So much happened yesterday, I’ll be as brief as possible:
Newco Rangers sent their counsel to the Court of Session to protest Charles Green’s contract with the club, stating it should pay legal expenses, now crystallising ahead of his forthcoming criminal trial.
In opposing Green, James Wolffe QC raised various objections, but as is often the case when people speak on behalf of Newco, included an arbitrary insistence that Newco operated the same club as the now liquidated Rangers.
Green’s QC, Jonathan Brown, put his pit boots on before stating his client’s case, but tantalisingly, before lunch informed the court that he would return to the same club/new club debate later. And didn’t he. Brown explained that Sevco Scotland purchased the assets of Rangers, not the club itself, with poetic prose adding:
“The team are paid by Sevco, plat at a ground owned by Secvo, are trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco and fans buy tickets from Sevco. That is the business that is being carried on.”
Adding that Rangers were “a collection of assets”, “What if the players were sold to one person and Ibrox to antoher, where is the ‘club’ then?”
I had to look away from court reporter, James Dolman’s Twitter feed at this point. It was like watching an acquaintance being humiliated. Not something you want to see.
Lord Doherty will determine if Newco should pay Green’s costs in due course, but this will be soon, as Jonathan Brown noted, “the rainy day has arrived”.
This next bit is really important:
Soon after court ended, Dave King was out with a rambling statement on the Newco website. If it was designed to play to the galleries, it hit the spot. If it was designed to influence what happens to his club, or how others will regard his input, it was surely an horrendous mistake.
It was a hard day to be chairman of Rangers International FC PLC. The court hearing only happened because the club objected to its contract with Green, so the unedifying episode could easily have been avoided. Despite this, sometimes you have to shut your mouth.
Sure, some Newco fans love a bit of grandstanding, but you know what yesterday’s statement will achieve. If the objective of the statement was to convince other Scottish clubs not to consider disciplinary action against Sir David Murray, or oldco Rangers, for their actions, it was an almighty miscalculation.
Threats seldom work. This one is unlikely to curry favour: “If the history of our Club comes under attack we will deal with it in the strongest manner possible and will hold to account those persons who have acted against their fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and to Scottish football.”
In short:
Don’t threaten clubs you are trying to influence.
Don’t grandstand to your own fans if you are trying to influence other clubs.
Keep a poker face. Keep your mouth shut, even if it means taking grief from your fans for the lack of public reaction.
King’s statement also addressed the sporting advantage issue from what we now know was an unlawfully operated tax scheme. While the EBT scheme saved tens of millions of pounds, and King earlier intimated this did provide a sporting advantage, yesterday he insisted the advantage was financial, that the shareholders were “committed to providing funding to the club” and would have done so, if required.
Here’s the thing, in 2012 another King statement revealed, “I have made a claim of £20m on the basis of non-disclosure by the then chairman, David Murray, of Rangers true financial position as far back as 2000.”
That commitment to further shareholder funding seems predicated on some controversial information. According to King, of course. Controversial enough to launch a £20m claim, but not to inhibit investment.
For the war-chest hunters among you, if you read this article covering King’s 2012 statement, you’ll find a strong clue.
One other quick but important point:
Some media are attempting to portray questions of sporting advantage as Rangers being punished for spending money they could afford, a travesty, as so many other clubs have done likewise.
This must surely be a deliberate attempt to misunderstand the issue and manipulate the debate.
No one suggests Rangers should be punished for spending money they could not afford. The questions are straightforward:
Did Rangers break tax law, break SFA rules and break SPL rules, when contracting football players?
Did they disclose matters openly with authorities (in other words, inadvertently make mistakes), or did they conspire to subvert the rules by hiding incriminating information?
Spending like the Borgias? Time to move on. Conspiracy to subvert the rules? We have a problem.
Don’t be distracted by potential ramifications to these questions, they are irrelevant for now. We should consider no more than did they break all of the above rules, should any the rule breaking be interpreted as an oversight, or does evidence of conspiracy to subvert the rules exist?
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Good Morning,
On 6th November 1887 the decision was taken to form a football club that would make a difference.
Since then, Celtic Football Club and its fans have had their ups and downs, their periods of depression and periods of great joy.
However, no matter what, come rain or shine, the fans of that football club always believed that they had a purpose, could do someone somewhere a good turn and, yes, that winning and losing was not the be all and end all. We were always better than that.
