I didn’t realise until watching TV last night it was Keith Lasley that Anthony Stokes ‘did’ on Saturday, the player who put Adam Matthews out of the game for a couple of months. It’s a physical game, and I’m not going to concede violent behaviour is acceptable, but it would be super-human to not be affected by earlier violence. We need to rise above this.
On a similar theme…. Another incident I missed at the game was James McFadden wresting Fraser Forster, who was holding the ball, early in the second half. Minutes later Fraser threw himself to deny McFadden what looked like a certain goal.
Players need an edge to be able to summon their very best performances, and a wee nyaff climbing all over you is as likely to give you an edge as anything. McFadden has a few years left in him. He’s at a well-run club who will give him the platform to excel, if he can find the focus to deliver.
I see some re-writing of history today and over the weekend on where responsibility for Newco Rangers acute financial plight lies. Among throwing blame on convenient scapegoats, one-time-hero-though-transparent-chancer Charles Green, and financial director, Brian Stockbridge, few seem prepared to offer up the prized oaf.
They banked £22m from a share issue and cash from circa 30,000 ticket sales, enough to see them through to top flight football, as long as they didn’t blow it on football bling. So who was responsible for doing exactly that (if you can stretch the definition of bling to Jon Daly and even lesser appealing gems)?
Sure, Stockbridge and Mather signed off, and they certainly knew the financial situation the club was in, but we know enough of the story to explain why it happened.
Despite having a budget close to 100 times their opponents Newco suffered considerable humiliation at the hands of fourth-tier clubs last season. Without reinforcements their chances of progress from the third tier was far from guaranteed – if they continued to allow Ally McCoist to run football operations.
McCoist was unsackable. He played the fans perfectly, earning a ridiculous contract and shares a 1p each for his ability to put bums on seats. Mather had to throw enough talent into the squad to ensure promotion with McCoist in charge, then rely on Charles Green to pull together another share issue.
The question you have to ask is, once McCoist had his reinforcements, who torpedoed the Charles Green supply ship?
No one is going to tell you Charles Green is a man you would want associated with your club, but before mob-rule ensured his attempts to raise investment cash were quashed, should someone not have asked the questions, why did the board find it necessary to bring such a pariah back and what happens if we throw him and his investment plans out?
We’re about to find out.
If suggestions that Newco will come close to expiring cash in hand before season ticket income arrives are accurate I expect they will get there, even if players don’t agree to a wage cut. Companies can control when to pay creditors, even HMRC, who despite what is likely to be an acute interest in Newco, would take months to complete a debt recovery action.
Don’t get too drawn in the minutia of this, whether an insolvency event happens or not does not change the fundamentals, which we touched on last week. Newco had a gamblers chance of turning into something resembling Oldco.
Spooking the SPL into giving them a ticket into top flight football would have seen them debt free and competing for last season’s SPL. Three years of paying our bills while losing the league would have been pointless. I genuinely think only one of Glasgow’s big teams was ever going to survive the SPL decision on Newco.
Had they liquidated Oldco, then flooded Newco with talent and won the league, Celtic would not have recovered, a reality that should be remembered when journalists talk about Scottish football harming itself in 2012. It was them or us.
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tbj praying for Oscar Knox
Sorry. Got the moniker wrong there.
Karma on Saturday for another adversory Murray Davidson of St Johnstone………no clapping now…..:)
eddieinkirkmichael
13:03 on
20 January, 2014
Paul67
12:45 on
My understanding is that in season 2011/12 the rules of the SPL were that it would be up to the SPL board on which basis the SPL share of a club was transferred. I thought that meant it was well within the rules that the Rangers Charle Green created could be waved straight into the SPL. The decision would have been with the six man board containing Doncaster and Topping – two guaranteed yes votes for Green’s Rangers. Brown of St Johnstone, with Topping also having a vote. Stephen Thompson was also on the board and according to reports he got the process altered so all member clubs would decide. I know this isn’t the accepted veiw on here but actually the rules were changed in a way that prevented a Rangers currently being in the top flight.
=========================================
I’m not so sure the rules were changed eddie.
