I remember getting annoyed at the grief Gordon Strachan took after David Fernandez inspired Dundee United to a draw at Celtic Park. It was disproportionate, despite the poor performance, and ignored the sporting reality that weaker teams can get it right and leave Celtic Park with a point. As well as a lot of credit for their efforts.
Positives first. Many things didn’t work for Celtic yesterday but James Forrest looked to be back to his best. There was only one occasion he didn’t get past the Killie fullback all day, and he recovered to dispossess two opponents and win the ball back.
For James, it’s all about fitness and confidence. Right now, he has both.
I looked at the clock: 3 minutes had gone, Jozo Simunovic was still on his feet. ‘We’re breaking new ground’, I thought. Kilmarnock defended their penalty area all day, so we were seldom troubled, but you and I have seen enough football to know that’s not the whole story. Jozo was immaculate, didn’t put a foot wrong, covered ground with pace and precision. Threw himself into tackles and won the ball.
The contrast with recent defensive performances could have scarcely been more marked.
Elsewhere it didn’t go so well. Tom Rogic and Nir Bitton were both inhibited. Stuart Armstrong prodded but seemed out of sync with his team-mates. Passes regularly found an opponent. From my seat, it looked like our movement and use of space was inefficient.
The last 30 minutes of the game saw Kilmarnock clear their lines and regroup under sustained pressure. During this period, I was confident the goal would come, it usually does. Maybe the extra dimension we hoped we’ve recruited in Carlton Cole, out ill yesterday, would have given our wing play more of a target.
Since writing on the subject on Friday night I’ve seen some of the sectarian abuse left on Facebook about our director, Ian Livingston, amid a diatribe against refugees and all sorts of people who are minorities in the UK.
Years ago I wrote that there are few values we can anchor the club to. Scotland is changing, as are peoples’ sense of identity, no more so than when it comes to religious identity. We can’t, nor should we, impose restrictions on who becomes a Celtic fan. Our demographic is largely left of centre, but a Lisbon Lion went on to become a Tory councillor, so there’s no political bar to supporting Celtic.
I also know an Ulster unionist, who for several years joined his family and friends as a Celtic season ticket holder. He was always made welcome, and didn’t find the celebration of Irish heritage at Celtic incompatible with his identity. As the generations pass, we’ll see more of this. People will care less about 20th century politics (not to mention 17th century) and your view on transubstantiation.
Our founding value is that we are open to all. You will find a welcome at Celtic irrespective of colour, race or religion, you don’t need to care about Scotland or Ireland, we have Poles, English, Norwegians, Americans, Aussies and many more. Few of them had an Irish grannie.
These values are under threat across Europe. We should take every opportunity to reinforce them.
I took some advice on whether to out those behind the racist abuse yesterday, but I’m glad Ian Livingston did so direct on the Affiliation site (and apologies for the direct quote appearing on a CQN article, I pulled it as soon as I saw it).
I was also challenged over the weekend for criticising the chairman’s right to use any available platform to call out racism. I don’t feel qualified to say that’s not allowed.
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A slave wage economy run by Lord Livingstone and his Millionaire political chums.
And we are supposed to ignore the repercussions of their ideological assault on working and poor people.
Er….I don’t think so.
HH
Prime among the Tory 50,000 club is Celtic chief shareholder Dermot Desmond, above, whose British company Venson gave 50,000 last year. Desmond is an Irish citizen and is not on the UK voters roll and, therefore, barred from donating in person. His company, however, has no such trouble
Is there any actual proof yet that it was a Celtic supporter who posted that pish ? Or are we just going to accept that we’re an inherently racist anti-jew, anti protestant, anti muslim, pro Irish all Catholic support ? Iv’e probably left a few out but that’s what the’yd have us believe. My main concern is that we constantly sell our best players and dont bring through our youngsters to fulfill the talent they appear to have. Don’t want to hear about Tierney suffering from cramp last season and we have to closet him, he’s a teenager ffs, he’ll never be fitter than he is now. Too many players loaned out to crap teams (and returning injured) in the current set up I’d like to see our young players getting more of an opportunity, whats to lose ?
