This was a defensive and tactical failure. Efe Ambrose was slow to follow his man for the first goal (Fraser was the beaten easily, though redeemed himself later). Efe was also brushed off the ball at the second goal. Strength in the six yard box is imperative for a central defender.
Mikael Lustig was caught underneath his man for the cross which led to the second goal, a feature of our defending all night. All he could do was attempt to block the header back across goal, instead of challenge for the ball. He was also in the wrong starting position, and therefore, unable to stop the cross which led to the fourth goal.
With Lustig and Ambrose already culpable at the second goal, Virgil van Dijk was caught napping. He may have expected better from his team-mates, but he should have remained alert with the ball inside the penalty area. The space afforded to Radovic, Virgil’s man, should never have existed.
I’ve no idea why Emilio, our only left back, was omitted from the starting line-up. He offered balance when he came on, until his late horror show when he was turned inside out, then inside out again, at the third goal. It was like watching a clip from the 50s, when full backs didn’t know to get tight and close-off one option for the attacker.
Charlie Mulgrew had a nightmare beyond the level of the others, which is saying something. Two penalty kicks, failing to attack the ball with his man, who headed the third goal, failing to track the run for the fourth, and the debacle which led to possession being lost when Efe was red carded, was a calamitous return.
I’ve heard transfer rumours about everyone who played in defence last night apart from Lustig and Izaguirre. It looked like the defenders had been listening to them too, and had minds on other things.
The squad’s weaknesses were exposed by Legia.
It’s probably too late to lament the absence of Wanyama, but with Brown again out through injury, we’re short of bite in central midfield, exactly what we needed when the defence was comatose. Stefan Johansen and Charlie Mulgrew had the senior combative roles, it just didn’t work. We need to fix this gap as soon as possible.
Ronny got things wrong.
I agree with the manager’s assessment in his post-match BBC interview, the back four didn’t defend as a unit, which is fatal at any level of football, and we didn’t press as a team. I’ll make no excuses for the defenders, but playing this specific 4-3-3 away from home in Europe was asking for trouble.
If we’re short of bite with Johansen and Mulgrew, we’re shorter still if the third man in the middle is the creative Kris Commons. Love him, though we do, he is neither a tackler nor a box-to-box player. The middle three in this formation need to be mobile, covering as much ground as four, sometimes five, opponents. Johansen, Mulgrew and Commons was wrong on all levels. As a result, the Legia midfield probably had their easiest game of the year.
Callum McGregor delivered a goal, as much as anyone could reasonably expect of him, but this was his first game against top-flight full-timers. He needs people to ease him into the role. Jo Inge Berget hasn’t trained with the club, has played only twice since January and there’s a reasonable chance he didn’t know the names of all his team-mates.
If you want to know why we didn’t press as a team as soon as Legia got in amongst us, the clues are everywhere. Of course we didn’t press as a team.
On top of this, we ran the same Pukki experiment as last year, with the same outcome. We’ve seen a lot more of this Celtic team than Ronny, who might now be on the same page as the rest of us.
“Anywhere but Warsaw” was title of the CQN article on the day of the draw as this one was entirely predictable, and that was before Legia won in Dublin. The new manager has yet to get his feet under the table. The squad are in a state of flux. We are short of experienced, reliable, players in several positions, and football in July is often a lottery. There was a chance Legia would capitulate but it was more likely that they would be fitter and better rehearsed.
Seven days is a long time in preseason terms, and as you don’t need me to tell you, we’ve been here before. Don’t think this is over.
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It doesn’t matter what formation you play if you can’t string 3 passes together and your ball retention is equivalent to a pub team you will get hammered at this level. This giving the ball away cheaply has been a feature for years and it may be time to rip it up and start again.
“I think last night’s result may have been on the cards. There has been no investment in the team.”
Neil Lennon, Radio 5 Live.
I wonder if Lennon has been contractually restricted in going much further? His statement is largely a matter of fact, of course.
I would love Neil to lift the lid on the past few months. He left a job he loved with nothing lined up. The conclusion we reach is that he could see the writing on the wall and told PL so. PL said “so f***”…
Auldheid
As you said we need concrete proposals for alternatives.
What I want to see…is a shift in thinking
Fans on the board would be a good start.
But to go further, idealistic as it is…..the fans should own and run the club, they could not do any worse.
Businessmen only think of money, im thinking of football, and the greatness of the Celtic I love…there is a big difference.
Hope this makes sense:)
HH
G67
I agree 100%
Can’t see it happening tho.
