Negatives out of the way first: we’re not good enough, this is a low achievement by a Celtic team who have reached a group stage. There’s no disputing that, but amid the predictable ‘Throw them all overboard’ reaction, I know I’m not the only one who is not panicking right now.
When I heard we were playing three wingers (Forrest, Mackay-Steven, McGregor) I anticipated a thrashing. Gordon Strachan would often drop all his craft players for the more industrial types in European football, with good reason.
As it turned out, we had the majority of the chances, and all the better ones, as we spent most of the second half pushing for a winner.
No arguments with Leigh Griffiths assessment immediately after the game, that was his worst performance in a Celtic shirt. Nor is there dispute in Ronny Deila’s retort that he’s scored plenty for us before and will continue to do so. Even the greats have days like that, including the Swede.
The midfield formation was fluid throughout the game. Tom Rogic initially played as a defensive mid, before moving in front of Stuart Armstrong (who moved everywhere) and Callum McGregor. The defensive mid role Rogic played isn’t one carried out by either Nir Bitton or Scott Brown. We’ve not had anyone in this role since the departure of Victor Wanyama (still pining) and it remains a large gap in the offering.
Lesson: we need a defensive mid. The deep lying playmaker + box-to-box player isn’t robust enough in Europe.
Callum McGregor carried possibly the lowest expectations of everyone in a Celtic shirt but he put in an excellent shift. His goal was outstanding, losing possession immediately before Ajax equalised took the shine off things a bit, but it was still a strong performance.
Do you know the last time McGregor started a game? October 2014. Under those circumstances that was a remarkable performance.
General consensus is that the defence played well. Kieran Tierney is as good a left back as we’ve had in years. Had he not gone off with an injury the result might have been different.
Jozo Simunovic is clearly out best central defender. I know I’m not setting the bar too high with that statement, but he’s a move in the right direction. He’s also young, still working on his fitness, and will continue to progress.
A week ago Celtic Underground’s Harry Brady suggested Dedryck Boyata plays better alongside Simunovic than without him. Dedryck still has a long way to go but the evidence suggests partnered with a game-reader like Jozo has helped him. Let’s see where he is at the end of the season.
And Craig Gordon? He could have stopped both Ajax goals. That’s not to say he was to blame for either, he wasn’t, but these were the kind of stops he was making in last season’s Europa League.
Ronny is 18 months into the job and has contributed to the situation we find ourselves in (tactical mistakes in both Molde games), but this is not the time to lurch off plan. We’re not good enough largely because we’ve recruited too few players since 2012 who have improved the team.
We need to continue to develop players like Tierney and we need to recruit better. Get this right in January, and again in the summer, and we will be vastly better. The alternative is likely to be to pick up a best from the SPFL pool, or someone from the English circuit who cannot get a better paid gig. And then it would take until November 2017 before we could assess them properly.
Return of the Bampots
Tonight, for one night onlyt, Phil Mac Giolla Bháin, John Fallon and myself are in the Hibs Club, Carfin, for a Q&A in aid of Mary’s Meals, with Phil Agnew hosting. The event starts at 7:30, £5 entry, can pay at the door.
Looking forward to seeing you there.
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TONYDONNELLY67 on 28TH NOVEMBER 2015 2:00 PM
TURKEYBHOY on 28TH NOVEMBER 2015 1:38 PM
Tony,ignore that clown.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/some-perspective/comment-page-22/#comment-2727584
Lol, what one? They’r all over the site, have been since the final whistle on Thursday, :))
Think you know my feelings on Neganon2 by now.
Turkeybhoy,
you do know Celtic PLC made a substantial loss in the last fiscal year ?
and for that the CEO took a bonus payout.
Whats well run about that ?
The company I work for made a loss for the first time in 7 years.
Heads at the top rolled.
Thats how real businesses work.
Our PLC board are self serving, cosy club, in it together tories.
Why would any celtic supporter stand and clap that ?
The Fruit Fly and ALS Research
http://wp.me/p6DYht-pM
No One Walks Alone
Game tomorrow in doubt, 7.30am pitch inspection.
for a moment, lets judge our CEO purely on business performance.
Turnover down in 3 years from 75m to 61m to 51m ………. what is the forcast for this year, will we go below that ?
make a loss of 4m last year ……… if no one wants to buy our increasingly poorer players, we make a loss again,
how long does the failing ceo get.
kept it nice and sinple for yeese.
