One of the surprising elements when we compare Celtic and Newco’s accounts is that the former have a higher wage bill: Celtic, £60m; Newco, £64m, despite Celtic having a bonus liability for winning all three trophies. The variance is even more stark than it looks. Celtic’s wage figure includes 130 retail staff, Newco’s retail operation is outsourced, pay to staff in their shops is not included in that £54m.
One area I prefer the Newco accounts to Celtic’s is that they show fixed costs. This appears as ‘Other operating charges’ in their accounts, Celtic do not offer as clear a figure. The Newco figure is £28m, consistent with the previous season and up from £23m in the last full season before Covid. Celtic’s fixed costs will be much the same (we have comparable electricity, stewarding, rates, insurance and other non-football costs).
Those fixed costs left Newco with an additional £55m for football operations. Assuming Celtic’s fixed costs are the same, their money available for football operations for the year was £92m. Let’s park this for a moment, until we look at the current season.
Celtic’s profit was assisted by exceptional items. £13.5m came from Covid insurance and compensation for Ange Postecoglou’s departure. Neither is likely to happen again. Despite selling Jota, Juranovic and Giakoumakis, our profit (sale minus kick-back to previous club and minus current asset value) was only £14.4m.
If we develop another Kieran Tierney and sell him for £24m, all of that money goes to the bottom line, but buying players in creates a completely different financial model. The latter is more likely going forward than the former. I doubt we will repeat anything like the sales of Jota et al this season, or for a while.
A couple of points on insurance and player trading figures noted above. Notes to Celtic accounts indicate insurance and compensation for a manager “do not meet the definition of revenue under IFRS 15”. Player sales also do not meet this definition. So although these payments significantly benefited profit and the cash position, they are not included in our £120m turnover figure. We have fewer cup games this season and one less trophy prize money, but income should be in much the same space.
Newco’s income will be down this season, I estimate to £70m. Subtract £28m fixed costs and they are looking at £42m available for football operations, before player sales income (but who can they sell?). It is not just that our income is 45% higher than Newco’s, which is significant enough in itself, the money available for football operations, by my estimate, is 215% higher.
You could say, “For every fiver they spend, we’ll spend £10.70”, but in reality, we’ll spend £10.70 and they’ll spend much more than this, until the day they don’t.
You see what is at play in Glasgow right now? Newco are in a horrible position if they are serious about trying to move Celtic off the podium. The new chairman John Bennet made disparaging remarks in his statement about the regime he took over, “Having spent recent months getting closer to the daily operations of the club, it is clear to me that there is widespread scope for improvement.”
“Widespread scope for improvement” is a clear dig at outgoing execs, Stewart Robertson and Andrew Dickson; Douglas Park may also have flinched on reading that one. But Bennet still banged the drum for good times to come.
There are two other things I would like to talk to you about: the new Uefa Financial Sustainability regs (which Celtic played a big role in designing) and our own bank balance, we’ll pick up on both later.
I started writing about Rangers’ finances here eight years before they went out of business. The direction of travel was clear and an outcome similar to what happened, inevitable. The only thing I didn’t know was how soon, or by what method, the walls would crumble.
This story has a few (?) seasons left to run, but the path is clear.
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Unaccustomed as I am….
Happy Friday eve all!
Another mild one here.
I’d like to thank…
Ooft.
Robbed.
…my Loovul pal Aipple for spoiling a double header…
QUADROPHENIAN re: busted double
Glad we can still be friends.
Thanks Paul67, a great, concise bit of analysis.
Shame it won’t reach a more mainstream audience but at least there is someone giving us the truth
Lanzarote csc.
P67:
‘I doubt we will repeat anything like the sales of Jota et al this season, or for a while.’
———
So you don’t see Matt O’Reilly or Reo in a comparable cash bracket to Jota ? The kid’s a total baller, Paul.
Worth 25m of any first tier currency.
Feel kinda sad atm for Lenny – gave us some great result and bling as a player and manager and seemingly scraping around unable to get a decent club gig. Guess that squibbed 10 really tarnished his record.
C’mon over to Oz Lenny – plenty ALeague sides could do with yer expertise. HH
Kieron Maguire has said that the “club” told him that significant amounts of their £10m increase in their wage bill from last season was down to bonus payments.
