPFL team and expect to leap to the very top table in the game. This team planning strategy always looked vulnerable and it’s proven to be.
On the money side, you know my views. Over any business period you pay what comes in, no more and no less. We’re losing to team who spend less than us, not more, and on this occasion a team who picked up a player we discarded.
On just as important matters………
The golfers among you have three days to buy a raffle ticket – for £1 only – to win a round of golf at the fantastic Aberdour Golf Course for four people! Check it out here on ebay. Money raised (by Taggsybhoy) will go to the Foundation. This important work, always needs to be done, win, lose or draw.
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Should have said DIDN’T stick to the mantra.
I think Deila was 100% correct last night, the players did hide. There’s no getting away from that. We might have had more possession and passed it around more often but it was square passes from the back or passes to players who gave it straight back.
Brown and Johansen were completely off the boil last night, neither showed for the ball (Brown did when it was too late in the last ten minutes). Biton tried but was lacadasical when receiving it and got worse as the evening wore on. There were dozens of occasions where players had it in wide or full back positions, there was plenty room for a midfielder to run into to open up a pass but they stood still, behind their man, allowing the fullback to be pressed and the ball to be launched or hurried back the way. That is what RD means by stressed and fear.
I don’t think the midfield trust the defence this season and it’s no wonder, Boyata so far has shown far less conviction and just as mistake prone as Ambrose. From the first whistle Mulgrew was nowhere near his man and did not have the pace to match him, it’s a shock they only scored from corners.
The zonal marking has to go, they had it susses even in the last leg, have some players stand on the keeper and the defender and then other have a run on it, the defenders are occupied and can’t get a good leap.
Too many passes behind a player instead of in front.
James Forrest actually had a decent game, maybe the only player aside from Gordon and at times VVD.
Griffiths was ineffective. He can (usually) finish but he’s not got enough other qualities to make a defence fear him in Europe.
I will agree on Paul67 in that the front 3 are not fluid, there’s no partnership there.
The stats may say we had possession and more passes but the passes were poor passes and the possession ineffective, players hid, didn’t want to take on responsibility causing others around them to lose the ball, try things they shouldn’t have and generally not help each other out.
We needed leaders, winners, sadly we might have so decent young players but we don’t have natural or experienced winners in the team.
We consistently spent too much on wages for mediocre players. We get into the spiral of paying players too much money, meaning anyone new coming in wants to match their salary with the high earners. Teams like Porto spend a lot more on transfer fees but a fraction of the wages.
4-3-3 may be the way to go but usually that’s how we play as Johansen plays from the middle into the hole, last night he just wasn’t involved.
Disheartened because we will sell VVD, our defence will then have gone from being solid and at times classy last season to inexperienced and shaky this season. Midfield will hopefully be able to sort themselves out but we don’t have a top class striker. Ciftci did show more in his ten minutes than Griffiths probably did all night last night but it’s not enough.
WGS
Apols, I should have been clearer.
The UCL Access system and Scotland’s diminished coefficient coincide with the period from 2009/10. That’s the marker on the timeline, rather than WGS in isolation.
We’ve had 6 seasons where we’ve attempted to qualify for one or both of UCL and EL in that period, and with assorted disqualifications, we’ve had 8 chances in all. We’ve succeeded twice.
In all of that time, we have never faced a team with the same or greater financial muscle.
This entire season we have struggled in the attacking third.
Last night was more of the same.
We seem not to have been coached in that area of the field.
Defensively we lack a leader.someone who calls the shots and reacts to whats happening on the field.
I think Biton is a fine player but not the answer as a holding mid.His tackling is poor and he often gets caught on wrong side of man.
The front two in Ronnies diamond also have to be more creative.
If VVD goes and i think the time is right we should sign a central defender with experience as we lack savvy and leadership in that area.
On saturday young O’Connel showed more leadership than any of our other defenders have this season.He just needs a mentor and could be a future captain.
If someone had told me after half an hour last week that we wouldn’t progress I wouldn’t have believed them. We should’ve finished the tie, but Ronny didn’t seem to know wether to attack or defend at 2-0 and 3-1.
I don’t know what he told the players to do last night – performances don’t come much worse. It all stemmed from the way we started the game – no urgency, looked as though our players were told to time waste from the start and Bitton in particular was far too casual on the ball – we started the match too relaxed and too slow and Ronny wasn’t able to get us going after we went behind.
