Where is this relationship going?

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Signing young players on loan has worked well for Celtic in the recent past: Patrick Roberts and Odsonne Edouard, being good examples.  While others, like Charly Musonda, failed to make the grade.  Musonda had talent (you remember that chip against Zenit), but he never looked up to the physical challenges of the professional game.

When Celtic sign the likes of Timothy Weah on a short-term loan, our initial thought is, “Where is this relationship going?”  Will the loan be extended, as it was for Roberts, or end in a purchase, as it did for Edouard, or will this be a one-off gig?

Weah appears to have abundant talent but his chances of breakthrough at PSG are limited.  Mbappe, Neymar and Cavani head an illustrious list of strikers at a club always looking to add to their squad.  It is more likely that the Paris club will look to build Weah’s value at Celtic in the hope of earning an inflated transfer fee.  This practice is how all tier-one clubs operate and underpins their Financial Fair Play credentials.

It is important for Celtic to build a squad – to manage our assets.  The try before you buy model, used effectively with Edouard, works well in this regard.  Building relationships with PSG or Man City, who know their players can gain necessary experience and appreciate in value, means we remain a valuable option for future deals.

But we also need to win football games, irrespective of more strategic concerns, even if there is no long-term relationship with the player.  Sometimes it is OK for a relationship not to last beyond the summer.

Welcome to Celtic, Timothy.

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340 Comments

  1. The hands cant hit what the eyes cant see on

    @ WHAT IS THE STARS on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:20 PM

     

     

    I would guess as much, but Lawwell is probably our highest earning employee ever, are we getting our money’s worth?

     

     

    I feel that BR makes Lawwell look a lot better than he is and even then we have had a fall out between the two; i know which one i feel is more valuable to the club.

  2. thomthethim for Oscar OK on

    WITS,

     

     

    You shouldn’t waste your time arguing with closed minds, who see anyone who has “done good” for themselves, usually due to parental sacrifices to ensure a good education.

     

     

    At a time like this, when it is open War between Celtic and the combined forces of Scottish football, media and civic authorities, we still get bombarded on here and elsewhere from Tactical experts, Financial experts and a whole host of frustrated DJs.

     

     

    All admirable Peace Time topics, but surely when we are under such an onslaught, last seen in the Dougie, Dougie era, we, as a support should be solidly behind Celtic and devising ways to show that support.

     

     

    Our enemies lie in Hampden , aided by all other institutions in the country.

     

     

    We need to find common ground with supporters of other clubs, instead of insulting their hospitality with parts of our outdated, outmoded song book, sung specifically to offend.

     

     

    Anyway, bottom line.

     

     

    What is more important, the battle on the pitch or the War off it.

  3. Had Bayo signed for Sevco, we could look forward to rave reviews about this exciting talent who was about to take the SPL by storm. If his first few games were a disappointment, we would be reading of how his remarkable talent was obvious but he just needs a little time to adjust to the SPL.He would be considered a wonderful buy by Sevco ( that reads well !).

     

    It will be interesting to see how the MSSM respond to the fact that he has signed for Celtic. It will be equally interesting to see if Celtic supporters then echo those `opinions`.

     

    JJ

  4. Do we need a left back as well if KT is going to be out for a while??

     

    If we cannot get a left back in I would play Johnny Hayes there to see how he gets on.

     

     

    COYBIG

     

     

    D. :)

  5. TTT @5:25

     

    I totally agree. Celtic plc are way down the list of those we should be gunning for.

     

     

     

    ” THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:19 PM

     

    Well now Bayo is signed, time to turn our attention to the defence.”

     

     

    Good to see you mentioning our most recent signing….for a nano second.

     

     

    JJ

  6. The hands cant hit what the eyes cant see on

    @ THOMTHETHIM FOR OSCAR OK on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:25 PM

     

     

    “You shouldn’t waste your time arguing with closed minds, who see anyone who has “done good” for themselves, usually due to parental sacrifices to ensure a good education.”

     

     

    Assuming the comment is (partially) aimed at me. Couldn’t be more inaccurate if you tried. Evidently you are unable to contribute on the substance of the discussion so resort to a banal and spurious statement.

  7. The hands cant hit what the eyes cant see on

    @ HOT SMOKED on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:36 PM

     

     

    My statement isn’t wrong. Good work done so far but more to be done. Disagree if you like.

