Not for the first time around Ibrox, we’re deep into denial territory than an insolvency incident is imminent. A whole load of irrelevant questions have been answered; they will not go into administration on ‘Sash Wednesday’, nor will a board meeting be convened today, but the pertinent question, whether club consultant Philip Nash, and director Graham Wallace, have held pre-administration talks, remains curiously unaddressed.
My information is that administration is only one of a number of options under consideration.
They have alternatives. A sale and leaseback of the stadium and (still magnificently named) Murray Park could provide the club with enough money to see them through until season ticket renewal time next year, when they have a chance of being in the Premiership. If it was your objective to maintain shareholder value, this must surely be considered. Cast your mind over what we know about the bulk of the shareholders and there should be no doubt about their priorities. These are not shareholders who will accept cumulative losses or even a pound-in-pound-out model.
They could continue to secure assets against borrowing from hedge fund-shareholders at an interest rate of 30%. This is an attractive return for a hedge fund. If they secure the stadium in return for a future loan they will be in a position to earn attractive returns from whichever club plays there for many years to come.
If you are a fan, or indeed, a director of Oldco, who set on a path to liquidation, this reality will feel intolerable. Those responsible for strategy, oversight and governance at Oldco set the wheels in motion; Newco’s burden is a consequence of Oldco trying to put their rivals in their place, and allowing the wolves in.
Intolerable though the situation may be, I’m not sure what can be done about it. Using season ticket sales to threaten to subvert the value of investments made by hedge funds, and shareholders who have made it their absolute priority to remain anonymous, is incredibly risky. Incredibly. Risky.
Here’s the question, are those anonymous investors likely to submit to threats, or are they the kind of people who can afford to play hardball and would raze the stadium to the ground rather than be bullied?
My guess is we are talking about hardnosed, wealthy individuals, who will forever remain anonymous and who have never been bullied by minority shareholder action in their lives. It’s easy to whip football fans into a pitchfork-esque revolt, 10 years of CQN has provided regular evidence of this (mostly over comparatively trivial misinformation), but if this was my club, I’d be going off my head at the behaviour of just about everyone involved and I don’t think I’d be able to sleep at night.
‘Seville’, the book detailing the incredible stories you, the Celtic support, experienced and set down on record, is out this month. To order your copy click on the link below.
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John O’Neil
10:57 on 4 March, 2014
‘The story about the far Left’s historic desire to help perverts has not gone away. We will discover more.’
##
You’re as muddled headed on this issue as you are on others.
Harman, Hewitt, Dromey etc were never part of the far left. They were liberals with a small l.
I remember the scorn and derision with which the far left regarded Dromey at the time of the Grunwick dispute, when he was the local union full timer.
I also specifically remember the PIE issue being discussed in Socialist Worker. Their claims for some form of legitimacy or acceptance were dismissed outright.
Perversion, in all its various manifestations, does not necessarily respect political boundaries. Having said that the guest list for the Elm Tree Guesthouse does contain a disproportionate number of Monday Club members. And Saville was of course a close friend of Thatcher. Make of that what you will.
Jungle Jim:
Do you think following Celtic is still the domain of the father and four sons? Do you still think Parkhead is home to the working class, and the unemployed, and the disadvantaged, of Glasgow?
I know it is a business; I appreciate and understand that. I know we need money to compete, but by what is the factor of money do we need to calculate having a better than better chance of winning the Scottish League?
The support is drifting away, don’t listen to ‘official’ counts, believe your eyes instead, and once you’ve done that, ask yourself this, which demographic of the support is drifting away the most? And then ask yourself, and Celtic, why?
Liverpool announce loss of nearly £50 million in latest annual club accounts. £140 million losses reported for the past three years combined.
“These results demonstrate that the financial health of the club continues to make good progress as we continue our journey to transform the club on and off the pitch,” said the club’s managing director, Ian Ayre.
Make of it what you will. I am splitting my sides laughing!!
Jungle Jim:
I also remember this from my father whose life outside the family was Celtic…
“Remember this, Celtic won’t put food on your table, so before you put food on theirs’ make sure your kids don’t go without”
weeminger,
Thanks for that. The more simplistic the better for me:-).
One last question though. Who are the buyers?