Take a look outside your window, if you dare.
Tonight, 60 of us will sleep out in that at the side of the pitch where our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers, sons, daughters, wives, mothers, grandmothers and even a few great grandmothers stood.
I have said before that on European nights the ghosts and souls of past generations come out of the very ground in and around Celtic Park. I for one, on those nights, feel the presence and the spirit of those past generations, and the duty to explain to kids, and in due course grandkids, about the raison d’etre of this football club.
About joy, about support, about doing the right thing for your fellow man — no matter who he or she maybe, what team they support, the colour of their skin, their religeous or political allegiance or their station in life.
Tomorrow we go to raise money for the needy, the poor, the homeless, the downtrodden and those who our modern society passes by, ignores and doesn’t even see.
The Invisibles as my pal Dermot Calls them.
When we played our first game in May 1888 we were not concerned with leagues or titles or cheats or whoever.
Walfrid and his crew just knew that from then on if there was going to be a show then Glasgow Celtic and their fans would be there and that he and we would raise some money for the very same category of people – The poor, the downtrodden, the starving, the needy and those who were passed by – by the Victorian age,
So, if you have any oul coins or even better notes lost down the back of the couch then please support us by making a donation here:
https://mydonate.bt.com/fundraisers/jamesmcginley1
Here is a wee song that is well known. If you watch the video you will see that despite its title, it was a song that started its life in Paris, a city which wakes up to tragedy, despair and fear this morning.
God help them all.
Please watch — Please listen — Please see — and Please make that difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiWomXklfv8
Hail Hail & Thanks
BRTH ( On the Mooch )
Thoughts and prayers must go to the good people of Paris who have been murdered.
Terrorists are now in every country in Europe due to this madness of opening border crossings, and Merkel,s madness of welcoming them with open arms will surely come home to roost.
IMHO the west have opened the gates to the biggest Trojan Horse ever !!!!!
Morning all
BURGAS HOOPS
I personally think it’s a bit of a leap to say that terrorists are now in every country in Europe due to opening border crossings.
I think we would find that the jihadists are exactly who many of the desperate migrants are trying to escape when the make the perilous journey towards Europe.
I don’t think scapegoating and rapidly drawn cause and effect conclusions of any kind will help us understand and prevent future episodes like last night.
HH
Does anyone else think this Petec geezer is a complete muppet or is it just me?
Thoughts and prayers for the innocents caught up in the horrific events in France last night.
Can’t believe Anne Budge hasn’t issued a statement yet, more so following the king’s ludicrous outburst.
I thought she was a firm believer in integrity, fairness and good behaviour.
Hope she’s not sitting quiet cause it involves the monkeys!
Burgas…,
What a load of drivel,
Opening borders and reducing the divisiveness of nationalism did not cause these problems, neither did extending the hand of charity and humanity in the offer to help refugees.
Geopolitics being played on behalf of corporations and the super rich by successive govts has created this. Destabilising the Middle East was their goal and this is a consequence of trying to control forces they knew could not be controlled.
They opened pandora a box and don’t care because it will help their ultimate goal come to fruition, radicalisation of both side and easily controlled masses.
I think about it, the leaders of all the opposing sides sit in meetings buying and selling destruction.
The Saudi’s and Israelis are allies in Syria, the only people fighting ISIS were the Syrians yet the west/NATO allied with ISIS to take out the legitimate govt of Syria.
Turkey paying ISIS £50M a month for Iraqi and Syrian oil, a member of NATO financially and logistically supporting the terrorists, the US knows everything it’s NATO puppets do and co-ordinated their strategies.
Morning friends from an aptly grey and sombre looking East Kilbride.
skyisalandfill
It’s a well known and publicised fact ISIS have said they would infiltrate the open border policy.
I will wait and see what reaction you have when the same attrocities happen in other European cities.
Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, Iran, Oman etc should be ashamed of themselves, these are the destinations that should be taking in muslim ” refugee’s”.IMHO
Conservative Celt…you also are a muppet.Apologies to all decent posters but i’m sick of these idiots posting racist homophobic nonsense.
I think I’ll give the blog a rest today.
Lot’s of facts getting quoted.
Always a chore.
HH and laters.
Had a chat this morning with a mate of mine, he’s a Greenock Morton supporter. He needed no introduction to the level of corruption in the Scottish game and SMSM. Says he hopes ‘they get the trophies off them.