Mulgrew didn’t look fit, Boyata has a touch of the ambrose’s about him, brown done nothing and James Forrest just runs into players. Griffiths was isolated up front. Johansen’s performance was just baffling.
When you can’t beat the likes of Maribor or Malmo over two legs then it’s pretty clear you don’t deserve to compete at the top table.
Looks like it’ll be an SPL slog, probably win one of the cups and struggle to get out a Europe league group in front of half full stadiums. Zzzzzzz.
The single most important reason why Celtic failed last night, complacency!
Sadly, (SD)Murray-esque levels of hubris has permeated all levels of the club, and this blog more than contributes to this malaise.
It won’t be long before a SDM-esque level of hubris appears on this blog.
Oh well!!!
Back to very occasional lurking and much more importantly, getting my first sub3 at Dublin in 8 weeks
The Malmo manager won the game last night.
We play the same way every game and they bossed the middle of the park.
Losing 3 goals to corners is shocking. Our opposition in Scotland will have noticed.
Get rid of Ronny?
Sorry, but that rather overlooks that his performance is on a par with pretty much every manager we’ve had since the Bunnet built the stadium.
Ronny Deila is not the common denominator in our 1:4 qualification record.
Has anyone thought to wonder after last night’s very disappointing display a nightmare day @ the office
that we where playing a team who are half way through their Season? Yeah we are all hurting from last
night & defeat/being dumped out of a major competition is a bitter pill to swallow sure we will have our
set backs along the way but lets take a reality check here we all know our Club can perform a lot better
than what was on show last night we all know & common sense will show that our Club board is not going
to go out & splash millions of pounds for half a dozen matches or so in Europe a Season when the bigger picture shows the long term financial stability of our Club is a more sensible/wiser option. Yes MON did
show that strong good teams are built from the back as for zone-marking? In my opinion man marking
is more effective than covering certain areas of the 18 yard box @ set play we will bounce back from this
Season’s major set back & we will be a lot more wiser & know what to expect when the same opportunity
presents its self next Season that is for sure hail hail everyone & come-on-the-Hoops.
P.S. I’m not a fan of that new European away strip one needs sun-glasses viewing that (too bright) pity
there was not a electrical power cut last night because if there was then I’m sure the Bhoy’s would have
managed to see each other in the dark with those strips on although the way they where playing even
with a black out they still would have struggled to put the ball in the onion bag
Changing the manager with the current Board Strategy ( or lack of) is futile.
It would only result in same story different manager. We realistically aren’t going to change the Board so the Board need to change ( or develop) their strategy.
The focus should not be on attainment but attendance – provide a product that will fill the stadium – this will in turn create revenue that will help attainment.
Right now the strategy is buy cheap sell dear or write off. Consequently we are downsizing achievements and attendance.
Personally – I’d like a new CEO who’s bonus is linked to attendance.
TCR story
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/im-lucky-to-be-alive-says-man-beaten-for-his-phone-31479670.html
CAPTAIN BEEFHEART on 26TH AUGUST 2015 11:53 AM
I get fed up with the lazy assertion that a Tony Donnelly (only an example Tony, not having a go at you) is a bigger supporter than some of our more critical posters.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/malmo-v-celtic-live-updates/comment-page-40/#comments
I know your not having a go, but I need to defend myself, not by any stretch of the imagination do I or would I think I’m better than any Celtic supporter, far from it, my point was, I posted I was 100% Celtic in everything, mind you not all the time as nothing is perfect, it’s the constant moaners, same mob, same sheet, they are sitting there honestly wanting and waiting on Celtic to get beat, so they can pedal their agenda, I’ve seen them at AGMs I know who they are, and they know who I am, and I honestly couldent give a monkeys about them, but as I’ve said many many times, I will defend my club at every opportunity if I should feel to do so,, call it what you like, I just call it as I see it. That’s Tony Donnelly, I’m not a bad person, I may not agree with everyone nor them with me, but I’m a Tim of that there is no doubt, others in here? I have my doubts.
Lurking Huns GIRFUYs
The Battered Bunnet 1237-
I think it is looking more and more like 2012/13 was an outlier year that bucked the long term trend of Celtic being mediocre in Europe.