Twentyfirstofmay..,
Everything he said, hail hail
tonydonnelly67 on 23rd November 2015 2:06 pm
………. The Celtic Trust are the enemy within IMO.
Maggie Thatchers’ old Divide & Rule working as well as ever a generation later…eh?
This used to be an informative forum about the political economy of football in Scotland and Europe. There was plenty of sourced factual evidence to back opinion, and the opinion was normally informed, considered, articulate, and most importantly, conveyed respectfully.
With everything that has come to pass since then, since all those past opinions about Scottish Football and the MSM that reported it have been proven correct… What has happened to this Forum?]
Guess it got too big for its own good.
Roll On The Future?
Herbo 352pm
I’ve heard that right wing Celtic Tory fanzine is a right riveting read. Apparently each issue they print the words of their favourite Celtic-Tory United songs-
Boys of the Bullingdon Brigade; (seemingly the opening line is “Oh Farage why are you so sad, on this bright Easter morn”);
Hail hail the cuts are here;
The fields of thatcher-rye;
Charlie Whelan’s sisters pants;
Let the people eat cake;
David Cameron Balon d’or;
You’ll never work from home(apparently a protest at these left wing flexible working laws that the chaps at the CBI hate);
Here’s to you Cecil parkinson, Celtic loves you more than you will know;
Dermot Desmond is the king of kings;
And sung especially to Sevco fans-
We hate the Celtic Trust more than you
PJBHOYNYC on 23RD NOVEMBER 2015 4:20 PM
I think it is just a consequence of Old Firm protectionism
HH
The Glorious Balance Sheet
Don’t know wether to laugh or greet.
Was it not the Daily Record which maliciously revealed how ‘Celtic director’ Lord Livingstone of Parkhead voted in the hope that Some Celtic fans would take the bait to rail against our club in public?
Wooft, I wonder if that nasty wee businessman has come out from behind his big leather sofa, after his almost Ceaucescu like moment at the AGM.
Low profile usually works, but id keep my trainers handy just in case:)
HH
http://linkis.com/www.theguardian.com/E8Q29
‘Conscious cruelty’: Ken Loach’s shock at benefit sanctions and food banks
‘Hunger is being used as a weapon,’ says veteran director, calling for public rage over situation he says is worse than when he made Cathy Come Home in 1966
100 % Agree with Ken Loach there should be public outrage
Russian amature marathon runners being banned from Turkish marathon after they finish running, the soviet socialists are ruining sport
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 23rd November 2015 4:23 pm – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/saturday-agm-afterblow/comment-page-5/#comments
I think that is part of it too…
HH
My friends in Celtic,
The late Paul McBride ( RIP ) was a Celtic supporter who represented Celtic on a number of Legal matters. He also issued statements on behalf of the club.
Do any of us really believe he did a better or worse job at that, or was a better Celtic supporter when he was a Labour Man or a Tory. ?
WILLIAMF @ 12.51 hrs. A thought- provoking post.
HH to all Celtic supporters.
LIONROARS67
Ken Loache is spot on.
Its like the modern version of the Workhouse.
These tories really hate the poor and unfortunate, they always have, its their entrenched sense of entitlement and superiority….aped by their troll like sycophants at ipox.
Lord Livingstone has collective responsibility.
HH
……..Bams To The Slaughter!
……..know your place!
Quite remarkable how people will cling to the smallest things in a crisis. Incidentally the chairman managed to invent this crisis all on his own. That there have been some racist remarks aimed at Livingstone is no surprise. There are maniacs everywhere. They are a disgrace – no doubt and no question. None.
However its quite another thing for the chairman of celtic to take the fact that there were a few of these posts and turn it firstly into a defence of Livingston’s stance and to use it to deflect from the debate at the agm. In doing so he is effectively saying that the racism was widespread (and therefore discrediting all who signed the petition) and he is insuinuiting those who signed the petition did because they are racists.