We are all acutely aware of the difficulties we have with our existing squad but we are imagining things if we believe the promotion of Fisher, Henderson, O’Connell etc; will make things better or no worse.
There is a huge jump from Development squad to the Celtic first team, bad, even, as some of the fans think that level is. It is easier to be tested and developed in a lower SPFL club or even a Scottish Championship or League One & Two in England than it is in the SPFL Top 3. Look at the difficulty Aberdeen have had in giving game time to the very promising Cammy Smith and Lawrence Shankland (now on loan and not thriving particularly).
We thought Darnell Fisher looked very promising- so much so that we did not miss Lustig or Matthews when he deputised. Yet he has gone to St. Johnstone and managed only 5 games this season so far. Liam Henderson has fared a little better at the lower level with Hibs, getting 13 games and 3 goals, but is now out for a spell getting blood tests as he is “fatigued”. Eoghan O’Connell went to Oldham and got a bad injury after 1 game and returned for treatment- jury is out on his progress. Younger loanee, Stuart Findlay, has managed 8 games for Killie and 15 for Dumbarton last year (he is progressing nicely but he has just turned 20 and is ready for testing at a Celtic level). Calum Watters has only had 5 games with Dumbarton and Michael Duffy has had 9 games at Alloa without scoring.
Some go on loan and thrive (Calum McGregor) and still struggle with the jump to Celtic. Some go on loan and do fine, Jackson Irvine, without being considered to have done well enough. Others that were touted as future superstars such as Denny Johnstone have proved to be close but not close enough.
So far, Kieran Tierney looks the real deal, our first breakthrough player since James Forrest. However, even there, we need to proceed cautiously. I remember Paul Caddis being a very impressive right back for us, but being let go (He continues to be a very good Birmingham player with 127 appearances but was he/is he good enough for Celtic- who knows?).
These guys need competitive games which other Scottish development squads rarely give them. From 17 to 21, they need experience playing against cynical senior pros as part of their learning curve. They need to be good enough to get past Israeli, Norwegian, Scottish and Honduran internationalists to break through into our first team.
Anyone else think it’s weird that the Celtic support are fragmenting at a time when we should be coming together to ensure the cheats and their facilitators are brought to heel ?
I haven’t read one initiaitive heard one supporter’s organisation do something, anything to indicate so.
That includes the CSA, CT, CQN AND CFC.
The inaction of organisations ensures we are weak and like a punch bag at times. As a consequence we lack any impact and are easily distracted.
In fairness, some of the fans groups are focussed on certain issues .
Just my opinion of course.
TBB from an hour ago.
I am pretty sure I could make a valid case for the example you gave being helpful towards success in Highers.
Didn`t the great Hungarian team regularly play very weak opposition in Friendlies in order to become used to a comfortable flow in their game? Likewise, golfers play the same shot perhaps a hundred times on the range in preparation for the real thing even though the practice is much easier than the same shot in competition.
Overall, I agree that a much more competitive League than the SPFL top division would be better for Celtic`s CL preparation but I strongly believe that, as it stands, it can still be used fruitfully to prepare us for tougher games.
JJ
I know some on here are not to enamoured with the johnjames site, make of it what you will…
King’s Bluff
by sitonfence
There is a perfect paradox at the heart of Gary Ralston’s piece in the red top rag that is best viewed online. Mr Ralston has now disclosed that the seven year notice period can only be initiated once the £5m debt has been repaid. That’s yet another breach of a High Court order. The stupidity of this board never fails to amaze me.
There appears to be some confusion in those who take the time to contribute on this site. First of all there was no interest on the £5m loan as specified in the RNS to LSE AIM. No-one, not even Phil Mac, has access to any penalty clauses that may exist within the agreement. The current board are in breach of the agreement. Ashley gave the board one final chance to repay their debt in June. This eleventh hour offer of £5m will fail. King and his board know that they are in default and know that the IP has gone. This is a desperate attempt to get back to the negotiation table.
It’s a very clever PR exercise, but it fell over when King added Murray’s name to the list of the £5m saviours. Mr Murray has been an abject failure as Vice Chairman. He has delivered nothing and his botched attempts to negotiate with Ashley has led to the current impasse. He is a failed entrepreneur with no appreciable wealth. King as everyone knows, has not risked one South African Rand of his own money to acquire shares. The £1.5m loan attributed to King was a barefaced lie by Paul Murray. In April, if not before, the source of the £1.5m will be revealed in court. King and Murray’s lies to shareholders will be exposed.