The accounts also state that Uefa prize money was £18.5m.
If both are true then they’re better off taking their chances in the Europa League, and this will be reflected in next years accounts
McPhail Bhoy @ last article
Nothing new really apart from the club, welcome to Scotland. They don’t have to formalise a plan, not to delve into Sevconomics despite the alleged profit transparency. Nobody dared lift the lid on Rainjurz, and their demise lasted years without a whiff of scrutiny, and some were still dining on succulent lamb they let their club die.
Hey presto, here’s Sevco and Scottish society including SMSM must take some responsibility for how that happened, meantime are they really still paying three managers without settlement for GVB and Michael Beale. No mention of the Elite court case either, estimated at a mere £9.2M?
The gift that keeps on giving CSC
Interesting lead…
Sevco have been mismanaged since their inception.
The fact that their new Chairman has acknowledged that fact and they are spending large on football staff wages and making money from player sales means their is a viable football club there.
Their European Record shows just that.
They continue to underachieve domestically but their fans won’t stand for that as the sacking of the last two managers showed.
They know getting points in the UCL and winning the SPL are a whole different ballgame.
You have to say their ambition to strive for those goals are certainly admirable.
But it means they won’t have our profits or cash in the bank
Hail Hail
John Colquhon – far better player at Hearts, where he played in a more central position. We stuck him on the wing, where he wasn’t brilliant. Maybe nowadays, we’d develop him better. Always thought we signed him and big Rambo, at the same time, but just checked and John came in 1983, with Alan 1984. Could do with another Rambo. Big strong boy with a decent touch. Oh to be able to bring through our own strikers again.
P67:
“You could say, “For every fiver they spend, we’ll spend £10.70”, but in reality, we’ll spend £10.70 and they’ll spend much more than this, until the day they don’t.”
In reality, we’ll spend £5 also but likely also sell to reduce the net cost, whilst retaining the other £5.70 + sales income as cash in hand for a rainy day / some as yet unknown purpose.
“I doubt we will repeat anything like the sales of Jota et al this season, or for a while.”
I hope that is a sign that there is a belief that Reo, MOR and Co are all wanting to have a go at the extended CL format next year and are hanging around (assuming we win the league and qualify!). Either or those players I think could get Jota-esque money (MOR in particular imo) if the market conditions were right.
QB
QUADBHOY @ 12:30 PM,
“In reality, we’ll spend £5 also but likely also sell to reduce the net cost, whilst retaining the other £5.70 + sales income as cash in hand for a rainy day / some as yet unknown purpose.”
Agreed, the business case for having a bigger football budget than Sevco Rangers is not very strong.
Hail Hail
chairbhoy
“The original 5WA draft had that agreed, in return Sevco would take on Rangers punishments up to, and including title stripping.
It failed because, as you allude to in your comments, the supporters of the SPL Clubs got wind of this travesty and rebelled against their Clubs’ hierarchy.”
—————————————
You have represented my views accurately but you have shoved the word “travesty” in there to justify the fans reaction. It is only a travesty deal if it’s a pig in a poke
i.e. If it’s just a vague promise to look at the possibility to title strip, I would agree it is a travesty.
But, if it was a commitment to title strip, as a price for being kept in the SPL, under the jurisdiction of SPL management and rules, it was a better deal for all of us, than handing them down to Tier Two (as it may have been till Turnbull Hutton rebelled) or Tier 4 as it turned out to be. Even though it took them 4 years rather than 3 years to get to the top tier, they kept their titles and cups.
I still say my approach came closer to seeing justice delivered than the approach that fans made them choose.
Rangers Financial Results
(Loss) £000
1989 -£2,955
1990 £1,214
1991 £43
1992 -£362
1993 -£3,262
1994 -£2,202
1995 £455
1996 -£2,137
1997 -£20,513
1998 -£12,491
1999 -£24,393
2000 -£24,999
2001 -£16,879
2002 -£35,328
2003 -£29,606
2004 -£5,939
2005 -£2,326
2006 £92
2007 -£6,253
2008 £7,172
2009 -£12,651
2010 £4,209
2011 £2,411 Never audited
-£186,700
2012 -£80,000 Assumed loss on declaration of TAX
2013 -£14,000
2014 -£8,100
2015 -£7,500
2016 -£3,300
2017 -£6,700
2018 -£14,300
2019 -£11,300
2020 -£15,200
2021 -£23,791
2022 -£919
2023 -£4,144
-£109,254
Total -£375,954
“when we compare Celtic and Newco’s accounts ”
—————
Why would we compare our accounts (or anything else) with Newco?