I think Doncaster tried an interpretation of the rules on for size and got a knock back because by that time clubs were getting the message from their supporters.
Monnbeams Wet Dreams wrote a terrific letter to Doncaster in March 2012
which can be read at
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8658278/1/
that and the comments thereafter give a good idea of what went on.
Re : Lasley – to paraphrase Paul67’s article – it’s him or us. If Anto had put the that tackle in at the start of the game we’d have played 89 mins. with 10 men. Also – I wonder if it had been someone other than Anto – would a red have been given? I’m not sure it would have been if, say, Joe had made the same tackle.
setting free the bears supports Res. 12 & Oscar Knox
15:10 on
Good and informative post mate, while I agree on most of your points I have to dissagree on the Gretna issue as I believe they were indeed offered a place in the lowest tier of SFL. It was only because they couldn’t guarantee finances that they weren’t able to take up the offer of this invitation to join SFL in the old 3rd division.
On the history issue there was precedent in England for a FA to recognise a new entity as having taken over the history of a liquidated club.
Coventry City FC Ltd were liquidated and the new company that runs Coventry – Atrium, were given the FA ‘golden share’ with a 10-point penalty and no suggestion of demotion nor were there any issues with transfer of licence.
As I said earlier rules were changed that resulted in Sevco not being admitted to the SPL.
I firmly believe that mistakes were made by Regan and Doncaster but these two individuals made them honestly (unlike others in positions of power in our game) and for what they believed was the good of the game in Scotland.
That they didn’t put their hands up and tell the footballing public what was going on was their biggest mistake. The five way agreement should have been published. The licensing issue, as set out by UEFA, was handled badly but again, I honestly believe Regan actually operated within the guidelines as set out by UEFA.
If they game is as currupt as some would have us believe, Sevco would be playing in the top division of the SPFL now not in the lower leagues.
I’m all for the truth getting a good airing on football blogs but we must also accept some of what is taken for granted is just blatantly untrue and a misrepresentation of the facts as we know them.
tin hat on CSC
Rumour in Dingwall:
Ross County to apply for safe standing in the old home Jail End which used to hold 1200, currently seats 850 – suggested revamp would hold 950 standing.
Would be for next season………
Stokes may have given Pukki or Balde their best chance of replacing him in the team. I would think Pukki, as he seems very Stokes like but a lot less surly.
The french candidate going up against Blatter for FIFA presedency proposes ‘orange’ cards… A masonic plot at the highest level? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25811977
Dr
I sit quite near the front in 107 . When the mothers came out to warm up in front of me I gave him major dogs abuse.
I also reminded John Sutton that his brother would have smashed lasley.
The wee scrote didn’t hang about that side much after that
Auldheid
16:03 on
I’ll have a read of that Auldheid.
I still am of the opinion that Steven Thomson getting the transfer of SPL share from a board vote to all teams in the SPL is a change in the rules. However as always I’m prepared to look at the evidense and be proved wrong :)
Lasley will play in the next Mothers game.
Anto will miss (at least) Celtic’s next game.
Who’s the numpty?
I think Stokes should show Lasley his payslip and ask him who is the fa**y.
Thoughts….
1 Judith Ralston. I’ve met her a few times and a sweeter lady you couldn’t hope to meet.
2. Deidco. Unless Cockroach FC really does die, completely and forever then I’ll always be of the view that any ‘punishment’ / consequence they face will have been too lenient. Sadly there’s a large customer base with their moral compass stuck in the 1690s so the foundation fro a business plan still exists despite the ineptitude of the current er….. Custodians (spivs).
3. Stokes in Lasley. Initially thought it a def yellow and thought the ref was going to give himself a hernia in his haste to get a red card out his pocket!
Having seen a re- run I’d mibbee say half way between a yellow and a red so no doubt who’d not get the benefit of the doubt.
I want my celtic to be a team that goes onto pitch to play good fair football. But one that can handle themselves when needs be. Barry Robson versus Deidco rather leaps to mind!!!