Árd Macha
BigYinMilan
£50m loss is nothing to secure a top 4 finish and ECL football.
The money in the English game is obscene.
LB
May I ask a rather obvious question:
If there is absolutely no danger of a 2nd Administration down Govan way, why would Administration be one of the options under consideration?
Jungle Jim:
And I know this too… every single Celtic Supporter I was brought up with, and still keep in touch with, is questioning whether they are going to renew next season.
Every single one.
kitalba
11:25 on
4 March, 2014
Sorry to interject. I would say that yes, attendances are definitely and unarguably down but ST sales still remain relatively high (above the actual attendances) which to me shows a couple of things.
1) a huge number still retain their love of Celtic and will continue to buy a ST even if they don’t go very often.
2) Celtic need to work harder to enhance the match day experience and cheapen the overall cost. eg a voucher book for a free pie, or chips at every home game – 1 per game for each game ie can’t be saved up etc.
When we had 53k ST holders the big influx was among 20-somethings with plenty of ready cash – that’s a demographic that’s all but disappeared in these times – as the economy recovers we will hopefully see that group returning in numbers.
kitalba
11:25 on 4 March, 2014
1. You’re not supposed to call it Parkhead. The proper name is Celtic Park. It’s a kind of Celtic version of U and nonU.
2. Bob Crampsie used to say that football, as a mass spectator sport, grew with the growth of the industrial working class, and would decline as the industrial working class declined. That seems to be happening, after a fashion.
3. Now that you and GCT have appear to have reached some kind of rapprochement, do either of you fancy a gig in the Ukraine?
Mea culpa,
I strongly believe Sleekit and co are playing with words and semantics.
There is no fear of a second administration to The Rangers because there hasn’t been a first.
Kitalba
Re your point about leaving the power to make decisions in the hands of a few. That is what the CST’s annual Resolution 10 (I think it was last AGM) attempts to address.
It is something I support because the more minds brought to bear on an issue the more likliehood of a solution acceptable to the majority.
I keep banging on about mechanisms to bring minds together. The mechanism exists in raw material form in social media. What needs to happen is to harness that material and put it to purpose.
A start has finally been made with the Supporters Forum.
Also the wee team working with Celtic on Res12 are showing Celtic the benefits of using the vast resource the support represent and which is waiting to be tapped into.
That wee team are in fact representing the thoughts and feelings of the support shared here, in pubs, at meetings and social gatherings.
So the world is changing and how “The Board” relate to that world will change too.
Sometimes we have to step back and take in the big picture and the more we appreciate what goes in to creating that picture the more amazing and wonderful a creation it is.
Sometimes if we are too close to the canvass we miss something interesting elsewhere or think the bit we are focussing on is all there is and get trapped in our perception.
Árd Macha
11:29 on 4 March, 2014
The buyers would be the winners here. So they’ll be the ones currently pulling the strings.
weeminger:
I won’t argue with what you say, I can’t, for years I was one of those season ticket holders who never went to a game, I couldn’t afford the bus fare, but not anymore.
Actually, with the shortest reflection ever, I might be out by one or two, but after forking out for ten season tickets I believe I took my own seat twice.
Mea Culpa
11:31 on 4 March, 2014
Maybe because having considered the possibility of Administration they have rejected it and have gone for plan B.
Mea Culpa
11:31 on
4 March, 2014
I’m with Geordie Munro here – they’re changing the narrative because they need ti to be a first admin, to prevent the 25 pt deduction.
And perhaps it’s no longer an option because (as rumours seem to be building) the sale and leaseback route is on the way.
kitalba
10:43 on 4 March, 2014
My love for Celtic has honestly grown / intensified over the years, and I truly admire your honesty…..Celtic have brought me so much joy……
(as far as KevJ is concerned, I have no idea why you would think I shouldn’t worry too much about him….I find him amusing, when I bother to read his ‘hunnish’ drivel….)……. :)
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS ………FC not PLC
09:42 on 4 March, 2014
‘I get nostalgic sometimes for the old stadium,especially the floodlights.’
####
Were you in the Luftwaffe?
If there is really no chance of administration, is there a possibility that the notion is being leaked by those in charge? So when a slightly more palatable solution comes along they can claim to have saved the club from admin?
