I remember getting annoyed at the grief Gordon Strachan took after David Fernandez inspired Dundee United to a draw at Celtic Park. It was disproportionate, despite the poor performance, and ignored the sporting reality that weaker teams can get it right and leave Celtic Park with a point. As well as a lot of credit for their efforts.
Positives first. Many things didn’t work for Celtic yesterday but James Forrest looked to be back to his best. There was only one occasion he didn’t get past the Killie fullback all day, and he recovered to dispossess two opponents and win the ball back.
For James, it’s all about fitness and confidence. Right now, he has both.
I looked at the clock: 3 minutes had gone, Jozo Simunovic was still on his feet. ‘We’re breaking new ground’, I thought. Kilmarnock defended their penalty area all day, so we were seldom troubled, but you and I have seen enough football to know that’s not the whole story. Jozo was immaculate, didn’t put a foot wrong, covered ground with pace and precision. Threw himself into tackles and won the ball.
The contrast with recent defensive performances could have scarcely been more marked.
Elsewhere it didn’t go so well. Tom Rogic and Nir Bitton were both inhibited. Stuart Armstrong prodded but seemed out of sync with his team-mates. Passes regularly found an opponent. From my seat, it looked like our movement and use of space was inefficient.
The last 30 minutes of the game saw Kilmarnock clear their lines and regroup under sustained pressure. During this period, I was confident the goal would come, it usually does. Maybe the extra dimension we hoped we’ve recruited in Carlton Cole, out ill yesterday, would have given our wing play more of a target.
Since writing on the subject on Friday night I’ve seen some of the sectarian abuse left on Facebook about our director, Ian Livingston, amid a diatribe against refugees and all sorts of people who are minorities in the UK.
Years ago I wrote that there are few values we can anchor the club to. Scotland is changing, as are peoples’ sense of identity, no more so than when it comes to religious identity. We can’t, nor should we, impose restrictions on who becomes a Celtic fan. Our demographic is largely left of centre, but a Lisbon Lion went on to become a Tory councillor, so there’s no political bar to supporting Celtic.
I also know an Ulster unionist, who for several years joined his family and friends as a Celtic season ticket holder. He was always made welcome, and didn’t find the celebration of Irish heritage at Celtic incompatible with his identity. As the generations pass, we’ll see more of this. People will care less about 20th century politics (not to mention 17th century) and your view on transubstantiation.
Our founding value is that we are open to all. You will find a welcome at Celtic irrespective of colour, race or religion, you don’t need to care about Scotland or Ireland, we have Poles, English, Norwegians, Americans, Aussies and many more. Few of them had an Irish grannie.
These values are under threat across Europe. We should take every opportunity to reinforce them.
I took some advice on whether to out those behind the racist abuse yesterday, but I’m glad Ian Livingston did so direct on the Affiliation site (and apologies for the direct quote appearing on a CQN article, I pulled it as soon as I saw it).
I was also challenged over the weekend for criticising the chairman’s right to use any available platform to call out racism. I don’t feel qualified to say that’s not allowed.
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Canamalar just expressed an opinion, you often make some good points, other times I think you’d be best to think before you post but heyho it’s the internet so whatever floats your boat. H H Hebcelt
Canamaler
My all time snoozefest….where I actually did fall asleep.
Was at a History Dept jamboree, where the various professors from Dundee, Glasgow, Edinburgh, St Andrews, were vying for academic superiority.
It was hilarious….they were hellbent on out scottifying each other….spreading the auld scots accent thick.
You wont be surprised to hear…I was merciless in my sarcasm.
It didn’t go down well:)
HH
I see Turkey has shot down a Russian military plane near the Syrian border
BT
Its a wonder you can still speak:)
HH
Hebcelt,
it wasnt a dig mate, sometimes I have to take a think about what I’m posting, then think what the hell its about free speech and whats the point if you dont use it freely :)
Looks like NATO would rather drag us into a war with Russia than accept their responsibility for the state of the middle east.
Nothing covers up crime better than a good war eh.
Turkey telling us their planes shot down the russian while russia are providing proof of no airspace violation and that it was a ground assault that downed the plane, I know who I believe from initial reports.