Canamalar
You know for a fact then they’re all refugee’s ?
Running away from tyranny for a better life in the west ?
Waken up man FFS!!!!
OMG. What we are witnessing in Paris is pure evil. No excuses.
Burgas..,
Do you know for a fact one single jihadi came to Europe pretending to be a refugee or are you basing your information on the claims of an organisation whose policy is to speard fear and lies.
Many of the jihadis travelled from Europe to the Middle East to join their jihad, is it no easier to consider there are enough already converted and resident in Europe ready to follow orders, the London bombings should have provided enough evidence of that surely.
Moving Europe to the far right and creating conflict throughout the world is the simplest way to control and maintain the current power status quo, this is the biggest distraction they could think of the reduce the worlds masses to easily malleable cretins and sadly we are watching normally intelegent people fall right into line.
Their goal is to give you the mindset of a hun, and it looks to be working from where I’m sitting.
You’re calling me a hun LOL
The problem now is we have to fight them, the bigger problem is how do we do that without becoming like them because that means both the jihadis and those who set this up have won.
I immediately apologised for my post re Blair as it was a personal opinion and meant for a text but thankfully it got rid of mr pastry
Paris, what a mess, debates on the blame game should be left for another time, grabbing the moral high ground on a tragic episode not even 24 hrs. Old beggars belief.
Pray for Paris.
I’m saying your starting to think like a hun, completely intransigent and refusing to accept the evidence in front of you, and becoming less objective.
Great news The argyle guest house in Glasgow have agreed to let us book 4 rooms for the homeless at Christmas now to find some more caring hotel owners
Thanks Tony I’m glad someone said it.
Copied from FB as an added extra to BRTH earlier post
TD67 – my thoughts entirely, thank you.
TD,
The victims are and will be mourned, the most important consideration now is how do we respond to this atrocity. Don’t tell me the power brokers are not considering their options right now.
Many many innocent Muslims will now be targeted to heap injustice on the misery and too many idiots like conservative Celt will cheer that on.
Morning all.
Sad day today. May God grant eternal rest to all those who died in Paris last night.
Could we not leave the point scoring on CQN for another day, as a mark of respect?
Having spent a lot of time in Paris, France in general, the events that have taken place there are painful for me to see. I worry about old friends and colleagues there. However, I also know that the French are, contrary to popular belief, very resilient people. I hope that their resilience and solidarity with one another will see them through these dark times.
Maybe the political confrontations on here could be toned down a little out of respect (?)
I still remember our Tunisian waiter telling us it would be a major mistake to get involved in the original gulf war .
Best post ever from TD67
Paris, what a mess, debates on the blame game should be left for another time, grabbing the moral high ground on a tragic episode not even 24 hrs. Old beggars belief. Pray for Paris.
Really sad night and now as the extent becomes more evident
May God give the people of Paris the strength to recover, and Grant Eternal Rest to those who have lost their life’s
David McCarthy far the daily
Rectum
who’s yet sources ya baw.bag
Made up pish again
No mechanism for title stripping
There getting desperate
Games Over if this is the case, from some rag this morning mind, just wondering if the source is Sandy Bryson :-))
Mind you probably just level 5 publication
CELTIC last night waded into the Rangers EBT row – claiming they remain ‘surprised’ the Ibrox club was not found guilty of gaining a sporting advantage by using the tax avoidance scheme.
The Parkhead club issued a statement which stopped short of calling for the five titles won when EBTs were used at Ibrox from 2001-2010 to be wiped from the record books.
But Celtic made clear that they were unhappy with the verdict of the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission into the matter two years ago – and remain so now.
An HMRC appeal victory against Rangers in the Court of Session last week has brought the EBT issue back into focus – and although a Hampden source last night insisted there was no mechanism for the club to be ‘tried’ again, having gone through the courts in 2013, Celtic’s intervention will do nothing to calm a situation already inflamed by Rangers chairman Dave King’s threat to take to court any club trying to have their titles removed.
The Parkhead statement read: “We are aware of last week’s Court of Session ruling, which we note is subject to potential appeal.
“Celtic’s position on this issue is consistent – that this remains a matter for the courts of law and also the Scottish football authorities whose rules are intended to uphold sporting integrity.
