I was at primary school during the 1979 devolution referendum. It’s fair to say many in the Celtic community were suspicious of the SNP due to the hostile attitudes some of the party leadership had to the Irish diaspora in their midst.
Fresh blood brought change to the SNP in the 1980s, there were even overtures to Irish nationalism. Alex Salmond cemented these changes, broadened the appeal of the party towards new and multi-generation immigrants, and asserted the SNP’s multi-faith credentials. He also became close friends with disgraced Cardinal O’Brien (which is no reflection on Mr Salmond).
At the height of his political powers Salmond appears to have overreached. Something would be done about men shouting at football games. From now on only certain flavours of nationalism would be favoured, acceptable, perhaps even legal. MSP Christine Graham let the Scottish Parliament know, the problem was that Celtic fans were not acting illegally, so the law had to change.
The Axe the Act candidate in today’s Glasgow City Council, Govan, by-election, Thomas Rannachan has brought the consequences of Salmond’s largess to his door. The SNP are defending the seat but one year out from the battle Salmond really needs to win, his shoddy attack on football fans is set to undermine him. As an independent Rannachan may not win, but he has put the First Minister on the back foot.
George Ryan’s funeral will take place at St Andrew’s Cathedral, Glasgow, at 10:00 on Monday. All are welcome.
Sean’s book’s here, fill your boots:
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Micktt
Yep sadly on the whole I’d agree with your analysis.
79caps
11:40 on 11 October, 2013
‘The words of Land of Hope and Glory were not written by Elgar.’
###
Sorry I thought everyone knew that.
The tune is an orchestral march. It’s actually meant to be sad, reflective, melancholy, not triumphalist.
Elgar regretted the jingoism that went with the song, particularly in the aftermath of WW1.
79
Still a sh*** song though :-)
Morning all
Loathe to get involved in the independence debate but will say this..
It’s pretty simple for me, as an Irish republican I believe that everything that is possible should be done to encourage a Yes vote in the referendum. This is not just a vote on the future of Scotland but is also a vote on the future of the UK state. A state which still continues to occupy part of Ireland.
I remember the stickers the JCS did many moons ago
Scotland out of Britain out of Ireland
7 simple words that I subscribe too.
I will be voting Yes next year and will along with others continue to press for an all Ireland unification referendum in the 100th anniversary year of the Easter Rising.
Ernie
I know you’re not one for divulging personal details on here but I’d be interested to know if you live in Scotland. Not as a tool to beat you with, I’m simply trying to establish whether demographics have a significant baring on the YES/NO opinions.
scottishleaf
11:44 on 11 October, 2013
I take it you are aware that James Connolly never called for Scotland to leave the UK?
There again you maybe prefer to keep your level of understanding to seven simple word slogans.
Hamiltontim is praying for Oscar
11:47 on 11 October, 2013
I live in Scotland. I have lived elsewhere.
Scottishleaf
I agree. One very good reason for voting for Scottish independence is that it will bring a united Ireland nearer. That is why the Northern Irish unionists and their allies in Scotland, e.g. the Orange Lodges, are vehemently opposed to it.
hamiltontim is praying for oscar
11:43 on 11 October, 2013
Micktt
Yep sadly on the whole I’d agree with your analysis.
I’ve said before my old man has always said.
If P is in a position to give a job to P or C, he will start P.
If C is in a position to give P or C a job, he will start P.
Scenario A is just looked at as the norm, no issues.
Scenario B is the comfortable option where nothing can be said in relation to discrimination.
HH
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see how the Offensive Behaviour bill has anything to do with whether Scotland is independant or not. This has nothing to do with Westminster, it is a Scottish issue to be dealt with through the Scottish parliament, whatever form that takes.
HH
hamiltontim is praying for oscar
11:32 on 11 October, 2013
BMCUW
You should go and visit Elgar’s grave. He lies about 20 yards from my mammy’s shop in Worcester :-)
Sorry mate but are you referring to the SNP in your last paragraph?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That’s what he gets for trying to leave without paying!