HH
micktt
12:11 on 31 July, 2014,
As long you don’t wear the bowler hat….that’s fine by me…:)
Ye, all good and yourself and your gorgeous lady?
HH
We can talk all we want about last nights failures being caused by the lack of investment, years of over prudence, short sightedness etc.
That is indeed to blame for many things, however the present Celtic team should have beaten Legia comfortably last night.
Had the Celtic team been set up in the correct manner, in fact had they been set up in the way Ronny Deila said he would 4 weeks ago I think we would have won the game.
The fundamental question not asked Paul67, is why did Ronny back track on what he said 4 weeks ago
It went something like ‘in the beginning we play the neil lennon way, its the way the players are comfortable with. We dont want to try and force too much change on too quickly, there is plenty of time for us to do that’.
What changed?
Paul67 – You’ve suitably put the boot in so to speak, by the tone of your language over the last 10 years anyway.
However, I disagree with your shrugging of the shoulders language regarding the ‘Pukki experiment’
there is one reason we appointed a scottish / Celtic minded assistant manager – which is to nullify your point and subsequent excuse.
John Collins should have ensured Pukki did not start last night – otherwise what is the point in having him there?
Good Luck to Aberdeen tonight they have a tough game I hope they do better than we did. H.H.
Dexter
“We want a modest investment in quality”
We want better quality for sure but will a modest investment secure it?
My fear is the cost of that modest investment. It’s not going to be a name we recognise, a seasoned pro we are familiar with. So it will have to be an unknown to us couple of players playing at a better quality level than we have, at a club paying less than we pay.
If they are not seasoned pros we would be doing what we are doing already in taking a punt. If they are seasoned pros playing at a higher quality than we have then why are they not already playing somewhere that pays them well for that quality?
There may be diamonds out there for a modest investment but like diamonds they will be rare.
Dontbrattbakkinanger – congratulations.
traditionalist88
Spot on. It got so ridiculous at times my sphincter twitched with every pass expecting it to go to a Legia player. I’ve never seen a team drain of confidence so much in my puff.
For a bunch of guys who’ve played high pressure games for a few seasons now in some huge arenas we looked terrified.
No idea how you get too the heart of that stuff.
traditionalist88 @ 12.12
That is indeed the problem. Henderson is one of our few players who can retain the ball.
sipsini
12:15 on 31 July, 2014
micktt
12:11 on 31 July, 2014,
As long you don’t wear the bowler hat….that’s fine by me…:)
Ye, all good and yourself and your gorgeous lady?
HH
—————————————————————–
Oh no bowler hat, all well here and the blonde one is marvelous, back to work for her in a fortnight. ..TF…lol
HH
niallo 12:10 – I saw it as 4231 with the MF 3 and Pukki as 4 forwards. Berger was – and remains – an unknown quantity. The other MF failings have been highlighted already inc respective inability of CM and KC to undertake tasks required of that formation with that personnel
It was reminiscent of Ajax away last season where the barely fit KC and GS played along with NL pets Stokes and Forrest and the midfield was overrun. timmy_7 noted will bear me out that I was going nuts at MF being overrun from 20′ mark last night
traditionalist88 12:12 – spot on
rogue leader @ 11:38 on 31 July, 2014
This is indeed a worry.
Paul67
Glad the hysteria has calmed a little, always the same during and immediately after a bad performance.
watched the game with 5 of my male siblings and their partners and a few nephews. The overall view at 3-1 was we were lucky to get away from there with a fair chance of turning them over.
At 4-1, probably not, was the general consensus.
However, I agree with you, 7 days is a long time in fitba and this tie is most definitely not over.
Lots of work, including talking and ‘clear the air sessions’ for all concerned; but feel if we set up properly we can score 3, or 4 if necessary, against the Poles.
It’s a long shot, but we are Celtic and always in it until the last kick of the ball. I’m willing to wager about 99% of posters will be right up for a positive result by kick-off next week! As for those that ain’t – well, who really gives a toss about thems?
Btw- well done Mr Z – your team played hard but fair and deserved your victory. Only half time mate :-)
HH
Auld heid I Agree we must reduce costs to ensure that the 11 players on the park are the right balance
We must ship out the dead wood to reduce the wage bill
How long has mcgeogh been about for now , is he the new Raymond mcstay?