Since Gordon Strachan`s last season, we have been on a largely downward slope. In 2008/09 we automatically qualified for the CL and came bottom in a group containing Man Utd, Aalborg and Villarreal.
In 2009/10 I`m discounting the qualifiers as we had to go through the CL non-champions route, an impossible task. We failed to progress from a EL group that was topped by Hapoel Tel Aviv. We were out of contention for qualification by matchday 4, and contrived to go 0-3 down by half time in Vienna in the final match although we fought back to 3-3 in the end.
2010/11 qualification defeats to Braga (CL) and Utrecht (EL).
2011/12 defeat at EL qualification to Sion. 2nd chance in group stages but deserved 3rd place finish.
2012/13 – CL qualifying success v HJK Helsinki and Helsingborgs. Excellent group stage performance.
2013/14 – Almost put out CL qualifiers by Karagandy. Pumped mercilessly by a really poor Milan team and Barca and bottom of the group.
2014/15 – Pumped by Legia and beaten by Maribor at CL qualifiers. 2nd in EL group stages.
So I make that since 2008/09-
CL Group stages
2nd – Once
Bottom – Twice
EL Group stages
2nd – Once
3rd – Twice
CL qualifiers (counting only 3rd qualifying round and play-off)
Played – 9
Won – 5 (HJK, Helsingborg, Elfsborg, Karagandy, Qarabag)
Lost – 4 (Braga, Legia Warsaw, Maribor, Malmo)
EL qualifiers
Played – 2
Lost – 2 (Utrecht, Sion)
Won – 0
So we`ve lost more 2 legged winner takes all ties than we`ve won over this period.
We`ve been on the end of some right thumpings (Legia 1-6 aggregate, Milan 0-3 at home, Utrecht 0-4, Braga 0-3, Juventus 0-5 aggregate) as well as sound defeats to moderate opposition in the 2nd leg of ties that had been in the balance (Sion 1-3, Malmo 0-2)
It looks to me we became mediocre in Europe towards the end of Strachan`s tenure, stayed that way during the Mowbray era, were still mediocre for much of Neil Lennon`s time, the outstanding 2012/13 season excepted, and we`re still mediocre now. Its not a new problem and many teams and managers have come and gone, but we still remain largely poor in Europe.
Hi Paul67,
Good analysis, there’s a few points where I’d like to comment – later on, for now suffice to say…
It is totally necessary for the future of our Club that we have a strategy that enables us to take on teams like Malmo with confidence. UCL football is no longer a plus, if we want to stay within the radar of the top European Clubs it’s a must. It is doable and we must find a way of making it a reality.
————————————————
BTW Didn’t see the match last night, was busy, so once again thank you to the ghuys for the CQN updates…
No thanks to the guys who came on in the last twenty minutes with the egotistic, agenda driven nonsense. These comments are NOT updates.
CQN have been giving updates on matches for over ten years now. There’s Paul and the ghuys who provide the platform, there’s the ghuys that take the time to give comments while watching the games, many excellent and insightful, that is a huge plus for the Tims that don’t have the privilege of seeing/listening to the match.
I had 1 minute on 3 or 4 separate occasions to come onto the blog to see what was going on when 2-0 down in the last 20 minutes of an hugely important game and while I was praying for a goal to get us back in… As I’m sure all real Celtic supporters were, the blog was filled by the told you so’s, the crass uniforming critics, the agenda merchants.
Some guy criticising the team while admitting he wasn’t even watching the match/listening to the game, he was getting updates eh!?
Others who had time when most of us were biting our fingernails down to the quick, could knock out three paragraph critiques – not of the game I might add. Then there’s the I told you so and so’s.
The Live updates are for live match updates, a lot of us appreciate them. There are plenty other times for the nonsense…
So IMO, if you are NOT giving updates you shouldn’t comment during the game.
Hail Hail
Paul67. If we ideed spent what we earnt then we would be better off
But we sell and keep the money in bank for the AGM balance sheet
To get out out of CL last season then show we have cash in the bank at AGM but never spent is just wrong wrong
We should be very concerned we will sell VVD and we have Boyata who looks very like efe on a bad day mistake ridden we have lost poor goals recently goals I dont think we would have lost last season. We could well be sleep walking into more gubbings depending who we get in the Europa League . With Aberdeen and Hearts challenging us in the league we may find it harder to win the league than previous years.I can see plenty of disappointment in front of us and no real money invested in the team. H.H.