Macjay 836am
I thought that the principal target in that newspaper opinion piece was Police Scotland and the OBAF Act.
I didn’t see it as a “vicious attack on Celtic”. The writer’s only criticism of Celtic that I could see was in the decision of the board not to adopt the living wage and in the board’s acceptance of the personal politics of Lord Livingstone in view of the impacts of tax credit cuts on the poorest in society; the same group that Celtic were formed to help back in the day.
In fact the writer also challenges and disputes the cosy “one side is as bad as the other” narrative on sectarianism that has fraudulently been bandied about and states that this has been used to conveniently ignore anti-Irish racism in Scotland for years.
So I am baffled as to how you interpret the article as no more than a “vicious attack on Celtic just as the Huns have done for decades”
My guess is that you don’t believe that for one minute – nobody could be so one-eyed and blinkered – and that you’re taking the p1ss and looking for a reaction on here.
If you’re not, then please calm down, take off the cloak of indignation and relax.
Comparing that article to a vicious attack on Celtic, similar to the vicious attacks the Huns have staged over many decades is the ultimate in Drama Queendom even by the lofty heights set by Scottish football cyberspace.
When you resort to hyperbole to try to win an argument then you know that you’ve lost it anyway.
Greeninpinta
As I have stated many times, the only constant is my admiration to the supporters who can and do make the effort. They are the main players in any debate over our future.
In the same way that only Labour party members are the main movers regarding their leader’s future.
That’s going well, isn’t it?
Of course you listen to attending fans and shareholders, but any club worth its salt will have an eye on the leavers, the drifters, and the waverers, analysing the reasons for falling attendances and deciding if action should be taken.
Work and family have kept me off line of late.
The vitriol and senselessness (literally) that’s so prevalent on here at the moment are doing nothing to persuade me that precious time is best spent here.
Reckon my cqn time will increasingly be at the Corner before the game.
A shame given how amazing this place can be at people’s greatest time of need. I know that from personal experience.
:-(
HH jamesgang
Upovergoal 0936-
You make a good point that the club should be engaging with the deserting fans to find out the reasons why they are staying away.
I didn’t renew my season tickets (x2) for the first season since 1993/94 this year.
The club has my email address, home address and landline and mobile phone numbers.
I got numerous reminder letters about renewing even in September as though this was something I had, in a disorganised manner, forgotten to get round to doing and another template plea with Ronny’s name on it would get the job done.
But no attempt to engage to find out the reasons why me and people like me aren’t renewing.
Maybe they wouldn’t like the answers, that’s why they don’t ask. Or maybe they just see it as a temporary blip, brought upon by the demise of Rangers (dd’s comments make me think it’s more likely that).
But I can’t think of any other business that would watch 20 year relationships with customers yielding £1000 per year come to an end and not try to find out why.
It’s A mammoth undertaking to contact all lapsed season ticket holders I know but even if they went after a sample, sent an online survey or something, they could get all sorts of information to try and recapture these fans who are in danger of becoming lost for good.
HI off topic I know…but ..any gas combi boiler experts out there… had a problem with my boiler 5 years old,red light comes on no heating or hot water British gas been out 6-7 times now can not find the problem always restarts and last 2-3 days before red light again.. they have change pump and a few other bits and pieces still same problem now tell me I need a power flush 800 rappers but no guarantee this will fix the problem,if i dont get this done cover is invalid…any suggestions?
Canamalar
For jumping in with both feet as usual, and not apologising when the demanded evidence is presented to them …….doesn’t make much difference anyway, the CT will always put their political agenda before SUPPORTING Celtic …..their negativity is legendary ….!!
LIONROARS67 on 24TH NOVEMBER 2015 8:41 AM
“Unbeknown to us” ……. Do they not check the fact,s before jumping in with both feet..?
Is this significant:
” Mike Ashley has won a court order preventing Rangers shareholders from voting to limit his influence on the club at the annual general meeting.”
I asked yesterday so I am sorry if anyone replied and I missed it.
On another note. One of the reasons I like the proposed idea of Celtic V Dundee in the USA is that it helps distance us from Sevco even more. Every little helps.