Second part-I meant that screwing the OO etc is not wise until you know you can do without their votes.
Political expediency,however unpalatable.
Their strength HAS been weakened,IMO. WATCH JUST ANOTHER SATURDAY,as an example.
Revisit history,see what was once common. Ask yourself how much it happens now.
There are no Gervaghy Roads in Scotland.
George Ryan
I did not have the privilege of knowing the man but the tributes here say all that is needed.
Funeral notice and tribute in the Herald
http://familynotices.heraldscotland.com/details.cgi?eid=bb71a9f94f07d31ez3r
Ole Edward Elgar was a mental Wolves supporter
THere’s a statue of him at the Molyneux.
Just in to say….
The establishment can allow as many OO parades as they like as, every time I see one of these parades I’m reminded of a – throw away line – from a sage Celt/Tim who opined….
“Look at the state of them, walking up there like a load of old men who had just s#it their troosers!” That’ll do for me :)
Anyway – I say let them have their parades but, you know what…NO amount of OO parades could hurt me – as much as the sight of a Glorious Celtic team doing a lap of honor roon Hamdump with a trophy bedecked in green n white ribbons – being serenaded by the Cellic support to one of their – ‘spine-tingling renditions of YNWA’ – nothing but nothing gets it ROON them more than that. imo
In fact – the above used to get it roon them that much that, they stated invading the pitch and eventually they got their way(again) when – laps of honor were banned !!!
Only in Scotland.
Thought for the day – CSC
Off oot.
Minister of funny walks-any cqn’r that wiz at the day oot
HH
ernie lynch
Is it possible for you to respond to any posts without attempting to insult the poster?
it’s precisely this level of debate that makes me loathe to engage with you.
Did Connolly call for Scotland to leave the UK? Perhaps not explicitly or overtly but if alive he would certainly be campaigning for a yes vote .He also inspired John Maclean who combined socialist and nationalist feeling to form The Scottish Workers Republican Party.
My level of understanding extends well beyond a simple 7 word slogan.
The article sums up very well the arguments for voting yes if you are an Irish Republican living in Scotland.
by Jim Slaven (James Connolly Society)
The referendum campaign in Scotland is well under way and almost all politics is dominated by the 2014 vote. Every political statement and decision is viewed through the prism of the constitutional debate. For Irish republicans in Scotland our position on the referendum is a key political decision. It has an impact on our future strategies in Scotland and in Ireland. Historically the Irish community have been split on support for Scottish independence and this continues to be the case. That is not a reason to shirk away from engagement in the referendum campaign, it merely highlights the need for republicans to take a principled position and show some leadership on this issue.
The British Labour Party and other unionists are engaged in a dreadful campaign promoting fear and confusion within our community. They attempt to conflate support for independence with support for the SNP. This must be challenged on two grounds. Firstly we must remember that when Labour ran Scotland like a one party state for fifty years they did absolutely nothing to combat anti-Irish racism or religious bigotry. They did nothing to improve the material conditions of the Irish community or the working class in Scotland. They did nothing to help those most in need because they were too busy helping themselves. The constitutional status quo offers us more of the same and no more. Republicans have nothing to fear from constitutional change and everything to gain.
Secondly this is not about support for the SNP. This is about self determination. The James Connolly Society have, since our formation over 25 years ago, supported the break-up of the UK state and the establishment of a Scottish Republic. Our members have been involved in various campaigns for Scottish self determination, from Scotland United to the referendum campaign of 1997. We supported the establishment of the Scottish Parliament when the SNP were still opposing it.
In our view it is our responsibility as Irish republicans to support, in practice, the right of nations to determine their own constitutional future. Not just in Ireland but here in Scotland too. The SNP’s plans for Dominion status are dreadful. However there is nobody better placed to offer a radical alternative than republicans aided by our analysis of the UK state and Connolly’s writing on what is now called neo-colonialism. Let me be clear this referendum will not deliver the Scottish republic we seek; it is, however, a necessary, if not sufficient, signpost on the road to the republic.
