I’ve said for a while that very few people realise the enormity of what happened in Scottish football in 2012. Some thought there would be a three-year blip before ‘normality’ was restored. Until very recently prevailing perception is that the current ‘abnormal’ circumstances may last 10 years. The old normal isn’t coming back.
When I talked about how few people realised the permanent consequences of Rangers liquidation on the Scottish football to my brother, he was of the view that the penny wouldn’t drop until Newco were in their second season in the Premiership.
They had all the excuses in the world when they were in the lower leagues, and a genuinely good excuse during their first season in the top flight, but when things don’t improve in the second season, a retrenchment will start.
By then it will be evident that the legendary gap below Celtic is huge, that Newco are effectively cannon fodder, that their fans are a cash cow topping up the coffers of every club they visit (including Celtic), but that no matter what they pay for their season tickets, Newco will always be underfunded.
Season ticket sales at current levels are not sustainable to watch a team fail so miserably. Even this miserable team is not sustainable with the current business model. The retrenchment will be real and painful. Questions are now being asked about how they get themselves out of this mess (16 years too late). There will be no answer.
They will win the odd game against Celtic, and pick up a cup occasionally (if Ross County can do it anyone can), but Newco will only win the league if Celtic get their big move. Many football fans in Scotland will live the rest of their lives only seeing Celtic win the league. Just think of that for a moment. Buying your losers ticket each season will be a painful business. Some will find other things to occupy themselves with.
The real question that should be asked, is how sustainable is a Rangers club that’s as much chance of winning the title as St Johnstone? The answer will be evident by this time next season.
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MACJAY
Sorry mhate can’t do the link thing !
NatKnow
67.CSC
I am so sad, I bought a 150 Lumens torch.
SomethingsBurning
StoneRoses.CSC
NegAnon2 on 4th February 2017 12:37 pm
Sandman I noticed you advocating selling dembele and spending half of the so called 40m and keeping the other half? What were we supposed to keep it for? Do you have an RBS or Lloyds scarf at home?
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Where did you see that piece of revisionism, Keith?
My opinion on Moussa was a win-win either way for us, whether he stayed or moved. The money would help service Celtic’s debt and build a stronger squad, or we would still have an incredibly exciting player and valuable asset. There was discourse on here between me and a few others around the exact details of Celtic’s indebtedness and forthcoming liabilities as per recent accounts.
But there you go again – sophistry to suit your own bitterness.
Tut-tut, let’s try sticking to the truth, shall we?
Or can’t you formulate a decent retort without it reeking of pish?
PETEC on 4TH FEBRUARY 2017 12:56 PM
NatKnow
67.CSC
I am so sad, I bought a 150 Lumens torch.
SomethingsBurning
StoneRoses.CSC
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Should be easy to spot you on the telly then dude..! :-))
MACJAY:
I don’t think Paul created this forum as a battery farm for mindless sycophants to doff their caps and adulate his ego.
If I remember correctly, Paul created this place as a medium whereby concerned Celtic Supporters could counter the misrepresentations and downright lies published, or broadcast, in the main stream media.
I think he encouraged dissension, alternative thinking, thinking outside the box, as long as it was not woven in innuendo, lies, or malicious deceit. Rumour and weak hearsay was never encouraged though I can’t remember getting a paper copy of the hymn sheet.
Negannon is entitled to his say and if he doesn’t want to go into the sheep dip… then that is his choice.
Take a look at @CelticGoals’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/CelticGoals/status/827847880488714240?s=08
Big Chris giving it to the huns
When that beat kicks in.
Amazing. Celtic.
SANDMAN:
We don’t have any debt that couldn’t be paid off by the summer without any more money coming into the club above that which it is already due. We don’t need Dembele money to pay any debt whatsoever.
NatKnow, Last Row, Bro
:))
“Like Father Like Son”
WOWOWOW
Wowowow.
VFR
Thanks for the links good as they are I still prefer Bowie’s versions but the music and lyrics are superb.
Sorry for the late reply was offline early last night a wee bit to do this morning.
KEEP THE FAITH
Chris is like an attack dog from Christ.