  8. TIMHORTON

     

    mit

     

    saintstivs

     

     

    I went to see Bohemian Rhapsody and was very surprised to discover later that it had received poor reviews.I am puzzled at to what those reviewers were expecting from a film about Queen.

     

    I certainly enjoyed it.

     

     

    JJ

  9. Big Georges Fan Club - Hail, Hail, Wee Oscar on

    WHAT IS THE STARS on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:15 PM

     

    3 signings – 8 days

     

    Lawwell wasting all our hard earned cash….the feckin loony

     

    ———————-

     

     

    :-)))

     

     

    HH

     

    BGFC

  10. Big Georges Fan Club - Hail, Hail, Wee Oscar on

    Jambalaya, crawfish pie and fillet gumbo

     

    For tonight, I’m-a gonna see my ma cher a mi-o

     

    Pick guitar, fill fruit jar and be gay-o (if that’s yer thing))

     

    Son of a gun, we’ll have big fun with the Bayo

     

     

    HH

     

    BGFC

  11. The Hands

     

    Of course I don`t disagree with your statement but I would have thought that you could have been a tad more magnanimous in celebrating our latest signing.

     

    JJ

  12. What is the Stars on

    Hands cant Hit

     

     

    I dont think Thom was necessarily having a go at you

     

    There is a constant stream of anti lawwell stuff on here.

     

    None of its rational

     

    Maybe he is overpaid…But take that up with Dermot Desmond…

     

    Celtic are in their healthiest ever financial position and have won 2 domestic trebles back to back..

     

     

    Do you not think it even the slightest bit irrational to be slagging off the CEO at this stage???

  13. THOMTHETHIM

     

    Is part of the discontent not due to the boards seeming unwillingness to tackle the corruption in Scottish football?

     

    The safety of our fans due to poor policing at the Celtic v sevco game?

     

    Staying silent when our players were pelted by missiles and attacked at Ibrox when the sfa chose to ignore.

     

    Where has been the boards support on Resolution 12 or the constant career threatening tackles on our players without appropriate punishment?

     

    Did they ever ask why so many of our opponents have faced retrospective punishment due to a referee failing to apply the laws of the game?

     

    Will they follow up after statement on Cheating Beaton?

     

    The board have done many fine things on behalf of our club and rightfully many have praised them.

     

    But it is not a one way street and some criticism is valid.

     

    Also think you tend to be a forthright and thoughtful poster but the following from you is a little unbecoming.

     

     

    (You shouldn’t waste your time arguing with closed minds, who see anyone who has “done good” for themselves, usually due to parental sacrifices to ensure a good education.)

  14. BGFC

     

    I`ve been thinking along those lines since the possibility of his signing was first muted !!

     

    JJ

  15. The hands cant hit what the eyes cant see on

    @ HOT SMOKED on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:42 PM

     

     

    I’m happy that we have made 3 signings thus far; I think all will make a contribution as well. However, such is my desire to put the nails in Sevco’s coffin (which we have the financial means to do so), that I don’t want us to take our foot off the gas and rest on our laurels.

  16. Fan-a-tic

     

     

    ” The board have done many fine things on behalf of our club and rightfully many have praised them.

     

    But it is not a one way street and some criticism is valid.”

     

     

    A good point ( ie I agree !). As I said the other day, balance is the key. I am not balanced in my views re Celtic on here. My rationale is that the MSSM are so negative re our Club that being constantly positive is , ironically, my attempt to help balance things out.

     

     

    JJ

  17. The Hands @ 5:49

     

     

    Well I am certainly with you there !( Particularly the nails in the Sevco coffin.).

     

    On that happy note of agreement ,

     

    Cheerio for now,

     

     

    JJ

  18. GreeninbingleyinOslo on

    Good stuff. Welcome to Celtic, Vakoun Issouf, Timothy, Ollie.

     

     

    It’s a strange feeling, being delighted while knowing next to nowt about two of our three new signings, but the important thing for me is that Brendan wanted these guys and he’s got them, in pretty short order.

     

     

    Castagne’s agent has apparently confirmed that Atalanta want 6 million euros for him.

     

     

    23 years old, Belgian international – go on Peter, shut your eyes and buy him.