And what does Rangers have to do with anything that is going on right now?
CHAIRBHOY on 16TH NOVEMBER 2023 12:33 PM
“Agreed, the business case for having a bigger football budget than Sevco Rangers is not very strong.”
I think the next set of accounts may see us exceed them as we have made more signings, have given better deals to retain our better players (and maximise the profit we make on them when the day comes) AND I think in January we need to look to sign some additional cover for the players away on Asian Cup duty.
Thems on the other hand lost a good few high earners and other than their goalie I’m not sure they’ve paid as much in wages for the current squad – time will tell!
QB
BELMONT BRIAN…
From previous Thread…
RE BEER FRENZY before Christmas ?
I am happy to suggest FRIDAY December 1st, OR FRIDAY December 8th for a Beer Frenzy, would either of those dates suit YOU and others ?
Also, would The SHIPBANK Pub suit YOU and others on either of those Dates ?
I am happy enough, and OPEN to go to most other Pubs on either Dates, just as long the Pub does NOT have STAIRS leading to Toilets etc ?
Maybe some of the usual Ship Wreck Crew can come on here asap and CONFIRM what Date and VENUE suits them ?
HH.
PHILCOOL@12:09
32° right now in Puerto de Mogan Gran Canaria
In the shade, mad dogs and English men on the beach
Adding old club and new club:
Celtic record lead is 6 in 1917 and 1919
Rangers record lead is 14 in 1964 and 1965
Titles
year Rangers Cummulative Celtic Cummulative Gap
1873 0
1874 0 0 0
1875 0 0 0
1876 0 0 0
1877 0 0 0
1878 0 0 0
1879 0 0 0
1880 0 0 0
1881 0 0 0
1882 0 0 0
1883 0 0 0
1884 0 0 0
1885 0 0 0
1886 0 0 0
1887 0 0 0
1888 0 0 0
1889 0 0 0
1890 0 0 0
1891 1 1 0 1
1892 1 0 1
1893 1 1 1 0
1894 1 1 2 -1
1895 1 2 -1
1896 1 1 3 -2
1897 1 3 -2
1898 1 1 4 -3
1899 1 2 4 -2
1900 1 3 4 -1
1901 1 4 4 0
1902 1 5 4 1
1903 5 4 1
1904 5 1 5 0
1905 5 1 6 -1
1906 5 1 7 -2
1907 5 1 8 -3
1908 5 1 9 -4
1909 5 1 10 -5
1910 5 10 -5
1911 1 6 10 -4
1912 1 7 10 -3
1913 1 8 10 -2
1914 8 1 11 -3
1915 8 1 12 -4
1916 8 1 13 -5
1917 8 1 14 -6
1918 1 9 14 -5
1919 9 1 15 -6
1920 1 10 15 -5
1921 1 11 15 -4
1922 11 1 16 -5
1923 1 12 16 -4
1924 1 13 16 -3
1925 1 14 16 -2
1926 14 1 17 -3
1927 1 15 17 -2
1928 1 16 17 -1
1929 1 17 17 0
1930 1 18 17 1
1931 1 19 17 2
1932 19 17 2
1933 1 20 17 3
1934 1 21 17 4
1935 1 22 17 5
1936 22 1 18 4
1937 1 23 18 5
1938 23 1 19 4
1939 1 24 19 5
1940 24 19 5
1941 24 19 5
1942 24 19 5
1943 24 19 5
1944 24 19 5
1945 24 19 5
1946 24 19 5
1947 1 25 19 6
1948 25 19 6
1949 1 26 19 7
1950 1 27 19 8
1951 27 19 8
1952 27 19 8
1953 1 28 19 9
1954 28 1 20 8
1955 28 20 8
1956 1 29 20 9
1957 1 30 20 10
1958 30 20 10
1959 1 31 20 11
1960 31 20 11
1961 1 32 20 12
1962 32 20 12
1963 1 33 20 13
1964 1 34 20 14
1965 34 20 14
1966 34 1 21 13
1967 34 1 22 12
1968 34 1 23 11
1969 34 1 24 10
1970 34 1 25 9
1971 34 1 26 8
1972 34 1 27 7
1973 34 1 28 6
1974 34 1 29 5
1975 1 35 29 6
1976 1 36 29 7
1977 36 1 30 6
1978 1 37 30 7
1979 37 1 31 6
1980 37 31 6
1981 37 1 32 5
1982 37 1 33 4
1983 37 33 4
1984 37 33 4
1985 37 33 4
1986 37 1 34 3
1987 1 38 34 4
1988 38 1 35 3
1989 1 39 35 4
1990 1 40 35 5
1991 1 41 35 6
1992 1 42 35 7
1993 1 43 35 8
1994 1 44 35 9
1995 1 45 35 10
1996 1 46 35 11
1997 1 47 35 12
1998 47 1 36 11
1999 1 48 36 12
2000 1 49 36 13
2001 49 1 37 12
2002 49 1 38 11
2003 1 50 38 12
2004 50 1 39 11
2005 1 51 39 12
2006 51 1 40 11
2007 51 1 41 10
2008 51 1 42 9