Gooooood afternoon CQN
Michael (Green Oak) Rest in Peace, and May Perpetual Light Shine upon You
Thoughts and prayers for both you and all your Family
Now I listened to Jim “Blue &” White on talksport Thurs morning, as I drove to Manchester, his View and what he was trying to do – denegrate the current state of Scottish football, and the fact Celtic had no competition. He had Tony Cascarino and Des Kelly ? On the show with him, who challenged this assertion with one of them pointing out how Celtic had led the way in showing English clubs how to compete with Man City, one also commented on how if Celtic played in England they would very quickly be a top 6 club.
White went on to state Celtic and some other mob would never get to play in England as some other mobs fans reputation destroyed any chance through their actions in Manchester, and how that clubs fans could nit behave – but coming back to his point Scottish football was poor as Celtic had no competition – someone phoned in to point out the closeness of teams from 2nd to about 8th and how this more competitive than that super promoted league in England
Hail hail
The Truth is unbeatable.
Sandman I read it in your post when all the dembele stuff was kicking off. If you want to see revisionism then look back at what you said.
The club turned a profit, what debt ?
Lighter Lighter Raise them Higher
Canman –
Club debt: in the accounts – around 6-7 million secured, outstanding to Co-Op from a 19 million loan facility, and we also have a 10 million overdraft facility not used as I understand it.
The loan’s been running for a numbe rof years. That’s the debt we service.
Some of the bhoys listed it back on transfer deadline day when I wasn’t sure if we were still in for a full 19 million.
CANAMALAR:
We have a 19 million loan facility with the bank. We have it on very good terms. To keep the good terms active we must draw down at least one third of that 19 million. It is called a facility approved and extended to preferred and trusted customers. I think the terms expire subject to renegotiation in 2019. Debt is good to offset taxes, as long as you have the means to service the debt. At that point a new facility will be endorsed or Celtic will pay up and close the account. I think in layman’s terms I’ve got that just about right.
There are several accomplished accountants on here who are welcome to correct me if I am wrong.
Broonies 11
Red card? I didn’t think so.
Mo-T down to 10 men. Stephen Pearson comes on.
NEGANON2 on 4TH FEBRUARY 2017 11:48 AM
I agree with you to the extent that I find articles and debate about sevco tedious and rarely comment. To me the excitement was the period up to St. Hunus Day (a real Saint by the way (14th February)) 2012. Since then I have become bored with with people alluding to and predicting that new sevco will go by the way of RFC (IL). When the latter were on their knees that should have been it…Third Lanark. Regardless of why they have been allowed to limp along it should never ever have been allowed to be so. In my opinion they will be allowed to do so for ever more. To me sevco are just another team we have to play, nothing more. I will only craw if sevco are put to the sword and by that I mean Third Lanark.
On the point of we will downsize again I’m not sure what is meant. After MON’s era we downsized in what we spent, that coupled with the cheating on the amount spent by RFC (IL) and arguably to an extent the Managers we hired perhaps that could be construed as the perception of downsizing. In my opinion we spend within our means and have a Manager that can get a Team to play to their strengths. Timreaper made the point after Wdnesday’s game, 13 of the 14 Players used against Aberdeen were not Brendan’s signings. Yes Brendan will leave us at some stage and we will probably struggle for a few years to get the same quality Manager as Brendan, akin to Fergie leaving Man. Utd.
We are streaks ahead of the rest of the Scottish Clubs and I emphasise that rather than highlight one club as may have been the case prior to St. Hunus Day 2012. I believe Celtic will never lower their standards or ambition again, s that arrogance, I don’t know. That said Celtic need a new challenge, will we be allowed to join another League, I don’t know, in reality, no it will never happen in my opinion.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
CANAMALAR:
i think the facility was first negotiated with a view to getting the club’s cash flow flowing (if required) through the long, dark, lean, winter months. It was proactive business acumen.
Sandman,
If we have any debt we offset it against tax, reducing or eliminating the tax bill.