  19. GreeninbingleyinOslo on

    Apparently Vakoun’s nickname is ‘the Crow’.

     

     

    Hopefully somebody’ll tell him he’s already got a road named after him in Glasgow to help him settle in.

  20. HOT SMOKED

     

    Cheers for response and your reasoning is sound.

     

    And there is the beauty of a blog.

     

    We all have differing opinions and reactions to posts.

     

    I consider myself a bit of a miserable B(the wife would definitely confirm such) but i don’t post often on board matters as i’m not privy to the facts.

     

    When i do it is with a knowledge the other posters have far more insight than me on this subject and often refute my drivel.

     

    As i often say it’s a blog and the differing opinions add to it’s appeal.

  21. Up like a bird on

    Grogory Ionnadis think #Celtic need a RB and a CB but then again, lawyers do not know much about football, do they?

  22. Fool Time Whistle on

    Tony Ralston looks a much better player after his loan period & injury recovery.

     

     

    He should be allowed to make the position his own.

     

     

    (As it happens, my ex pro son told me that he was once asked to play at full back instead his normal midfield/striker role. He loved the relative increased time he had to use the ball & not having to have 360 degree vision when he received the ball. Then that was the old days.)

     

     

    While we all get energised by transfers in, it’s the movement out that also matter.

     

    Regrettably, some are past their use by date, some need to get 1st team time & others just don’t fit.

     

    My list for these categories is likely to be the same as most Celtic fans.

     

     

    As for the “Buy players instead of loanees” that’s often a convoluted rabbit hole inside a conundrum.

     

     

    Two words – Marvin Commper.

     

    Two more words – Rafael Scheidt.

     

    Another two words – Juninho (sorry one word)

     

    More two words – well you get the point.

     

     

    Celtic don’t & cannot sign top players at the peak of their game – unless they are dyed in the wool Tims who want to be here.

     

    Celtic sign ‘up and comers’ or ‘might’ve beens’ or (unkindly) ‘has beens’.

     

     

    Traditionally, we scoured the Scottish leagues for talent but then many other clubs got the message & our range of targets reduced. Some because players could be sure of a 1st team lace at say Hibs, but not with us. Others because we were being asked for more money & got priced out of it. Etc

     

    We also tapped into a market for our club in Ireland.

     

    Then we went to Scandinavia until others cottoned on to the potential there.

     

    Then we went to Eastern Europe (sort of) until…

     

    Then we went back to Ireland.

     

    Then we took some guys from England with some baggage.

     

    Then we scoured even more obscure leagues …

     

    Then we scouted US College leagues..

     

     

    My challenge to you all is this..

     

    Name the last world class player who, while in his prime, signed for Celtic?

     

    There have been many great players but for me that last in that category to sign was Henrik.

     

    And we only got him because he had baggage & issues from his time at Feyenoord & Wim knew about the release clause amount.

     

     

    What all of that stuff means is that our scouting & due diligence research on players has got to be better than most other clubs & we have to accept that we cannot compete for many of the exotic names that put bums on seats.

     

     

    It’s obvious to me at least, that our scouting & due diligence could do with re-assessment & improvement.

     

    Exhibit A is Marvin Commper.

     

    There are other examples too, but he is the highest profile one at present.

     

    If he is not good enough for the 1st team, what possible value can he give by strolling through training sessions while others are getting paid less & fighting for a place in the team.

     

    I fail to even understand why he is currently in Dubai.

     

     

    I’m not close enough to know whether some players are Lawwell punts or genuinely Brendan signings, but if that scenario exists – then it is/has been a recipe for confusion & disunity: both of which are anathema to team moral.

     

     

    Is Lee Congerton still at the club? I heard some other club was trying to sign him.

     

     

    I agree with the comments already made about one aspect of our recruitment.

     

    Our dealings with some Tier One clubs has been god for us – Man City & PSG know that we will look after their loan players & we are prepared to buy if possible.

     

     

    We should though be treating our own youth team players with the same level of care & attention. I’m not so sure that we do. And don’t get me started on losing fine youth players who go on the be champions with other sides.