Mike Ashley will not rest until King and Murray are removed from office. He has unleashed a tsunami of legal action. The board are drowning, hence their desperate attempt to construct a £5m life boat. The opportunity for negotiation ended in June. Going forward, everything will be decided in court.
King contradicted himself at the AGM. In one breath he said ‘once we raise the £5m’ and in another that ‘it was in place.’ There is no £5m. It is not in our Metro Bank account. King is bluffing and when negotiations break down he will have given the shareholders a sense of his acting in good faith, with Mr Ashley not prepared to compromise. It’s a clever bluff. The last throw of the dice prior to King’s contempt of court hearing.
James Blair, who has no training in English tort, expressed the opinion of someone who would be perceived as a layman in The High Courts of Justice. If the Chairman, David Somers, was authorized by his Chief Executive, Derek Llambias, and Financial Director Barry Leach, then that’s the end of the argument. If challenged in court they will affirm their assent. Sandy Easdale, who was Managing Director of The Rangers Football Club plc, was required to sign as the floating charge has an impact on TRFC plc. If this is the best argument that they have to breach the injunction, they will fail.
King has the SMSM eating out of their hands. I wonder who will be first to break the story of Ashley’s intransigence to King’s ‘good faith.’
sitonfence
Turkeybhoy 2.07pm
Not strictly the case that Europe is being installed as the benchmark as you put it.
We expect to win the SPFL. And why not when the main opposition is drawn from sub-prime local players and the lower reaches of English football (and in fact increasingly non-league English football in the case of Inverness)
Winning domestic competition in that context tells us nothing about how we are performing relative to our available resources.
I do not know a Celtic fan who expects to win the CL or EL.
The least to be expected in Europe given our resources and the number of internationalists in our squad is to prevail in the CL qualifiers more often than not against teams from Iceland Sweden Norway Azerbaijan Slovenia etc
Once in the CL groups realistically nowadays every point is a bonus. Look at the record of the 5 teams coming into the CL through the champions of diddy countries route over the last 5 years; finishing bottom of the group is to be expected, 3rd a minor miracle and 2nd a major miracle which we achieved as a one-off in 2012/13.
Fail to qualify for the CL and I think it’s reasonable to expect to qualify for the EL last 32. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
Our EL group was slightly warped this year by the presence of fenerbahce in pot 3; they were only there because they had been banned for 2 years for match fixing so had an artificially lowered co-efficient.
In that respect we were unlucky to draw them as a pot 3 team.
But that doesn’t explain our poor performances v molde.
To be confirmed as bottom of that EL group with a full round of matches to go is very very poor indeed.
If final matches go as I expect we could finish 6 points adrift of the team closest to us in the group. The group whipping boys.
Europe in the 80s and 90s was a different kettle of fish. Cup tie football with regular draws against big hitters in the early rounds means that comparing our European adventures of the 1980s and 1990s we are not comparing like with like.
In the 1980s we were put of Europe by atletico Madrid, real sociedad (champions of Spain that year), dynamo Kiev, werder Bremen, Dortmund, Real Madrid, Nottingham forest and cheated by rapid Vienna.
A far more stellar cast than Legia Warsaw, Maribor, molde, Malmo et al
The same could be said of the 90s with the likes of sporting Lisbon, Dortmund, Lyon, hamburg, Liverpool doing for us (Neufchâtel and Zurich I grant you were poor)
In that context I think picking the bones of our misadventures in Europe is fair game
Incidentally early pitch inspection at Inverness 7.30am tomorrow morning
BCW
Perhaps they are all waiting until after December the 2nd .
JJ
BCW,
Fair point, even Res 12 has a unifying effect, well except for those who claim to speak for unity, then they spend all their time trying to drive divide while claiming to be in support of the board, who are currently working with Res 12, is it just stupidity that drives some agenda.
Jobo, apologies nipped oot as soon as I posted the weather, and only back in 5 mins.
Only go and watch the Green and White hoops Bhud, no interest in amy other teams or games :-)
Thanks to there for the reasoned responses
Corkcelt, I’m sure BCW was referring to Janko as the signing and not Blackett
Sandman, I do not know Neganon or Latchford, but I believe they hold extremely high positions in huge businesses dwarfing Celtic, not football clubs mind. They are posting through business understanding and knowledge of such with Celtic in their heart
I am no high flyer, but hold a senior position in business, managing a budget in excess of £20m, with an understanding of how a board works
I would not employ an Amatuer to manage/coach A club of our size, look at imbalance in our squad, who’s fault ?