Declining standards continues.
An over arrogance of our capability .
Team formations that leave us very vulnerable.
A lack of decent goal scorers .
The team about to be further weakened by the sale of our best player.
A naive and arrogant management team.
We are about to have a sharp intake of cold fresh air.
A shocking drop from warm to freezing air temperature followed by the sharp sting of a slap to the bare arse.
Better buck up Celtic .
It is not impossible for this Celtic side to fail to win the SPFL title.
Shambolic defense ,
Impotent strike forceNaive tactics.
Unable to retain the ball.
Malmo must be licking their lips, and Aberdeen lie quietly going about their business.
How much stick did Tiny Tim take for this post
Let’s just hope we take lessons from the EL (and maybe do a decent job in it). The players we have left need all the experience they can get.
Nikola Durdic and Vladimir Rodic outshone all our players last night (sadly as did Berget who really made the difference in both games). I’m usually quite happy with our midfield but they were borderline cowardly last night. I hate to say it but that’s the way I see it. Nobody willing to put their foot on the ball or show for a pass.
… we also NEED a striker who can score from a cross. It doesn’t need to be headers just get on the end of a bloody ball from out wide! There are so many chances that go a begging.
Paul -=do you mean we recruit the wrong positions, or from the wrong
place
Id stick with Ronnie but I’d jettison Collins immediately.
Maybe also time to push for summer football. The pros outweight the cons ten-fold.
Very disturbing to read that article in the Irish News about the assault on TCR, you are in our thoughts, Danny.
HH,
Clogher.
Malmo qualified last year then sold half their team, rebuilt & qualified again on a third of our budget. They are obviously much better better planners than we are.
‘Where did it all go wrong?’
The appointment of peter lawwell.
His annual gamble never came off and we are out of the CL, the man is a power mad egotistic madman hell bend on earning his bonus over all else.
If we are being as well run as we are told why couldn’t we make the signings required for last night’s vital qualifier?
Get him to f**k
CQN and CQNers support of the conniving swine over the years have not helped in any of this.
Paul67
I remember a very strong squad expensively assembled by MON in 2002 going out at the same stage.
When we play teams at a higher level than SPL we are likely to get beat
Those who want increased competition must understand that Celtic teams will get beat outside our wee bubble
Last night was hard to watch but it wasn’t the end if the world in 2002 and it’s not now!
HH
Celtic always.
Deila never.
problems lie with the manager,
Inexperience
Style of football
Formation
signing’s
ETC ETC ETC
p
Just a numb hurt today – at least I got my wish that it was a reasonably decisive defeat and not a what-might-have-been.
We ought to look at these strikers who are flops – Pukki, Berget, Murphy and now Scepovic. They all seem to thrive when they’ve left (Scep hasn’t left yet) but I’m sure he will. I always think of Stan Petrov and the way he was left to fend for himself when he arrived at Celtic. If Scepovic is sold, I’m sure he would do well elsewhere. Even Boerigter if he stayed fit.
We have good players on paper but they’re not used to playing even half decent teams. The problem isn’t of fitness but being switched on mentally. There were so many passes intercepted last night because the passer hadn’t looked up properly beforehand.
Until the SPL improves, it’s going to be like this. I would imagine the Swedish league is on a par with the English Championship where apart from ourselves, the other SPL teams wouldn’t be able to cut it.
A lot of our idea of Celtic is based on the home form. But CP on a European night usually encourages the team to play well above their capabilities. The away matches are probably a better indicator of our quality.
And lastly, MON had many awful performances in Europe as well.
Hopefully last nite spells the end of that cringeworthy Ronny roar when we beat the Ross county’s of this world away from home. Your mission is to get to CL Ronny and you have failed 3 times against mediocre/rubbish opposition. – Legia, Maribor, and Malmo.
UEFA make it ‘easier’ for us by this seeded route. If they ever change that we will never see CL football again.
That’s 2 strikes for Ronny. If he fails next year he has to go. That’s providing we win title! Aberdeen and hearts will run us close with that current defensive set up we have minus VVD.
On the Champions route we are in as good a place as we’re ever going to be, seeded.