JJ
The CT have issued a statement? And why? Where we all waiting for one? Did it clear everything up? Did it make any appoligy for the involvement Canamalar had in the cluster…k of errors he made on the Res.12 debacle? Or did they vote him on there board?
My monies on the latter
Celtic FC Foundation @FoundationCFC 6m6 minutes ago
Happy 50th Birthday to a man who constantly gives up his time to support us, Tom Boyd – a legend, a gentleman and a Celt for life.
Peter
@FoundationCFC @SusanBurke9 A great ambassador for Celtic.
…………Hear Hear
Enjoy your day CQN
Canamalar on 24th November 2015 9:35 am
Russian ‘proof’ in recent months has involved a lot of lying and photoshopping.
Their ‘proof’ that a jet shot down the Malaysian jet, when it was taken down buy a Russian provided BUK SAM.
Their ‘proof’ that they were bombing ISIS when independent sources verified that they were actually bombing FSA areas 100km from they claimed targets.
Right now I’m not inclined to categorically believe either story but given that Turkey has been doing very little to stop ISIS and in some cases allegedly aiding them. I wouldn’t put it past them to down a Russian plane on the slightest of pretenses.
67heaven…,
Lion roars link
“This is not a statement…
Social media is extremely useful but in that time-honoured phrase it often generates more heat than light, consisting, as it does, of multiple cross-cutting conversations which sometimes get conflated. Here we give the key points in full.
1 There was an online debate in the run-up to the AGM centring on Ian Livingston’s role as a Tory member of the House of Lords.
2. The Celtic Trust took little part in the online debate but were voting against him as they have done for some years because he is against greater fan involvement and against the Living Wage. They encouraged others to do the same and touched on the parallel campaign and petition.
3. It appears, though, unbeknownst to many of us at that time, that there were also postings on social media which were anti-Semitic. In a rather odd move, some detail of this was posted yesterday on the Affiliation website from someone purporting to be Ian Livingston. We don’t know if it was or not.
4. There was a vote for Livingston’s re-election at the Celtic PLC AGM because he has already served for a sufficient number of years that he now needs to be re-elected annually.
5. When it came to that part of the agenda at the AGM on Friday 20th November 2015 a shareholder got up to speak and made a very clear statement of why he didn’t want Livingston on the Board. He was (not in a formal sense) representing the views outlined in point 1 ie around the issue of cuts in tax credits.
6. Immediately after his statement the Chairman embarked on what can only be described as an emotional rant which verged on the bizarre – all the more so since he appeared to be reading from a prepared script (so not a slip of the tongue). His words have been reported verbatim but I draw your attention to the words ‘This campaign verges on the criminally racist’. Note the word ‘This’. He also said, although not widely reported, that there were groups who were using Celtic for their own political agenda and ‘we know who they are’ which was again inappropriate. His behaviour was unseemly, appeared out of control, and was entirely the antithesis of what would be expected from the Chairman of an AGM or any other formal meeting.
7. He did not carefully, or in any other way, distinguish between the legitimate views of shareholders and fans (as elucidated by the shareholder who spoke) and anti-Semitic postings which we should all condemn in the strongest terms – and we do.
8. On that basis, the Press who were ranged along the back row, entirely predictably, reported that the Chairman had called our fans racist. In fact, even without bias, it was reasonable to infer that this is precisely what he was doing.
9. When the Press did what they were always going to do, Celtic was approached by fan representatives and asked to limit (it couldn’t be repaired) the damage by releasing a statement.
10. They did so but in a form of words which blamed the press for ‘exaggerating’ his comments and taking them ‘out of context’. Those of us who were in attendance know that they did neither. His words have been reported verbatim and I have to assume, such is the length of the quotes and the uniformity across all the papers, that the press were given his speech in writing by Celtic. So the considered response of Celtic actually compounded the error. Had he offered a full apology at that point with no deflection of blame on to the nearest easy target (the press) we would not still be talking about it now.