2009 1 52 42 10
2010 1 53 42 11
2011 1 54 42 12
2012 54 1 43 11
2013 54 1 44 10
2014 54 1 45 9
2015 54 1 46 8
2016 54 1 47 7
2017 54 1 48 6
2018 54 1 49 5
2019 54 1 50 4
2020 54 1 51 3
2021 1 55 51 4
2022 55 1 52 3
2023 55 1 53 2
Chairbhoy
“They continue to underachieve domestically but their fans won’t stand for that as the sacking of the last two managers showed.
They know getting points in the UCL and winning the SPL are a whole different ballgame.
You have to say their ambition to strive for those goals are certainly admirable.”
———————————-
Where is the underachievement? They are the second rated club in the SPFL and they consistently finish second. Does that mean Celtic have over-achieved domestically? What will sacking their managers bring? That’s the default;t strategy of every Diddy club all over the world. No long term strategy, just short term scapegoating and sacrificing of coaches to appease the terracing Computer Football Coaching Crowd.
They don’t have a great record of collecting points in the UCL. I assume you meant to refer to their ability to win Europa ties in 2 years , 2008 and 2022.
The “ambition to strive” is not what I am seeing and, more importantly, it is not what the Zombie fans are experiencing. They are either seeing their club’s future endangered by reckless spending for no return, if they are clear eyed (and only a few are).
Or
They (the vast majority) are being fooled by bombastic, untruthful statements of how healthy their position is and how a league win and a Celtic collapse are just around the corner and an inevitable outcome of their “ambitious” approach.
And a fair few Celtic supporters fail to resolve the cognitive dissonance in seeing the evidence of a club spending in the manner they advise Celtic to do (and call that ambition) and failing to achieve the results that they state are the inevitable outcome of this approach. The Ibrox fanbase are not happy with their club- they are not happy with their level of title and cup acquisition but they still fall for that line that they are being “ambitious”. They do not feel that achieving a Europa final experience (I cannot call it a success) was worth all the domestic failure. They even sacked the manager that go them there in favour of a coaching genius and another foreign coach. I predict their next guy will be a Foreign coaching genius and, if he fails, they’ll go extra-terrestrial- to show how ambitious they are.
I’m off oot- will catch replies later.
SFTBS @ 12:34 PM,
Well you called the LNS Commision findings a fix up, when in actuality it was an iniquitous stitch up.
Yet it is more than semantics.
What the 5WA and LNS Commision achieved was immoral and unlawful.
Using semantics to make it seem okay is not for me.
You may have thought the aims and objectives of the original deal on the table was fine.
The agreement did indeed have title-stripping in it but it did not come close to justice.
Of course you were maybe unaware of the contents of the original 5WA and would be very loathed to make public an agreement of such a view at that time (you tell me!?)
However your point is very valid, many Celtic supporters would have been fine with the said agreement.
The Aberdeen fans et al were livid though
That’s what scuppered the deal.
Yet the reality is, travesty doesn’t get close to describing the despicable behaviour of this unscrupulous bunch who implemented the secret five way agreement.