I would not accept the regularlarity of our scouting failures
I personally believe we have poorly managed the last 2 seasons costing us potentially significant revenue, if we had corrected our strategy with an experienced manager
I don’t have the answers, but will express my views
Afternoon Timland from a warm and sunny hun free mountain valley.
TD67
See your aim of trying to disrupt the blog, well done, you are doing as grand job.
Must admit, you are doing a fine job for an idiot.
In your eyes anyone who dares to crit the suits are members of the CT and have an agenda, good god, even the huns are no that stupid.
Jungle Jim
Yeah I get that.
But it was the lack of preperation I was referring to.
Have to go now.All the best to those who are going to watch Ek and genuine admiration and all the best to those involved in Res 12.
Cheerio for now.
JJ
Turkeybhoy on 28th November 2015 2:07 pm
This Europe is the benchmark,crap,only being brought out recently by our enemies to batter the club.The same mob who give us the “Same team”guff,yet you swallow it,and regurgitate it on here.
*absolutely, we’ve no been a top European side since 1974. Forget one off games like Sporting Lisbon, Manure, Barca etc. and ffs lets stop salivating on Seville….we lost.
That was no different from Milan ’70 which was one of the best days oot I’ve ever had as a Celtic supporter, bar the score that is, the scenes in the square in Milan were amazing, even the Feyenoord fans were great.
BTW I’m not that convinced it was just Ajax fans that caused the bother on Thursday night “running through the barras fae London road”, no visible police presence either…hmmm something smells.
We are what we are right now, a very good Scottish club and if the treble is the benchmark so be it. The League Cup was the benchmark in 1994 and we lost, the SC in 95 and if it hadn’t been for the much maligned Peter Pointer we could have lost that tae.
Of all the reactions to Thursday’s result, perhaps the most depressing has been a number of posters opining that European Competition doesn’t really matter all that much. A clear indication that downsizing at CP has not been confined to on the park, but has now impacted on supporters’ ambitions.
Cowiebhoy
Describing Ronny Deila as an amateur undercuts the credibilty of your argument. Hyperbole, unless it is used for humorous purposes, lends an aroma of desperation to the point advanced.
Incidentally, one of your candidates for replacing RD was, apart from one year at Carlisle, an asst. manager or caretaker (in one of those posts, he stepped down to be replaced by Tony Mowbray) until 2008 so he has only 7 years as a manager (RD has managed since 2005 and was at Stromgodset by 2008). Pearson was replaced at Southampton after 3 months, had two relatively successful years with Leicester but did not achieve Mowbray’s level of winning promotion to the Premiership before resigning under Board pressure, led Hull to 11th place in the Championship before resigning in the November of his 2nd season. He had a second spell at Leicester taking over when they were 12th in the Championship and finishing 9th, scraped into the play-offs in his second season before getting knocked out of the play offs in the first round. In his third season, he reached the dizzy heights of Tony Mowbray by achieving promotion to the Premiership. His Leicester team were bottom of the Premiership at Christmas but he avoided Mowbray’s feat of going straight back down again, finishing 14th in the league before being sacked.
Experience he has but no Euro experience. His record though is very similar to Tony Mowbray’s
I actually hate Ajax and their lowlife followers.
No apologies.
HH.
Give us another chance – sure John, just not here you buscuit
Big Cup Winners
Correct sir.
Priority no1 for us should be to clean up our corrupt game and ensure justice is done on RFC cheating .
Priority no.2 How did we rid ourself of our board. A board that does not match the imagination or ambition of our support.
Both require us to be united.
HH
Canamalar on 28th November 2015 2:02 pm
Tontine…,
Well that’s ok then, there can not be an alternative because you and people who think like you, have bought into the lies that there are none and can be no alternatives, only zero hour contracts can help people make a living ffs, listen to yourself.
*that’s not what I’m saying, zero hour contracts and minimum wages are scandalous, but they’re here with us.
I live in what is probably the wealthiest country in the world, that is when natural resources are taken into consideration. Food kitchens in abundance here, effin scandalous
We have had 9 years of tory/tea party misrule which has been replaced by hopefully a caring government.
Only then will we see prosperity return to those who need it most.
I have 5 pensions, 2 government, 2 private and a wee offering from Gateshead. I’m one of the lucky ones, but I didnae get them for nothing.
I was in senior management in the largest facility of its kind in the country, I saw minimum wage and zero hour employees on a regular basis, they were employed by companies on contract to the main management group.