We need a 1st team squad of about 15 players that’s all we can afford
But as exiled tim says, some of those players should be older experienced pros. Forget the sell on value . You make your money by not having to sign every year players who might become 1st eleven players, but in most cases sit on the bench earning half a million a year
A few if those 15 come from the youth squad, if we have injuries then more youths or loans The youths are the projects. Not Balde , bangura , derk, pukki etc
But the most important part is to pay those few older players the going rate. At this present time PL won’t sanction this
Not for the faint hearted http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/31/mexico-player-kicks-northern-ireland-opponent-under-19-game?CMP=twt_gu
Let’s talk about Peter Lawwell and his salary plus bonus. In the last reported set of accounts that was roughly £500k salary plus more or less the same in bonuses and pension. £1M total.
So lets’ say we go for a more SPL level appointment. The base salary will still be in the £2-300k range bonus etc maybe the same. For the sake of argument let’s say the overall package is £500k.
Is that £500k going to make the difference between CL and not CL. No. Is the new cheaper CEO going to do things differently? No, he won’t be allowed to.
What if he’s worse at the job than PL, and doesn’t manage to generate as much revenue, then where are we?
JFH
This place could go into further turmoil if Aberdeen get hammered and Sociedad’s new signing Alf Finbogasson scores a hat trick.
traditionalsut88
What you heard from seasoned Celtic supporters did not surprise me. I have been hearing and observing similar for a long time. CQN poster mickbhoy1888 was very honest in stating the same view and I am sure that our club are aware that many of our missing thousands are not missing because of financial factors, or downsizing, or protest against the Boards but they are bored by the inevitablity of us winning the league and imagine that the return of a team calling itself Rangers will either make it more competitive or it will be a laugh to beat them regularly on the pitch.
It might help the transition, if the CEO would stop referring to Celtic as a CL team, when quite obviously, we are not of that standard.
Its insulting to be told that the CL is the priority, while at the same time the club is being downsized.
HH
SydneyTim. We should take a hit on some of the fringe players sell them if we can get any offers loan them out if we cant.I have said for a while there are to many well paid no hopers at celtic and they drain our resources. H.H.
We have been here before with our last four managers. Why ?
Answer: Disenchanment by our successful football managers with our current custodians. As long as we win the SPL everything else is a monetary bonus. That is how the board think.
Youth development is most successful when their is stability and longevity. Ferguson, Wenger, Gradi, Carr
Unfortunately our custodians dont value that as it exposes them
HH
Gary67. Hangerland. Exactly the type of experience pro you need
Offer them good packages to help our our promising youths
Sadly under Lawell’s policy that wont happen at present
Good morning Celt,
Good to be a Tim, innit :o)
The arrogance is thoroughly enjoyable I’m loving it.
We should be hammering clubs from bigger better leagues every time, loving it.
I think we watched what our manager is chasing, Leiga’s standard of play, I thought we watched good football. If he gets us as good as Liege by mid season I’ll be satisfied.
Completely new system is hard to implement.
I think we are attempting to play more one touch football and a lot of players are having problems releasing it when they think they have time to take a touch.
I missed Commons very early chance which I notice has been written out the history books because it was not part of the highlights during or after the game.
We could have been two up might have been a different game, happens eh.
Off out
On the game and based on RD comments it seems like the team failed to follow through on instructions and lost their shape and discipline. For me that is an example of the lack of character and leadership that has been a prevailing theme for the team when the going gets tough over these past few years. When a team loses it shape and discipline its difficult to influence a turnaround from the sideline. Not enough strong characters for me.
On the wider issues the board need to stop taking us for mugs. We have been downsizing in cycles since 2003. The “Moneyball” approach has had successes but it is hard to keep doing it when everyone else is too. Successive managers have been unable to bring through talent from the development squad either because they were afraid to or they took the view that the talent is not good enough. The board should be more open and transparent about how they envisage the next 5 years. Are we a Europa League side or a CL side every few years. Even if we rescue this tie we look out of our depth at CL level. How do we address that? Can we address that?
There needs to be more of a partnership between club and fans. I’ll travel on the journey irrespective but it would be good know what the intended direction of travel is.
It’s been over 12 hours now – can’t believe we haven’t had one of those long lists of players’ names with PUNT/KEEP alongside them.