It was at its very least a very stupid thing today, but given that the board are suppossed to be very clever chaps, then at its worst it was simply a cynical ploy to call all dissenting celtic fans racist.
All he needed to say was that he recognised the discomfort felt by some celtic fans but that Livingstone had the right to his own views and opinions. We might not have liked it but it is unarguable.
Instead he went down the well trodden path by this board of attacking the support.
It is hilarious to say the least that they are now perfectly willing to speak out and give us statements etc – albiet the condescending statement last night was horrific in terms of its obvious disdain.
If the Celtic Board were worried that the supporters had, ahem, misinterpreted bankier’s outburst, then surely the onus is on the Board to speak to its supporters and not the other way round.
And now of course we have Paul backing up the Board (no surprise). No one. NO ONE. Is saying anything about the racist posts was correct. But that wasnt what Bankier was asked. He was asked about Livingston’s position. And this whole row was orchastrated as a smokescreen to that debate. Now Paul is putting up that smokescreen as well.
If the celtic board was so concerned about the racist posts why not report them to the police? The AGM was the wrong place to tackle it and to do so as a smokescreen is simply disgusting.
What an absolute shambles of a mess. Well done Celtic Board! You have once again divided the support. Perhaps after all thats the intention ahead of quietly burying EBTs etc.
Shameful from CQN and shameful from the board.
But hey. What else do I expect these days?
Anybody that has the power to impose injustice….should be opposed.
It is as simple as that.
These people should be held accountable for their actions, like anybody else.
Being a Lord does not exempt you from responsibility for your actions.
It is not the nineteenth century ffs.
HH
Paul67
Disagree with your view of the team. I don’t see any progress. Yes, Forrest was excellent, but shouldn’t beating a Kilmarnockly-priced fullback be a minimum requirement for a Celtic winger? Armstrong and Mackay-Steven are mired in mediocrity, Commons (our main creative force) is ‘injured’, and Anthony Stokes has been frozen out because, well, the rest of the team are streets ahead of him, aren’t they? And finally, Simunovic had a good game at home v Killie – that this is worthy of comment speaks for itself. :-<
On Livingstone, you appear to be suggesting that Tories are real humans, not blank screens onto which some can project their class hatred. Careful now.
The Green Man on 23rd November 2015 4:40 pm
The Celtic board might want ask Lord Livingston who will buy the season ticket in the future
https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/next-generation-being-condemned-worse-set-circumstances-which-live-work-and-raise-family
Some ask was it Celtic supporters who posted these remarks of social media, it may not have been. I know personally of an incident which may have been recognised as Celtic supporters carrying out a vandalism. So I would not be surprised if it was couple of trolls.
But I was also at Celtic Park when Mark Walters played his first game against Celtic and it was certainly Celtic supporters throwing bananas on the park.
I agree the persons who posted these racist comments can be identified just report them Celtic let’s see what turns up.
Ayrshire is Green and White
Off-field matters are mildly shambolic.
On-field matters are chaotic. Sadly, our club is stagnating rapidly.
That’s all from me.
doubt that,
sadly………
Up_Over_Goal,
Stokesy is being frozen out like Bobo was, remember he was late returning from a visit home and the outrage from the powers that be, well that’s why Stokesy is being frozen out.
They don’t want Rebs thay want compliant automatons who comply with exactly what is demanded, forget individuality or talent, no one wants that, follow the system and forget the rest.
Exactly what you’d expect from an overbearing regime.
Now what was it Jock Stein said, about the inter milan team and how Celtic should never comply with such a policy ?
LIONROARS67
Tax credits are just the beginning….next it will be council tenancies, that’s a big target….profits for their investor pals.
Bigotry, Homelessness, its all the same to them…anything that will satisfy their need to hurt the poor and unfortunate.
Nothing is sacred, except their corruption.
HH
Canamalar love to see your evidence for what you have just written. Or have you gone down Neganon2’s line where his opinion is hard fact. Produce it and I’m right with you. H H Hebcelt
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1333479-mike-ashley-blocks-bid-to-remove-his-rangers-power-after-court-win/
BRTH 3.07
Let’s have non of that sound business analysis type thinking here.