I was just being polite;)
Hail Hail
Re titles above.
The paste into CQH lost the columnar formatting. Final column is which club is in the lead.
Paul 67,
Interesting article, however I must disagree with your summary.
The path is anything but clear.
For thems, who knows.
But more importantly how will it affect us.
Will we need to dust down the top covers again, will our aspiration react accordingly ?
Can we kiss goodbye to any stadium upgrade apart from what will be forced on us.
Years ago, I so wanted them to go bust, kaput, finished like a dodo. I did not think it through and hatred got the better of me.
Now I tend to focus on us. I enjoy going to Parkhead in front of a full house. I love winning Glasgow derby’s and the undoubted buzz it brings.
I look forward to our European journey and dream.
I am delighted with our best fit top notch manager.
As a consequence of their path could we be contemplating downsizing.
I look forward to hearing our plan B.
On the contrary Paul the path is anything but clear for all of us.
HH.
QUADBHOY @ 12:51 PM,
Yes, we must have readjusted the football players wages to a more realistic level.
Hopefully as you say it will help with retention of our best players and ensure a good profit when they are eventually sold.*
We have the funds available and hopefully the will, to strengthen the squad during the Asia Cup.
Quality, power, experience is a must.
*It will mean changing the recruitment model, hopefully Matt O’Riley is the poster bhoy for it.
Hail Hail
Dundee FC one-club man Cammy Kerr has a testimonial at Dens Park tonight and we are the opposition. £15 a head, still tickets available I believe. Anybody any idea of who will be playing for us?
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 16TH NOVEMBER 2023 12:20 PM
McPhail Bhoy @ last article
Nothing new really apart from the club, welcome to Scotland. They don’t have to formalise a plan, not to delve into Sevconomics despite the alleged profit transparency. Nobody dared lift the lid on Rainjurz, and their demise lasted years without a whiff of scrutiny, and some were still dining on succulent lamb they let their club die.
Hey presto, here’s Sevco and Scottish society including SMSM must take some responsibility for how that happened, meantime are they really still paying three managers without settlement for GVB and Michael Beale. No mention of the Elite court case either, estimated at a mere £9.2M?
The gift that keeps on giving CSC
_______________________________________________________________
A modern day the ‘Club’s New Kit Deal’ (The Emperor’s New Clothes in case the analogy is a bit stretched!), will anyone in the BBC, STV or main newspapers ever call it out or will they all broadcast and write ‘I told you so’ articles after it all goes pear shaped and they will say they saw it coming?!
Gossip, I know, but a wee bird told me that Pep is looking at Mat O. as a replacement for de Bruyne. Good fit I reckon, hope not though
KINGLuBO
Good afternoon all from Sharkeys Bar. Luncheon with Mrs BRRB.
Comparing wage bills. Are sevco overpaying their players or are we underpaying our players. Given that we have £72m in the bank could we pay the best players we have more in order to keep them and could we pay higher wages so we can attract better players to improve our results in the champions league?
Champions league money is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for our club.
test
FIELDOFDRAMS on 16TH NOVEMBER 2023 1:19 PM
“Dundee FC one-club man Cammy Kerr has a testimonial at Dens Park tonight and we are the opposition. £15 a head, still tickets available I believe. Anybody any idea of who will be playing for us?”
I was thinking of taking my eldest to this.
Rumours that we might see Tillo in action!
Most likely the majority will be dev squad unless any players need minutes in their legs.
QB
SFtBs @ 12:58 PM,
If we just park the rhetoric from the problem with relative poverty narrative and actually learn lessons from 2020/1.
Since then domestically…
They have one a cup (maybe two before the end of the year), we have won three.
Europe
They have excelled in the Europa League, both clubs have bombed in the UCL.
So does our SPL championship current status make us so much better!? Insurmountably better?
If you believe for a moment that the Ibroxian contingent don’t believe they are underachieving in the SPL and UCL you have not been paying attention.
They will go on sacking managers that don’t improve them, they would rather die, than watch us succeed in those competitions
Hail Hail
Chairbhoy
Well you called the LNS Commision findings a fix up, when in actuality it was an iniquitous stitch up.
Yet it is more than semantics.