“In 2013, we expressed surprise – shared by many observers and supporters of the game – over the findings of the SPL Commission that no competitive or sporting advantage had resulted. That remains our view.”
But according to a source close to the situation at Hampden, Rangers cannot be stripped of the titles they won during the EBT years – because they’ve already been found guilty of failing to disclose side letters issued to players who used the tax avoidance scheme and were fined £250,000 by the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission in December 2013.
It has been claimed that there is no mechanism to allow a ‘retrial’ in the wake of last week’s victory for HMRC in relation to the Employment Benefit Trust scheme operated by Sir David Murray between 2001 and 2010 – a period in which five titles were won by the Ibrox club.
Last week’s decision, which could yet be the subject of an appeal by liquidators BDO before December 2 and could see the saga drag on for months or years, sparked an outcry on social media for Rangers to be stripped of those championships – and a furious response from new current Ibrox regime, which claims it is ready to go to war to defend its history.
But the source told Record Sport: “There is no need for Rangers to take such a stance and there is no point in people calling for titles to be stripped because it can’t happen.
“There is no legal vehicle for it to happen. They’ve already been found guilty – it’s double jeopardy, if you like. They can’t be re-tried for something they’ve been found guilty of.
“So many people on both sides of this argument are speaking without knowing the facts or the legalities.
“And on top of that, it is my understanding that there is little appetite from other clubs to strip Rangers of their titles, even if they are not coming out and saying it.”
The independent Nimmo Smith Commission, appointed by the SPL at the time, found that Rangers gained ‘no competitive advantage’ by failing to disclose the side-letters. It stated: “Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage from the contraventions of the SPL rules in failing to make proper disclosure of the side-letter arrangements, nor did the non-disclosure have the effect that any of the registered players were ineligible to play, and for this and other reasons no sporting sanction or penalty should be imposed on Rangers.
“Although the payments in this case were not themselves irregular and were not in breach of SPL or SFA rules, the scale and extent of the proven contraventions of the disclosure rules require a substantial penalty to be imposed.
“In all the circumstances the commission has imposed a fine of £250,000 on Oldco.”
The SPL, now the SPFL, claim that Rangers Newco agreed to take on all football debts, including that fine but the Ibrox club have denied that and have taken the case to arbritation. The matter is expected to be resolved in a number of weeks but if Rangers lose, it will cost the club £400,000 when legal fees have been added.
But irrespective of the outcome, it is the view in Hampden’s corridors of power that no titles can be or will be a
“The Record”……………….
really!
*shakes heid wearily*
Oh and I see Glibby’s threat was only to take any Club to court if they try to remove titles
So for not declaring full player contracts, we have to ignore the penalty of a 3 – 0 defeat in every game and resultant effect of such
Only in our Masonic riddled Scotland should cheating be swept under the carpet
Cowiebhoy,
The LNS inquiry was not a legal case so there is no such rules on double jeopardy, so it looks like anther squirrel has been let loose.
Short and concise statement = waded in.
From today’s DR,seems the wriggling at the SFA is getting worse.
‘But according to a source close to the situation at Hampden, Rangers cannot be stripped of the titles they won during the EBT years – because they’ve already been found guilty of failing to disclose side letters issued to players who used the tax avoidance scheme and were fined £250,000 by the Lord Nimmo Smith Commission in December 2013.
It has been claimed that there is no mechanism to allow a ‘retrial’ in the wake of last week’s victory for HMRC in relation to the Employment Benefit Trust scheme operated by Sir David Murray between 2001 and 2010 – a period in which five titles were won by the Ibrox club.’
and
‘But the source told Record Sport: “There is no need for Rangers to take such a stance and there is no point in people calling for titles to be stripped because it can’t happen.
“There is no legal vehicle for it to happen. They’ve already been found guilty – it’s double jeopardy, if you like. They can’t be re-tried for something they’ve been found guilty of.
“So many people on both sides of this argument are speaking without knowing the facts or the legalities.
“And on top of that, it is my understanding that there is little appetite from other clubs to strip Rangers of their titles, even if they are not coming out and saying it.”
~~~~~~~~~~*++*~~~~~~~~~~~~
The last bit being a continuation of the Bryson theory-if cheating,lying,theft,etc,is not immediately spotted,it cannot be acted upon. Ever.
Halfwits.
Speaking of halfwits,I see MrPastry has flounced.