It would be interesting to see what led to Bankier’s statement and who thought it was a good idea.
I suspect nothing and no one.
The only point I would pick up on was when I saw the “Livingstone Out”bandwagon begin to roll I’m sure I read in the week before it at least, a statement of his position that ties in with the one put out.
When I read it I thought that sounds reasonable, at least I understand where he is coming from.
Now perhaps it was not promulgated properly and perhaps because it failed to stop the bandwagon rolling it was not repeated more publicly, but if it was aired and ignored then perhaps all the blame does not lie on one side?
My view is that both sides of the argument have come out of it badly and that the adversarial approach to communicating between the club and the support serves neither.
I’m not interested in who is to blame. I’m only interested in does it work?
Clearly whatever it is, it doesn’t work.
Now if there was some sound business analysis on why that is so we might start to get somewhere.
I’ve never voted Tory but have absolutely no problem with Tories on the board. As long as they have Celtic’s interests at heart and bring expertise to the club.
Those that do are being just a tad childish and probably need to get out more, frankly.
You’d be surprised how many sons and daughters of Irish – and other – immigrants identify with values traditionally associated with conservatism: self-reliance, aspiration, frugality. Prioritising these things does not make them any less of a Celtic fan – just different to the stereotypes of Canamalar’s imagination.
Incidentally, Brother Walfrid’s actions in setting up Celtic were actually profoundly conservative: a charity established by a powerful church ministering to a specific need in a specific area of the city is Victorian Values in action.
Canamalar
I’ve always gone with a ‘what works’ approach. There’s nothing wrong with discipline, and Stokes had a few fallings-out with Neil Lennon, though the latter always seemed to get the best out of him, eventually.
I strongly doubt that Strachan or indeed Deila would take orders from the board concerning who to select and who to leave out of the team.
The more obvous explanation is that Ronny has a set way of playing, and you either conform to that (Bitton) or you don’t (Stokes).
Give me dramatic improvement (and the humble pie to go with it) or hilarious decline over this slow puncture.
Hebcelt,
Just phoned Stokesy, told me he can’t speak because of is confidentiality clause. So you must be right.
Auldheid,
“I’m not interested in who is to blame. I’m only interested in does it work? ”
That’s the sort of attitude that suits war criminals.
Italiabhoy,
Victorian principals as you put it were to put them in the poor house, try reading some Dickens.
At the time of Brother Walfrid socialism as an alternative was just a book, jot long after that however it became a reality and was very quickly adopted by Celtic supporters hence the clubs mission statement became less relevant as the state took over the responsibilities charities were normally associated with. However since then people like yourself regardless of your denial, have argued that we return to those preWalfrid days because anything is better than socialism, better to watch millions starve to death than allow them to choose their own form of governance.
Viva capitalism.
Stokes wasn’t that good.
He could score goals domestically but we get plenty from Leigh nowadays.
He was never any good for us in Europe.
ITALIABHOY
I wouldn’t say the demographic of Celtic supporters is the problem, we are a diverse club with supporters drawn from every community, and long may that continue.
However, right -wing ideology goes totally against the stated ethos of the club.
And it is right for supporters to question the political motivations of a Celtic board member.
The days of deference are long gone.
There should be no Lords at Celtic Park.
HH
BRTH
It was on a blog dated 30 th Oct
http://tirnaog09.blogspot.com.es/2015/10/open-to-all.html?m=1
Where Livingstone stated his case.
It apparently had no effect.
Canamalar
Funny you should mention war criminals
Weren’t you the one who was delighted that Putin was dropping bombs in Syria on behalf of Assad?
timaloy29
Stokes wasn’t that great in Europe, but he was more effective than Griffiths.
Up_Over_Goal
“I strongly doubt that Strachan or indeed Deila would take orders from the board concerning who to select and who to leave out of the team.”
That’s shite and you know it is, Bobo was not picked because WGS thought he had better defenders, away and bile yer heed.