What the 5WA and LNS Commision achieved was immoral and unlawful.
Using semantics to make it seem okay is not for me.
It still looks like semantics to me. Fix-up v Stitch up?? You genuinely believe that either is more reprehensible than the other or that sticking an adjective in front is a move that trumps it? How could you mistake me calling it a fix-up as saying it was OK?? That’s a bizarre conclusion. All I ever claimed and still do is that it would have got us closer to justice being meted out to the old Rangers than was achieved by sending the new Zombies to Tier 4 (or possibly 2- once we let them out of our control)
You may have thought the aims and objectives of the original deal on the table was fine.
The agreement did indeed have title-stripping in it but it did not come close to justice.
In the absence of any alternative options, that were going to be realistically achieved, it is the closest to justice that they came. Certainly, in contrast to what happened in reality, there is no argument. Our desire as fans for instant punishment in banishing them from the SPL, actually freed them into the hands of sympathetic judges who got them a slap in the wrist deal of ” You’re playing in 4th tier fitba but, if you shut up you’ll be back in the big league in 3 years (I know it took 4- God Bless Tammy Bell!) with all your history and baubles intact”.
Do you not think that, looking back, most Celtic fans would say that was an ultra-light punishment compared to (potential) title stripping.
If you thought we could get Titel Stripping Plus some other unspecified punishment, fair play to you but where is the evidence, in the light of what actually happened, that any other form of Justice plus was going to prevail.
,b>Of course you were maybe unaware of the contents of the original 5WA and would be very loathed to make public an agreement of such a view at that time (you tell me!?)
All you need to do is ask. There were several forms of 5WA in circulation and I read all that I received. Given the secrecy of the deal and the misinformation prevalent on ye old Social Media, I cannot state definitively that I read all or I knew which one(s) were genuine. And neither can you or the Aberdeen fans. All I ask is that you and the Aberdeen fans answer the question- which punishment would you prefer to have been meted out:-
Starting their journey in 4th tier, devoid of any threat of title stripping?
or
Staying in the SPL and running the risk that titles and trophies would be stripped or set aside?
I know which one I would choose as coming closer to meeting the mark. It is the same one that Big Hands Charlie Green would have chosen too. You might think that undermines my argument- being on his side but it doesn’t. Charlie did not have Rangers Historical interests at his heart; he just wanted a quick buck and a Chateau in France as a reward. He would have sold their trophies to the highest bidder if he could and would have been in and out of Ibrox with a bigger profit in a shorter period of time. In our desire to punish Charlie Green- a spin and a crook- we have let Davie Murray off Scot-free and he was the one responsible for old Rangers crimes.
I’m heading for the train home soon to catch the International match.
Will catch replies then.
Westcraigs
I’m not that surprised our wage bills are lower than theirs, as it’s almost always been that way. When they spent 100,000 pounds to sign Colin Stein from Hibs in 1969, Celtic were nurturing the Quality Street gang. Jock Stein was able to motivate those players but the then Celtic Chairman Desmond White, ex Queen´s Parker, was not. Connelly, Hay, Macari and Dalglish should have been invested in, in the early Seventies, but with the likes of Burns, Nicholas, McCluskey and McStay coming through, the board thought the goose would continue to lay golden eggs.
Yes, I know there´s been a lot of water under the bridge since then but I have to say I still get the shivers contemplating Celtic´s financial performances year in year out. By this I mean we struggle for years or decades to be able to even buy a top player and when we do spend the big money we get it very, very wrong. Berkovic and Scheidt wrong. But the problem is that it is recent too, Barkas and Ajeti are among our biggest-ever buys.
Whomever it is whose job it is to sign the players we need, please think for a day or two about the sacrifices some people make…during their lifetimes… to support a football club like Celtic.
I don´t like the black bits in the new strip.
Hrvatski Jim
Great stats earlier.
One tenuous parallel could be drawn from your separate leagues and losses data.
We had our worst 40 year period from 1927-1966.
A team wearing blue out of Ibrox with the word ANGER in their name are 35 years through their worst 40 year period (1989-2028).
When we overtake their … ahem … cumulative league title count ….
… the wailing and grinding of teeth will be off the scale.
They fought so long, so hard, and so dirty to “preserve” their “history”.
Didn’t pay attention to their present and future.