Nobody cared as long as their KPI’s were met and their bonuses were secure. that’s the way it is in the modern greedy world, did I like it, no but I had a family to take care of.
I’m led to believe that there’s an old Italian say ‘when my stomach is full then I don’t know your hungry”.
Says it all for me.
We have learned the hard way – really Armstrong? U can’t even take a decent set piece
16 Roads.
No way mate our cops would be somewhere filming the assailants to apprehend them later, budgets permitting of course.
They have already convicted one hooligan and fined him heavily (£500) for police assault and possession of a class A drug. No doubt he’d have to buy a new Easyjet ticket too. This sort of deterrent will ensure hooligans will be fearful of coming to Glasgow.
The cowards who attacked the pubs need to watch out as Scotland’s finest have identified that the assailants were dressed in black and will be scouring the streets of Glasgow.
The Ajax hooligans like many of these cowards have no cajones, attacking when tooled up and in groups. They want to fight go in the ring with someone wanting to fight.
Delias promise – to leave now please
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This bottle, an Islay malt is believed to be only 3 of this cask collection now left, so the current value of this bottle is around £200
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HH and good luck
CRC
Tony
You must realise that the only thing you regularly, repeatedly and consistently “show up” is yourself ?
TGBS
“Europe in the 80s and 90s was a different kettle of fish. Cup tie football with regular draws against big hitters in the early rounds means that comparing our European adventures of the 1980s and 1990s we are not comparing like with like.
In the 1980s we were put of Europe by atletico Madrid, real sociedad (champions of Spain that year), dynamo Kiev, werder Bremen, Dortmund, Real Madrid, Nottingham forest and cheated by rapid Vienna.
A far more stellar cast than Legia Warsaw, Maribor, molde, Malmo et al
The same could be said of the 90s with the likes of sporting Lisbon, Dortmund, Lyon, hamburg, Liverpool doing for us (Neufchâtel and Zurich I grant you were poor)”
A pretty selective filtering of our 80s and 90s achievements.
In the 80s we lost to Politehnica Timisoara and Partizan Belgrade too- plus I’d disagree with placing Werder Bremen as a stellar team while relegating Legia to less than stellar status. In the late 70s we lost to Sachsenring Zwickau, Wisla Krakow and Wacker Innsbruck as well as failing to get any Euro experience in 78/79.
In the 90s we lost to the two poor Swiss teams you mention as well as failing to make it in 90/91 and 94/95 when we were not even good enough to get beat by foreign diddies because we had lost out to Scottish diddies.
I accept the point you make about knock out Cups as opposed to reformed leagues but the flip-side of that defence is you don’t get to denigrate by quoting 8,9, or 10 games without a win in Europe for RD because only getting to group Stages by winning qualifying ties (we last won 7 games ago against Malmo but that, apparently, does not count) do you get the opportunity to fail to win.
Those 80s and 90s teams that never qualified did less well than RD’s worst Euro Season which is 2015/16- this one
It may be the painkillers talking but I’m beginning to think that we are now two clubs – the club which includes the green brigade taking parcels to a food bank and the club which has made us a feeder club and employed goodness knows how many average players over the last 5 years. Armageddon hasn’t happened but in the aftermath of the cheating on a monumental scale we are left trying to find what we are.
BIG-CUP-WINNERS
And I REALY give a hard luck what you think, jog on ya rocket.
Virgil scores for City – found his level
PS… Sorry for all the fecking :))
Right , things to do, never let the bar stewards get you down.
Lurking Huns and Gintys Storm troopers GIRFUYs
Tontine…,
No need for the Italian sayings we have plenty, and, I’m alright jack pull up the ladder, does not excuse anyone from paying lip service or making justifications on the grounds that most people were too afraid of loosing their jobs, KPI’s and bonus indeed. rather than condemning it, especially at a club like no other, more than a club,
Claims sounding very hollow and fast becoming a lie.
Tony
If you don’t care, why retort ? Why post your opinion on things ?
“Rocket” haha was that “said” with a wee nasally whine ?
Nobody watching the tennis?
The Murray hibee brothers are on… a good match.
Surely you are cowiebhoy, had a look for you on Thursday, no joy. HH
BWC – Never walked about a town centre for an hour and not seen a single police officer, anywhere in the world. Particularly considering that there were mobs of thugs marauding about the place on the day of a big football game.
Belfast is obviously exceptional, however there is always cops in town even in normal times to try and combat ordinary criminals like shoplifting.
It just doesn’t add up.
HH.