Or am I giving them too much credit?
The first/second Administration thing is a bit of a red herring.
It would be a first Administration-under the current rules- whatever view you took of the whole new club/ old club question.
Weeminger,
Bang on neebs.
kitalba
11:40 on
4 March, 2014
I might be wrong, it’s just my impression but I’ve been in my seat for 15 years and most of the guys around me are in my age range and many have other options now as well, although I know of a couple that are a year or two away of resuming STs and bringing the kids. There will be this kind of cyclical aspect to it as well.
I don’t know anybody personally that’s given up for reasons that weren’t primarily financial or time oriented. Certainly not board related as the main cause, although it was a factor in a couple of them – even that was disparate – 1 was team spend, the other fan punishment related and lack of breaking the ‘old firm’.
Lawwell appointment even more significant…
March 4 – UEFA are reportedly set to
discuss the idea of a new so-called
‘Nations League’ competition, dividing
its 54 members into a number of
divisions offering club-style promotion
and relegation.
According to unconfirmed reports, the
concept would see UEFA using dates
for friendlies in the international
calendar from 2018 to launch the new
league which will apparently be
debated more fully at the upcoming
UEFA Congress in Kazakhstan.
The discussions are taking place amid
concern that the qualifying campaign
for the expanded 2016 European
Championships finals – and the 24-
nation finals themselves – will reduce
the quality of competition.
Several formats have been proposed
for the proposed new league,
including a top division of 12
countries, split into four groups of
three to provide semi-finalists in years
outside of major championships.
Last weekend, on the fringes of the
International FA Board meeting in
Zurich, English FA chairman Greg
Dyke gave a cautious welcome to the
idea.
“In principle, we’d be quite
interested,” he said. “The hard thing
about that is the detail but I think a
Nations League where we played the
top nations would be very attractive.”
ernie lynch,
Thanks for that.
Árd Macha
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon
11:45 on
4 March, 2014
Nope that’s exactly what’s happening. They need it to be seen by the hordes as a last resort and they have no choice if admin is to be avoided.
Unfortunately, the clubs status as a PLC is not a perfect model that fits with the clubs history.
However, it may be the best compared to the alternatives. I certainly wouldn’t want my beloved Glasgow Celtic to be ran at the behest of a single person ala Minty Moonbeams. The idea of a supercasino with a floating pitch down London Road would be terrifying.
Fan ownership is the obvious alternative. But even when you look at FC Barcelona, another club that is “more than a club”, you have had slimy political types like Laporta being elected. His successor has had to resign as a result of tax irregularities. Hoeness at FC Bayern is not much better. The unfortunate thing about positions of power is that often the only people who want them are the type of people who chase it for selfish reasons.
The club would still require a Chief Executive like Lawwell. Maybe with a different title. Guys of his calibre don’t come cheap (as we know)
Unfortunately operating as PLC means a board will tend to work on a need-to-know basis which means keeping the fans in the dark.
However, I don’t agree with the view that popular opinion amongst the fans is always right.
MSP commitee discussing offensive behavior at football bill. Deny, deflect and outright lies is the order of the day from the SNP.
Weeminger,
I meant bang on @ 1135.
Ernie @1146
Exactly. So there’ll be no second administration. No administration AGAIN. No administration part 2
Weeminger
Your suggestions as to why actual attendances are down are valid. However, it’s worth mentioning that there are Celtic supporters who have followed the club for decades who are only now getting to the stage where they think that enough is enough.
The ABaF act, police harassment both at Parkhead and away grounds, aggressive stewarding and the club’s lack of support for those being criminalised are starting to have an effect.
I’m worried what attendances will be like at home next season.
Auldheid:
You told me that Celtic have been working on their interpretation of Res 12 since 2011. All I can think of is thank God that the snails that made the Ark were more fleet of foot otherwise the world would have lost another species.
The board are going to lose the support before the canvas is touched with a brush. Look around the stadium on match day. Take a moment and look around and reflect.
But that is all bullshit mate, my point from earlier was a simple one, why should a few people of questionable credentials be allowed to dictate the future of the Celtic Culture to the Celtic populace when the Celtic populace, in this day and age, are well capable of letting the elite few know the wishes of the majority. Is our need for money, which does NOT finance our ambitions, supercede our ethos?