The club has turned a profit and should be paying tax, however that was the club’s accounts separated from the Plcs accounts which have still to be returned, the Plc may have overdraft facilities that will be used to offset tax and profit made by the club. Most recent accounts can be found here, surprised P67 did not take any time to review this latest set of accounts.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC223604/filing-history
Kitalba. Correct. The loan facility is on such good terms it would be madness for Celtic pay it all back. As you point out it’s also handy to depress profits and not pay tax. Celtic also have a substantial cash at bank balance. In recent years Celtic like to talk about net debt at bank. At the moment we have a net surplus even when offset against the loan.
But sandman enjoys supporting banks it seems so he was suggesting we just keep the 20m. Maybe to offset future bonuses for Peter.
Kit..,
So we are not servicing debt, we are maintaining a financial tool/facility
Gutless Arsenal.
from the bbc sports web site text updated on the live scottish game currently in play
“Motherwell 0-0 Rangers
Steven Thompson
Former Scotland striker on BBC Sportsound
Posted at 13:30
It was a wild lunge. On first sight, I thought it was a red card”
funny, i could have sworn it was hearts who were playing motherwell today
im obviously deluded
CANAMALAR:
I’m not really qualified to answer you canamalar but I would say a qualified ‘as a layman’ YES to your question. That would be my understanding of the facility.There are so many good accountants on here, they have the education and the right to be unequivocal.
Just clocked in and read Paul’s article now.
If Ross County can win a cup anyonr can.
Disrespectful in the extreme if I may say ao.
Ross County are a team representing the whole of the North Highlands of Scotland.
They’ve knocked Celtic of of national competitions twice in Celtic’s 60k capacity stadium.
You could have picked a better example Paul.
Alasdair MacLean,
A strange one I definitely agree.
Lennybhoy. It is clear I believe that during Sevcos so called journey through the leagues Celtic effectively downsized. They did just enough to keep winning the league. This so called strategy culminated in Ronnys appointment and rampant moneyball type players purchases and sales. Football was secondary throughout.
This was of course a betrayal of supporters who bought their season books in good faith ( very reminiscing of Fergus McCanns final year where he refused to allow Celtic to spend to protect his own investment.
The board were waiting on the return of the Hun. They were desperate for the bigot pound. Happy for the cheating. To resume.
When sevco beat us in the semi final the boards approach was laid bear. It was an utter humiliation for Celtic and the support was seriously pissed off. Every Celtic supporter I knew was walking away disgusted.
The board knew it. Paul knew it. All those careful years of managing your expectations had culminated in our humiliation.
The board knew they had to do something to reignite the support (having essentially lied to us for years and what’s worse attacked us and criminalised us at every turn).
Brendan was available and was a Celtic supporter. That was fortuitous. But to be fair to the board they played their hand well getting Brendan in. You see I despise the board because it’s just about money for them. They think the Celtic support are scum, but know they need us. But they aren’t daft and they have played us all like a fiddle.
We all had a once in a lifetime opportunity to end the racism. The board decided it was too good for business. They knew a large element of the supporter were on to them. So they discredited the Celtic support. And Paul spun is sevco stories. But no killer blow eh?
The downside for the board now is that Brendan is all powerful. If they screw up the relationship not only will Brendan leave but the support wil be in open revolt.
Despite Paul’s articles the support haven’t forgotten the actions and inactions of the board. Nor have they forgiven.
A McL- have to agree.
ALASDAIR MACLEAN:
In Milan they are saying if Celtic can win the European Cup, anybody can.
NEGANON2
“Despite Paul’s articles the support haven’t forgotten the actions and inactions of the board. Nor have they forgiven.”
You’re speaking for the support then, in which capacity??
3-0 Hearts. I wish they were playing Sevco again soon.
Starry i know from countless discussions with countless fellow supporters.
But if you don’t believe it’s true what makes you think it isn’t correct?
NEGANON2 on 4TH FEBRUARY 2017 1:48 PM
Pretty much I cannot disagree with what you post. As I posted regardless who can be proved to or who are believed to have allowed sevco to limp along they will be around forever. And as I have posted in my opinion I don’t think the Board will make the same mistake again. However, history would tend to suggest I would be in the minority.
Where I totally disagree with you is on what you posted…They think the Celtic support are scum…cannot accept that, yes the Board may well have taken us for granted but to state they think we are scum, I totally disagree a terrible think to state.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!