     

     

    It seems to me & others that the goodwill & trust amongst coaches & management that was evident in Brendan’s first season started to unravel last season. I don’t know why or exactly when but I wondered if it was when Mr Congerton joined us. The last 3 windows have been poorly managed & we are paying the price for that now. Easy signings such as Hayes & Mulumbu require very little effort by the club – on any level, so when you look at the other types of signings – we are not even punching our own weight.

     

     

    I want Mr Lawwell to earn his salary & bonus by addressing the apparent complacency & dysfunction that appears to exist with our recruitment & management of players.

     

     

    I hope that Brendan stays with us for a long time to come, but he needs to re-discover that magic touch too.

     

    Perhaps Gordon Strachan’s opinion that Celtic managers have a 3 year shelf life has more truth in it than we imagined, but I suspect the real issue is that familiarity combined with jobs for life staff elsewhere in the club only produces complacency which becomes the elephant in the room during board or even coaches meetings.

     

     

    Other clubs achieve continuity without complacency, so unless the current squad & coaches are tired of winning every trophy in Scotland for the last 2.5 years…

     

     

    I support the loan & try them out policy in principle but those signings shouldn’t be the backbone of our team. We ourselves loan players to clubs that are perceived to be a lower standard (no offence) just so that player & us maintain a mutual interest. Years ago our players went out to a Junior side for games & development, so this is nothing new.

     

     

    If Congerton’s brief is to sign players that will generate a profit for the club on a sell-on as a priority before they are players that Brendan actually wants – which I suspect might be the basis for the disconnect – then Lawwell knows what he has to do. Ideally you sign a player that ticks both boxes – but the rumour mill & some dysfunction suggests that too often only one of those boxes gets a tick.

     

     

    Over to you Mr Lawwell.

     

     

    HH

  23. The hands cant hit what the eyes cant see on

    @ WHAT IS THE STARS on 8TH JANUARY 2019 5:42 PM

     

     

    I know there is anti-Lawwell sentiment on here (some rational others less so); I could make an argument that the pro-Lawwell rhetoric falls into similar categories.

     

     

    “Do you not think it even the slightest bit irrational to be slagging off the CEO at this stage???”

     

     

    Re this point. I know it may sound counter-intuitive considering matters objectively, but I think, looking subjectively at our position and recent history, it would be a misnomer to consider our current success attributable to our CEO.

     

     

    After the fall of the USSR, Francis Fukuyama (economist/political scientist) produced a book based upon a previous essay of his titled, “The End of History and the Last Man”. To steal the main gist of the book from Wikipedia:

     

     

    “What we may be witnessing is not just the end of the Cold War, or the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: that is, the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalisation of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.”

     

     

    Evidently his assertion was wrong.

     

     

    The reason I mention the above is that we are seemingly falling into a similar trap. We have forgotten what preceded the arrival of BR (Mowbray, Deila and Lennon, a youth coach who turned into a great manager) and now suppose that our success achieved under BR (7 out of 7) will be ever thus. For me, our current success is on account of BR not attributable to a well laid plan by our executives; after all, BR’s arrival was borne out of disaster. I just worry that we are resting on our laurels and certain people within the organisation believe themselves to be of greater importance and value than they necessarily are; and may imperil the future success of the club by driving away our greatest asset- BR.

     

     

    That’s why I criticise Lawwell, as I cannot rationalise that his efforts have led to our current success.

  24. Beautiful almost Spring-like sunshine here in Dublin to-day and perfect for a bracing walk along the Clontarf seafront. Great to finish it off with the best carvery in town in the Yacht a fine hostelry indeed.

     

     

    The good news is Celtic are moving quickly in the transfer market with the addition of Weah, Burke and Bayo – or Billy Billy Bayo as the legendary Jim Reeves used sing about. These lads may be good footballers but can they drink a pint of stout?

     

     

    The next phase for Celtic to sort is defence particularly with both Boyata and Benkovic for the off unless Dermot Desmond can convince the Croatian and find the money to keep him at Paradise. Could Mikael move to central defence and let’s hope Scott Brown stays, he still can be a solid squad player.

     

     

    Some great programmes on Billy Connolly on BBC2 over the Christmas. of course nothing about Billy would be complete without a segment relating to Celtic. Billy maitains the singing at Celtic Park has dipped since his early experience folllowing the club particularly when the strains of The Dear Little Shamrock would echo all around the stadium. Nothing like it to-day says Billy.