A Yes vote also opens up new vistas for republicans in a wider context. As Irish republicans who happen to be in Scotland we must also think strategically in an Irish context. The UK state’s continued denial of the Irish people their right to national self determination remains the cause of conflict. The task for republicans is to develop strategies for achieving Irish freedom and establishing the Republic envisaged in the 1916 Proclamation. In order to achieve our republican objectives we must first recognise where the centre of gravity in the struggle lies. The centre of gravity in this struggle lies with the Irish people. It is the Irish people who we must mobilise in a national, bottom up campaign for an all Ireland referendum on a new Republic.
Anyone watching the news coverage of the laughable British Planters poll in Malvinas will recognise that a Planters poll in the occupied Six Counties is not a serious democratic proposition. Only through an all Ireland referendum can the Irish people exercise their right to national self determination without outside interference or impediment. Let me go further by paraphrasing the Greek political theorist Nicos Poulantzas, the Republic will be established democratically or it will not be established at all.
So both in a Scottish and Irish context it is important that republicans in Scotland support a Yes vote in 2014. To stand on the sidelines is to take a side, the wrong side. Working, in Scotland, for an Irish republic but not supporting a Scottish republic is not serious politics. Republicans can and must be the catalyst for change within our communities. We have serious and profound differences with nationalist political parties and with the Yes Scotland campaign but they are not the enemy. The UK state is the enemy of working class people in Scotland and in Ireland. Republicans in Scotland, armed with the analysis of Connolly, MacLean and Sands, must now put that analysis into practice. The 2014 referendum is an opportunity to advance the struggle for freedom and independence in Scotland and Ireland.
I rarely take part in the Scottish independence debates on here for the very good reason that as an Irishman, it’s none of my business.
I will however say that anyone plugging a yes vote on the basis that it will bring a United Ireland closer to realisation, is with all due respect, talking clap trap. A yes or no in Scotland will make no tangible difference to the age old unionist nationalist arguments in Ireland.
stated = started
sorry
gremlins
MICKTT
Once you are inside the tent,pissing out,you then realise there’s another tent. And you are getting it from both sides.
That is what I mean by saying that winning office is only the first step to winning power.
You and I both know of councillors who fired their ammo too early.
SO…………Bottom line…………
If tomorrow was polling day, how would CQN vote ?
YES………………………… NO……………………….DON’T KNOW
Kilbowie Kelt………………….John O’Neil Skyisalandfill.
Hamiltontim. verdantvic Hamiltontim..
Neustadt-Braw. Philbhoy.
The Exiled Tim.
DiCanioWasADream.
Turkeybhoy.
Saint Stiv’s.
Delaney’s Donkey.
Apologies to anybody missed or misrepresented.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS forza Oscar and Mackenzie
Couldn’t agree more,the success of many on this board is testament to that.
Too many people seem to want to sit at the back of the bus despite no one asking them to.
ASonOfDan
Nazi Germany was far from economically vibrant in the thirties. In fact it needed war to avert another economic crisis, such as Germany endured after the 1914-18 war and after a few better years at the end of the 20s, on into the early thirties and the arrival of Hitler. The Nazis were reckless spenders of money they didn’t have.
It would unfortunate if anyone’s decision on which way to vote in the independence referendum next year – either for or against – was based mainly on the Offensive Behaviour Bill.
Fortunately the turnout for the FAC candidate in Govan yesterday would suggest that this is unlikely to be a factor in the outcome next year.
WEET WEET WEET
Difficult to walk normally while trying to have a conversation wi you,bud.
My neck’s still stiff!
Great meeting you,btw. Next time SANNABHOY comes out without his posh taxi-some machine!-I’m just gonna hitch a lift in your back pocket….
Ernie
Thank you. It would be interesting to know how many people on here advocating independence actually live here. That’s not a criticism of anyone merely an enquiry.
Scottishleaf
As a long time supporter of Irish Republicanism it’s Salmond’s policies that would encourage me to vote no.