Next year we’ll drop off the horrendous Utrecht year and we already have more points from this campaign so will improve our coefficient. We came a wee bit close for comfort to not being seeded this year, I’d imagine no issue next year.
So then you’re down to the luck of the draw, The Albanians or Kazakhstanis would have been poorer opponents, we may have progressed. Well at least more likely, no guarantees having watched last night!
We do have an impending issue in 2 years when the Barca year drops off. Unseeded in the Champions route would be dreadful, and a potential spiral down.
So the Europa this year is important. For momentum, feel good, another big night or nights in the knock outs, experience, cash… and coefficient points to improve our chances of getting to subsequent Champions leagues.
For the record, coefficient is made up if
2011 2.2200
2012 5.5500
2013 16.8600
2014 6.6500
2015 7.8000
We’re going to need a couple of 9s to prepare for losing the 2013 high.
In terms of getting into the 2nd round automatically let alone the qualifier there’s no realistic prospect while our colleagues across the country get pumped out by minnows year on year.
It’s a system designed to promote inequality and it stinks, but other than walk away then we get behind the team and make our own history.
Mon the hoops.
Why was Armstrong taken off at HT?
Was he injured? He didn’t seem to be doing any worse than anyone else and he does cover a lot of ground.
We are a Europa League team charging Champions League prices.
On the plus side there are some cracking teams in the Draw so we could end with with a Champions league type qualifying group. It could end up as exciting as the SPFL Championship was last year , now that was a league to outshine all others !
I’ve been lucky enough to witness ten men winning the league, Paisley in 86, semi Final against Hearts and the subsequent Final. Also went through their nine in a row which was painful to say the least. I’m hurting today, but not so much for myself as for our supporters (my son included) who are watching a Celtic team that don’t seem to realize what we’re all about. Ive been to many away European games when we’ve not done the business but last night was a poor performance given the opposition. Personally don’t think we’re good enough for Champions League. Hope it improves but I find myself living on past glories.
HH
Where did it go Wrong..?
While Ronny had an affirmative weekend, winning away at Tannadice, Hareide had to face up to his public defeated, increasingly unlikely to retain the league title. A run of three victories before visiting Celtic Park, has morphed into two consecutive defeats. A four point deficit became seven points, with nine games remaining. They are five points from a Europa League spot next season. In short, Malmo are one bad result from the collapse of their season.
No mention of Malmo playing there Last 9 Champions League Home games without Conceding ONE Single Goal..?
Summa
from top to bottom…
Board – haven’t invested money after ereaching last 16 and selling Forster and wanyama. Had to sign some first team players .not squad players.. Buy players after the Champions league matches…Why then? too late we were very lucky against Karanday
Scout…wasted nearly £10M on dross up front..Pukki..Balde..scepovic (who I like but they won’t play) Boerigter, Cifti Why sign a player who cant bed in for mot important part of seaason ands who isn’t better than stokes.
Manager …sent out a team to not lose.. Mulgrew slows down attacks…
substitution was poor Armstrong had got to byeline a few times Johanson has been poor all season but always gets picked.
Players… Didn’t belive in themselves and some HID! Scott Brown and Johanson.. the rest gave up afet 2nd goal.. just needed one goal to make them nervous. And why won’t we shoot!!!!!!Brown and Mulgrew and 2 great chances just to shoot from inside box and tried toi dribble.
Keeper..good at saves crap at crosses…should shove own players out of the way in 6 yard box.
Fans All thoise who walked out with 15 minutes to go at arkhead..You could see the effect iot has on players..
Drambowiecelt
In response to your wee comment from sometime last night, unfortunately I never got as far south as the Andes and Peru to take in the game so I’ve still got to meet anyone of Inca descent. Plenty of Mayan descent here though and probably a wee bit more educated than you footballing wise. But you never know I might stumble across some claiming Inca heritage and getting all tearful and melancholy while singing their songs of freedom and claiming it’s all a secret Mexican conspiracy why their forefathers never survived
Did RD explain why Forrest who was in total charge of R wing in first half was moved to left?
commons seemed to play RW instead of his usual bhd CF!
Anyway those players from last night the only storm they are likely to walk through for you …….is when their wives or birds find oot they have been rogering the lassies from behind the make up counters of Frasers in the more upmarket lavvys of Glasgow s nightlife……but I don’t think the Blane Valley comes into that category so some of you can rest easy