SFTB
….. while happily being cheated out of millions
you forgot that last sentence there .:-)
squire danaher
12:21 on 31 July, 2014
niallo 12:10 – I saw it as 4231 with the MF 3 and Pukki as 4 forwards. Berger was – and remains – an unknown quantity. The other MF failings have been highlighted already inc respective inability of CM and KC to undertake tasks required of that formation with that personnel
It was reminiscent of Ajax away last season where the barely fit KC and GS played along with NL pets Stokes and Forrest and the midfield was overrun. timmy_7 noted will bear me out that I was going nuts at MF being overrun from 20′ mark last
Well then as you say it’s the players that are the problem (I.e. KC and CM) not the formation. I only bring this up because most teams play 4231 nowadays
Green Man
The constraints that currently apply will not change by having a fan on the Board.
That fan under the current constraints would become a fanny very quickly. A soup taker feeding off the crumbs of his richer Board members. It’s a poison chalice.
A Board full of fans? What skills and experience would you want them to have that differ from those of the current Board responsible for running a good size business?
If we want Celtic to grow in the business of football then we need business experience.
However if we want a community club ( and maybe that is indeed what we may have to settle for) then there examples of that model to examine.
I had a look at Malmo FC for other reasons the other day and they seem to operate on a membership basis. Worth having a look.
Malmo do no better than we do in the CL qualification stakes, in fact worse so being a community club will not of itself aid CL aspirations.
Perhaps the underlying problem is that there is no consensus on what we want with a vision and plan to get there.
Perhaps we are now at a crossroads with time marching on for DD to stop and look down which road Celtic should be heading.
DBBIA,
Congratulations for getting over the line. I hope you have a long, happy and healthy retirement, to indulge in all the things that you put on the back burner.
However, it is only the day job that you are chucking.
Keep posting.
Now, last night’s extravaganza.
I literally did not recognise that Celtic team.
Not only did they not physically look like Celtic, or play the way we want them to play, perhaps due to the camera work, I found it extremely difficult to identify the players.
There were faults all round, re the performance.
However, the basic skills of passing, ball control and concentration, which were posted missing……and that lies with the players.
Team selection was, in retrospect, flawed, but it was the attitude of the team that was the biggest factor.
Did they become complacent after scoring early?
Once again, we missed the leadership and drive of Scott Brown.
We had no leader on the park.
It actually looked as if the team were in the huff and didn’t give a damn.
Very disappointed and I suspect, a difficult transition year ahead.
Right now I’d boot RD and PL oot the door. JC is a coaching failure and should never be there in the first place.
Question is who would replace them?
We are a EL team that has over performed. Unfotunately only the executive side is rewarded for this. Not the football staff or the fans or the catering staff. Tragically for us we have too many fans willing to readily too accept that.
HH
Glasgow is full of cyclepaths.
big wavy, 79caps
exactly and it was after one of the goals I think Ambrose attempted a ball out to the wing and fired it straight out of play.
This is way way beyond tear your hair out stuff now. WTF is going on at Parkhead?
We’re not even attempting to sign young, hungry players in our own league now. In every other league the best players graduate to the top clubs and this is largely successful becuase they know the league/opponents/team mates already and don’t have the relocation issues of moving to a new environment to deal with. They fit in straight away.
A lot has been said about Ryan Gauld but we should have picked up Johnny Russell before Derby came in and we should have been looking at Stuart Armstrong to come in asap. The young left back at Thistle signed for Wigan and looked like a very good prospect and would have provided strong competition to Izaguirre at a reasonable fee.
HH
Harold Flatpak
Hoi. I just said that! :)
Seriously we really must set out a vision with reasons for it and a plan to get there.
A point that has been made to the SLO from CQN to feed Celtic’s research into providing what the support want.
joe filippis haircut. Think we all have been saying that. But trying to play projects in a hope they might magically change
The 3 duds ( pukki derk Balde ) should have been out for loan
Kayal Efe stokes should have joined them along with the Icelandic project striker
Another thing the guy who does our scouting for forwards should really try his hand at something else , like needlework
Dontbrattbakkinanger enjoy your retirement (you might be getting out at the right time).
Hard to watch game last night, some of the defending wouldn’t be acceptable at school level. Having expected the usual blame everyone and everything backlash I held off from twitter and here till now. Just some thoughts to add into the pot;
– have any of you bought and sold players for a professional club (how many factors involved?)?
– have any of you played at the top level and signed for a big club (international career, personnal glory, quality of league and European football)
– how many of you remember Brown, Cassidy and McDonald and still critisise Lawwell?
I’m disappointed but I’ll get over it (as I pointed out to the office gloater this morning at least my club never liquidated and I never had to adopt a new one!). I’ll go next week in hope and Celtic have surprised us many times in the past.
HH
up_over_goal
12:30 on 31 July, 2014
There would only be one long list. The other would be a lot shorter ;-)