HH jamesgang
Doctor Whatfor
Jackie planted one on Hately’s chin and didn’t get a red card. Probably his finest moment in a Celtic shirt. Wee Jackie was gone before Robson and hartley joined us but he is a great shout of a player using craft and guile to deal with opponents.
I have never liked us to have dirty players but they must stand up and be counted. Wee Jackie did that in the Hoops.
LB
SFTB @ 15:10,
Interesting piece, however a bit overly long for me to comment on all the salient points…
Still, Auldheid’s response to you @ 13:54 is a good synopsis – If Rangers had survived in the SPL we could have been left pining for a return to the glories of the Mowbray Years.
Yet you do have a very good point, we don’t really know exactly what was initially proposed when Craig Whyte made it clear to the SFA and SPL that Rangers was going – bust circa Nov 2011.
Also we don’t know what Charles Green finally agreed too in August 2012, Fholk have mentioned Plan A – Plan B, the final so called 5 way agreement must have been Plan J at least.
You mention Third Lanark, Airdrie United and Gretna – Yet as Auldheid alludes too the rules had been constructed within the SFA handbook to ensure they were robust enough to ensure (as with Gretna) the correct protocols could be adhered too but allowing Campbell Ogilvie and Company disposition to ensure they could rescue Rangers if all else failed – which it pretty much did.
So your point – could the Charles Green Consortium have applied for the new Club owned by Sevco to get SFA membership and an SPL share?
Well not only could he, he stated he did.
When the CVA was rejected Charles Green states that he applied as Sevco to the SFA and SPL – this was in the middle of June 2012 (remember the Club 12 stuff).
At that time Rangers FC PLC (il) were members of the SFA and held the SPL share – Charles Green had NO mechanism to get these they were still to an extent in the gift of Oldco still had their SPL shareholding in August.
So the Charles Green Consortium MUST have applied for a NEW membership as a NEW Club.
Hail Hail
eddieinkirkmichael
“I have to dissagree on the Gretna issue as I believe they were indeed offered a place in the lowest tier of SFL. It was only because they couldn’t guarantee finances that they weren’t able to take up the offer of this invitation to join SFL in the old 3rd division.”
No need for a tin hat from me, eddie.
I have tried to research the Gretna situation but I cannot find any details of any offer of continuity in the senior leagues. What I came across was a desire by the founders of Gretna 2008 to start afresh in order to “distinguish itself from the previous toxic brand”. In which case, including Gretna in your name seems the wrong way to go about it. Do you have any details of what offer was made to them and who made it? How much more would it cost for them to run a 3rd division outfit a la East Stirling or Queens Park as opposed to an East of Scotland (now Lowland League) set up like Spartans or Gretna2008?
I will leave others to comment on the Coventry comparison. I have seen the English parallels raised a few times by Sevco fans and I have read rebuttals as to why they did not apply but i cannot recall the detail now. Others may wish to take this point up.
My view is the same as with regards to the Italian FA allowing Fiorentina to buy back their history. That may be legally the situation as far as Italians are concerned but I do not have to accept it. I see it as another example of a weak attitude towards corruption, somewhat typical of that country’s recent history and administration (no disrespect to Italians per se, merely their chosen governments and administrators).
I think Fiorentina’s continuity is as big a fraud as Rangers. Coventry may be likewise but, as I say, I will leave that to others.
evening Auldheid….from your post 13.54
b) it takes a detailed knowledge of the rules and how to get around them to come up with such an arrangement and I doubt Celtic had the in depth knowledge to come up with it. Campbell Ogilvie on the other hand….
should Celtic not have someone that does have the in depth knowledge of the rules ….as it seems inevitable that the SFA will be adjusting the rules in the future…as and when the dark ones require help…….
………………………..
put yourself up for it 120K a year plus extras!…………..hoopy days braw
rememberwhoputyeforwardforhtejob cfc…..
awfy braw
jamesgang
16:27 on
20 January, 2014
Re point 2. This is something I’ve brought up before. It wouldn’t matter if they died completely and went away for a season or two. At some point Ibrox may have new occupiers and at some point that team may rise to the top league and should Glasgow City rise to being our challengers they will automatically attract Celtic haters and as soon as they do the claims of “they never really died” will start again.