What a bollox…. I will try again.
KK -put me down as a No
Although I appreciate that the NHS in Scotland has been [partially ]saved by devolution I’m afraid I have little faith in the SNP to be left in charge of the whole show.
Of course the other quandary I have is I’d like to stay in the EU, in which case it may be better to vote Yes, but there still remains the problem of the
Windfarms
Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
79caps
11:54 on 11 October, 2013
‘One very good reason for voting for Scottish independence is that it will bring a united Ireland nearer.’
###
That’s the sort of slack jawed non thinking that nats indulge in.
How exactly will Scotland leaving the uk have any influence on Ireland.
SF have conceded that a united Ireland will only come about when a majority of the people in the north vote for it.
So you want us to believe that Scotland leaving the uk will somehow make it more likely that people in the north of Ireland will vote for a united Ireland. Why would that happen? What would be the thought process that would lead individuals to that change in voting intentions?
I’m sorry, it’s just not credible. You’ve got to get beyond slogans and assertions and try to apply some critical analysis.
WINNING CAPTAINS
They borrowed to build for war,expecting total victory.
The Nazis were reckless spenders of money they had no intention of paying back.
Eerily,there is a present-day scenario not far from home. And they too are supported by a mob of slavering right-wing loonies!
The windfarms are fine. So long as they continue to locate them in the sea beside Donald Trump’s golf coarse or in the less aesthetically appealing rural backwaters of Scotland.
SO…………Bottom line…………
If tomorrow was polling day, how would CQN vote ?
YES…………………………
Kilbowie Kelt
Neustadt-Braw.
The Exiled Tim.
DiCanioWasADream.
Vespacide.
Raspar Capac.
An Tearmann.
Saint Stivs.
Delaney’s Donkey.
NO.
John O’Neil.
verdantvic
DON’T KNOW.
Skyisalandfill.
Hamiltontim.
Philboy.
Kilbowie Kelt
12:11 on 11 October, 2013
SO…………Bottom line…………
If tomorrow was polling day, how would CQN vote ?
YES………………………… NO……………………….DON’T KNOW
Kilbowie Kelt………………….John O’Neil Skyisalandfill.
Hamiltontim. verdantvic Hamiltontim..
Neustadt-Braw.
The Exiled Tim.
DiCanioWasADream.
Turkeybhoy.
Saint Stiv’s.
Delaney’s Donkey.
Apologies to anybody missed or misrepresented.
…………………………………………………………
Someone had illegally appended my name which I have now removed.
https://twitter.com/corsica1968/status/388617345469411328
I think this sums up how a lot of us feel.
KILBOWIE KELT
Pretty clear which way I would vote. But as an ex-pat,I have no say in the matter.
Blinkin’ annoying,since I will eventually have to live with the result when I return home.
C’est la vie.
I’ll just blame you lot!
Genuine question for Irish CQNers:
What appetite is there within the modern day Dublin government for having the 6 counties back as part of a united Ireland? I’m thinking economics rather than the heart/history angle.
scottishleaf
12:08 on 11 October, 2013
‘Did Connolly call for Scotland to leave the UK? Perhaps not explicitly or overtly’
###
The fact is that Connolly never called for Scotland to leave the UK and it was never part of the programme of any of the organisations he was a member of of when he lived here.
Scotland’s position within the UK is entirely different to that of Ireland’s, and you don’t have to have the political ability of James Connolly to realise that.
Kilbowie Kelt
My lawyer will be in touch!
SO…………Bottom line…………
If tomorrow was polling day, how would CQN vote ?
YES…………………………
Kilbowie Kelt
Neustadt-Braw.
The Exiled Tim.
DiCanioWasADream.
Vespacide.
Raspar Capac.
An Tearmann.
Saint Stivs.
Delaney’s Donkey.
NO.
John O’Neil..
verdantvic
Dontbrattbakkinanger
DON’T KNOW.
Skyisalandfill.
Hamiltontim.
Philboy.