Take as many steps back as you want and as you procrastinate in deliberation, and view a blank canvas, supporters without patience or understanding are going to drift.
Supporters don’t want to set out on a journey to creation in ten years time, supporters want to get on the bus and have the bus start now. Bear in mind, a lot of supporters won’t ever see the first toilet stop on the journey.
ASonOfDan
11:51 on 4 March, 2014
MSP commitee discussing offensive behavior at football bill. Deny, deflect and outright lies is the order of the day from the SNP.
———————————–
I can’t access it from here what are they saying?
As if we didn’t already know.
Bmcuw,(i think it was you).
I enjoyed the read bout Arthur Scargill and his views on government fuel policy and the the economic viability of the coal industry. particularly now the U.K is a net importer of fuel.As the situation in the Ukraine shows we are vulnerable to those who now supply Gas etc,you can bet those prices will shoot up.
HH
weeminger:
This year has not been a great year for me, I had a very simple choice to make, give up my season ticket or give up my charitable contributions. It was a no brainer.
@kitalba
“questionable credentials”
Who are you referring to? And what credentials are you looking for exactly?
“Is our need for money, which does NOT finance our ambitions, supercede our ethos?”
What money? Are you referring to dividends? Salary?
ernie lynch
11:46 on 4 March, 2014
CORRECT……the old club were Liquidated……and that’s that…
Auldheid
11:14 on
4 March, 2014
My take on the ECA is the same as when they issued the ‘same’ club nonsense about Sevco. They are an utter irrelevance. European football is governed by one maxim “profit”. There will be no change, no implementation of the much vaunted FFP, regardless of loobying, as long as the game is primarily run as a business first with sporting integrity and competition being a very distant second in order of priority.
UEFA are powerless to act against the ‘rich’ clubs. They have the Sword of Damocles hanging over them. Implement FFP and the rich clubs resign from their respective associations and form their own European super league taking all the TV sponsorship with them and leaving UEFA with nothing but a multitude of backwater soon to be penniless leagues. FIFA would be powerless to intervene apart from banning the super league players from participating in a WC. Would the majority care? Not a chance when they are earning obscene amounts of cash playing club football, the world cup is a merely wee bauble. Would this European football ‘Armageddon’ scenario benefit Celtic ? Undoubtedly if we were to receive an invite to participate in the league of greed, which is incidentally the only way I can envisage Celtic being able to ply their trade out with Scotland for the foreseeable future.
Perhaps PLs energies may be best directed at lobbying UEFA to do something about the SFA (if he hasn’t done so already) or lobbying the Scots government to repeal the offensive behavior bill (again maybe he has done so already)
HT
Having held 2 season tickets now for 20 years, that is exactly what has me questioning my renewal
Not in slightest bit interested in that other mob, but our own fans, and how we are now being criminalised in our own ground for what ? And absolutely no reaction, that I am aware off from our board
Maybe a question, how many Celtic fans arrested inside Celtic park pre new act, and how many in last 2 years ?
Ask the same question of other clubs ? Like Aberdeen fans from a few weeks ago, who enjoyed throwing chairs about, any arrests ?
I will renew next season, and assess from there
Hail Hail
Weeminger
Spot on.
There needs to be less disparity between the cost of attending and the cost of viewing.
That model exists for supporters based overseas with the Overseas Season Ticket. It is a great shame that collective agreements and UK broadcasting restrictions prevent that model being used in the UK.
On the matchday experience it would help if we had summer football. It has CL qualifying advantages as well as chances of better weather AND more light.
Provide food and shelter and stuff to entertain before and after the game and more will turn up.
Make it easier for folk to turn up. Help supporter clubs to fill buses by letting everyone in a specific area know which Celtic supporter lives 2 streets away . (Post Code search to get their names and address and get permission to share with local organiser.
Encourage car sharing by same means.
If a car is being used think Disneyland where parking is easy and close with good entrance and exit access. (I appreciate this is not all in Celtic’s control but improvements can be seen emerging with Commonwealth games work).
There are many reasons for crowds dropping but thanks to CL money and more joined up thinking there is the opportunity to transform the whole Celtic supporting experience.