So much of their death(or lack of) is to do with the fans and not the club/company that in some peoples eyes they’ll never die as long as they attract the same fan base. Even if they’ve done nothing to appeal to them (unlike CG, who did everything he could).
Hearing that Snodgrass is very keen to sign for Celtic,and is willing to take a pay cut to make it happen.
!!Bada Bing!!
15:16 on
20 January, 2014
Zoopla to stop West Brom sponsorship at end of the season ,due to Anelka’s gesture.
Interesting eh,the power of the corporate buck being shown,
makes me wonder bout Ticketus/Octupus and how their money impacted? :-))))
Peter Grant on Mark Walters
Awesome upper cut took him clean out
Scottish cup final 1989
Brilliant
To anyone in Belfast
Wee Oscars parents are doing a drive for blood doners in City Hall tomorrow between 8 and 5 – if your about try and get along to support them
HH
eddieinkirkmichael 16:11
I firmly believe that mistakes were made by Regan and Doncaster but these two individuals made them honestly (unlike others in positions of power in our game) and for what they believed was the good of the game in Scotland.
—————————————————————————————-
The problem with that is that “the good of the game” was based on there being no TV deal without “Rangers” in the SPL. Why was this the case? Because they ripped up the old deal and replaced it with one that required four “old firm” games AFTER Doncaster and Topping were put in the picture by Whyte. They created their own mess.
Weeminger
History is my thing. The German army weren’t defeated in the field in 1918 but the state had to surrender as the nation faced starvation. But out it came the ‘stabbed in back’ rhetoric of the 20s and the ‘never defeated on the field’ of battle war cry of the 30s onwards.
Sport and ‘real life’ often mirror one another and the WATP crew are (re) writing their ‘history’ on these lines as we speak IMHO.
HH jamesgang
They have no insight into their own behaviour.
Chairbhoy@16.28 and Auldheid@15.10
I appreciate the clarifications that distinguish your positions from mine.
I do not see the “it had to be them or us” outcome, however, as within 18 months, if there is no second liquidation or a reversal of the continuity narrative, there could well be an us and them again.
Both of you agree that Charles Green could have and did apply for entry to the SPL as a new club, or as a continuity club with stripped titles. What I am still unclear on, is how you feel about this.
I am sensing from Paul67 and Chairbhoy an acceptance that what eventually happened was the best we could have hoped for, a scenario which might see us draw level on titles won before they get competitive again, as opposed to a record book which reads 44 to 0.
I am not getting the view from the more guarded position of Auldheid, that he shares that view. He seems to feel, like I do, that the continuity of history is a blasphemous idea which will make it difficult to trust that we are being administered and regulated by a fair competitive body.
In short, because rules could be made up to govern a difficult set of circumstances does not equate, in my mind, to the view that they should be made up.
The only fair route for all past, present and future clubs is to administer the rules as they exist at the time, interpreted without fear or favour.
eddieinkirkmichael
12:28 on 20 January, 2014
I see we’re still interested in Snodgrass, according to some rags. I personnally think he’s very similar to Commons so does this mean Neil thinks Commons is surplus to requiraments?
If I was to choose, I would choose Snodgrass over Commons, I know what commons has brought to the team and love seeing him in the hoops but I personnally think Snodgrass is a better all round footballer
_____________________
Eddie, how much is the Daily Ra*ger paying ye to write that article?
Any more graffiti like that & you might just find yourself getting dragged into your local (church) to get the Devil flushed outta ye.
!!Bada Bing!!
With at least three winger at the club including young Rob if he comes on board, my question would be who are they winging for!!
Mon The No 9!!
setting free the bears supports Res. 12 & Oscar Knox
16:35 on
The second article clearly states Gretna resigned from SFL and were not expelled, they were relegated 2 divisions after the administrator couldn’t offer assurances that they could fulfil next seasons fixtures in the old 1st division. My reading of what went on is that SFL were happy for Gretna to continue playing in SFL even if they were liquidated, as long as they were able to provide assurances that they could fulfill their fixtures in div 3.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/29/gretna
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gretna/7433470.stm
An Tearmann
16:49 on
20 January, 2014
They have no insight into their own behaviour.