11. The Celtic Trust met with a number of sister organisations and discussed what our response should be. Three of those organisations decided that we simply could not allow Mr Bankier’s words, made in such a public way, go unchallenged, beyond the weekend. We are well aware of the dangers of doing so and therefore very rarely do it. Mr Bankier’s error and his failure to apologise, made it necessary in our view and we stand by that.
13. Celtic’s response on Sunday evening simply did not address any of this although they made an offer to meet which we shall take up.
14. The crux of the matter is this: did Mr Bankier think that the culprits were at the AGM? If he did not, which he now says he didn’t, why did he raise the matter repeatedly and with such vehemence?
15. If he didn’t think they were in the room then his only motivation for mentioning this, other than in the passing, was to offer some kind of defence for Mr Livingston and, in a cack-handed way, attempt to morally blackmail shareholders into voting for the re-election of Mr Livingston. Was he trying to infer that a vote against Livingston was a vote for anti-semitism (although he did not use that word)? This interpretation is perhaps supported by his ‘I am disappointed in you’ comment after the vote was taken, the majority voted no, and he was forced to call a poll to include the proxy votes.
16. The other question is, when did Mr Bankier become aware of these comments and why did he wait until the AGM to raise them? If he was using it to make a planned intervention at the AGM (remember he was reading from notes) with the purpose of influencing the vote then this is wholly reprehensible on a number of levels. It is an abuse of his position as Chair and, ironically, a minimising of the impact of racism and sectarianism.
17. On any view, whatever his intentions, he created a press furore which was damaging to the Club, insulted many fans and harangued shareholders for expressing their views at an AGM. This is not the first time he has handled the press in a less than impressive way. His performance was simply not acceptable on his one necessarily public outing of the year and he must, as we have indicated, consider his position. The issue is not longer anything to do with Mr Livingston – he has been re-elected. It is about Mr Bankier and whether he is fit for the job.
18. The Celtic Trust will continue this discussion with Celtic and do not plan to make any further comment in the meantime.
Part 2 of the AGM report will follow soon.”
Is the only CT questions I can find regarding the AGM.
Obviously you have a better source than their website, please share.
Or apologise the the CT for lying about them.
Does anyone have a list of Season Ticket numbers for the last five years?
JJ
Jungle Jim Hot Smoked on 24th November 2015 10:19 am –
You should be able to get by looking at the annual reports from the club site.
the glorious balance sheet on 24th November 2015 9:36 am
====================================================
Reaction? Why would I want that?
Read back. Apparently I eat babies.
Why don`t you focus on that particular piece of hideous nonsense?
Surprising as it may seem,I`m not trying to win an argument.
I`m trying to protect and support Celtic from the enemy within.
I have watched the ongoing encroachment of external factions with their “agendae’ attempting to stick their political opinions on Celtic for a number of years.
The upside down banners directed at John Reid.
The extremely expensive banner depicting Bobby Sands. 42,000 pounds worth.
And then the hypocrites do a food drive.How much food can you buy for 42,000 pounds?
The aggresive nature of these political parasites who attempt to stick their outdated mentality onto Celtic.
Socialism?
Where did that work?
Tell me where.
Guess what.They have nowhere else to go ,so they stick their agenda on Celtic.
The recent A.G.M. showed them in their true colours.
Provisional Tims.
Who support Celtic as long as…………………
Celtic need that mob as much as they need the huns,except that they`re more dangerous and their recent “victory” at the A.G.M. makes them even more so.
Your trite little reference to hyperbole and insulting accusation of Queendom I`ll ignore.
Er apparantly Russian helicopters searching for the pilots have now also been shot down.
Weeminger,
when half the Malysian plane is still lying in Ukrainian fields I’m not inclined to put much faith in a NATO led investigation.
There are more sources than the BBC and CNN.
Please share with us these independent sources, that you get your info from, they wouldn’t include the observatory of a Coventry semi detached house would they ?
I remember you or someone on here using them as an independent source only to find out it was a one man operation and that one man has not been in Syria since 2000.
Weeminger
Thanks for that but I am far too idle to do that kind of research 0:-).
JJ
Canamalar
Thanks for posting that CT Statement. I know it is only from one side but it was a great help in enabling some awareness of what the argument is about.