………………………………….
and they would never understand that sentence……….braw stupid stupid huns
braw
!!Bada Bing!!
16:40 on 20 January, 2014
Hearing that Snodgrass is very keen to sign for Celtic,and is willing to take a pay cut to make it happen.
Heard that over the weekend but Norwich seem to be playing hard nose with us & seem very uninterested in doing any sort of deal.
I’ve never been anymore excited about the prospect of a new signing since Rafael Scheidt (Ha)
Any chance, any chance at all of having a moratorium on all things RIFC, Sevco, Newco, Newclub, Zombies, Norwegian Blue etc. etc. etc.
I’ve had my fill for now. I’m prepared to wait and see what happens to the current south siders…can everybody else?
Apologies if its just me but enough already!!!!!
weeminger
” It wouldn’t matter if they died completely and went away for a season or two. At some point Ibrox may have new occupiers and at some point that team may rise to the top league and should Glasgow City rise to being our challengers they will automatically attract Celtic haters and as soon as they do the claims of “they never really died” will start again.”
I disagree that it would not matter. I have debated this issue with Estadio Nacional who believes that their death is a proven fact and we should just laugh and cast it up to them.
I have no quarrel with the Rangers fans. I have no wish to prevent them from believing anything they wish and I don’t relish a life long “I say, you say{ exchange of banter on this topic.
My dispute is not with them but with our administrative and ruling bodies. It is they who “seem” to support the continuity narrative, though they will not come out and definitively say so. Unless the official record books show that the club died, then I will have to adopt the position that we have a corrupt and partial administrative body and we are continuing to participate under a WWF or Harlem Globetrotters type of competition.
That is a position that appears to have been reached already by kitalba, Awe Naw and a few other CQNrs. It is a position that the likes of thomthethim, Auldheid, myself an a few others feel might be confirmed anytime soon. We are all committed to saying that that is the day the sport dies and we walk away as active supporters. I can never stop being a Celtic supporter but I can choose when and where to spend my cash on them. It will be a sad day if it is reached.
DjYNWA67
16:53 on
lol
setting free the bears supports Res. 12 & Oscar Knox
17:03 on
20 January, 2014
I wasn’t very clear there. My view is broadly in line with yours.
My point really was that as long as a team plays at Ibrox and attracts a portion of their fans, some will considered them to have survived. Even if the new team made no attempt to link itself to Rangers. Simply being rivals to us will be enough for some to make the link.
eddieinkirkmichael
With apologies to justafan. Afraid you will have to scroll by.
I have read the links provided and I fear we may be at a misunderstanding. They show that Gretna FC were offered an opportunity to continue at Div. 3 level but the administrator, seemingly doing a proper administrator;s job, states that Gretna FC cannot do this and will have to liquidate.
What is not stated is that the debt free new club, Gretna 2008, were offered an opportunity to begin life as a Div.3 club. That is what would have been equivalent to the offer, amongst other failed offers, made to Charles Green’s Sevco.
Can you see the distinction I am making?
6 hrs of free time survived in Bern/Zurich today…. only 4 left!!
Could it be Matthew Lindsay of the Evening Times reads CQN
After pointing out this in the morning
Thindimebhoy
08:44 on 20 January, 2014
I see Matthew Lindsay in today’s Evening Times is another msm journo rewriting history.
Correct me if I’m wrong but when dead club went into admin were the tax paying Celts not already ahead in the league by a few points
History rewritten by Lindsay
“But when the first-team stars at Rangers agreed to accept a reduction in their wages, back in 2012, their form nosedived dramatically. They surrendered a comfortable lead in the top flight and were unable to prevent their Old Firm rivals Celtic from winning the Scottish title”
They have later edited it to this
“But when the first-team stars at Rangers agreed to accept a reduction in their wages, back in 2012, their form nosedived dramatically. Having already surrendered a comfortable lead in the top flight before the new year, they were unable to prevent their Old Firm rivals Celtic from winning the Scottish title