JJ
Canamalar on 24th November 2015 10:19 am
This subject has now been wee covered, you cant beat intransigent agendas
Now the resident redneck with a megaphone has entered the blog
Celtic have big game on Thursday, time to get behind the team
I see its break time for our baby eating trolls
the glorious balance sheet on 24th November 2015 9:36 am
So,you consider that this is not a vicious attack on Celtic????????????
===========================================================
Celtic FC’s board made the hypocrisy of “keeping politics out of sport” abundantly clear this week. First, they booted out proposals to pay their cleaners and caterers the living wage. Then, they re-elected Tory peer Lord Livingston to the board, after fans protested over his role in cutting tax credits. In both cases, the same rationale: sport is business, not politics. In the name of such exalted sentiments, the men who inherited Brother Walfrid’s legacy are telling us to leave our politics at the turnstile, and let the sporting businesspeople manage the sporting business. –
Hypocrisy.
Booted out.
Cleaners and caterers……………Shocking,No? The bastards!
Tory peer.
Sport is business.
exalted sentiments……pitiful sarcasm.
And then the plea to the faithful…….Bro.Walfrid.
JJ..,
I’d have rather let the CT site get the hits, but people like 67heaven and our baby eating trolls prefer ignorance to back up their arguments, if we know what is being said we kill their stupid arguments, innit.
http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/um/conclusions_lennoxtown_151124.pdf
the glorious balance sheet on 24th November 2015 9:36 am –
Careful with the company you keep.
CANAMALAR on 24TH NOVEMBER 2015 10:36 AM
I see its break time for our baby eating trolls
–
Canamalar on 24th November 2015 10:30 am
That’s the guy. Here’s the thing – you can dismiss him all you like but OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) which is what he’s a pioneer of, is rapidly being adopted by news and intelligence agencies alike.
He’s not pretending he’s out in the field but he’s adept at using publicly shared information from those that are.
He’s got plenty of instructions on how to do what he does for yourself. He’s open about it. Ultimately he’d like those with the time to get the information themselves and stop requiring BBC, RT et al altogether.
Weeminger,
he is an amateur and has been caught lying, he is being used by western propaganda peddlers because he says what they want to sell.
He has zero credentials and is anti Assad, you are offering him as a creditable source ffs.
get a grip pal
This is not a statement.
7. He did not carefully, or in any other way, distinguish between the legitimate views of shareholders and fans (as elucidated by the shareholder who spoke) and anti-Semitic postings which we should all condemn in t – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/saturday-agm-afterblow/comment-page-12/#comment-2724398
Canamalar
” I’d have rather let the CT site get the hits “.
As it happens, they still did ! I wasn`t sure if the CT Statement is what you had posted so I scrolled back , saw a link and clicked. Everyone is happy 0:-)))))
Off out cycling and popping in to see ACGR.
Cheerio for now,
JJ
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14099097.Spending_watchdog__No_fraud_or_corruption_in_sale_of_land_for_Celtic_s_Lennoxtown_training_complex/
FINANCIAL watchdogs have found no evidence of fraud or corruption in Celtic’s purchase of its Lennoxtown training facility.
But the probe by Audit Scotland has raised a series of weaknesses in the financial monitoring arrangements by the various public bodies involved in the sale of the land to Celtic and by the club itself.
The report states: “This creates an environment in which accusations of fraud or corruption are more easily made and are more difficult to rebut.”
It added that the local NHS board, East Dunbartonshire Council and the special purpose company set up to redevelop the Lennoxtown area “should have had more robust processes in place to demonstrate that the public funds provided were used for the charitable purposes intended, and that use of the resources in this way represented Best Value.”
A previous ruling by the EU found Celtic did not receive state aid by Glasgow City Council in any land deals.
And this isn’t a statement either.
8. On that basis, the Press who were ranged along the back row, entirely predictably, reported that the Chairman had called our fans racist. In fact, even without bias, it was reasonable to infer that this is precisely what he was doing. – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/saturday-agm-afterblow/comment-page-12/#comments
Canamalar on 24th November 2015 10:49 am
Show me the proof that he’s been caught lying. Did it come form an independent source?